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View Full Version : We dont need Beltran!


habibharu
06-12-2004, 01:27 PM
it would be stupid for us to give up reed and some other minor leaguers for beltran. i realize that we need a CF, but when maggs comes back, an OF of lee, harris, and maggs is pretty damn good. and also crede is gonna pick it up in the second half, so we dont need any offense. KW should trade for ben sheets right now. if otis is right, the brewers offered us sheets for cotts and reed. I would do that trade in a heartbeat. IMO, sheets is on the verge of becoming something very special

HomerCoach
06-12-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
i realize that we need a CF, but when maggs comes back, an OF of lee, harris, and maggs is pretty damn good.

Lee, Beltran and Maggs would be the best in baseball.

habibharu
06-12-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by HomerCoach
Lee, Beltran and Maggs would be the best in baseball. yeah but i would rather have sheets than beltran.

Mickster
06-12-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
yeah but i would rather have sheets than beltran.

Who said we can't have both??? We will trade for a SP, no doubt. Beltran is just a bonus...

bartmanisgod
06-12-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
it would be stupid for us to give up reed and some other minor leaguers for beltran. i realize that we need a CF, but when maggs comes back, an OF of lee, harris, and maggs is pretty damn good. and also crede is gonna pick it up in the second half, so we dont need any offense. KW should trade for ben sheets right now. if otis is right, the brewers offered us sheets for cotts and reed. I would do that trade in a heartbeat. IMO, sheets is on the verge of becoming something very special

While I agree with you on sheets adding a pitcher only guarentees we win the division. However, if the sox were to add five tool player like Beltran and also added a solid pitcher like sheets or garcia this team would have a legitimate shot at a World Series.

Harris 2b Buerhle
Uribe 3b Loazia
Maggs Rf Garcia
Frank DH Schoney
Beltran CF Garland
Lee LF
Konerko 1b
Valentin ss
Olivo C

As much as I love Ben Sheets...the Brewers are technically still in the hunt. I would much rather have Garcia and Beltran here than Sheets. With the lineup and staff above chances are we have the most complete team in all of baseball and could finally bring joy to the southside

habibharu
06-12-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
Who said we can't have both??? i dont think that we have the prospects to get that done. if we did both deals, we would probably lose reed, borchard, cotts, diaz, and maybe even honel. i wouldnt wanna do that

Bucktown
06-12-2004, 01:37 PM
Where does Harris go? Do we sit our the player with our highest BA? Do we sit Uribe (2nd highest)? Do we sit Valentin and his 11 HRs?

I am of the mind that we don't need Beltran. I personally don't care if we add anyone. I would take this team to the playoffs. You only use three starters in the playoffs.

And don't tell me we have to get to the playoffs first. That will be a cakewalk.

Mickster
06-12-2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
And don't tell me we have to get to the playoffs first. That will be a cakewalk.

Can you say JINX??? :(:

HomerCoach
06-12-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Where does Harris go? Do we sit our the player with our highest BA? Do we sit Uribe (2nd highest)? Do we sit Valentin and his 11 HRs?


Do we sit .210 Crede? YES!

3B Uribe
SS Valentin
2B Harris

habibharu
06-12-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by HomerCoach
Do we sit .210 Crede? YES!

3B Uribe
SS Valentin
2B Harris no you dont sit crede. he hit over .300 last year in the second half. he is gonna do it again this year.

mmmmmbeeer
06-12-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
it would be stupid for us to give up reed and some other minor leaguers for beltran. i realize that we need a CF, but when maggs comes back, an OF of lee, harris, and maggs is pretty damn good. and also crede is gonna pick it up in the second half, so we dont need any offense. KW should trade for ben sheets right now. if otis is right, the brewers offered us sheets for cotts and reed. I would do that trade in a heartbeat. IMO, sheets is on the verge of becoming something very special

Our current roster with the addition of Sheets does not win a playoff series.

Our current roster with the addition of Beltran, Sheets/Garcia/?, and a legitimate closer would be a team deserving of world series consideration.

When you have a chance to get to the series, ya gotta take it. I couldn't care less if the Sox win the ALC, that should have been a given for the last 3 seasons. The potential in this team with some tweeking goes far beyond the aim of the ALC championship.

Mickster
06-12-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
no you dont sit crede. he hit over .300 last year in the second half. he is gonna do it again this year.

