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View Full Version : OFFICIAL 2004 MLB Draft Day Thread: DAY 2***


Randar68
06-08-2004, 11:40 AM
The final 32 rounds of the draft will be starting around noon again today. Lot's of obscure names going to be called, but expect the Sox, as well as most teams, to take a lot of JuCo players or HS kids headed to JuCo.

Don't be surprised to see the Sox redraft Van Pope, Burke Baldwin, Neil Giesler, or several others they have drafted in the past...

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 11:55 AM
Don't know where to put this so I'll put this in here, but the Sox have reached an agreement with Gio Gonzalez. He will get an $850,000 signing bonus and a college fund which will pay for his tuition if he chooses to attend college.

He's expected to sign on Friday and will be sent to Arizona. After that its likely that he will be joining Kannapolis.

More of the Story (http://www.futuresox.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=399&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0)

By the way Randar, nice call. I think you were one of the few people that thought he would sign quickly. Sox always seem to do an extremely good job of figuring out whether a guy is going to sign with him or not. In this case, the Sox already had a pre-draft deal and I think they got him at a fair price. It also sounds like Lumsden and some of their others are going to sign fairly quickly.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
The final 32 rounds of the draft will be starting around noon again today. Lot's of obscure names going to be called, but expect the Sox, as well as most teams, to take a lot of JuCo players or HS kids headed to JuCo.

Don't be surprised to see the Sox redraft Van Pope, Burke Baldwin, Neil Giesler, or several others they have drafted in the past...

I'm new to all this, and I was wondering, is there a ton of talent playing JuCo baseball instead of at 4 year universities because of the DFE rule? Knowing that it would help their chances of being drafted for 2 years (late round better than no round for some), I would think some kids are choosing to go to JuCo for that reason alone. Or maybe it's not something young players really know about? What does this rule, and the number of HS players choosing the minors over college, do to the competiveness of NCAA baseball? I would think it hurts the high majors more than any other schools too, because they would be the ones getting the committments from kids going in the first 5 rounds and changing their minds to play A ball.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 12:12 PM
Day 2 has started on mlb.com radio.

Pope had a solid year at Mississippi's top Juco.

mendozaln
06-08-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Don't know where to put this so I'll put this in here, but the Sox have reached an agreement with Gio Gonzalez. He will get an $850,000 signing bonus and a college fund which will pay for his tuition if he chooses to attend college.

Thanks for posting this, that's great news. And Lumsden's comments are promising (yesterday, some reports suggested that he may return to Clemson). Nothing against Clemson, but I can't wait to see him in a better-looking cap. :smile:

mcfish
06-08-2004, 12:15 PM
Caleb Cooper - 3B from Cal State goes to White Sox in the 19th round.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 12:15 PM
Sox select Caleb Cooper (sp?)

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 12:17 PM
First big name to go is Marc Cornell out of Ohio University to the Rangers. He had a rough year, but he is a Senior, so you may as well draft him.

And the Sox begin by taking a college third baseman, Caleb Cooper out of Cal State-Hayward. His numbers:
162 ABs, .340/.451/.747.

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 12:18 PM
And the Cubs take Micah Owings. Doubt he'll sign.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
And the Cubs take Micah Owings. Doubt he'll sign.

Could be a real steal if he does, but I doubt it as well.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
Could be a real steal if he does, but I doubt it as well.

Cubs won't likely be allowed to deviate that much from the norm in terms of bonus money, otherwise guys like Veal, Hodges, and Moviel would be in A-ball right now.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
By the way Randar, nice call. I think you were one of the few people that thought he would sign quickly. Sox always seem to do an extremely good job of figuring out whether a guy is going to sign with him or not. In this case, the Sox already had a pre-draft deal and I think they got him at a fair price. It also sounds like Lumsden and some of their others are going to sign fairly quickly.

Jason, I highly doubt Gonzalez will pitch in Kannapolis until late in the season, if at all. The Sox will start him at Great Falls or Bristol and move him up if necessary. I'm sure they'd rather have him in Bristol in proximity to a majority of their roving instructional staff. A bunch of these college guys will likely go to Kannapolis, though.

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Don't know where to put this so I'll put this in here, but the Sox have reached an agreement with Gio Gonzalez. He will get an $850,000 signing bonus and a college fund which will pay for his tuition if he chooses to attend college.

He's expected to sign on Friday and will be sent to Arizona. After that its likely that he will be joining Kannapolis.

More of the Story (http://www.futuresox.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=399&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0)

By the way Randar, nice call. I think you were one of the few people that thought he would sign quickly. Sox always seem to do an extremely good job of figuring out whether a guy is going to sign with him or not. In this case, the Sox already had a pre-draft deal and I think they got him at a fair price. It also sounds like Lumsden and some of their others are going to sign fairly quickly.

