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Dadawg_77
06-11-2004, 12:26 AM
He just said he expects Beltran to end up in Chicago. Now why he didn't say Sox or Cubs, he meant the Sox with the divisional ref. So now we know Beltran won't end up here. Oh well.

FarWestChicago
06-11-2004, 12:28 AM
:boston

I've taught Harold everything he knows.

Bruck35
06-11-2004, 12:35 AM
I saw the same "silver spotlight", but I'm pretty sure he did mention the Sox directly. He also said they should have enough money to sign him long term.

That would surely lead to an interesting debate...

Sign Maggs or Beltran?



How about both?

StillMissOzzie
06-11-2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Bruck35

That would surely lead to an interesting debate...

Sign Maggs or Beltran?

How about both?

Again we have the age-old question - how do you post something that could be in teal or deep pink?

SMO
:D:

nitetrain8601
06-11-2004, 12:48 AM
Didn't see that. That would be great if we did get him, though I would rather have pitching. Who would we give up for him though?

batmanZoSo
06-11-2004, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by Bruck35
I saw the same "silver spotlight", but I'm pretty sure he did mention the Sox directly. He also said they should have enough money to sign him long term.

That would surely lead to an interesting debate...

Sign Maggs or Beltran?



How about both?

Waste of money. Doesn't make us much better.

Freddy Garcia type and a closer is what we need.

Right now that makes us 5 or 6 games up in first place.

dougs78
06-11-2004, 01:36 AM
I still stand by my prediction. The reason Kenny is saying Borchard and Reed are untouchable in a deal for a pitcher (read: Garcia) is that he plans on unloading one of them in a deal for a big hitter (read: Beltran) later in the summer. It could severely deplete our minor league talent, but it would be well worth it for a chance at it this year.

And to Batman, I challenge your assertion that Beltran would not make us much better. Are you honestly saying that switching from Rowand to Beltran would not make the team "much better?" If so, then I don't think you appreciate the difference between their games...its immense.

Harris
Uribe
Thomas
Ordonez
Beltran
Lee
Konerko
Crede
Olivo

Thats so much better than what we are running out there right now, its not even funny. Combine that with:

Buehrle
Loaiza
Garcia
Garland
Schoenweiss


Now we are finally talking about a team that can do some damage. I'm not saying it will all happen, I'm just saying that is what the current plan is.

nitetrain8601
06-11-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by dougs78
I still stand by my prediction. The reason Kenny is saying Borchard and Reed are untouchable in a deal for a pitcher (read: Garcia) is that he plans on unloading one of them in a deal for a big hitter (read: Beltran) later in the summer. It could severely deplete our minor league talent, but it would be well worth it for a chance at it this year.

And to Batman, I challenge your assertion that Beltran would not make us much better. Are you honestly saying that switching from Rowand to Beltran would not make the team "much better?" If so, then I don't think you appreciate the difference between their games...its immense.

Harris
Uribe
Thomas
Ordonez
Beltran
Lee
Konerko
Crede
Olivo

Thats so much better than what we are running out there right now, its not even funny. Combine that with:

Buehrle
Loaiza
Garcia
Garland
Schoenweiss


Now we are finally talking about a team that can do some damage. I'm not saying it will all happen, I'm just saying that is what the current plan is.

That my friends, is a World Series calibur team.

jeremyb1
06-11-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Waste of money. Doesn't make us much better.

Freddy Garcia type and a closer is what we need.

Right now that makes us 5 or 6 games up in first place.

Are you joking?! The fifth starter spot has only come up 8 times this season and we've lost seven of them by scores of 5-4, 3-0, 10-7, 10-6, 7-2, 9-1, 5-1. I'm going to go out on a limb and say we lose the games in which we scored 0, 1, and 2 runs meaning that at most a different fifth starter adds three wins and most likely even fewer.

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by nitetrain8601
That my friends, is a World Series calibur team. Which is what KW is all about. Thankfully.

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by Bruck35
I saw the same "silver spotlight", but I'm pretty sure he did mention the Sox directly. He also said they should have enough money to sign him long term.

