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View Full Version : Bruce Levine: Sox Trade for Contreras a No-Go


Brian26
06-11-2004, 08:55 PM
Bruce Levine on MJH this afternoon said that the Sox, before Kevin Brown's injury was announced yesterday, had a deal in place that would have brought Jose Contreras here as the new Sox closer or 5th starter. The deal is off since Brown's injury.

Take it for what it's worth.

Also of interest, Levine is very good friends with Carlos Beltran. Levine didn't deny the Harold Reynolds rumor that Beltran could be here in Chicago very soon, maybe within the week.

Jerry_Manuel
06-11-2004, 09:00 PM
Bad, I couldn't even fathom Contreras on the Sox.

I'd love for the Beltran talk to be true though.

CanOfCorn
06-11-2004, 09:03 PM
Phew. Any word on who they would've given up?

TaylorStSox
06-11-2004, 09:10 PM
I find it really hard to believe that anyone would take on that contract based on his performance.

samram
06-11-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Also of interest, Levine is very good friends with Carlos Beltran. Levine didn't deny the Harold Reynolds rumor that Beltran could be here in Chicago very soon, maybe within the week.

First, Contreras= Felix Diaz, except Diaz has more potential

Second, what is the Beltran rumor? When did Harold Reynolds talk about this?

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by samram
First, Contreras= Felix Diaz, except Diaz has more potential

Second, what is the Beltran rumor? When did Harold Reynolds talk about this? Baseball tonight yesterday I believe. The thing about Contreras is that I believe the Yankees were willing to take on the majority of his salary, which would have been nice.

Win1ForMe
06-11-2004, 09:25 PM
I don't really think Contreras is that bad. He was 6-1 with a 2.34 ERA (57.2 IP, 37 H, 57 K's) last year as a starter. The guy clearly has the talent and probably needs a change of scenery, as well as some work on his mechanics.

If the Yanks pick up his salary, it's a low risk-high reward proposition, especially if you can bring out last year's Contreras. Don't really see a problem with that move.

mantis1212
06-11-2004, 09:55 PM
Isn't Contreras guaranteed like $32MM still?? The Yankees are freakin' nuts- on such a different level financially than everybody else, its unbelievable.

This is very peculiar, who would we have given up?

duke of dorwood
06-11-2004, 11:31 PM
$32M? A poor man on the Evil Empire

cbrownson13
06-12-2004, 12:12 AM
Also of interest, Levine is very good friends with Carlos Beltran. Levine didn't deny the Harold Reynolds rumor that Beltran could be here in Chicago very soon, maybe within the week. [/B][/QUOTE]


Does anyone else see the sense in this? I know Carlos Beltran is an unbelievable baseball player, but is that really our main need? Does anyone else think that this could be a temporary thing and then maybe turn around and trade him for some pitching? (starter, closer) If we can't sign Maggs, what makes us think we can sign Beltran?

Jjav829
06-12-2004, 12:20 AM
This doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. I guess the thinking would be that Contreras needs to get out of New York and he can still be an effective pitcher. But if we're gonna trade for a starter, make it someone who is proven. Diaz and Munoz are just as proven as Contreras and a lot cheaper. The Yankees must have been willing to pick up a significant amount of that contract.

I would venture to guess that the Yankees would be doing this trade to try to acquire prospects to go after Garcia. Not that they will get anything great, but anything they can acquire for Contreras could help in their pursuit of Garcia.

SoxFan76
06-12-2004, 12:21 AM
I think Contreras would prosper here. He would have a Latin manager, latin teamattes, and Don Cooper seems to do wonders for our starting pitchers. Maybe it could work out alright.

beckett21
06-12-2004, 12:24 AM
What Bruce said post-game is that Contreras would probably be converted into the Sox closer. He would not be coming in to fill the 5th starter role, at least that's what it sounded like to me.

SEALgep
06-12-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
What Bruce said post-game is that Contreras would probably be converted into the Sox closer. He would not be coming in to fill the 5th starter role, at least that's what it sounded like to me. That could have been awesome.

Jjav829
06-12-2004, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
What Bruce said post-game is that Contreras would probably be converted into the Sox closer. He would not be coming in to fill the 5th starter role, at least that's what it sounded like to me.

Well the flashes of success that Contreras has shown have come when he was a starter. He was awful out of the pen and never seemed to adjust to being a reliever. It would have been interesting to say the least. He's got good stuff so who knows. It'll be interesting to see if the trade does go down once Brown and Moose are healthy.

beckett21
06-12-2004, 12:39 AM
Contreras is really an intriguing talent. Seems like his problems are all mental, and having to do with family problems back home in Cuba. Apparently he has had trouble with his focus. Doesn't seem to be at all physical.

