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otis
06-07-2004, 06:47 PM
I stand by my previous statement of the White Sox wishlist being Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and Freddy Garcia. Since the last post, nothing much has changed. My source has told me to expect a trade sooner than later. He said that the Sox haven't promoted Reed or Borchard because he expects one of them to go in a trade. As he put it, with Magglio's impending free agency the White Sox need to bring up one of those guys to see if either would be a viable replacement. It doesn't make baseball sense to leave these guys in the minors when the baseball world thinks both are major league ready. Bringing either up now has more of a chance to hurt their value than increase it. If either were to be promoted and stuggle their value is shot. Also, what if one of these guys comes up and goes crazy. Sure, the trade value goes up, but how does KW sell it to you the White Sox fan that he is trading away a major league star. It was pointed out to me that a team like the White Sox can't afford a PR nightmare like this. The fact that KW is going out of his way to say Joe Borchard is untouchable, only means he is driving his price up. The Sox (White & Red) are sending a scout to Anaheim to watch Sheet's start this week. Word on the street is Kenny will pull the trigger on a trade for a starting pitcher in the next two weeks and promote the remaing player (Reed or Borchard). After that, expect him to acquire a reliver around the deadline.

SOXintheBURGH
06-07-2004, 06:49 PM
Very good news indeed.

Paulwny
06-07-2004, 06:52 PM
I hope that reliever is a legit closer.

Randar68
06-07-2004, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I hope that reliever is a legit closer.

As do we all... :gulp:

HomerCoach
06-07-2004, 06:54 PM
FYI, Anaheim scouts were at the Syracuse/Charlotte series this past weekend.

dpbyron
06-07-2004, 06:54 PM
Thanks otis!

hsnterprize
06-07-2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by otis
I stand by my previous statement of the White Sox wishlist being Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and Freddy Garcia. Since the last post, nothing much has changed. My source has told me to expect a trade sooner than later. He said that the Sox haven't promoted Reed or Borchard because he expects one of them to go in a trade. As he put it, with Magglio's impending free agency the White Sox need to bring up one of those guys to see if either would be a viable replacement. It doesn't make baseball sense to leave these guys in the minors when the baseball world thinks both are major league ready. Bringing either up now has more of a chance to hurt their value than increase it. If either were to be promoted and stuggle their value is shot. Also, what if one of these guys comes up and goes crazy. Sure, the trade value goes up, but how does KW sell it to you the White Sox fan that he is trading away a major league star. It was pointed out to me that a team like the White Sox can't afford a PR nightmare like this. The fact that KW is going out of his way to say Joe Borchard is untouchable, only means he is driving his price up. The Sox (White & Red) are sending a scout to Anaheim to watch Sheet's start this week. Word on the street is Kenny will pull the trigger on a trade for a starting pitcher in the next two weeks and promote the remaing player (Reed or Borchard). After that, expect him to acquire a reliver around the deadline. Good information. I'll love it even more when KW finally pulls the trigger.

As much as I'd like to rip KW for making stupid deals like the one that brought "Krock" here, I'll have to give him all the credit in the world for at least making an effort to make this team competitive considering who's looming over him. Kenny's a decent GM...not the greatest...but decent. All I as a fan ask is that he put his money where his mouth is, and not only bring in some much needed starting/relief pitching, but to also get rid of Koch. Either eat the $5 million, or do something with him. I don't even want Billy on the roster...he's too much of a bad risk, and I don't want him to ruin the Sox' chances to make the post-season in late-August/early-September.

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the update Otis! Keep us posted!

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2004, 06:59 PM
I just hope that if LTP or Reed goes in trade, that it is not in a deal for Garcia. IMHO, a rent-a-pitcher who has such superior numbers in cavernous Safeco (when compared to "the road") is not worth either Reed or LTP plus Cotts. While Garcia would be a welcome addition, I don't want KW to over-pay.

Randar68
06-07-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
I just hope that if LTP or Reed goes in trade, that it is not in a deal for Garcia. IMHO, a rent-a-pitcher who has such superior numbers in cavernous Safeco (when compared to "the road") is not worth either Reed or LTP plus Cotts. While Garcia would be a welcome addition, I don't want KW to over-pay.

Amen, although remember that if he doesn't resign, he'll bring in 2 high draft-picks, not leaving for nothing, per se...

