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Lip Man 1
06-10-2004, 02:29 PM
Kenny Williams to Josh Elliott from Sports Illustrated.

"We've got fans who've waited generations for a World Series Championship. They are extremely frustrated. Ozzie'll change that."

We'll see.

Lip

fledgedrallycap
06-10-2004, 02:32 PM
Talk is cheap, but I like to hear encouraging words rather than excuses.

South Side
06-10-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Kenny Williams to Josh Elliott from Sports Illustrated.

"We've got fans who've waited generations for a World Series Championship. They are extremely frustrated. Ozzie'll change that."

We'll see.

Lip

Would you prefer he say "We've got fans who've waited generations for a World Series Championship. They are extremely frustrated. But they're going to keep on waiting." What do you want??

Lip Man 1
06-10-2004, 05:18 PM
South Side:

The point being made was that despite how good a manager Ozzie can be (and I think he can be a fine one...), a manager by himself can't win anything.

Name any great Hall Of Fame manager you want, Lopez, Stengel, Alston, Weaver, Lasorda, Huggins whomever and if that manager doesn't get the talent he doesn't win.

Ozzie is only as good as the talent Ken Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf can give him. I just thought it was a bit unfair for Kenny to put that type of responsibility on Ozzie directly by his comments.

It takes an organization to win by getting top level talent by any and all means.

We'll see if the people above Ozzie are willing to do this. (and yes that could mean raising the payroll dramatically...)

That's all I meant. (Although I loved Williams' comment about Sox fans being 'extremely frustrated.' He hit the nail right on the head with that part.)

Lip

rahulsekhar
06-10-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1


Ozzie is only as good as the talent Ken Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf can give him. I just thought it was a bit unfair for Kenny to put that type of responsibility on Ozzie directly by his comments.



Lip: You make it seem like he's trying to pre-emptively cover his own behind, which is not how I took it. I took it as KW saying that Ozzie's going to be the type of manager who gets everything out of the talent he has and can take a team to the WS.

Iwritecode
06-10-2004, 05:31 PM
KW has always shown that he knows exactly what fans are going through and is going to do everything in his power to stop the suffering...

JR is another story alltogether...

Nick@Nite
06-10-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
Talk is cheap, but I like to hear encouraging words rather than excuses.

Now that's a great response!

batmanZoSo
06-10-2004, 06:41 PM
"We've got fans who've waited generations for a World Series Championship. They are extremely frustrated. Ozzie'll change that. [Cause I sure as hell can't. I mean I'm dyin here! Save me Ozzie!"

:)

Ozzie is the type of manager that can dispell that trademark Sox playoff corpseball that happens every time. I can really see him taking us all the way. But I can also see him losing it for us a la Dusty Baker in 02, taking out Russ Ortiz (d'oh). Or leaving in Prior in 03. He just has to get better at x's and o's...those are huge in the playoffs. And he will get better, but how much remains to be seen. Overall, he's done a great job, but he does worry me with pitching changes (and non-changes) and pinch hitting (and non-pinch-hitting).

WSox8404
06-10-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Kenny Williams to Josh Elliott from Sports Illustrated.

"We've got fans who've waited generations for a World Series Championship. They are extremely frustrated. Ozzie'll change that."

We'll see.

Lip

Hey Kenny, what you do has a big part in letting your fans be happy too. So lets go out and get some players, okay?

Lip Man 1
06-10-2004, 06:51 PM
Rahul: I'm not saying Kenny deliberately is trying to cover his ass. I just think he misspoke a little bit. Ozzie will (if given time) change some things about this team but Ozzie has limitations and those are directly tied to the amount and type of talent he gets.

Even the best manager can only win or lose a limited number of games in a season. Nobody has ever been able to decide on how many.

My comments are not meant as an attack on anybody, I just feel Kenny could have phrased things better.

Lip

South Side
06-10-2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
South Side:

The point being made was that despite how good a manager Ozzie can be (and I think he can be a fine one...), a manager by himself can't win anything.