With a $850,000 bonus, does one really need a college fund?

mcfish
06-08-2004, 12:25 PM
Anaheim just made a correction on their last pick to name him a catcher. Why do they need to do this? They have the rights to him either way, right? Is there different money involved for different positions? I can't imagine the player has to play the position he's listed as.

Also, why do they have to mention when a guy is a "redraft?"

Randar68
06-08-2004, 12:30 PM
Bradley Clapp, one of the best players left on the board, went to Pittsburg, but he will attend college (Washington State)

From the BA draft blog:

Cornell was in the running to go No. 1 overall last year to the Devil Rays after flashing a fastball that reached 98 mph, but repeated elbow problems limited him to 19 innings this season, and he fell to the 19th round.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 12:36 PM
Sox round 20: Michael Dubee, RHP RIVERVIEW HS

Sox round 21: Brian Flores, LHP Carlsbad HS in New Mexico

Hangar18
06-08-2004, 12:37 PM
Thanks for that Link ChiSoxFn, thats a cool site too.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 20: Michael Dubee, RHP RIVERVIEW HS

Sox round 21: Brian Flores, LHP Carlsbad HS in New Mexico

BA snippett on Flores: Brian Flores flashed a quick arm and touched 91,

Fungo
06-08-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 20: Michael Dubee, RHP RIVERVIEW HS

Sox round 21: Brian Flores, LHP Carlsbad HS in New Mexico

Dubee comes from a solid High school program and Flores is a lhp who throws in the low 90's.

Another southern Florida kid for ya' Randar.

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 20: Michael Dubee, RHP RIVERVIEW HS


All we need to do now is trade for Brandon Puffer and Jung Bong. Think of the promotions our marketing team can come up with...

Randar68
06-08-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
Another southern Florida kid for ya' Randar.

Yep, the Sox don't spend many High picks on Florida, but they do a good job of finding the diamonds in the rough and guys who nobody else knew about yet produce, at least on the minor league level, something pretty rare for picks in the teens and later.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
All we need to do now is trade for Brandon Puffer and Jung Bong. Think of the promotions our marketing team can come up with...

I'm in

mcfish
06-08-2004, 12:45 PM
Sox round 22: Matthew Mansilla, SS American Heritage HS in, where else? Florida.

Sox round 23: Derrick McNeil, SS St. Leo University in Florida.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 12:46 PM
Gotta run for a couple hours, keep up the good work, folks.

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
First big name to go is Marc Cornell out of Ohio University to the Rangers. He had a rough year, but he is a Senior, so you may as well draft him.

And the Sox begin by taking a college third baseman, Caleb Cooper out of Cal State-Hayward. His numbers:
162 ABs, .340/.451/.747.
Shows good power too. I tried finding his stats for the summer league team he played with last year, but wasn't able to dig them up. He set school records with 17 HR's and 72 RBI this past season and was also named to the First Team NCAA Division III All West Team. His team ended up having a winning record, but lost in the Division III playoffs.

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 12:55 PM
23. Derrik McNeil - SS - St. Leo High School (Missouri)

Fungo
06-08-2004, 12:57 PM
Gotta run for a while as well. Damn lunch meeting.

soxtalker
06-08-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Don't know where to put this so I'll put this in here, but the Sox have reached an agreement with Gio Gonzalez. He will get an $850,000 signing bonus and a college fund which will pay for his tuition if he chooses to attend college.

He's expected to sign on Friday and will be sent to Arizona. After that its likely that he will be joining Kannapolis.

More of the Story (http://www.futuresox.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=399&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0)

By the way Randar, nice call. I think you were one of the few people that thought he would sign quickly. Sox always seem to do an extremely good job of figuring out whether a guy is going to sign with him or not. In this case, the Sox already had a pre-draft deal and I think they got him at a fair price. It also sounds like Lumsden and some of their others are going to sign fairly quickly.

The article makes an interesting point regarding the A and AA teams in our system. These signings allow them to promote pitchers from Kannapolis to Winston-Salem.

And that's an interesting comment about the Sox doing a good job signing their prospects. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago after we burned a top draft pick with Bobbie Hill. (I'm saying we should have signed him. I -- and I'm sure the management -- wish that we'd drafted someone else.)

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
Gotta run for a while as well. Damn lunch meeting.
I'm off too, lousy summer school. :whiner:

mendozaln
06-08-2004, 12:58 PM
I think the Diamondbacks said their 22nd round pick (Luis Lajara, no school) is from Santo Domingo (in the Dominican Republic, I presume). Are foreign players ever included in the draft? Did I hear this incorrectly?

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
23. Derrik McNeil - SS - St. Leo High School (Missouri)

Actually, I'm pretty sure this guy plays for St. Leo University in Florida.