SEALgep
06-07-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by HomerCoach
FYI, Anaheim scouts were at the Syracuse/Charlotte series this past weekend. Ramon Ortiz as the reliever? Not giving Reed or Borchard for him, but they may have very well been looking at others. Just speculating out loud.

Randar68
06-07-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Ramon Ortiz as the reliever? Not giving Reed or Borchard for him, but they may have very well been looking at others. Just speculating out loud.

Trade for Washburn with Weaver to take his spot?

jeremyb1
06-07-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
I just hope that if LTP or Reed goes in trade, that it is not in a deal for Garcia. IMHO, a rent-a-pitcher who has such superior numbers in cavernous Safeco (when compared to "the road") is not worth either Reed or LTP plus Cotts. While Garcia would be a welcome addition, I don't want KW to over-pay.

Agree particularly on Reed. Reed is going to be an oustanding major leaguer and sooner rather than later so unless we haul in a pitcher along the lines of Sabathia or Sheets, two of the best young starters in the game, we'd be insane to trade him.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Amen, although remember that if he doesn't resign, he'll bring in 2 high draft-picks, not leaving for nothing, per se...

I too think of stockpiling picks as a positive, but I have an irrational fear that LTP or Reed, if traded, will wind up as a star for another team, while Garcia will be a disappointment this season and then be great after signing with another team. I think we're probably in agreement that if LTP or Reed get dealt, that in return the Sox better get a starter who will be a mainstay at the top of the rotation for several years.

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Agree particularly on Reed. Reed is going to be an oustanding major leaguer and sooner rather than later so unless we haul in a pitcher along the lines of Sabathia or Sheets, two of the best young starters in the game, we'd be insane to trade him.

Borchard might be more ready to contribute now than Reed though. I think the development of power by Reed over the past few games is a very encouraging development, though it's hard not to have power in Charlotte in that bandbox. Borchard isn't as special as Reed IMO, but he's still pretty darn good. Better to have Reed probably with Sweeney and Anderson on the way. The way Anderson is progressing, he might be able to be called up a little later next year. Should be AA pretty soon and AAA at the start of next year ala Reed. Might even be ready by June if he gets off to a good start. So I think we can survive pretty well if we get rid of Borchard. Ross Gload is emerging as a decent stop-gap option if we need him to start for a few months.

SEALgep
06-07-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Borchard might be more ready to contribute now than Reed though. I think the development of power by Reed over the past few games is a very encouraging development, though it's hard not to have power in Charlotte in that bandbox. The announcer for Charlotte said Reed's homers were at CF to left center, so his power seems to be for real and not just the result of a band box. Also, the theory that he will develop the power seems more evident lately than ever. The Palmeiro comparisons may not be that far off IMO.

Mohoney
06-07-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Amen, although remember that if he doesn't resign, he'll bring in 2 high draft-picks, not leaving for nothing, per se...

This is why I (I think you do too, Randar, but I'm not positive) prefer Ben Sheets over Garcia. If I have to overpay, I at least want someone who will be here for another two years, and with the steady improvement that Sheets has shown, it looks like we would get two highly productive, if not All-Star caliber, years from him.

It wouldn't be terrible to get the draft pick compensation from a departed Garcia, but I would much rather either re-sign him or target Sheets instead.

As for Sabathia, I can't see Cleveland giving him up unless Kenny Williams absolutely floors them with a huge package. Sabathia and Cliff Lee will be very good #2 and #3 pitchers someday, and I think that Cleveland will go out and trade for an ace in about two years, when the young position players have improved to the point where Cleveland's brass feels like the club can win the division.

Then again, folks in Milwaukee think that their team has good upside, too, and may be unwilling to part with Sheets. Guys like Podsednik, Overbay, Ginter, and Jenkins are showing signs of potential, even if the club as a whole might be playing over their heads right now.

Garcia just might be our only viable option out of the three, and if we can't get Sheets or Sabathia, then I would be fine with Garcia. It's just that I would rather see us get somebody who's guaranteed to be here longer than just 3 or 4 months.

copyhead
06-07-2004, 07:31 PM
indians fan here

good to see you guys are having fun with this, but CC Sabathia, dear friends, is not going to be a White Sock

at least not anytime soon

he's as untouchable as they come in our franchise and we have no need for any quality outfielder you guys are willing to trade us for him with Sizemore and Franklin Gutierrez in the wings

you can all dream, sure, but you're just setting yourselves up for some major disappointment if you hope to have CC in Chicago anytime soon...

anyway, good luck to you guys the rest of the way and best of luck in acquiring the quality pitcher you guys are after!