What he did 2nd half last year not withstanding... he looks absolutely pathetic at the plate THIS year.

People were screaming bloody murder with Rowand earlier in the year. Crede has been worse offensively. Grab some bench!

oldcomiskey
06-12-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Where does Harris go? Do we sit our the player with our highest BA? Do we sit Uribe (2nd highest)? Do we sit Valentin and his 11 HRs?

I am of the mind that we don't need Beltran. I personally don't care if we add anyone. I would take this team to the playoffs. You only use three starters in the playoffs.

And don't tell me we have to get to the playoffs first. That will be a cakewalk.

no you sit Crede and let Uribe play third

mdep524
06-12-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
it would be stupid for us to give up reed and some other minor leaguers for beltran. i realize that we need a CF, but when maggs comes back, an OF of lee, harris, and maggs is pretty damn good. and also crede is gonna pick it up in the second half, so we dont need any offense. KW should trade for ben sheets right now. if otis is right, the brewers offered us sheets for cotts and reed. I would do that trade in a heartbeat. IMO, sheets is on the verge of becoming something very special

See, I don't our think starting pitching is as big of a hole as everybody says it is. If you remember last year, it was our OFFENSE that kept us out of the playoofs- several 1-0 losses (two to the Tigers, one to the Padres who were both TERRIBLE teams last year), a high pressure three game meltdown in Minnesota, a massive two month lack of any hitting (April - May). The starting pithcing was rock solid last year. Also, in the 2000 playoffs, our offense just plain did not show up at all, even though our pitchers- who weren't as good as the ones we have this year- pitched their hearts out.

I know, there are differences between the 2000, 2003 and 2004 teams. But the catalysts are the same- Lee, Konerko, Maggs, Thomas. I think adding Beltran is a very solid hedge against an ill-timed offense meltdown. He'd give this team a whole new dimension offensively.

I do agree we need another starter as well- Sheets or Garcia if I and my way. And getting a releiver- Guardado?- would be just as important too. But I wouldn't overlook Beltran.

mmmmmbeeer
06-12-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
no you dont sit crede. he hit over .300 last year in the second half. he is gonna do it again this year.

When going for a championship you can't afford to wait on players who have had limited success to suddenly bust out of a slump. You've got to put the best possible team on the field at all times, and Crede is sure as hell not a good enough reason to not upgrade in CF. Sit him until Uribe starts hitting .210, then he can have 3B back.

OEO Magglio
06-12-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
And don't tell me we have to get to the playoffs first. That will be a cakewalk.
Wow that's probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Maybe the sox should get back into first place before it's a cakewalk to make it to the playoffs. Beltran would be great but a starter is much more important at this point. I'd love to get ben sheets but I highly doubt that will happen. If the sox add garcia the starting pitching is obviously set. If crede ever picks it up the offense would be set also because ozzie would be able to leave willie in centerfield. If crede doesn't pick it up a centerfielder might be something to look at but I wouldn't consider it a huge whole. Steve Finley is also a choice in centerfield, he'd cost less then beltran and would be a very nice pickup. Kenny's two biggest goals right now should be to pickup a quality starting pitcher and to pick up another reliever, then if crede continues to struggle he can look to pick up a centerfielder.

HomerCoach
06-12-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
no you dont sit crede. he hit over .300 last year in the second half. he is gonna do it again this year.


Okay, Valentin hit .229 after the break last year, sit him. Beltran is a good..great addition and an even bigger subtraction from any other AL team.

NonetheLoaiza
06-12-2004, 02:23 PM
letting uribe play third would not be a good idea. alex rodriguez can make the switch from SS to 3B only because he is a hell of an athlete. Putting Uribe at third, you are sacrificing errors for average. Last time I checked, we are pretty high up in the majors in BA. Crede is a 2nd half player. He'll pick it up. Right now, we need his defense, especially with our recent woes. I don't want to see our pitching and offense tear it up, only to see errors cost us games.

oldcomiskey
06-12-2004, 02:28 PM
you mean like its been the last few years--the Sox are not now nor will they they ever be a great defensive team--they are scoring enough runs now to where the errors dont hurt so much--the SP has been outstanding. Crede, like Borchard has shown me nothing, so therefore he sits til he gets his tuff together--and are you really that comfortable with Rowand in CF

habibharu
06-12-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
you mean like its been the last few years--the Sox are not now nor will they they ever be a great defensive team--they are scoring enough runs now to where the errors dont hurt so much--the SP has been outstanding. Crede, like Borchard has shown me nothing, so therefore he sits til he gets his tuff together--and are you really that comfortable with Rowand in CF rowand is not gonna play CF! when maggs comes back, he will play right, and harris will play center like he is now. and i dont mind playing rowand/gload/perez in right until maggs comes back

greasywheels121
06-13-2004, 01:58 PM
Do we really need Beltran?