Anyway, here are his college numbers, if in fact this is the Derrick McNeil I'm talking about:
160 ABs, .256/.324/.537. Sox seem to be taking guys with a bit of pop in their bats.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Actually, I'm pretty sure this guy plays for St. Leo University in Florida.

Anyway, here are his college numbers, if in fact this is the Derrick McNeil I'm talking about:
160 ABs, .256/.324/.537. Sox seem to be taking guys with a bit of pop in their bats.

It is the same guy.

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Actually, I'm pretty sure this guy plays for St. Leo University in Florida.

Anyway, here are his college numbers, if in fact this is the Derrick McNeil I'm talking about:
160 ABs, .256/.324/.537. Sox seem to be taking guys with a bit of pop in their bats.
Your right. I heard them say St. Louis aftwards and assumed that was where the high school was.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 01:05 PM
Sox round 24: Joshua Hanson, C, University of San Diego

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 01:05 PM
Mansilla was rated as the 32 best high school middle infielder by Team One Baseball.

Notes: Mansilla has good hands and defensive skills for shortstop. Also has pro upside with the bat.

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by mendozaln
I think the Diamondbacks said their 22nd round pick (Luis Lajara, no school) is from Santo Domingo (in the Dominican Republic, I presume). Are foreign players ever included in the draft? Did I hear this incorrectly?

Foreign players (except for those in Canada) are not eligible for this draft. Is there a city named Santo Domingo located somewhere in the United States?

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 24: Joshua Hanson, C, University of San Diego

Here are Hanson's stats from the Toreros' 2004 season:
.369/.457/.491.

I think San Deigo University is one of two Jesuits colleges in California.

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 01:09 PM
Josh Hansen - C - University of San Diego

2003 All-WCC First Team outfielder

Late inning go-ahead homeruns allowed USD the WCC West Title & WCC Championship

Hit 20 doubles in 2003, 3rd highest season total in USD school history

Led USD in HR, RBI, 2B & slugging % during WCC play

Named the WCC Player of the Week (6-12-03)

Led USD in HR, RBI, 2B & slugging % during WCC play



Junior in 2003: No player made more of a dramatic impact on San Diego’s WCC Championship team of 2003… Down the stretch and into the WCC Championship Series, a total of eight games, Hansen was 16-of-32 (.500 BA) drove in 17 runs and hit five homers… Was named the WCC Player of the Week (6-12-03) for his outstanding play at Portland in the final series of the regular season… Hit a go-ahead three-run homer with two-outs in the ninth inning during USD’s Saturday game with the Pilots (5-10-03), helping San Diego clinch the WCC West Division title… One week later at Pepperdine (5-25-03), with USD’s season and the league championship on the line (USD trailed 1-0 in the eighth inning of game three of the WCC Championship Series) Hansen hit a go-ahead two-run shot that clinched the 2003 WCC Championship… Posted a batting average of .363 in league play… Hit 20 doubles in 2003, 3rd highest season total in USD school history… Led USD in most power numbers over all 29 WCC games, 32 RBI’s, 7 HR’s, 15 2B’s and a .681 slugging %... Enjoyed a nine-game hitting streak from April 5-April 19, then went on a 10-game hitting streak from May 4-May 31…Had 15 multi-hit games, 10 with three or more hits tied a team-high… Had 12 multi-RBI games, eight with three or more RBI was a team-best… Started in 57 games on the year, 37 in left field, 14 at catcher and 6 as the DH… Hit in a career-high five RBI against Portland (5-10-03)… Went 3-for-4 with two homers, a double and four RBI vs. Loyola Marymount (5-4-03)… Registered a career-high five hits, going 5-for-6, with three doubles and four RBI against St. Mary’s (4-19-03)… Tripled and homered, going 3-for-4 with three RBI at Texas Tech (2-9-03)… Posted a .309 batting average on the season, hit 20 doubles, nine homers, and drove in 48 RBI.

College/Prep: Originally attended Wake Forest then Cypress College in the Los Angeles area… Named first team All-Orange Empire at Cypress as a sophomore… Hit .388 (11th best in the OEC) in 2002… Attended Mater Dei High School as a prep… Hit over .300 for three consecutive seasons… Belted 12 homers and was named MVP of the South Coast Conference as a senior… All-State and All-County selection as prep senior.

Personal: Born on September 16, 1982 in Westminster, California… Communications major and business minor… Son of Bob and Susan Hansen of Irvine.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 01:14 PM
Sox round 25: Justin Sincock, RHP, Millikin HS in California

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 01:16 PM
This one goes out to the Angels' 25th-round pick, Casey Mudder (http://www.berrysmediahut.com/seinfeld/wavhtm/mudderwa.htm).

Chisoxfn
06-08-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 25: Justin Sincok?, RHP, Millikin HS in California
The guy is 6'9...the Sox are taking some beasts.

jabrch
06-08-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
The guy is 6'9...the Sox are taking some beasts.