FarWestChicago
06-07-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by copyhead
good to see you guys are having fun with this, but CC Sabathia, dear friends, is not going to be a White SockWelll nobody is going to be a "White Sock" (other than the user of that name). :smile:

Mohoney
06-07-2004, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by copyhead
indians fan here

good to see you guys are having fun with this, but CC Sabathia, dear friends, is not going to be a White Sock

at least not anytime soon

he's as untouchable as they come in our franchise and we have no need for any quality outfielder you guys are willing to trade us for him with Sizemore and Franklin Gutierrez in the wings

you can all dream, sure, but you're just setting yourselves up for some major disappointment if you hope to have CC in Chicago anytime soon...

anyway, good luck to you guys the rest of the way and best of luck in acquiring the quality pitcher you guys are after!

Grady Sizemore. I forgot to put him in my post. He's definitely another factor that would make Cleveland reluctant to give Sabathia up for a package centered around an OF prospect.

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by copyhead

you can all dream, sure, but you're just setting yourselves up for some major disappointment if you hope to have CC in Chicago anytime soon...

anyway, good luck to you guys the rest of the way and best of luck in acquiring the quality pitcher you guys are after!

We're as surprised as you are that a source who we can rely on such as otis would tell us that Sabathia and Sheets can be had, but this is Milwaukee and Cleveland we're talking about. I know Cleveland had really good prospects and a pretty bright future, but you never do know. I would have also thought that Sabathia is untouchable, as well as Sheets, but maybe the Indians have other plans.

Foulke You
06-07-2004, 07:39 PM
Thanks for the update Otis. Hopefully KW can get this done.

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
The announcer for Charlotte said Reed's homers were at CF to left center, so his power seems to be for real and not just the result of a band box. Also, the theory that he will develop the power seems more evident lately than ever. The Palmeiro comparisons may not be that far off IMO.

Wait, you mean Reed to Palmeiro? I've never heard anything like that. Do you mean Borchard?

SEALgep
06-07-2004, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Wait, you mean Reed to Palmeiro? I've never heard anything like that. Do you mean Borchard? No, I meant Reed. However, that's what rotoworld compared him too, mostly because of his sweet stroke I presume. Remember, Palmeiro wasn't a real big guy when he started in the league and wasn't a huge power threat right off the bat. He developed power because of his nice swing and he gained weight throughout his career. Much like Reed is predicted to do.

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
No, I meant Reed. However, that's what rotoworld compared him too, mostly because of his sweet stroke I presume. Remember, Palmeiro wasn't a real big guy when he started in the league and wasn't a huge power threat right off the bat. He developed power because of his nice swing and he gained weight throughout his career. Much like Reed is predicted to do.

In the first 5 years in the major leagues, Palmeiro hit 3, 14, 8, 8 and 14 Homers in each year respectively. Not exactly a great indication that he was going to become a lock for at least 35 homers for the most part for an 11 year period. In his 6th year he did hit 26, which was the first year he really had any power. Reed might be able to get on base better than Palmeiro though at the early points of their respective careers and also have a better batting average. The best indication of Palmeiro's coming power were the 41 doubles in his 3rd major league season, so we can all watch out for that. He ended up only topping that doubles figure once more in his career.

HomerCoach
06-07-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
The announcer for Charlotte said Reed's homers were at CF to left center, so his power seems to be for real and not just the result of a band box.

The homer he hit in syracuse was about 410 ft to left center. After seeing him, I hope we don't trade Reed. 5 tools, no joke.

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
No, I meant Reed. However, that's what rotoworld compared him too, mostly because of his sweet stroke I presume. Remember, Palmeiro wasn't a real big guy when he started in the league and wasn't a huge power threat right off the bat. He developed power because of his nice swing and he gained weight throughout his career. Much like Reed is predicted to do.


Alright, I see.

I'd rather he stayed skinny, hit .330 with a .420 and steal 30 bases every year.

CWSGuy406
06-07-2004, 08:12 PM
I really don't want to see either Reed or Borchard go. Otis, if you're still reading this thread, is there any validity to the rumblings that Garcia can be had for Rowand/Rauch package, without adding any of the top minor league guys?

Palehose13
06-07-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by copyhead
you can all dream, sure, but you're just setting yourselves up for some major disappointment if you hope to have CC in Chicago anytime soon...

No offense, but of the three mentioned CC is my last choice.