Of course, sometimes the mental aspect of the game may be the hardest to fix. But depending on what the Sox cost would have been, who knows. I can't say that I would have a lot of confidence at this moment, but I couldn't have any less in Koch so in my mind it couldn't be any worse. Assuming they had him close, that is. And like Jjav said, he has shown flashes of brilliance/dominance as a starter. Tremendously inconsistent, but no doubt the talent is there.

Who knows, change of scenery out of the NY spotlight, maybe he puts it together. High-risk, high-reward gamble that would be a signature KW move. Might be worth a flyer.

OEO Magglio
06-12-2004, 12:43 AM
Makes me wonder if Koch was part of the deal. If so I would have loved a deal like that. I would love to take a gamble on Contreras as long as the yanks ate most of his salary. He's got a dynamite arm and a change of scenery might do him some good.

Soxfest
06-12-2004, 12:50 AM
For the money left on his deal , I don't like it at all.

Mohoney
06-12-2004, 01:34 AM
If we get Beltran:

1 Harris 2B
2 Uribe 3B
3 Ordonez (when healthy) RF
4 Thomas DH
5 Beltran CF
6 Lee LF
7 Konerko 1B
8 Valentin SS
9 Olivo/Alomar, Jr. C

I would assume that they would want Crede in any package involving Beltran, allowing them to also move Randa. We would probably have to give up Crede, Reed, and 2 pitching prospects to land Beltran.

I say DO IT KENNY!

SEALgep
06-12-2004, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Mohoney
If we get Beltran:

1 Harris 2B
2 Uribe 3B
3 Ordonez (when healthy) RF
4 Thomas DH
5 Beltran CF
6 Lee LF
7 Konerko 1B
8 Valentin SS
9 Olivo/Alomar, Jr. C

I would assume that they would want Crede in any package involving Beltran, allowing them to also move Randa. We would probably have to give up Crede, Reed, and 2 pitching prospects to land Beltran.

I say DO IT KENNY! Crede, Reed, and 2 pitching prospects for a rent a player? Beltran is a hell of player, but I think you are overestimating his worth for a half season.

Mohoney
06-12-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Crede, Reed, and 2 pitching prospects for a rent a player? Beltran is a hell of player, but I think you are overestimating his worth for a half season.

I know it's VERY pricey, but if another AL team pays it, our chances for this year are screwed.

I'm not worried about '05, 06, or 07, because we're losing Maggs anyway if we don't go on a mad postseason run and collect revenue.

I'll trade futility in '05, '06, '07, '08, etc... for a World Series NOW!

We're going on 87 years now...

batmanZoSo
06-12-2004, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Bruce Levine on MJH this afternoon said that the Sox, before Kevin Brown's injury was announced yesterday, had a deal in place that would have brought Jose Contreras here as the new Sox closer or 5th starter. The deal is off since Brown's injury.

Take it for what it's worth.

Also of interest, Levine is very good friends with Carlos Beltran. Levine didn't deny the Harold Reynolds rumor that Beltran could be here in Chicago very soon, maybe within the week.

Contreras is pretty horrible as far as I know. Unless I'm totally wrong, someone correct me, but I'm glad that trade didn't go through. Either way that's kind of a chicken-#### move..we need an ace or close to it.

This Beltran talk scares me. If he trades away Reed and others without re-signing him that'll be the end of the Sox. And for how great Beltran is, there's no way in hell his addition is bringing us a World Series. Now if we get him and a starter or him and a closer, then we'd really be in business for this season.

SEALgep
06-12-2004, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Contreras is pretty horrible as far as I know. Unless I'm totally wrong, someone correct me, but I'm glad that trade didn't go through. Either way that's kind of a chicken-#### move..we need an ace or close to it.

This Beltran talk scares me. If he trades away Reed and others without re-signing him that'll be the end of the Sox. And for how great Beltran is, there's no way in hell his addition is bringing us a World Series. Now if we get him and a starter or him and a closer, then we'd really be in business for this season. You really think that would be the extent of KW's moves. You think he would get Beltran and then say, well that's all we can do. If we acquired Beltran, it would be additional to another starter at least.

Mohoney
06-12-2004, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Contreras is pretty horrible as far as I know. Unless I'm totally wrong, someone correct me, but I'm glad that trade didn't go through. Either way that's kind of a chicken-#### move..we need an ace or close to it.

This Beltran talk scares me. If he trades away Reed and others without re-signing him that'll be the end of the Sox. And for how great Beltran is, there's no way in hell his addition is bringing us a World Series. Now if we get him and a starter or him and a closer, then we'd really be in business for this season.

Batman, that's the whole point. Beltran is not the only move. We still get a starter after we get Beltran.

We basically mortgage the farm for a GUARANTEED Division title and go into the ALDS with, BY FAR, the most talented Sox team ever assembled.

If we could win a World Series THIS YEAR, I would be more than willing to deal with the years of futility ahead. I would GLADLY trade another 100 years of mediocrity from 2005-2105 for a winner this year.

batmanZoSo
06-12-2004, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
You really think that would be the extent of KW's moves. You think he would get Beltran and then say, well that's all we can do. If we acquired Beltran, it would be additional to another starter at least.