I think the equipment folks might have some extra jerseys that would fit him! Rauch won't be needing his any time soon.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 01:39 PM
Sox round 26: Daniel Jordan 3B Gulliver Prep - Miami Fl. Sounded like Ozzie made the call. I had to listen to the repeat to get the High School right.

SEALgep
06-08-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
The guy is 6'9...the Sox are taking some beasts. John Rauch's replacement. :D:

MRKARNO
06-08-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Jason, I highly doubt Gonzalez will pitch in Kannapolis until late in the season, if at all. The Sox will start him at Great Falls or Bristol and move him up if necessary. I'm sure they'd rather have him in Bristol in proximity to a majority of their roving instructional staff. A bunch of these college guys will likely go to Kannapolis, though.

I know I pointed this out to you earlier, but the WHite Sox drafting people forgot to turn off their speakerphone thing after they took Gonzalez and overheard was a conversation to the effect of:

Person A: He's good enough to go to Kannapolis already

Person B: Definately

I think that's where he'll start.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 01:59 PM
Sox round 27: redraft Logan Williamson, LHP, Pensicolla Junior College

Sox round 28: redraft Gregory Young, CF, Delaware Tech Community College

Sox round 29: Frank Viola, RHP, Florida Community College. Son of MLB pitcher Frank Viola.

Sox round 30: Matthew Zaleski, RHP, Indiana State University

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 02:00 PM
FWIW, the Sox have taken to Randar's prediction and taken two JuCo players in the past two rounds. Didn't catch the names, but one is from Florida and one from Delaware.

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 02:05 PM
Very cool to see a player out of the Ohio Athletic Conference (Division III) go in the draft (Adam Brandt out of Otterbein in round 28). I went to an OAC school (John Carroll); I'd like to see Luke Adkins drafted. He was arguably the best pitcher in the OAC. Better than Brandt, at least.

MarkEdward
06-08-2004, 02:14 PM
Sox take Frank Viola's (http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/violafr01.shtml) son, Frank, in the 29th round out of Florida Community College.

With that, I'm out. I'll check back in later.

jabrch
06-08-2004, 02:37 PM
As far as Twins players go, I was a huge fan of Frankie V. Once he left Minnestoa, he became one of my favorite non-sox players. I hope V Jr. is as tough a competitor as his father was. For a long time, V was as dominating and durable a lefty as there was in the AL.

I'd love to some day get a Viola Sox jersey. That would be cool.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Foreign players (except for those in Canada) are not eligible for this draft. Is there a city named Santo Domingo located somewhere in the United States?

Except for US "provinces" such as Puerto Rico or the US Virgin Islands.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 03:01 PM
Sox round 31: Nichols Walters, LHP, Mountain Range HS

Sox round 32: Erik Sheridan, RHP, Saddleback Junior College, CA

Sox round 33: Brandon Cooney, RHP, Brower Junior College in Florida.

LA took a RHP named Koch in the 31st round. We have an idea what that can be like.

The Giants next pick will be the 1000th player picked in the draft.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 27: redraft Logan Williamson, LHP, Pensicolla Junior College

Sox round 28: redraft Gregory Young, CF, Delaware Tech Community College

Sox round 29: Frank Viola, RHP, Florida Community College. Son of MLB pitcher Frank Viola.

Sox round 30: Matthew Zaleski, RHP, Indiana State University

RHP Mike Zaleski is Indiana State's best prospect. He goes right at hitters with three pitches he can throw for strikes, including a fastball in the high 80s. Play in the Missouri Valley Conference which is solid.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Except for US "provinces" such as Puerto Rico or the US Virgin Islands.

How'd you like to attend Puerto Rico Baseball Academy? That school sounds alright to me.

First period - Baseball
Second period - Baseball
Third period - Baseball
etc.
etc.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
How'd you like to attend Puerto Rico Baseball Academy? That school sounds alright to me.

First period - Baseball
Second period - Baseball
Third period - Baseball
etc.
etc.

"I'm tired of baseball. When do we get to learn long division?"

Randar68
06-08-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
"I'm tired of baseball. When do we get to learn long division?"

LOL.

What do you think some of the "Prep Schools" here in the US are like for Hoops? This is in our own back yard. Oak Hill? Amare Stoudamire went to about 3 or 4 of these super-shady places.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 03:22 PM
Sox round 34: Mario Suarez, 3B, Florida International University. Ozzie picked again, and the guy confirming the picks almost gave us Stephen Suarez.

Sox round 35: Evan Tartaglia, CF, Elan College

Fungo
06-08-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 35: Evan Tartaglia, CF, Elan College

http://www.elon.edu/athletics/profile.asp?id=1433&sport=bb

Fungo
06-08-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
LOL.

What do you think some of the "Prep Schools" here in the US are like for Hoops? This is in our own back yard. Oak Hill? Amare Stoudamire went to about 3 or 4 of these super-shady places.