That would surely lead to an interesting debate...

Sign Maggs or Beltran?



How about both? I don't think it would be as close of a debate as you think.

batmanZoSo
06-11-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by dougs78
I still stand by my prediction. The reason Kenny is saying Borchard and Reed are untouchable in a deal for a pitcher (read: Garcia) is that he plans on unloading one of them in a deal for a big hitter (read: Beltran) later in the summer. It could severely deplete our minor league talent, but it would be well worth it for a chance at it this year.

And to Batman, I challenge your assertion that Beltran would not make us much better. Are you honestly saying that switching from Rowand to Beltran would not make the team "much better?" If so, then I don't think you appreciate the difference between their games...its immense.

Harris
Uribe
Thomas
Ordonez
Beltran
Lee
Konerko
Crede
Olivo

Thats so much better than what we are running out there right now, its not even funny. Combine that with:

Buehrle
Loaiza
Garcia
Garland
Schoenweiss


Now we are finally talking about a team that can do some damage. I'm not saying it will all happen, I'm just saying that is what the current plan is.

Wait, since when are we in the market for Garcia AND Beltran?

We're talking about one position player here. He does not make us a WS contender. Garcia and a Closer, however, do.

Beltran is not a good fit here AT ALL if Magglio's still around. And I don't want this to become a Maggs vs. Beltran thing. We're either gonna have Maggs or neither. And I totally see us re-signing Maggs, so in that scenario...

That's way too much money devoted to another hitter in Beltran. He brings great power for a center fielder, but the other things he brings--speed, defense--can be found in a 2-5 million dollar player. And that's all we need. We don't need a superstar center fielder. We need several positions on this team--Starter, Closer, Center Fielder, and maybe even more bullpen help.

If we add Beltran, that's all we're getting. That's stupid. You can't slug your way to a championship with no closer and only two dependable starters. Garland and Schoeneweis are good over a whole year but both can get rocked on any given day. We need three to go all the way. Right now we only have two.

I'm thinking in the whole scope of things here. We can see we need Maggs in this lineup and he's probably gonna be cheaper than Beltran. If we do end up losing Maggs, I want the Starter, Closer, and Center fielder addressed and it could be done for not much more than Maggs's 14 million or Beltrans' 16 million. To me, only two things make sense: either re-sign Maggs, or let him go and replace him with middle tier free agents to plug the holes in this team.

batmanZoSo
06-11-2004, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Are you joking?! The fifth starter spot has only come up 8 times this season and we've lost seven of them by scores of 5-4, 3-0, 10-7, 10-6, 7-2, 9-1, 5-1. I'm going to go out on a limb and say we lose the games in which we scored 0, 1, and 2 runs meaning that at most a different fifth starter adds three wins and most likely even fewer.

Are YOU joking? That's awfully glib on your part.

First of all, we might lose the division by one to three games and you can trace that right back to not having a Major League worthy 5th starter.

Second, a guy like Garcia can win games where we only score one run. Everybody should know that.

Third, the offense was clearly pressing on Danny Wright games, thinking that they have to score 10 to win and consequently end up scoring one..or none. With Garcia or any other competent to great starter, not only can we overcome a poor offensive showing, but the offense would surely be a lot looser knowing they have a good pitcher going for them.

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Wait, since when are we in the market for Garcia AND Beltran?

We're talking about one position player here. He does not make us a WS contender. Garcia and a Closer, however, do.

Beltran is not a good fit here AT ALL if Magglio's still around. And I don't want this to become a Maggs vs. Beltran thing. We're either gonna have Maggs or neither. And I totally see us re-signing Maggs, so in that scenario...

That's way too much money devoted to another hitter in Beltran. He brings great power for a center fielder, but the other things he brings--speed, defense--can be found in a 2-5 million dollar player. And that's all we need. We don't need a superstar center fielder. We need several positions on this team--Starter, Closer, Center Fielder, and maybe even more bullpen help.

If we add Beltran, that's all we're getting. That's stupid. You can't slug your way to a championship with no closer and only two dependable starters. Garland and Schoeneweis are good over a whole year but both can get rocked on any given day. We need three to go all the way. Right now we only have two.