Name any great Hall Of Fame manager you want, Lopez, Stengel, Alston, Weaver, Lasorda, Huggins whomever and if that manager doesn't get the talent he doesn't win.

Ozzie is only as good as the talent Ken Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf can give him. I just thought it was a bit unfair for Kenny to put that type of responsibility on Ozzie directly by his comments.

It takes an organization to win by getting top level talent by any and all means.

We'll see if the people above Ozzie are willing to do this. (and yes that could mean raising the payroll dramatically...)

That's all I meant. (Although I loved Williams' comment about Sox fans being 'extremely frustrated.' He hit the nail right on the head with that part.)

Lip


I see, I misunderstood. I thought you were complaining about Kenny's optimism. I think JR is making a tad bit of progress. It seems he is taking this year seriously considering he is allowing a *slight* pay roll increase ( I doubt you will see anything dramatic in terms of payroll). You've got to give him credit for that. So, hopefully this year will be different and we will see new results, whether or not that will be a direct effect of Ozzie's presence or not but it will dramatize it a bit more.

RedPinStripes
06-10-2004, 07:18 PM
After the Marlins and Angels won it on low payrolls, forget it. No big payroll jump.

:reinsy
"See! It can be done!"

batmanZoSo
06-10-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by South Side
I see, I misunderstood. I thought you were complaining about Kenny's optimism. I think JR is making a tad bit of progress. It seems he is taking this year seriously considering he is allowing a *slight* pay roll increase ( I doubt you will see anything dramatic in terms of payroll). You've got to give him credit for that. So, hopefully this year will be different and we will see new results, whether or not that will be a direct effect of Ozzie's presence or not but it will dramatize it a bit more.

He'll definitely put some more money into the team next year if we win this year. The payroll jumped from like 30 to 60 million after we won the division in 2000. Of course we're not gonna see a double in payroll next year no matter what we do. But he has shown to at least loosen his grasp on the payroll when the Sox have a chance to go all the way.

rahulsekhar
06-10-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
After the Marlins and Angels won it on low payrolls, forget it. No big payroll jump.

:reinsy
"See! It can be done!"

Historically speaking, the Sox have increased payroll the year after attendance spikes. So if the team continues to play well and attendance continues to improve, there's no reason to think they won't do the same again.

And since most expect Kenny to swing a deal for an impact player (most likely a pitcher), I would hope that attendance would get a pretty nice jump, giving us the ability to swing a decent increase in payroll.

Of course, with all of that - if Maggs is looking for $16mil/yr, he's still not going to find it here. But that's not because of payroll limitations.

rahulsekhar
06-10-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Rahul: I'm not saying Kenny deliberately is trying to cover his ass. I just think he misspoke a little bit. Ozzie will (if given time) change some things about this team but Ozzie has limitations and those are directly tied to the amount and type of talent he gets.

Even the best manager can only win or lose a limited number of games in a season. Nobody has ever been able to decide on how many.

My comments are not meant as an attack on anybody, I just feel Kenny could have phrased things better.

Lip

I see. I misunderstood then. In that case, I agree with you - but I still think that Kenny meant it more as a way to pump up fans about Ozzie than any actual expectation of Ozzie's future record as Sox manager.

RedPinStripes
06-10-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Historically speaking, the Sox have increased payroll the year after attendance spikes. So if the team continues to play well and attendance continues to improve, there's no reason to think they won't do the same again.

And since most expect Kenny to swing a deal for an impact player (most likely a pitcher), I would hope that attendance would get a pretty nice jump, giving us the ability to swing a decent increase in payroll.

Of course, with all of that - if Maggs is looking for $16mil/yr, he's still not going to find it here. But that's not because of payroll limitations.

Attendance will take a big **** if Maggs signs with the Yankees . And if George wants him, he will get him

Railsplitter
06-11-2004, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Kenny Williams to Josh Elliott from Sports Illustrated.

"We've got fans who've waited generations for a World Series Championship. They are extremely frustrated. Ozzie'll change that."

We'll see.

Lip

Can Ozzie work an inning or two out of the pen?