Iguana775
06-07-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by otis
I stand by my previous statement of the White Sox wishlist being Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and Freddy Garcia. Since the last post, nothing much has changed. My source has told me to expect a trade sooner than later. He said that the Sox haven't promoted Reed or Borchard because he expects one of them to go in a trade. As he put it, with Magglio's impending free agency the White Sox need to bring up one of those guys to see if either would be a viable replacement. It doesn't make baseball sense to leave these guys in the minors when the baseball world thinks both are major league ready. Bringing either up now has more of a chance to hurt their value than increase it. If either were to be promoted and stuggle their value is shot. Also, what if one of these guys comes up and goes crazy. Sure, the trade value goes up, but how does KW sell it to you the White Sox fan that he is trading away a major league star. It was pointed out to me that a team like the White Sox can't afford a PR nightmare like this. The fact that KW is going out of his way to say Joe Borchard is untouchable, only means he is driving his price up. The Sox (White & Red) are sending a scout to Anaheim to watch Sheet's start this week. Word on the street is Kenny will pull the trigger on a trade for a starting pitcher in the next two weeks and promote the remaing player (Reed or Borchard). After that, expect him to acquire a reliver around the deadline.

:supernana:

You Da Man, otis!!

maurice
06-07-2004, 08:28 PM
Keep up the good work, otis.

If any of this comes to fruition, we'd be spared from any future "5th starter" threads and media notes. Let's hope it puts an end to all the "our first-place team is doomed" and "KW sucks" threads, also.

Rex Hudler
06-07-2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Wait, you mean Reed to Palmeiro? I've never heard anything like that. Do you mean Borchard?

Reed was compared to a young Rafael Palmeiro many times last year. Palmeiro had very little power early in his career. The lack of power is the main reason the Cubs gave up on him. There are some definite similarities between the two.

Randar68
06-07-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
No offense, but of the three mentioned CC is my last choice.

No kidding. Can you imagine if he had access to Chicago-style pizza?

:o:

Vernam
06-07-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by otis
I stand by my previous statement of the White Sox wishlist being Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and Freddy Garcia. Since the last post, nothing much has changed. My source has told me to expect a trade sooner than later. He said that the Sox haven't promoted Reed or Borchard because he expects one of them to go in a trade.
I buy this theory. My wife was complaining that they brought up Burke instead of BorchReed, and I said, "No sooner does one of those two come up and go 1-for-35 in the bigs than KW is forced to overpay for their new starter." And I especially like the idea that they're looking for a starter who'll push Schoenweis to fifth, and maybe even Garland to fourth, instead of picking up a -- yuck -- fifth starter. Fingers crossed . . .

Thanks for the info, otis.

VC

CWSGuy406
06-07-2004, 09:29 PM
Sheets is the only pitcher I'd give up Reed to get. Garcia IMO shouldn't require any of our four outfielders (Borchard/Reed/Sweeney/Anderson), Sabathia I'm hesitant on (I've changed my mind on him) because he's in our division.

If we get Benson - we better not give up much more than a Pirates hat and a bag of balls.

If we get Garcia - I suppose I wouldn't mind giving up Borchard, but he's still a three month rental. He wants 10million per year (4 years), and he doesn't deserve that.

DSpivack
06-07-2004, 09:51 PM
Reed is being compared to Palmeiro, but what about Maggs? Didn't he develop power at the latter stages of his minor league career?

Philo-Sox-er
06-07-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by HomerCoach
FYI, Anaheim scouts were at the Syracuse/Charlotte series this past weekend.

Perhaps they will trade Ramon Ortiz who is angry with being in the bullpen and wants to start? Maybe they'll take Koch from us given that Percival just went on the DL?

guillen4life13
06-07-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Philo-Sox-er
Perhaps they will trade Ramon Ortiz who is angry with being in the bullpen and wants to start? Maybe they'll take Koch from us given that Percival just went on the DL?

They need a closer, not a guaranteed blown save machine.

SEALgep
06-07-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Philo-Sox-er
Perhaps they will trade Ramon Ortiz who is angry with being in the bullpen and wants to start? Maybe they'll take Koch from us given that Percival just went on the DL? Where do we sign?

Chrisaway
06-07-2004, 11:59 PM
[i]

If we get Benson - we better not give up much more than a Pirates hat and a bag of balls.

[/B]

how about Billy Koch and a bag of donuts

A. Cavatica
06-08-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Chrisaway
how about Billy Koch and a bag of donuts

They'll do it -- on condition that we keep Koch.