I'm thinking in the whole scope of things here. We can see we need Maggs in this lineup and he's probably gonna be cheaper than Beltran. If we do end up losing Maggs, I want the Starter, Closer, and Center fielder addressed and it could be done for not much more than Maggs's 14 million or Beltrans' 16 million. To me, only two things make sense: either re-sign Maggs, or let him go and replace him with middle tier free agents to plug the holes in this team. That's the first I've heard of acquiring Beltran as a bad thing. I have to disagree. If we acquired Beltran, it makes us better, and no one said that would be all we get as far as needs. The way it affects Maggs, well he's a big boy, so I'm not worried if he feels threatened by it, especially since everyone (including him) wants to win and he would certainly help. In fact, I think Beltran gives us an edge in trying to resign Maggs. If Maggs still refuses and we can sign Beltran, thats absolutely fine from my point of view.

DSpivack
06-11-2004, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That's the first I've heard of acquiring Beltran as a bad thing. I have to disagree. If we acquired Beltran, it makes us better, and no one said that would be all we get as far as needs. The way it affects Maggs, well he's a big boy, so I'm not worried if he feels threatened by it, especially since everyone (including him) wants to win and he would certainly help. In fact, I think Beltran gives us an edge in trying to resign Maggs. If Maggs still refuses and we can sign Beltran, thats absolutely fine from my point of view.

I don't believe it is necessarily a bad thing, as obviously acquiring a player like Carlos Beltran would add to any team.

That said, however, it would hinder us from making more important acquisitions, from filling deeper holes in our organization and in our team. This offense is certainy good enough right now, what we need is bullpen help and another starter, though what team isn't saying that.

But maybe JR would raise the payroll for us to afford Garcia, Beltran, and a closer.

StockdaleForVeep
06-11-2004, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That's the first I've heard of acquiring Beltran as a bad thing. I have to disagree. If we acquired Beltran, it makes us better, and no one said that would be all we get as far as needs. The way it affects Maggs, well he's a big boy, so I'm not worried if he feels threatened by it, especially since everyone (including him) wants to win and he would certainly help. In fact, I think Beltran gives us an edge in trying to resign Maggs. If Maggs still refuses and we can sign Beltran, thats absolutely fine from my point of view.


Magglio has stated he wants to stay on the sox due to its the team that called him up\etc. Bring in beltran, whats mags to think now "gee, maybe this team doesnt want me anymore, ive seen robin and other beloved sox players just let go"

The simple fact that magz mind could be on somethin else OTHER than baseball could be fatal for his performance and our team. Plus your on the assumption if we get beltran, we will keep him. I recall the talk when the nomah trades rumors were brewin, that he wouldnt even stay in chicago. So in a sense you lose 2 players for what?

We dont need offense, thats been proven as we are crushing the ball. Only time we struggled offense wise was against a GOOD pitching team like oakland or seattle. You cant expect any offense to be scoring 10 runs a game, occasionally you will only score 2. We only really need a starter, Garcia is proven and can win us those 1-0 ball games. Closer im avid we have that solved in takatsu. Also, i saw above the pitching rotations, id argue to ship garland to 5th cuz that 10 run game he gave up terrifies me. Im worried one massive bad start like that will have him revert back to his problems he's had with us ever since.

I simply do not understand why people complain about the offense. Dont fix it if it aint broke.

gosox41
06-11-2004, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
He just said he expects Beltran to end up in Chicago. Now why he didn't say Sox or Cubs, he meant the Sox with the divisional ref. So now we know Beltran won't end up here. Oh well.


Maybe he meant Francis Beltran.


Bob

mmmmmbeeer
06-11-2004, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by dougs78
I still stand by my prediction. The reason Kenny is saying Borchard and Reed are untouchable in a deal for a pitcher (read: Garcia) is that he plans on unloading one of them in a deal for a big hitter (read: Beltran) later in the summer. It could severely deplete our minor league talent, but it would be well worth it for a chance at it this year.