There's a kid from Gary Indiana that is transferring down to Oak Hill. Tyrone Appleton is the name, very solid defense. Slasher who needs to work on an outside shot. He'll be focusing on academics there as well.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
There's a kid from Gary Indiana that is transferring down to Oak Hill. Tyrone Appleton is the name, very solid defense. Slasher who needs to work on an outside shot. He'll be focusing on academics there as well.

As will Illinois committment David Palmer, a 6'8" PF.

Fungo
06-08-2004, 03:45 PM
We just drafted Kenny Williams son from Plainfiled HS

SEALgep
06-08-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
We just drafted Kenny Williams son from Plainfiled HS As a player or an assistant GM? :D:

jabrch
06-08-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Fungo
We just drafted Kenny Williams son from Plainfiled HS

Are you serious? Is he a legit prospect?

Maybe he can go play with Schuler's daughter and swap stories about their baseball careers?

or LaSorda's nephew for that matter

Randar68
06-08-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Are you serious? Is he a legit prospect?

Maybe he can go play with Schuler's daughter and swap stories about their baseball careers?

or LaSorda's nephew for that matter

Or Anthony Manual or Josh Crede or Josh Paul's little brother or Duane Shaffer's son...

It's a long list.

TaylorStSox
06-08-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
As will Illinois committment David Palmer, a 6'8" PF.


And future Illinois recruit Justin Dentmon.

The only thing that almost parallels my love for the Sox is my love for Illinois basketball.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
And future Illinois recruit Justin Dentmon.

The only thing that almost parallels my love for the Sox is my love for Illinois basketball.

Dentmon isn't going to Oak Hill, but he will prep a year before going to Illinois. If Marcus Arnold transfers to Illinois also, you had better be careful walking around Bloomington in Illini gear, lol!

jabrch
06-08-2004, 04:10 PM
Is KW's kid actually a prospect? He is a HS senior - is he going to go to college - or go to the minors? Or is he just a burnt pick?

Randar68
06-08-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Is KW's kid actually a prospect? He is a HS senior - is he going to go to college - or go to the minors? Or is he just a burnt pick?

Probably not going to be signed, although IIRC, he is on Plainfield's baseball team. Sometimes they do this to get press for the kids of team employees to get them into JuCo baseball or to get scholarships...

mcfish
06-08-2004, 04:15 PM
Sox round 36: Kenneth Williams, CF, Plainfield High School.

Sox round 37: Robert Grinestaff, C, Okaloosa Wlaton Community College

Sox round 38: Shaun Spearman, SS, St. Pious High School, Atlanta, GA.

Sox round 39: James Lee, LHP, Bryant Hight School, Arkansas

Sox round 40: Justin Rollie, LHP, Iowa Western Community College

Randar68
06-08-2004, 04:16 PM
Sox redrafted Robbie Grinestaff out of Oskaloosa CC in Florida (same school as Neil Giesler), where they have drafted quite a few kids in the past, have a good relationship with the staff there and steer HS kids there on occassion. They drafted him out of Jeffersonville HS in Jeffersonville, Indiana last year in the 31st round.

Power hitting catcher/IF'er.

TaylorStSox
06-08-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Dentmon isn't going to Oak Hill, but he will prep a year before going to Illinois. If Marcus Arnold transfers to Illinois also, you had better be careful walking around Bloomington in Illini gear, lol!


It's pretty bizaare about Bloomington. I thought Dentmon was going to Oak Hill. But it's prep school all the same.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Sox redrafted Robbie Grinestaff out of Oskaloosa CC in Florida (same school as Neil Giesler), where they have drafted quite a few kids in the past, have a good relationship with the staff there and steer HS kids there on occassion. They drafted him out of Jeffersonville HS in Jeffersonville, Indiana last year in the 31st round.

Power hitting catcher/IF'er.

He went down 6 rounds. Do you think that has a large affect on morale/signability?

Randar68
06-08-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
He went down 6 rounds. Do you think that has a large affect on morale/signability?

Nah. He was comitted to go to Xavier but never went for some reason, instead going to CC. He was only a freshman this year down there and played well. The Sox will likely follow him again this year, so we'll see how he does in 2005 before they worry about signing him, in all likelihood...

Jjav829
06-08-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 36: Kenneth Williams, CF, Plainfield High School.


