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View Full Version : *Official* Postgame Thread - Sox vs. Phillies - 6/9/04


FarWestChicago
06-09-2004, 10:36 PM
Beaten by a field goal. :(:

kojak
06-09-2004, 10:39 PM
No thanks to the upper portion of the lineup: Zero RBI from Harris, Uribe, Frank and Lee.

tromcoe
06-09-2004, 10:40 PM
I have absolutely no idea what to expect tomorrow when I attend. Has it been God awful pitching or amazing hitting? I will take a 4 - 2 decision tomorrow in a heartbeat!

RKMeibalane
06-09-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by kojak
No thanks to the upper portion of the lineup: Zero RBI from Harris, Uribe, Frank and Lee.

Get over it. It was one game. Besides, the whole thing is Koch's fault anyway.

valposoxfan
06-09-2004, 10:41 PM
Interestingly enough, if it weren't for Billy, we'd be going to extra innings right now...

ChiSox7
06-09-2004, 10:43 PM
So much for first place alone. Tough to lose a ballgame when you score 10 runs.

The thing that really sucks is that hte Twins have made up 2.5 games over the past week and a half and they have really been sucking.

16 runs in their last five games (3.3 runs per game) and they have won FOUR of them.

34 runs for the sox in their last five games and they only won 2 of them. YIKES. :(

What happens when the Twins start playing well? Uh oh.

valposoxfan
06-09-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
So much for first place alone. Tough to lose a ballgame when you score 10 runs.

The thing that really sucks is that hte Twins have made up 2.5 games over the past week and a half and they have really been sucking.

16 runs in their last five games (3.3 runs per game) and they have won FOUR of them.

34 runs for the sox in their last five games and they only won 2 of them. YIKES. :(

What happens when the Twins start playing well? Uh oh.

In case you haven't noticed, we are in a slump as well...what happens when we start playing well...

FarWestChicago
06-09-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
In case you haven't noticed, we are in a slump as well...what happens when we start playing well... I'm becoming conviced that guy is actually a Twins troll...

valposoxfan
06-09-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I'm becoming conviced that guy is actually a Twins troll...

Wait, me? Say it ain't so FarWest.

ChiSox7
06-09-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
In case you haven't noticed, we are in a slump as well...what happens when we start playing well...

My point is the Twins know how to create wins when they are playing so bad. That is something, as evidenced in the last week and change, that we don't know how to do. They will suck it up, but find a way to win, that's why they have beaten us the last couple of years.

Everyone has conviently said, 'hey, we're in first place!' That luxury will go away soon.

ChiSox7
06-09-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I'm becoming conviced that guy is actually a Twins troll...

You're kidding right? Is everybody that doesn't ALWAYS say something positive, and NEVER questions the team some kind of troll. Is everybody that disagrees with your views automatically wrong, and deserving of an insult, which to me a "twins troll" is. Thats just disgusting.

Just because I don't want to be a pollyanna doesn't mean I'm some kind of troll. Don't you DARE label me as a Twins fan either. I haven't missed a Sox game, or TV or the internet, in YEARS. Just because you don't agree with what somebody says doesn't make them a troll automatically.

And as many people said in the gameday thread, some people don't like being Pollyanna's ALL the time.

valposoxfan
06-09-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
My point is the Twins know how to create wins when they are playing so bad. That is something, as evidenced in the last week and change, that we don't know how to do. They will suck it up, but find a way to win, that's why they have beaten us the last couple of years.

Everyone has conviently said, 'hey, we're in first place!' That luxury will go away soon.

Yea but they also lost seven of ten before that. They weren't finding ways to win then. A couple of wins have been on walk-off hits the last week, just like our entire first month. The two game swing we took on the west coast too, going 1-4 instead of 3-2. We'll be ok. This has just been a weird and heartbreaking last week. Just gotta win the series tomorrow.

ChiSox7
06-09-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Yea but they also lost three of seven before that. They weren't finding ways to win then. A couple of wins have been on walk-off hits the last week, just like our entire first month. The two game swing we took on the west coast too, going 1-4 instead of 3-2. We'll be ok. This has just been a weird and heartbreaking last week. Just gotta win the series tomorrow.

And yet we're still tied with them. I see what you are saying, and agree with it to an extent. I certainly don't just disregard it like some people do because it's opposite of what I think. I respect your opinion.

My point is that we had a real opportunity to get a pretty solid lead on the Twins and we let that slip away. That has been the problem the last several years.

kojak
06-09-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Get over it. It was one game. Besides, the whole thing is Koch's fault anyway.

You must be from Indiana

valposoxfan
06-09-2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
And yet we're still tied with them. I see what you are saying, and agree with it to an extent. I certainly don't just disregard it like some people do because it's opposite of what I think. I respect your opinion.

My point is that we had a real opportunity to get a pretty solid lead on the Twins and we let that slip away. That has been the problem the last several years.