And to Batman, I challenge your assertion that Beltran would not make us much better. Are you honestly saying that switching from Rowand to Beltran would not make the team "much better?" If so, then I don't think you appreciate the difference between their games...its immense.

Harris
Uribe
Thomas
Ordonez
Beltran
Lee
Konerko
Crede
Olivo

Thats so much better than what we are running out there right now, its not even funny. Combine that with:

Buehrle
Loaiza
Garcia
Garland
Schoenweiss


Now we are finally talking about a team that can do some damage. I'm not saying it will all happen, I'm just saying that is what the current plan is.

Wow.

The only thing I'd do to change your lineup is to bench/trade Crede and plug Juan in at 3B with Jose, another producing lefty, back starting at SS where he belongs.

Man, that's one beautiful lineup and rotation.

jabrch
06-11-2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Waste of money. Doesn't make us much better.


Ummm - your what hurts? Did you say Carlos Beltran doesn't make us much better? We sign Beltran, then Harris moves to 2B, Uribe to SS and Manos platoons with Crede at 3B, or if Joe doesn't pick it up, Manos may take 3B over. How does that not make us much better? Now I agree that we need a 5th starter and a closer, but maybe JR has left KW enough $$$ to do a lot more than we think?

Champs2004
06-11-2004, 08:45 AM
Either Reynolds is his usual crackhead self, or KW is making sure that we win it all, and with all the money that's coming off the books, we may end up getting Beltran and keeping him and Magglio here.

rwcescato
06-11-2004, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That's the first I've heard of acquiring Beltran as a bad thing. I have to disagree. If we acquired Beltran, it makes us better, and no one said that would be all we get as far as needs. The way it affects Maggs, well he's a big boy, so I'm not worried if he feels threatened by it, especially since everyone (including him) wants to win and he would certainly help. In fact, I think Beltran gives us an edge in trying to resign Maggs. If Maggs still refuses and we can sign Beltran, thats absolutely fine from my point of view.

I think if we trade for Beltran it would be a great addition. But does it mean that we are going to trade Maggs. I f contract talks have broken off then I think that Maggs might be trade bait down the road. If we did get Beltran and sign him then it finally gives us a real CF in which we have not had in a long time. And as much as I like Maggs we can sign a Free Agent corner outfielder in the off season. So I like this move and it gives us a legitmate shot for the division and playoffs. So lets get the trade done before we play the flubs.
Rich

Mickster
06-11-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Are you joking?! The fifth starter spot has only come up 8 times this season and we've lost seven of them by scores of 5-4, 3-0, 10-7, 10-6, 7-2, 9-1, 5-1. I'm going to go out on a limb and say we lose the games in which we scored 0, 1, and 2 runs meaning that at most a different fifth starter adds three wins and most likely even fewer.

The 5th starter has been less important so far this year b/c we'll have a total of 17 days off (including rain-outs) before the AS break. After the break, however.... Look at the schedule. The sox have a total of 3 (count them) scheduled days off for 81 games! Horriffic 2nd half schedule! :(:

mdep524
06-11-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Champs2004
Either Reynolds is his usual crackhead self, or KW is making sure that we win it all, and with all the money that's coming off the books, we may end up getting Beltran and keeping him and Magglio here.
My dream! :)

Unfortunately, I respect Harold Reynolds less than any other so-called baseball "expert." I cannot stand the guy, so when I saw him say this on Sportscenter last night I was...conflicted. :?:

joecrede
06-11-2004, 01:15 PM
How about this:

Maggs to the Mets for at least David Wright and Reed and Crede to the Royals for Beltran? :smile:

mdep524
06-11-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
How about this:

Maggs to the Mets for at least David Wright and Reed and Crede to the Royals for Beltran? :smile:

I've said this before and proved it with payroll numbers, it is totally realistic money-wise for the Sox to sign BOTH Mags and Beltran, considering how many expiring expensive contracts they have this year (and if Lee or Konerko is traded).

I'm not saying it is likely, just that it is entirely possible.

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
I've said this before and proved it with payroll numbers, it is totally realistic money-wise for the Sox to sign BOTH Mags and Beltran, considering how many expiring expensive contracts they have this year (and if Lee or Konerko is traded).