Jerko
06-08-2004, 12:48 AM
I'm still waiting to see how that Maggs/Nomar/LA deal turned out

StillMissOzzie
06-08-2004, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by otis
I stand by my previous statement of the White Sox wishlist being Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and Freddy Garcia.

Sure, the trade value goes up, but how does KW sell it to you the White Sox fan that he is trading away a major league star. It was pointed out to me that a team like the White Sox can't afford a PR nightmare like this. The fact that KW is going out of his way to say Joe Borchard is untouchable, only means he is driving his price up.

It's insights like this that give otis some real credibility in my book, particularly with the Maggs situation being up in the air. As it is, Maggs will barely be playing again before the trading deadline, so whether it's a given or not that the Sox will not re-sign Maggs, I think we will have him for the rest of the year.

SMO

pudge
06-08-2004, 02:58 AM
I think we can all agree it better be Borchard instead of Reed. I'm skeptical of all of this though, honestly. Reed should be untouchable, and he should be up on the club right now, who cares if he starts out 1-35, he shouldn't be trade bait anyway.

crector
06-08-2004, 03:25 AM
Interesting how none of otis's claims ever become reality, yet folks hang on every word he says as if he really knows what he's talking about.

As for Reed, anyone who can hit .400 or better in the minors should be absolutely untouchable.

SSN721
06-08-2004, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by crector
Interesting how none of otis's claims ever become reality, yet folks hang on every word he says as if he really knows what he's talking about.

As for Reed, anyone who can hit .400 or better in the minors should be absolutely untouchable.

I have to disagree with your sentiments about Otis, I have only been here for 8-9 months now, but so far everything that Otis has posted here since then has basis in fact. He told us all about the Nomar deal well before the national media picked up on it and he was right about the details, the deal just fell apart. Cant really say we shouldnt listen because he got the deatails of the deal right and it just fell apart. Its beyond his control. I find what he is saying now quite plausible and am very excited in the possibility of what KW can do. But I agree about Reed. I think unless we get blown out of the water with an offer he is pretty much untouchable.

voodoochile
06-08-2004, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by crector
Interesting how none of otis's claims ever become reality, yet folks hang on every word he says as if he really knows what he's talking about.

As for Reed, anyone who can hit .400 or better in the minors should be absolutely untouchable.

Hey look, it's chuck... What's up, Chuck?

Personally, I'd trade most of the Charlotte squad for a top of the rotation starter and another arm for the pen.

wdelaney72
06-08-2004, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I'm still waiting to see how that Maggs/Nomar/LA deal turned out

Originally posted by crector
Interesting how none of otis's claims ever become reality, yet folks hang on every word he says as if he really knows what he's talking about.

Uh, I think Otis was quite clear that the deal was contingent on A-Rod being traded to Boston. Last I checked, A-Rod went to the evil empire.

Otis' trade rumor was confirmed in the media a week or so after he posted it hear. That's credible enough in my book.

Palehose13
06-08-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Uh, I think Otis was quite clear that the deal was contingent on A-Rod being traded to Boston. Last I checked, A-Rod went to the evil empire.

Otis' trade rumor was confirmed in the media a week or so after he posted it hear. That's credible enough in my book.

Yup. otis broke that Maggs would be involved in a ARod/Manny trade way before the media did. That credible enough for me.

Realist
06-08-2004, 08:59 AM
For the life of me, I really believed that LTP stood for "Long Term Prospect" before I looked it up in the WSI dictionary. When I saw LTP, "Long Term Prospect" sprung into my head and I immediately thought it was in reference to Borchard. Never before have I been so right and so wrong at the same time.

Jerko
06-08-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Uh, I think Otis was quite clear that the deal was contingent on A-Rod being traded to Boston. Last I checked, A-Rod went to the evil empire.

Otis' trade rumor was confirmed in the media a week or so after he posted it hear. That's credible enough in my book.

Here's a quote from Otis;

Word is that the Red Sox feel that they must move Nomar after the Arod fiasco. KW is still interested but wants more than the previous deal.

