PDA

View Full Version : Good Thing I'm Not the GM


hold2dibber
06-09-2004, 11:57 AM
I saw Ponson got lit up again last night and I couldn't help but think about how wrong I was this off season. I desparately wanted the Sox to sign Colon. When that didn't happen, I was hoping they could sign two starters a tier or 2 down from Colon's level - and Ponson and Pat Hentgen were, in my mind, two perfect candidates. I think all three of those guys have an ERA pushing 6.00! The season is far from over, but it just goes to show you that being a GM ain't easy (or, perhaps, it just shows that I'm a moron :smile: ). But at least I didn't advocate trading Carlos Lee for Rick Helling! (Sorry, Lip, couldn't help myself).

fledgedrallycap
06-09-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I saw Ponson got lit up again last night and I couldn't help but think about how wrong I was this off season. I desparately wanted the Sox to sign Colon. When that didn't happen, I was hoping they could sign two starters a tier or 2 down from Colon's level - and Ponson and Pat Hentgen were, in my mind, two perfect candidates. I think all three of those guys have an ERA pushing 6.00! The season is far from over, but it just goes to show you that being a GM ain't easy (or, perhaps, it just shows that I'm a moron :smile: ). But at least I didn't advocate trading Carlos Lee for Rick Helling! (Sorry, Lip, couldn't help myself).

You're not alone. I supported picking him up at the right price and both teams over-paid. Kudos to Kenny for setting an appropriate market price for inflated talent.

delben91
06-09-2004, 12:02 PM
I was all over the Ponson bandwagon as well.

Ah what foolishness I often spout.

Win1ForMe
06-09-2004, 12:24 PM
I guess that makes four of us.

JRIG
06-09-2004, 12:51 PM
I'll toot my own horn here:

There's been talk of the Sox aquiring Ponson for a couple years now. In my opinion he's an average at best guy who's been overworked by Mike Hargrove and is a good candidate for a major arm injury. Our resources would be better spent elsewhere. This is the first year in his career Ponson hasn't been a disappointment. And, as stated, this is his contract year.


doublem23 had the right idea as well...

It's all right. Ponson is a 27-year old fat ass mediocre until last year pitcher. The only thing he's missing is the 12 foot neon sign above his head reading, "MAJOR RISK!"

A. Cavatica
06-09-2004, 01:08 PM
Colon, Ponson...still would've done better than Wright, Diaz, Cotts, Rauch.

thepaulbowski
06-09-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Colon, Ponson...still would've done better than Wright, Diaz, Cotts, Rauch.

Actually no, because then the Sox would have gotten rid of payroll elsewhere.

Lip Man 1
06-09-2004, 02:07 PM
Hold:

No problem as long as you give me credit for advocating Rogers and Suppan.

Lip

PaulDrake
06-09-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I saw Ponson got lit up again last night and I couldn't help but think about how wrong I was this off season. I desparately wanted the Sox to sign Colon. When that didn't happen, I was hoping they could sign two starters a tier or 2 down from Colon's level - and Ponson and Pat Hentgen were, in my mind, two perfect candidates. I think all three of those guys have an ERA pushing 6.00! The season is far from over, but it just goes to show you that being a GM ain't easy (or, perhaps, it just shows that I'm a moron :smile: ). But at least I didn't advocate trading Carlos Lee for Rick Helling! (Sorry, Lip, couldn't help myself). Don't be so hard on yourself. We all want the Sox to win, but we're not the only ones lacking pitching depth. It's a problem common to many more teams than not. It makes it easy to overvalue guys like Colon or Ponson. Quality arms are just plain scarce in todays game.

hold2dibber
06-09-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hold:

No problem as long as you give me credit for advocating Rogers and Suppan.

Lip

It's true, you did. Either of those guys would have been a big improvement (although I don't think Rogers would have come here this year - all indications I've heard are that he really only wanted to play for the Rangers).

hold2dibber
06-09-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
Don't be so hard on yourself. We all want the Sox to win, but we're not the only ones lacking pitching depth. It's a problem common to many more teams than not. It makes it easy to overvalue guys like Colon or Ponson. Quality arms are just plain scarce in todays game.

It goes to show that to be successful, a team with a somewhat limited budget like the Sox has to do a good job of drafting, scouting and finding diamonds in the rough. None of the successful mid-level payroll teams have big money free agents in their rotations (Twins, A's, Reds, Padres, Marlins, White Sox). You have to be able to draft well (e.g., Hudson, Zito, Buehrle, Beckett) or you have to be able to identify players in other organizations who are under-valued or who have the potential to turn the corner (e.g., Loaiza, Santana, Schoenweiss, Wilson, Willis). If your team has a limited budget, spending a big chunk of it on free agent pitching is a very risky gambit.

Randar68
06-09-2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
If your team has a limited budget, spending a big chunk of it on free agent pitching is a very risky gambit.

Wait, isn't this the exact thing that 90% of the people here bitch and moan about JR intimating the same thing?

Dadawg_77
06-09-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
It goes to show that to be successful, a team with a somewhat limited budget like the Sox has to do a good job of drafting, scouting and finding diamonds in the rough. None of the successful mid-level payroll teams have big money free agents in their rotations (Twins, A's, Reds, Padres, Marlins, White Sox). You have to be able to draft well (e.g., Hudson, Zito, Buehrle, Beckett) or you have to be able to identify players in other organizations who are under-valued or who have the potential to turn the corner (e.g., Loaiza, Santana, Schoenweiss, Wilson, Willis). If your team has a limited budget, spending a big chunk of it on free agent pitching is a very risky gambit.

Another thing to consider from Gammons column on Mon:

The Marlins have what is a very talented rotation of high school pitchers, each taken somewhere between the second overall pick to the 13th round; this year, they are looking to select a college pitcher with the 29th pick. (Oh yes, the Marlins did take Josh Beckett with the second overall pick in '98, seven places in front of Barry Zito; Beckett has been paid more than Zito in their six pro years but Zito is 64-32, Beckett 21-21.)

It was the 99 draft not the 98. Also Beckett was paid 7 million signing bonus while Zito's was 1.5 million. Zito being a college pitcher was more polished thus closer to become a major leaguer. Thus A's got a quicker return on their investment then the Marlins did.

hold2dibber
06-09-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Wait, isn't this the exact thing that 90% of the people here bitch and moan about JR intimating the same thing?

Yes - including me on occasion. I'm re-thinking my position, to some extent. What it comes down to, I suppose, is the ability to evaluate talent and forecast future success. If you, as an organization, have the ability to identify potential "diamonds in the rough" perhaps you also have the ability to identify which pricey free agent pitchers are actually worth spending big money on. But of course, there are no guarantees - especially with pitchers.

My current thinking is that spending big money on free agent pitchers who have had only 1 good year or are otherwise mediocre (e.g., Ponson or Escobar from last year's free agent class) probably is not worth the risk. But when a free agent pitcher with a top of the rotation resume is available, it may be worth the risk - although it is still a risk (e.g., Colon or Clemens from last year's FA class). Same holds true for average-to-above average FA pitchers who have shown flashes of brilliance and are not overly pricey (e.g., Miguel Batista or Kenny Rogers from last year's FA class). But those are tough decisions, no doubt, and they can really come back to haunt a GM.

batmanZoSo
06-09-2004, 06:18 PM
I was opposed to getting Ponson as well. I knew he was overworked and had one good season in his whole career. And wouldn't you know it was also his contract year :?:

The second best move we didn't make. First was Bartolo. ANA and BALT can have em.