I see your point. We should have been up by three games coming home from the West Coast but key Twins losses kept us in first place in well. We're going through a tough stretch of games. You're right, the extra padding would have been nice but we aren't out of first place yet, and we have 12 games still to play with them. It is frustrating though, I agree.

compy75
06-09-2004, 10:57 PM
In the end, the key will be taking tomorrow's game. The first games we can throw away and focus on tomorrow's game. If we lose tomorrow, it may be time to worry.

I also have a feeling that Ozzie will somehow screw up the whole NL park games...somehow...some way

valposoxfan
06-09-2004, 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Get over it. It was one game. Besides, the whole thing is Koch's fault anyway.



You must be from Indiana





It's just ironic how the difference in the score can be traced directly back to Billy giving up those inherited runs from Cotts and then one earned run back in the seventh. He can't be feeling good about himself at this point, period.

ChiSox7
06-09-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
I see your point. We should have been up by three games coming home from the West Coast but key Twins losses kept us in first place in well. We're going through a tough stretch of games. You're right, the extra padding would have been nice but we aren't out of first place yet, and we have 12 games still to play with them. It is frustrating though, I agree.

Thanks for having a good convo with me instead of just blatantly calling me a troll.

I definately don't think we're out of it. That would be ludicrous. The main thing is just so much frustration that the twins keep winning games like that when they only score 2 or 3 runs, and we have trouble with that.

But I we're definately not anywhere near out of it. We just need to win series.

South Side
06-09-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Interestingly enough, if it weren't for Billy, we'd be going to extra innings right now...


DAMN YOU KOCH!!!!

No, seriously though that is so sad. The fact that this game's loss can be traced back to him...I just feel bad for the guy.

ma-gaga
06-09-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Just because I don't want to be a pollyanna doesn't mean I'm some kind of troll. Don't you DARE label me as a Twins fan either. I haven't missed a Sox game, or TV or the internet, in YEARS. Just because you don't agree with what somebody says doesn't make them a troll automatically.


Relax. FWC wields the mighty sword of sarcasm. He doesn't need to use colors to express himself...

:gulp:

MRKARNO
06-09-2004, 11:21 PM
For the record we are in first place alone still. Minnesota is .002 behind.

FarWestChicago
06-09-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Wait, me? Say it ain't so FarWest. No, not you. :smile:

CWSGuy406
06-10-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by compy75
In the end, the key will be taking tomorrow's game. The first games we can throw away and focus on tomorrow's game. If we lose tomorrow, it may be time to worry.

I also have a feeling that Ozzie will somehow screw up the whole NL park games...somehow...some way

Yeah - Ozzie has really screwed us so far this season, huh?

You know, I was thinking before the game - If it came down to one game, who would I want taking the hill? And I was thinking about Loaiza, Buerhle, and Garland. And I was pretty torn between all three of them.

Not a good day from Jonny on the hill tonight. I was sitting in the UD, was he leaving pitches up in the zone or what? Hopefully he can rebound, he's been really stellar thus far.

Just a game, go get them and the series win tommorow.

DSpivack
06-10-2004, 12:06 AM
Sure, Koch gave up 3 runs, but why did Garland come back for the fifth after giving up 8 runs? Is it 8 runs not enough to notice a guy just doesn't have his stuff?

Brian26
06-10-2004, 12:14 AM
Just got back from the game...

One observation....the Phillies scored 3 runs on a single. I only saw one small reference to this on the Gameday thread, but it was the botched rundown play to end the inning when Uribe was chasing the guy between first and second while the 3rd runner scored. Why even cut off the throw home if you're going to let that guy score? Awful defense.

And of course, Koch is the difference once again. What a shame.

batmanZoSo
06-10-2004, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Just got back from the game...

One observation....the Phillies scored 3 runs on a single. I only saw one small reference to this on the Gameday thread, but it was the botched rundown play to end the inning when Uribe was chasing the guy between first and second while the 3rd runner scored. Why even cut off the throw home if you're going to let that guy score? Awful defense.

And of course, Koch is the difference once again. What a shame.

Do you think we would've scored those runs off Wagner if it was a real save situation? I sure don't.

MRKARNO
06-10-2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Do you think we would've scored those runs off Wagner if it was a real save situation? I sure don't.

I dont know for a fact that Wagner would have been in were it a real save op. Wagner's coming off an injury so they mightve had Worrell close.

Jerko
06-10-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Do you think we would've scored those runs off Wagner if it was a real save situation? I sure don't.

Not only that, he would not have even been in there since he just came off the DL and was obviously only used so he can get some work. I WAS pissed off about the 3 runs scoring on a single though. Lee may not have had that guy at the plate, but if the ball goes thru only 1 run scores there.

batmanZoSo
06-10-2004, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Not only that, he would not have even been in there since he just came off the DL and was obviously only used so he can get some work. I WAS pissed off about the 3 runs scoring on a single though. Lee may not have had that guy at the plate, but if the ball goes thru only 1 run scores there.

Well at any rate, the whole complexion is different no matter who's pitching for them if the score is close. Our guys are a lot tighter and their pitchers are gonna have those juices flowing. We just saw Jackson get lit up like a torch with a six run lead or whatever it was he had.