ARod "fiasco" from the Red Sox perspective means he (Arod)already was signed by the Yankees when Otis made that post. Boston felt they still "had" to trade Nomar cause now they went and hurt his feelings. I know he's been injured, but last I checked, Nomar is still on the Red Sox. Go do a search and tpye in otis; there's about 7 threads that he started where none of the scenarios panned out. I am not trying to bad mouth the guy; I'm sure he has more "sources" than I do, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, a lot of people here DO automatically take everything he says as fact, and up until this point that's just not true. Do I hope we get one of those guys? Sure I do. Do I think it's gonna happen just because Otis said so? No. If it does happen God bless him but I'll wait and see.

soxtalker
06-08-2004, 10:12 AM
I appreciate the info that Otis feeds us, though I certainly don't assume that any deal will take place until it is announced. With the Sox organization being so tight-lipped (not that I disagree with that policy), we depend a lot on info coming from other organizations.

Now, I know that I'm in the vast minority here, but I won't be disappointed to see these deals fall through. I don't want to give up Borchard or Reed, and certainly not for a rent-a-player like Garcia. I hope that KW negotiates as tough as he ever has and gives up little. I've heard the oft-repeated arguments that "we should go for it now" and "prospects are just prospects". They're well made and intentioned, but I, respectfully, simply don't agree. I've been a Sox fan for over 40 years, and I want to see a championship quite badly. But I also know that I'll care just as much next year, when the rent-a-player and our prospects are gone.

Palehose13
06-08-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Do I think it's gonna happen just because Otis said so? No. If it does happen God bless him but I'll wait and see.

It doesn't make me think it is going to happen, but IMO it gives us a little inside on what KW is up to. For example from otis on 12/3/03 (his first post):
For what it's worth....... I know someone in the in the Red Sox organization (Not Theo) that said there have been serious discussions with the White Sox about a trade, only if the Manny for AROD deal happens. The Sox would trade Magglio and Paul Konerko or Billy Koch to the Red Sox for Nomar and Johnny Damon. I don't know anything more than that, but I like the sound of that trade.

No, it didn't pan out but it was definitely under the radar at that time and some people were calling him a troll. Like I said, I don't think "if otis says then it is done", but isn't it nice thinking that KW is looking at possibly getting Sheets? :D:

Jerko
06-08-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Palehose13
It doesn't make me think it is going to happen, but IMO it gives us a little inside on what KW is up to. For example from otis on 12/3/03 (his first post):


No, it didn't pan out but it was definitely under the radar at that time and some people were calling him a troll. Like I said, I don't think "if otis says then it is done", but isn't it nice thinking that KW is looking at possibly getting Sheets? :D:

I'd like to get Ben Sheets on the team, no doubt, but going back to Otis, what's to stop me right now from saying "I have a source in Milwaukee (not the GM) that says they will trade Ben Sheets and Lyle Overbay to the Sox for Konerko and Koch. The trade, when brought up in late April, was originally going to include Ordonez, but his recent injury and his pending FA status at the end of the year has put a damper on it, so look for Konerko to be the one traded with Koch for Overbay and Sheets." That's as believable as Maggs/Koch for Nomar/Damon. All I am saying is Otis started 7 or 8 threads worth of rumors and NOT ONE of them happened, and the fact that some people salivate over every word he types strikes me as funny. Like I said, if he winds up being right; kudos to him, but I'll reserve judgement until a trade is actually made or July 31 rolls around.

Palehose13
06-08-2004, 10:56 AM
Jerko...how dare you disagree with me! That calls for a swift kick in the... Oh and as far as a source in Milwaukee, I'm that source and I say that a trade is happening. Sheets and Podesnik for Koch and Rauch.

Jerko
06-08-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Palehose13
Jerko...how dare you disagree with me! That calls for a swift kick in the... Oh and as far as a source in Milwaukee, I'm that source and I say that a trade is happening. Sheets and Podesnik for Koch and Rauch.

Hey, you disagreed with me first missy. Like I said, Sheets would be nice, we could have the "Three Sheets to the Wind" section for him on the fan deck since Crede's Crew is dwindling. If a trade happens, it happens, Otis or no. And I thought you got over this kicking me phase.............

Palehose13
06-08-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Hey, you disagreed with me first missy...And I thought you got over this kicking me phase.............

Missy?!?!?!? Now you're really in trouble! I just thought I'd bring us back to old times. Cheers! :gulp:

MRKARNO
06-08-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
ARod "fiasco" from the Red Sox perspective means he (Arod)already was signed by the Yankees when Otis made that post. Boston felt they still "had" to trade Nomar cause now they went and hurt his feelings. I know he's been injured, but last I checked, Nomar is still on the Red Sox. Go do a search and tpye in otis; there's about 7 threads that he started where none of the scenarios panned out. I am not trying to bad mouth the guy; I'm sure he has more "sources" than I do, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, a lot of people here DO automatically take everything he says as fact, and up until this point that's just not true. Do I hope we get one of those guys? Sure I do. Do I think it's gonna happen just because Otis said so? No. If it does happen God bless him but I'll wait and see.