AVG--.285 (1st in MLB)
SLG--.478 (1st in MLB)
OBP--.356 (2nd in MLB)
OPS--.834 (1st in MLB)
H--576 (6th in MLB)
BB--215 (11th in MLB)
SO--356 (21st in MLB)
HR--86 (1st in MLB)
R--328 (1st in MLB)
RBI--312 (2nd in MLB)

Insane.

MisterB
06-13-2004, 02:14 PM
Do we really need Beltran?

AVG--.285 (1st in MLB)
SLG--.478 (1st in MLB)
OBP--.356 (2nd in MLB)
OPS--.834 (1st in MLB)
H--576 (6th in MLB)
BB--215 (11th in MLB)
SO--356 (21st in MLB)
HR--86 (1st in MLB)
R--328 (1st in MLB)
RBI--312 (2nd in MLB)

Insane.
Umm...what the hell are those numbers supposed to mean?

greasywheels121
06-13-2004, 02:30 PM
Umm...what the hell are those numbers supposed to mean?
Those are the White Sox offensive numbers compared to the rest of MLB.

MisterB
06-13-2004, 02:36 PM
Those are the White Sox offensive numbers compared to the rest of MLB.
Ah. Sorry about that.

mdep524
06-13-2004, 02:51 PM
Do we really need Beltran?

AVG--.285 (1st in MLB)
SLG--.478 (1st in MLB)
OBP--.356 (2nd in MLB)
OPS--.834 (1st in MLB)
H--576 (6th in MLB)
BB--215 (11th in MLB)
SO--356 (21st in MLB)
HR--86 (1st in MLB)
R--328 (1st in MLB)
RBI--312 (2nd in MLB)

Insane.
That is too simplisitc to just say the Sox lead the league in homeruns/ batting average, etc., thus they do not need to improve their offense. If you score 15 runs in one game and zero the next, you still average an incredible 7.5 runs per game. The Sox did that in May vs. Baltimore. Beltran would make the offense more consistent and more VERSATILE (i.e. not just home runs) and that would lead to more wins.

Philo-Sox-er
06-13-2004, 03:58 PM
Beltran got hurt today:




Carlos Beltran left today's game after five innings with an undisclosed injury.
Brandon Berger replaced him, pushing Desi Relaford from left to center. Jun. 13 - 3:48 pm et

idseer
06-13-2004, 04:13 PM
... Crede, like Borchard has shown me nothing, so therefore he sits til he gets his tuff together--and are you really that comfortable with Rowand in CF
the problem with this is ... how does he get his stuff together while he's sitting on the bench?

i agree with those who feel he must play his way out of this funk. we can apparently afford the loss of his offense for now but need his D. if he never gets it back then you move him out. sitting people doesn't do a thing for them.

Philo-Sox-er
06-13-2004, 04:32 PM
Beltran's injury report/staus:


Carlos Beltran is day-to-day with a bruised left knee.
Beltran was hurt while crashing into the center field wall in the fifth inning of today's game. Jun. 13 - 4:31 pm et

SoxEd
06-13-2004, 05:13 PM
I thought that we had already admitted that we are NEVER getting Beltran over to the Sox?

His agent is Scott Boras.

JR no-likey Scotty Boras.

Therefore, no Beltran in Silver and Black.

Or have I been misinformed?

oldcomiskey
06-13-2004, 07:04 PM
the problem with this is ... how does he get his stuff together while he's sitting on the bench?

i agree with those who feel he must play his way out of this funk. we can apparently afford the loss of his offense for now but need his D. if he never gets it back then you move him out. sitting people doesn't do a thing for them.
yes it does, it shows the player that if he dont get to hitting, then he may find his ass on the bench permanently--but not like were gonna get beltran--as it was mentioned earlier Boras is his agent