I'm not saying it is likely, just that it is entirely possible. There are going to be increases as well, Uribe, Garland, Schoney possibly, Loaiza. No doubt there will be money avaliable, but I would assume if we signed Beltran, which I would welcome with open arms, there would be enough money to sign some top notch pitching, starters and pen, but little left for what Maggs wants. I don't mind starting Reed or Borchard in right if we had a guy like Beltran patrolling CF, even this year.

nitetrain8601
06-11-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
How about this:

Maggs to the Mets for at least David Wright and Reed and Crede to the Royals for Beltran? :smile:

I don't know about Crede. A 3rd basemen is harder to get than a CF. I mean you could always trade Lee or Konerko for Beltran and plug in Reed or Borchard in left. I would never give up on Crede this early. He's proven himself on every level in the minors and right now he's just in a slump. Everybody has a slump, you just play out of it. Remember Konerko last year? He had a much more horrible start and in the 2nd half he turned it on. Now Crede has the same problem to a lesser effect. He's still great defensively and he's proven himself with timely hits.

Guys don't forget we need to extend Loiaza and I think we got raising contracts with Uribe and Schoey. We do get rid of Koch's contract and hopefully Konerko if we end up trading him.

StepsInSC
06-11-2004, 04:29 PM
Isn't Beltran's agent Boras?

Shouldn't that say enough?

misty60481
06-11-2004, 04:39 PM
I dont think we are going to get as much as we want trading Maggs because of FA at end of year the only way is if we trade for another player who is in last year of contract

batmanZoSo
06-11-2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Ummm - your what hurts? Did you say Carlos Beltran doesn't make us much better? We sign Beltran, then Harris moves to 2B, Uribe to SS and Manos platoons with Crede at 3B, or if Joe doesn't pick it up, Manos may take 3B over. How does that not make us much better? Now I agree that we need a 5th starter and a closer, but maybe JR has left KW enough $$$ to do a lot more than we think?

By signing Beltran you're adding 15 or 16 million but getting only one guy. So we're not getting much better for all that extra money spent. And if we sign him and lose Maggs it's almost a wash anyway, so what the hell is the point?

None of this matters. We're never ever getting Beltran. Do you any of you know who his agent is? Enough said there.

munchman33
06-11-2004, 09:00 PM
I'm only going to say this once. Carlos Beltran is the best player in the American Leauge. He's left handed. He's among the fastest players in baseball. He can hit well enough to lead off or be the cleanup hitter. His defense is great.

Think this team scores runs now? Try putting a lefty with his ability in the middle of it. We'd be breaking records non-stop.

Anyone who doesn't think his addition to this team (or any team for that matter) makes them appreciably better either has a personal vendetta against him or has utterly no clue what they're talking about.

I'm not downgrading our need for a fifth starter. But if it comes down to getting a fifth starter to give us a chance to win every fifth day or a hitter who gives us a chance to score double digits every game, I'll take that hitter. Beltran is simply one of those special case players.

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
I'm only going to say this once. Carlos Beltran is the best player in the American Leauge. He's left handed. He's among the fastest players in baseball. He can hit well enough to lead off or be the cleanup hitter. His defense is great.

Think this team scores runs now? Try putting a lefty with his ability in the middle of it. We'd be breaking records non-stop.

Anyone who doesn't think his addition to this team (or any team for that matter) makes them appreciably better either has a personal vendetta against him or has utterly no clue what they're talking about.

I'm not downgrading our need for a fifth starter. But if it comes down to getting a fifth starter to give us a chance to win every fifth day or a hitter who gives us a chance to score double digits every game, I'll take that hitter. Beltran is simply one of those special case players. Agreed, but Beltran is a switch hitter (not a lefty), which makes him that more dangerous.

ndgt10
06-11-2004, 10:59 PM
I would love to get Beltran and sign him long-term. Beltran >> Maggs.