Move over Brian Anderson! Your replacement is here! :D:

Randar68
06-08-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Sox round 39: James Lee, LHP, Bryant Hight School, Arkansas

Sox round 40: Justin Rollie, LHP, Iowa Western Community College

39) James Leigh, 6'4" LHP, Bryant Hight School, Arkansas
40) Justin Roelle, 6'4" LHP, Iowa Western Community College
41) Matt Rozier, 6'1" RHP, Meridian CC
42) Michael Schower, 6'2" LHP, Riverview HS (same as Dubee)
43) Ian Murray, 6'5" RHP, Jefferson College
44) Steven Muck, 6'5" RHP, Covington Catholic HS
45) Jason Sullivan, 6'4" RHP, Crowder JC *REDRAFT*
46) Jason Rodriguez, 6'0" SS, Alta Lomo HS

Van (Paul) Pope, Sox 2003 draftee and one of the top unsigned DFE players returning to the draft, was taken by Atlanta in the 5th round out of Meridian CC.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:18 PM
47) Richard O'Brien, C. He's a redraft from last year, when the Sox took him in the 47th round last year out of Arkansas HS.

mcfish
06-08-2004, 06:23 PM
44: STEVEN MUCK COVINGTON CATHOLIC HS RHP
45: JASON SULLIVAN CROWDER JC RHP
46: JASON RODRIGUEZ ALTA LOMA HS SS
47: RICHARD O'BRIEN NO SCHOOL C

And with that, I'm gonna have to be done if I want to make it to The Cell in time for the first interleague game of the year. I hope some of these guys can win some games for us in the future.

mcfish

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
I hope some of these guys can win some games for us in the future.


Amen to that, thanks for helping keep us up to date today. :gulp:

Bring home a White Sox Winner!

mendozaln
06-08-2004, 06:27 PM
Oakland started passing in round 41. Why would anyone do that? What's the harm in taking draft-and-follows?

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:27 PM
48) Peter Vuckovich, C, Clarion University

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by mendozaln
Oakland started passing in round 41. Why would anyone do that? What's the harm in taking draft-and-follows?

Maybe the A's can't afford to do the book-keeping?

I don't know, but I'm sure some stathead like DaDawg will tell us how dumb and ignorant we are about Beane and how this whole thing was described in detail in "Moneyball" if we'd learn how to read Hebrew so we can read the text in its original language.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:42 PM
Last 2 picks of the draft:

49) Dennis Guest, 2B, St. Joseph College
50) Bryan Wagner, 5'10" RHP, Thunderbird HS

Daver
06-08-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Are you serious? Is he a legit prospect?

Maybe he can go play with Schuler's daughter and swap stories about their baseball careers?

or LaSorda's nephew for that matter

I saw Kenneth play against Providence this year, he can play, but I would tend to think he would be offered a scholarship, this is more likely an attempt to increase interest with colleges for scholarship offers.

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Maybe the A's can't afford to do the book-keeping?

I don't know, but I'm sure some stathead like DaDawg will tell us how dumb and ignorant we are about Beane and how this whole thing was described in detail in "Moneyball" if we'd learn how to read Hebrew so we can read the text in its original language.

lol, I am just tired of all the hating of Beane on the board. It get tiresome when a guy who produces teams that win, gets ripped on for no reason other then some question a non winning GM. Some of it form some is due that they have no understanding of the theory behind it all.

As for the passing, the easiest answer, with out the snide comment, is Oakland reached it budget and won't sign any more players so why draft them.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
As for the passing, the easiest answer, with out the snide comment, is Oakland reached it budget and won't sign any more players so why draft them.

And they already know that it won't be in next year's budget to sign any DFE, no matter how good?

Is it any wonder stat-heads come off like elitist a-holes, as does Beane, when Baseball Prospectus posts article after article around draft day, going "Ohhhhh, why bother, it's a crap-shoot" or the one on the top of the main page today that generally mocks the whole process and takes clear jabs at anyone who uses tools to evaluate prospects.

Just don't give me the "we're a persecuted and mis-understood group" bull.

TaylorStSox
06-08-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
lol, I am just tired of all the hating of Beane on the board. It get tiresome when a guy who produces teams that win, gets ripped on for no reason other then some question a non winning GM. Some of it form some is due that they have no understanding of the theory behind it all.

As for the passing, the easiest answer, with out the snide comment, is Oakland reached it budget and won't sign any more players so why draft them.

Beane gets ripped because of people's blind faith in his policies. Also, for his egotistic book proclaiming him to be the greatest thing to ever happen to baseball management.

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
And they already know that it won't be in next year's budget to sign any DFE?

It's any wonder stat-heads come off like elitist a-holes, as does Beane, when Baseball Prospectus posts article after article around draft day, going "Ohhhhh, why bother, it's a crap-shoot" or the one on the top of the main page today that generally mocks the whole process and takes clear jabs at anyone who uses tools to evaluate prospects.

Just don't give me the "we're a persecuted and mis-understood group" bull.

No it just when tools guys get question they respond by trying to belittle the questioner, not by defending nor answering the question. That is elitism at its finest.