When did it become entirely KW's call? Just because these guys might walk after this year doesn't mean we don't have to pay them this year. If we got both needs, I'd probably have an "accident." It would be exciting, no doubt. I was thrilled by the moves he made last year, but those weren't a fraction of the magnitude we're talking now.

But this is gonna require such a huge price in prospects..there's a point where you draw the line, even if we haven't won in 85 years. And I want a World Series as much if not more than anybody. You still might not win it all and end up flat broke.

Originally posted by Mohoney


Batman, that's the whole point. Beltran is not the only move. We still get a starter after we get Beltran.

We basically mortgage the farm for a GUARANTEED Division title and go into the ALDS with, BY FAR, the most talented Sox team ever assembled.

If we could win a World Series THIS YEAR, I would be more than willing to deal with the years of futility ahead. I would GLADLY trade another 100 years of mediocrity from 2005-2105 for a winner this year.

The Joe Jackson era Sox were just stacked with Hall of Famers, I have to disagree with you on that one.

In the end, if they give up everybody we have for Beltran, Garcia, and Guardado or whoever...I'll crap my pants, ride it out and hope for the best like everybody else.

gosox41
06-12-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Bruce Levine on MJH this afternoon said that the Sox, before Kevin Brown's injury was announced yesterday, had a deal in place that would have brought Jose Contreras here as the new Sox closer or 5th starter. The deal is off since Brown's injury.

Take it for what it's worth.

Also of interest, Levine is very good friends with Carlos Beltran. Levine didn't deny the Harold Reynolds rumor that Beltran could be here in Chicago very soon, maybe within the week.

Does Levine ever have anything usefeul to add. And how is he good friends with Beltran? I bet maybe he's interviewed him once or twince. Does the middle aged Jewish man making a nice living for himself really have a lot in commone with a 26 year old Latino ball player making millions of $$$. Good friends? And even if they were good friends, how would Beltran necessarily know for sure he's going to be traded specifically t the Sox and not someone else. Do you think Baird tells Beltran that he's going ot be traded to the Sox this week, only to see him traded to the Yankees or somewhere else in two?

I'm not denying the Sox have pursued Beltran, but I don't believe Carlos knows for sure where and when he's going to get traded.


Bob

Brian26
06-12-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Mohoney
I would GLADLY trade another 100 years of mediocrity from 2005-2105 for a winner this year.

That's easy to say now. But how would you be feeling after our 82nd straight last place finish in the year 2087? :smile:

Dadawg_77
06-12-2004, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Soxfest
For the money left on his deal , I don't like it at all.

I wouldn't assume the Sox wouldn't get some salary relief if that trade happen.

ND_Sox_Fan
06-12-2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
But this is gonna require such a huge price in prospects..there's a point where you draw the line, even if we haven't won in 85 years. And I want a World Series as much if not more than anybody. You still might not win it all and end up flat broke.

The last time I checked the Yankees don't have any prospects either. If we win this year, or even win a playoff series, there is no way in a hot place that JR doesn't spend a little more and we actually keep some decent guys.

It is not going to be a good year now and then a terrible famine that you guys are predicting for the future.

mdep524
06-12-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Contreras is really an intriguing talent. Seems like his problems are all mental, and having to do with family problems back home in Cuba. Apparently he has had trouble with his focus. Doesn't seem to be at all physical.

Of course, sometimes the mental aspect of the game may be the hardest to fix. But depending on what the Sox cost would have been, who knows. I can't say that I would have a lot of confidence at this moment, but I couldn't have any less in Koch so in my mind it couldn't be any worse. Assuming they had him close, that is. And like Jjav said, he has shown flashes of brilliance/dominance as a starter. Tremendously inconsistent, but no doubt the talent is there.

Who knows, change of scenery out of the NY spotlight, maybe he puts it together. High-risk, high-reward gamble that would be a signature KW move. Might be worth a flyer.

I think beckett put it best- Contreras is an "intriguing" talent. That sums up what I think. I'm not sold on him, and I cringed when I first saw this thread, but I could see him flourishing as a closer. Assuming the Yankees pay for nearly all of his salary(which isn't far fetched), this might not be too bad. One thing I DO know is that I'm very glad and excited that KW is leaving no stone unturned.

As for Beltran, I have to admit the Beltran trade talk REALLY excites me. :D: I really love this guy. Some people are saying it'd be a waste to have him in this line up, but I disagree. He brings things to the table that the Sox lack- speed, left handed bat, great defense. The exact elements that might have saved the Sox from their awful Coprseball-ish effort last night.

34 Inch Stick
06-12-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
[ Does the middle aged Jewish man making a nice living for himself really have a lot in commone with a 26 year old Latino ball player making millions of $$$. Good friends? [/B]

You have never heard of Chico and the Man?