SEALgep
06-11-2004, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by ndgt10
I would love to get Beltran and sign him long-term. Beltran >> Maggs. I agree. We would be better off IMO. Having a stud CF allows us to have one of our prospects play the corner, whether it be Reed or Borchard. That puts us in a good position for the future as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about next year with the minor leaguers, because KW has made it clear that we are going for it, and has no plans to trade Maggs. He even said it would be contradictory to what we're trying to do, which is reassuring for me.

rahulsekhar
06-11-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
There are going to be increases as well, Uribe, Garland, Schoney possibly, Loaiza. No doubt there will be money avaliable, but I would assume if we signed Beltran, which I would welcome with open arms, there would be enough money to sign some top notch pitching, starters and pen, but little left for what Maggs wants. I don't mind starting Reed or Borchard in right if we had a guy like Beltran patrolling CF, even this year.

IIRC, we have something like $6mil in expected salary increases. We also have Val ($5mil), Koch ($6mil), and Maggs($14mil) coming off. Resigning Maggs at his $14mil leaves us $5mil to spend.

Now throw in a resigned Loaiza with a $2mil increase from this year, add a veteran closer at a couple mil, and you are virtually flat in payroll.

Now I anticipate payroll going up this offseason based on team success driving increased attendance. But I don't know if it'll go up $16mil - more like $8-10.

jordan23ventura
06-12-2004, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar


IIRC, we have something like $6mil in expected salary increases. We also have Val ($5mil), Koch ($6mil), and Maggs($14mil) coming off. Resigning Maggs at his $14mil leaves us $5mil to spend.

Now throw in a resigned Loaiza with a $2mil increase from this year, add a veteran closer at a couple mil, and you are virtually flat in payroll.

Now I anticipate payroll going up this offseason based on team success driving increased attendance. But I don't know if it'll go up $16mil - more like $8-10.


So you figure the same team, same payroll, minus 25mil plus 6mil?

If this held true that would be 19mil left over. Valentin doesn't need to be replaced as Harris could move to 2B and Uribe to SS, Crede at 3rd. We can pick up another IF UT guy for change. (I have a feeling "Valentine" is going to put up his best offensive season since 2000 this year, and would still be worth 4mil at the very least). Koch can, yes, be replaced easily with 2mil. Maggs can be replaced with Borchard/Reed/Gload and Timo if necessary. That's still 17mil left over.

The remaining holes are another strong SP and CF, as we should have enough bullpen depth in our system with Diaz/Munoz/Cotts/Adkins/Stewart/Rauch/Grilli. They can't ALL be traded. Plus, we always seem to find a way to pick up a Gordon or Mike Jackson if necessary. Add Beltran at CF for 16mil (worst case scenario) and still 1mil left over plus any increases. An 8mil increase would be 9mil left over for another SP, which would make Sheets still a nice target. With a sure-fire CF and LF, we can take our chances with Borchard or Reed and trade the other, leaving Gload/Timo as a backup plan.

How about this then:
Maggs to contender for prospects A and B (whatever contender that has something KC wants). Prospect A + Rauch/Grilli + PTBNL to KC for Beltran.
Borchard/Reed + Rowand + Adkins/Diaz/Munoz for Sheets

Our lineup looks like
2B Harris L
SS Uribe R
CF Beltran S
DH Thomas R
LF Lee R
3B Valentin L
1B Konerko R
RF Reed/Borchard L/R
C Olivo R
Lack of speed/baserunning only at 4 and 7 hole

Rotation
Loaiza R
Buerhle L
Sheets R
Schoenwiess L
Garland R

Mohoney
06-12-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Magglio has stated he wants to stay on the sox due to its the team that called him up\etc. Bring in beltran, whats mags to think now "gee, maybe this team doesnt want me anymore, ive seen robin and other beloved sox players just let go"

The simple fact that magz mind could be on somethin else OTHER than baseball could be fatal for his performance and our team. Plus your on the assumption if we get beltran, we will keep him. I recall the talk when the nomah trades rumors were brewin, that he wouldnt even stay in chicago. So in a sense you lose 2 players for what?