The draft is a crap shoot in the fact that team will have a good draft if two guys become respectable major leaguers from the draft out of 50+ drafted players. That is why you can't evaluate the draft till at least several years after the draft occurred. Where as basketball and football you can evaluate a year afterwords. For the all print BA and others do to rate the draft, it is speculation at best. No one truly knows who drafted well and who didn't at this moment. You can have opinions, but those opinions are based in speculation not hard cold facts.

When it comes to the draft, if you use tools alone you are setting yourself up for failure. And if you are using stats alone you are setting yourself for failure. What it seems is tools base evaluators have a tough time giving any credit to what stats analyst can provide.

As for the article it was a joke, but I can see how someone could be offend by it. If you read the five other articles on the draft, you would find more complete picture of the view on the draft.

maurice
06-08-2004, 07:21 PM
I don't think anybody here thinks Beane is a terrible GM. That would be even more irrational than claiming KW is a terrible GM.

IMHO, the backlash against Beane here is caused by, among other things: (1) Lewis' hyperbolic hagiography; (2) a few of Beane's pompus statements; and (3) a minority of posters who misunderstand Beane's basic approach, make ridiculous claims falsely attibuted to Beane, and go ape**** when somebody presents a conflictng viewpoint or indicates that maybe Beane might have made a mistake once or twice.

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Beane gets ripped because of people's blind faith in his policies. Also, for his egotistic book proclaiming him to be the greatest thing to ever happen to baseball management.

It wasn't his book, but a book written by an outside author. Lewis, the author, was attracted to Oakland story because it went against everything Commissioner and other powers of baseball were saying about baseball. Here was a small market team with a different view point, consistently winning 90+ games a year. You can't do that with just three pitchers.

It isn't blind faith but looking at evidence and deciding you think Beane and crew are on to something. Blind faith is believing something just because tradition says it is that way and it can't be questioned.

FarWestChicago
06-08-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
It isn't blind faith but looking at evidence and deciding you think Beane and crew are on to something. Blind faith is believing something just because tradition says it is that way and it can't be questioned. It's blind faith to believe a human isn't capable of error. It's blind faith to claim any error that human has made is just "bad luck". It's logical to think Beane is an excellent GM. There is a line there. :smile:

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I don't think anybody here thinks Beane is a terrible GM. That would be even more irrational than claiming KW is a terrible GM.

IMHO, the backlash against Beane here is caused by, among other things: (1) Lewis' hyperbolic hagiography; (2) a few of Beane's pompus statements; and (3) a minority of posters who misunderstand Beane's basic approach, make ridiculous claims falsely attibuted to Beane, and go ape**** when somebody presents a conflictng viewpoint.

Beane's basic approach is production is more valuable then potential. OBP is best way to find ones value of production. With very finite resources one need to conserve ones resources in building a team. Thus you don't consider speed as much since it isn't as valuable as OBP, but more expensive. You also look for players who may not fit the traditional type but are productive since they were be cheaper then the traditional type.

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
It's blind faith to believe a human isn't capable of error. It's blind faith to claim any error that human has made is just "bad luck". It's logical to think Beane is an excellent GM. There is a line there. :smile:

The bad luck argument is about the playoffs. The Tampa Bay Devil rays killed the Yankees in the opening series of the year. No one reasonably thought that Rays could even hold a candle to the Yankees. In a five or seven game series between evenly and unevenly matched teams, anything can happen

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 07:31 PM
I would like to note for the record that I didn't intend to jack this thread but felt I had to respond to being called out by Randar.

FarWestChicago
06-08-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The bad luck argument is about the playoffs. The Tampa Bay Devil rays killed the Yankees in the opening series of the year. No one reasonably thought that Rays could even hold a candle to the Yankees. In a five or seven game series between evenly and unevenly matched teams, anything can happen No, it's been used by some of your brethren to explain any players who didn't perform up to expectations also. And the converse has been rampant. If Kenny gets a guy who performs, it's just "good luck".

Randar68
06-08-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
No it just when tools guys get question they respond by trying to belittle the questioner, not by defending nor answering the question. That is elitism at its finest.


actually, IMO, when tools guys get questioned about a prospect, they give their analysis of the player in question, stat-heads want something more concrete than observational data, going so far as to often times call it "invalid", then after being belittled for "observational data" that isn't evident to said stat-heads in stats, tools guys get frustrated and resort to belittling people for not recognizing what is so apparent to them just watching...

Then stat-guys belittle person, and low and behold, Aaron Rowand sucks in the field. :D:

Seriously, though, it's like a cult and the blind faith it's defended with is what makes it so unpalatable.

Randar68
06-08-2004, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I would like to note for the record that I didn't intend to jack this thread but felt I had to respond to being called out by Randar.

yeah, I was, kinda, and the thread did get a little hijacked. Any mod want to move this part of it to a new thread?

Daver
06-08-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
yeah, I was, kinda, and the thread did get a little hijacked. Any mod want to move this part of it to a new thread?

No, it is a pain in the ass.