Otis can tell us what's being discussed, but it's just the nature of the business that a lot more gets discussed than actually happens. I'm sure the Cubs, Sox, Yanks and Red Sox are in contact about Beltran, and one of these four could be extremely close to getting him from the Royals, but the talks might fall apart and he could be off to San Diego.

maurice
06-08-2004, 01:59 PM
Word is that the Red Sox feel that they must move Nomar after the Arod fiasco. KW is still interested but wants more than the previous deal.

I don't see how the Red Sox' "feeling" and KW's "interest" were disproven. KW's interest certainly didn't evaporate just because the A-Rod to Boston trade fell through. It's been reported that the Red Sox were (understandibly) concerned about the way Nomar and Manny would react to kinda-sorta-almost being traded. They've done a surprisingly good job of mending fences and even have mentioned that Nomar might be resigning this offseason.

CWSGuy406
06-08-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by crector
Interesting how none of otis's claims ever become reality, yet folks hang on every word he says as if he really knows what he's talking about.

As for Reed, anyone who can hit .400 or better in the minors should be absolutely untouchable.

So, Charles, how's that 'Buerhle's Decline' thing workin' out for ya?

otis
06-08-2004, 02:40 PM
There's a couple of reasons I don't post information I hear too often. One reason is because I don't particularly like when people post trade rumors, because too often they are a waste of time and get people's hopes up. Another, is because I don't want to compromise my source. In this case, the White Sox information is second hand through Boston. As long as I don't affect things with my Boston guy, then all is good. I only point out discussions that are occurring. Many discussions take place with many teams. I just wanted to inform people of some neat information (discussions that I haven't heard anywhere). I am not saying these trades will happen, and I am not messing with people. Like I said from the beginning, take it for what it is worth. The Magglio/Nomar talks were the most info I have gotten ever from my source. The main reason is because of the magnitude of the players involved. The White Sox are looking for a marquee type pitcher that makes sense financially and apparently the feeling is that a team could pry away Reed or Borchard for that pitcher. The information I have posted is accurate. I stand by it.

Mickster
06-08-2004, 02:43 PM
Otis,

Ignore the comments of some on this board. A great majority of the people here enjoy your posts and the information you provide even if it never pans out. Post away......

ozzman
06-08-2004, 02:44 PM
thanks again otis, we all appreciate it

npdempse
06-08-2004, 02:49 PM
Indeed, it's good to see Otis' posts. Even if they were totally wrong (which they haven't been), they bring up the most interesting hypotheticals I've seen anywhere.

Iguana775
06-08-2004, 03:12 PM
I know I appreciate the info, otis.

:supernana:

pearso66
06-08-2004, 06:42 PM
I don't know how anyone can rip otis like that. He was the first to break the Nomar/Maggs deal, of course it didnt happen, but it doesnt mean he was wrong. The media was eating that up for 3-4 weeks, and that was 2 weeks after Otis mentioned it here. Its just like that one poster who posted the Koch/Foulke trade way before it happened, wasn't it BMR??? She got torn into by a select few and never came back. Don't shred otis just because a deal fell through

Randar68
06-08-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
wasn't it BMR???

No. That guy wouldn't have known if a trade was going down if it was happenning in his pants.

It was one of Steff's friends, IIRC...

pearso66
06-08-2004, 06:55 PM
right after I posted that I realized that BMR still posts here, or did until recently. I don't remember her handle, but i think it started with a b

1951Campbell
06-08-2004, 07:17 PM
No offense, but of the three mentioned CC is my last choice.



No kidding. Can you imagine if he had access to Chicago-style pizza?

:XL
"Mmmm...Chicago pizza..."