We dont need offense, thats been proven as we are crushing the ball. Only time we struggled offense wise was against a GOOD pitching team like oakland or seattle. You cant expect any offense to be scoring 10 runs a game, occasionally you will only score 2. We only really need a starter, Garcia is proven and can win us those 1-0 ball games. Closer im avid we have that solved in takatsu. Also, i saw above the pitching rotations, id argue to ship garland to 5th cuz that 10 run game he gave up terrifies me. Im worried one massive bad start like that will have him revert back to his problems he's had with us ever since.

I simply do not understand why people complain about the offense. Dont fix it if it aint broke.

I would be VERY worried about Garcia in a 1-0 game.

In fact, I would have more confidence in Ben Sheets with a 1-0 lead than Garcia.

batmanZoSo
06-12-2004, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Mohoney
I would be VERY worried about Garcia in a 1-0 game.

In fact, I would have more confidence in Ben Sheets with a 1-0 lead than Garcia.

Why is that? Is it because Garcia has had ten times the career Ben Sheets has had so far? This guy sucked until this year. He wasn't just on a bad team, he sucked. Now he's hot. Granted, he was young and "learning" but hey, results are results. I think you're short-changing Garcia big time is all. We'll see if Sheets is for real. If you don't trust Garcia 1-0, you don't trust anyone on our team right now.

Mohoney
06-12-2004, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Why is that? Is it because Garcia has had ten times the career Ben Sheets has had so far? This guy sucked until this year. He wasn't just on a bad team, he sucked. Now he's hot. Granted, he was young and "learning" but hey, results are results. I think you're short-changing Garcia big time is all. We'll see if Sheets is for real. If you don't trust Garcia 1-0, you don't trust anyone on our team right now.

You're right. I don't trust anybody on our staff with a 1-0 lead. I can only name about 5 guys TOTAL That I trust in that way, and I don't see Rocket or Unit coming here.

I like Sheets because he shows more of an ability to win on the road than Garcia. Plus, Sheets has shown steady improvement year-to-year, while Garcia showed the possibility of severe regression (last year).

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I see Sheets in All-Star games in '05 and '06, and his lesser service time GUARANTEES (unless we ROYALLY louse up and refuse to either sign him long-term or offer him arbitration) that those years will be on the South Side.

Man Soo Lee
06-12-2004, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
IIRC, we have something like $6mil in expected salary increases. We also have Val ($5mil), Koch ($6mil), and Maggs($14mil) coming off. Resigning Maggs at his $14mil leaves us $5mil to spend.

Based on the numbers at Dugout Dollars (http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_12_28_dugoutdollars_archive.html), I count $7.5M that is already committed to raises. Buehrle (2.25M increase), Frank (2M), Lee (1.5M), Marte (1M), and Konerko (.75M).

Free agents (Alomar, Jackson, Koch, Loaiza, Ordonez, Valentin) and likely non-tenders (Timo Perez, Wunsch) total $32+M of departing salary. So, there's a $24.5M difference.

Raises for the arbitration-eligible Garland, Schoeneweis, and Uribe would eat into that a little bit. The Sox also have a $2.5M option on Shingo ($1.75M increase over '04 salary) and a $1.3M option on Politte (.5M increase).

Based on a payroll like '04, that leaves roughly $20M to add two starting pitchers, a RH reliever or two, a backup catcher, a utility infielder, and (ideally) a big bat.

gosox41
06-12-2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by ndgt10
I would love to get Beltran and sign him long-term. Beltran >> Maggs.

I'll make a prediction. I think that if the rumors are true about Magglio and the Sox not negotiating contracts, then I'm willing to bet Magglio signs somewhere else as a FA after Beltran.

The problem is Boras will sucker some owner into overpaying for Beltran and that will set a similar market for Ordonez. Let's say Beltran gets the 8 years $16 mill he supposedly wants. I, for one, don't think Magglio should get more then Vladimir let alond $2 more per season for 3 more years!


Bob

StockdaleForVeep
06-12-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Mohoney
I would be VERY worried about Garcia in a 1-0 game.

In fact, I would have more confidence in Ben Sheets with a 1-0 lead than Garcia.


Ben sheets is gonna be a fluke just like jeff d'amico was for the brewers.