:)

Fungo
06-08-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
44: STEVEN MUCK COVINGTON CATHOLIC HS RHP
45: JASON SULLIVAN CROWDER JC RHP
46: JASON RODRIGUEZ ALTA LOMA HS SS
47: RICHARD O'BRIEN NO SCHOOL C

And with that, I'm gonna have to be done if I want to make it to The Cell in time for the first interleague game of the year. I hope some of these guys can win some games for us in the future.

mcfish

Nice jobs today mcfish. Way to hold down to fort with a few of us missing. Kudos to all that chipped in during the 2 days of the draft. Keeping up with those rapid fire names and trying to find information on them isn't easy.

Go Sox !

mcfish
06-09-2004, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Fungo
Nice jobs today mcfish. Way to hold down to fort with a few of us missing. Kudos to all that chipped in during the 2 days of the draft. Keeping up with those rapid fire names and trying to find information on them isn't easy.

Go Sox !

Happy to help. Just got back from an interesting game. How many times does a team score 11 runs and lose?

Looks like we went almost exclusively with pitching today, and a a good number of them will be DFE, as predicted by Randar. Did anyone see a player they recognized today (besides KW's and the car dealer post game advertiser's sons) picked by the Sox that they thought might be a good addition to the team down the road. I know it's tough, if not impossible, to tell, but maybe someone saw something they liked. And my two questions from the first page of the thread still stand if anyone can answer them without too much trouble.

Fungo
06-09-2004, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Last 2 picks of the draft:

49) Dennis Guest, 2B, St. Joseph College
50) Bryan Wagner, 5'10" RHP, Thunderbird HS

Originally posted by mcfish
Did anyone see a player they recognized today (besides KW's and the car dealer post game advertiser's sons) picked by the Sox that they thought might be a good addition to the team down the road.

That is funny. I read this in the paper this morning...
Garrett Guest, a senior middle infielder from St. Joseph's College, was picked by the Sox in the 49th round of the first-year player draft. Guest batted .294 with no homers and 24 RBIs for the Pumas this spring.

My first thought was 'this had to be a favor for somebody'. Then I saw his name listed here as 'Dennis Guest' & now your post about 'the car dealer post game advertiser's sons'.

Randar68
06-09-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by mcfish
And my two questions from the first page of the thread still stand if anyone can answer them without too much trouble.

Can you repost them? You had a few posts with more than a couple questions on the first page. We'll see what we can do...

mcfish
06-09-2004, 11:25 AM
Is there a ton of talent playing JuCo baseball instead of at 4 year universities because of the DFE rule? Knowing that it would help their chances of being drafted for 2 years (late round better than no round for some), I would think some kids are choosing to go to JuCo for that reason alone. Does this hurt NCAA baseball?


Anaheim just made a correction on their last pick to name him a catcher. Why do they need to do this? They have the rights to him either way, right? Is there different money involved for different positions? I can't imagine the player has to play the position he's listed as.


Those were them - I trimmed the first one a little. I only asked the first when I did because I thought I had an hour before the draft started and I was sparking conversation, but I still am wondering about it. I guess it's a lot of question marks, but I was treating them as 1 question each.

Randar68
06-09-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by mcfish
Is there a ton of talent playing JuCo baseball instead of at 4 year universities because of the DFE rule? Knowing that it would help their chances of being drafted for 2 years (late round better than no round for some), I would think some kids are choosing to go to JuCo for that reason alone. Does this hurt NCAA baseball?

Well, especially the Florida and Cali JuCo's, they attract lot's of HS talent from around the country that can't get into school (baseball players aren't exactly known for their cranial capabilities) or couldn't get a D-I schollie and JuCo allows them to play right away, get experience, and either use that to launch them into the draft or to a major D-I school as a So. or Jr.

Some top players use it as a tool like Adam Loewen did, to go to JuCo instead of D-1 college allowing them to be drafted right-away the next year instead of having to wait. It is a calculated risk and it isn't done intentionally that way all that often. D-I NCAA baseball isn't too hurt by the JuCo's, IMO, and the level of competition over the past 10 years has actually gradually improved in the NCAA IMO, now becoming comparable to High-A level in the major conferences...


Originally posted by mcfish
Anaheim just made a correction on their last pick to name him a catcher. Why do they need to do this? They have the rights to him either way, right? Is there different money involved for different positions? I can't imagine the player has to play the position he's listed as.

It's primarily semantics. The money is no different, and it's just a book-keeping tact. Late in the draft it may be trying to gain attention for some kid as a favor, etc etc, but primarily, there is no functional reason for it.

mcfish
06-09-2004, 12:21 PM
Thanks! I also found it interesting that the teams would mention any and all ties a drafted player has to baseball. "This player that we are drafting in the 38th round is the long lost nephew of the spring training conditioning coach of the Charlotte Knights."