Jerko
06-08-2004, 10:56 PM
I don't think anyone is "ripping" Otis, but he IS on here 2 or 3 times "standing by his information"; none of which has come to fruition yet. He himself admits he doesn't like spreading trade rumors and he even says not to hold him to anything. I DO believe he is a sincere individual and I'm sure his source is a high one, but we all know that misinformation can be passed around time to time between sources when discussing trades. He also says his source is a Boson source and anything non Red Sox-related is secondhand. I don't really think he has the "inside scoop" of what KW is talking about with the GM's of Cleveland, Milwaukee, or Seattle unless the Red Sox are going after the same exact 3 guys listed here. If that's ripping, I apologize.

nitetrain8601
06-09-2004, 02:08 AM
Otis keep putting what you can tell us here. 99% of us like to read it. We know most of it might not happen, but you give us more than the media and I appreciate all of your posts. Good Job.

batmanZoSo
06-09-2004, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Philo-Sox-er
Perhaps they will trade Ramon Ortiz who is angry with being in the bullpen and wants to start? Maybe they'll take Koch from us given that Percival just went on the DL?

He was an excellent pitcher at one point.

White Sox baseball--we take dejected Angels and turn them into quality starters.

dirty-mutt
06-09-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I don't think anyone is "ripping" Otis, but he IS on here 2 or 3 times "standing by his information"; none of which has come to fruition yet. He himself admits he doesn't like spreading trade rumors and he even says not to hold him to anything. I DO believe he is a sincere individual and I'm sure his source is a high one, but we all know that misinformation can be passed around time to time between sources when discussing trades. He also says his source is a Boson source and anything non Red Sox-related is secondhand. I don't really think he has the "inside scoop" of what KW is talking about with the GM's of Cleveland, Milwaukee, or Seattle unless the Red Sox are going after the same exact 3 guys listed here. If that's ripping, I apologize.

While you probably have some good points, at the very least Otis' trade posts have more to them than most, and as most everyone knows more trades get proposed than made so I think its hard for anyone to be consistent in predciting trades.

I guess like any other post here one can take it individually and judge from there. I for one am excited by what few Otis posts I have seen, and his "trade" posts at least lack the frivolity of most others.

As for Otis' source, made up or not or whatever, it is better than anything I got

Getting Sheets would be awesome.

mike
06-09-2004, 04:18 AM
If we planned on trading for him I think his price might have went up after his dominating performance against the halos. 9 ip no runs no walks one hit and 5 k's. It's really a shame he didn't get the win but hey, that's the brewcrews offense for you.

Cubbiesuck13
06-09-2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
:XL
"Mmmm...Chicago pizza..."


uh... we did have colon. that 'kid' was a whale.

StillMissOzzie
06-10-2004, 02:38 AM
otis, I still think that you're the real deal. Another point that nobody seems to have hit on: If there are three teams interested in, say, Ben Sheets, and he does get dealt to one of them, then there are two other disappointed teams. Does that mean that the trade rumors swirling around all of them were just BS? Of course not, but one of those teams had the best package available, the others will have to go elsewhere.

SMO
:gulp:

CWSGuy406
06-10-2004, 03:04 AM
Freddy Garcia gets another tough luck loss, three runs over about eight innings against a pretty good Houston offense...

Rowand/Rauch/PTBNL for Garcia....? I'd take that, but I dunno if they would.

Realist
06-10-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
otis, I still think that you're the real deal. Another point that nobody seems to have hit on: If there are three teams interested in, say, Ben Sheets, and he does get dealt to one of them, then there are two other disappointed teams. Does that mean that the trade rumors swirling around all of them were just BS? Of course not, but one of those teams had the best package available, the others will have to go elsewhere.

SMO
:gulp:

There ya go... thinking outside the box. Now you're just gonna confuse certain people.

Frater Perdurabo
06-10-2004, 10:16 AM
I enjoy and appreciate Otis' posts. Thanks, otis! :smile:

How great would it be to get a quality starting pitcher who is young and relatively inexpensive who would be on the Sox for a few years.

OTOH, I sure hope that KW can do the deal without having to trade Reed or LTP.

otis
06-10-2004, 01:35 PM
I am not looking for support. Hell, if someone else would have posted trade talks involving Sheets or Sabathia I probably wouldn't believe it either!

Iwritecode
06-10-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
No. That guy wouldn't have known if a trade was going down if it was happenning in his pants.

It was one of Steff's friends, IIRC...

Wow, that narrows it down... :smile:

Originally posted by pearso66
right after I posted that I realized that BMR still posts here, or did until recently. I don't remember her handle, but i think it started with a b

It was HotSoxchick. I believe she was HSC1 here. She still posts on Soxtalk IIRC.

BMR was booted from here and I think finally got kicked out of Soxtalk as well. He can be found roaming the troll boards every once in a while...