But my point is that I'm not blaming anything on Koch. It's all Garland. He can't be this inconsistent. For a guy with such good looking stats, I can think of at least three times where he just got bombed...well the Twins game was a lot of cheap hits and we did win, but still unacceptable.

ZachAL
06-10-2004, 01:46 AM
Ok, I've been happy with Ozzie as long as we're winning. But even when we're winning i've also noticed that he cannot handle a bullpen. This has happened on MANY occasions, the most notably tonight. During Garland's terrible inning (i believe it was the 3rd or 4th) Ozzie had Cotts warming up towards the end of the inning. By the end of the inning Garland had thrown quite a few pitches and had walked in runs. With Abreu (who had a hell of a game) and Thome coming up in the next inning, both leftys-as is Cotts, we thought for sure Ozzie would bring in Cotts...But he didnt of course, and it resulted in a two-run homerun. Can anyone else bring up examples of things like this earlier in the season, for example i remember on many occasions when Ozzie wouldnt anticipate a certain player coming up in an inning and didnt warm up his pitchers accordingly, and other times when a tough lefty would come up, right around the time of a pitching change, and rather than going to a lefty warming up in the bullpen he'd stick with his starter.
Now I'm all for sticking with your starters when it is acceptable, but I have a problem with hardheadedness or a manager not anticipating certain situations. I don't mean to complain after 1 loss and im still a big ozzie fan, but i've seen it all season. I couldnt care less about this if we win, but it certainly helped deal us a loss today.

inta
06-10-2004, 03:23 AM
man why does this place get so nasty after a sox loss?

sad to say, i just dont expect sweeps by this sox team. but if we don't get the winning series tomorrow.... ugh.

SSN721
06-10-2004, 06:52 AM
It still shocks me in a game when the team gave up 13 runs, and 24 over two games, you can isolate one pitcher to blame. I think Koch deserves some of the blame, but to put this loss squarely on him is ridiculous to me. Not many people on our staff or in the pen have looked good over the last two days. Garlands performance I think attributed a lot more to the loss then Koch. I just hope the staff and pen gets their act together because they have all looked terrible these two games. I woul dlove to see a 2-1 win or something like that tonight when I go. Gotta take this series.

delben91
06-10-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
So much for first place alone. Tough to lose a ballgame when you score 10 runs.

The thing that really sucks is that hte Twins have made up 2.5 games over the past week and a half and they have really been sucking.

16 runs in their last five games (3.3 runs per game) and they have won FOUR of them.

34 runs for the sox in their last five games and they only won 2 of them. YIKES. :(

What happens when the Twins start playing well? Uh oh.

Couple of things I wanted to mention.

1. Yes, the Twins have been finding ways to win even while playing bad. Something to keep in mind though. The Twins are playing badly against the Mets and the Tigers and the Devil Rays. The Sox are playing badly against the A's and Seattle and Philly. I'd say the level of competition the Twins have right now makes it easier to overcome "playing badly" that the competition the Sox are facing. This isn't to say that the Twins will play equally as badly next time they get a rough schedule, just something to keep in the back of your head.

2. 9 times out of 10 if the Sox score 10 runs, they'll win. Pitching let them down today, and the starters (at least the top 4 guys) have been amazingly consistent all year. Just "one of those games" I'd bet.

3. Base hit hitters (obscure chat reference, had to throw it in there).

#1 is the key in my mind though. Doesn't ensure anything, but might explain the Twins ability to make up ground with both teams playing equally badly.

henchmanUK
06-10-2004, 08:26 AM
I always thought the second game was the one we were going to lose because they have Thome and Abreau, two pretty good lefty hitters. Hopefully Schoeneweis can slow them down tonight.

Brian26
06-10-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Do you think we would've scored those runs off Wagner if it was a real save situation? I sure don't.

Not at all. Those were, no doubt, garbage time runs.

batmanZoSo
06-10-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by delben91
Couple of things I wanted to mention.

1. Yes, the Twins have been finding ways to win even while playing bad. Something to keep in mind though. The Twins are playing badly against the Mets and the Tigers and the Devil Rays. The Sox are playing badly against the A's and Seattle and Philly. I'd say the level of competition the Twins have right now makes it easier to overcome "playing badly" that the competition the Sox are facing. This isn't to say that the Twins will play equally as badly next time they get a rough schedule, just something to keep in the back of your head.

2. 9 times out of 10 if the Sox score 10 runs, they'll win. Pitching let them down today, and the starters (at least the top 4 guys) have been amazingly consistent all year. Just "one of those games" I'd bet.

3. Base hit hitters (obscure chat reference, had to throw it in there).

#1 is the key in my mind though. Doesn't ensure anything, but might explain the Twins ability to make up ground with both teams playing equally badly.

And they've really been home a lot lately, haven't they? It seems they've been home for like 10 straight games and of course we had a 5 game road trip. They still gotta play the Yankees and that'll be 2-4 at best, likely 1-5, maybe even 0-6. It's just like us and Oakland.