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View Full Version : Anyone miss Kieth Foulke


pinwheels3530
06-07-2004, 03:53 AM
They should' ve just gave Foulke the money he wanted. When I first heard we traded for Billy Koch I immediately thought of game 5 of the 2002 ALDS he blew the game at home in Oakland to the Twins losing the series. Why was Kenny so quick to get rid of Foulke for Koch. :?: Wish we still had Foulke :whiner: :whiner:

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
They should' ve just gave Foulke the money he wanted. When I first heard we traded for Billy Koch I immediately thought of game 5 of the 2002 ALDS he blew the game at home in Oakland to the Twins losing the series. Why was Kenny so quick to get rid of Foulke for Koch. :?: Wish we still had Foulke :whiner: :whiner:


I think it just depends on the teams. I dont know if foulker woulda returned to form for us. I dont think its coincidence he put up near identical numbers as koch did in oakland. Its insane how many wins koch and foulke racked up in oakland as well as saves. Foulke showed signs of returning to form but so has kock(not a mispelling) every blue moon, then he returns to his wiffle ball training

steff
06-07-2004, 08:54 AM
Save # 11 yesterday...

Gumshoe
06-07-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
I think it just depends on the teams. I dont know if foulker woulda returned to form for us. I dont think its coincidence he put up near identical numbers as koch did in oakland. Its insane how many wins koch and foulke racked up in oakland as well as saves. Foulke showed signs of returning to form but so has kock(not a mispelling) every blue moon, then he returns to his wiffle ball training


Returned to form!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What were you guys watching!

He had 2 bad months as a white sox closer. 2.

He was unused for weeks and then he blew a save and everyone said "crucify him!". I myself did not forget the previous 3 years of virtually unhittable baseball thrown by Mr. Foulke. I also didn't forget conveniently that he went the rest of the season with a sub 1 ERA. He was always fine. Get it through your thick skulls, KW wanted him out, and now he won't depress his ego and just drop Koch entirely.

G

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Returned to form!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What were you guys watching!

He had 2 bad months as a white sox closer. 2.

He was unused for weeks and then he blew a save and everyone said "crucify him!". I myself did not forget the previous 3 years of virtually unhittable baseball thrown by Mr. Foulke. I also didn't forget conveniently that he went the rest of the season with a sub 1 ERA. He was always fine. Get it through your thick skulls, KW wanted him out, and now he won't depress his ego and just drop Koch entirely.

G

Foulke was awful in 2002. He probably benefited from the ol' change of scenery.

And while we're bringing up blowing playoff games, let's talk about Game 1 of the 2000 ALDS. If we win that first game, everything's different. Keith got rocked, we lost and everyone was tighter than spandex the rest of the series. While Thomas and Magglio didn't hit the first game, we did score some runs, it wasn't really til game 2 against Abbott that corpseball set in (and it wouldn't leave until...well, it's still around somewhat).

ma_deuce
06-07-2004, 10:26 AM
The problem with Foulke was two-fold. First, he didn't want to close anymore. He wanted to start, though no one else wanted him to. Then, there was Jerry Manuel. Instead of slapping Foulke around, he coddled him. So, our once dominant closer turned committeeman closer/reliever and was simply not worth his salary.

To be quite honest, they should have traded Jerry Manuel and kept Foulke. However, the Sox would never have paid him what he was worth over the off season last year, so we would not have had Foulke this year either way. Still, we would not have had Koch either...

Deuce

jackbrohamer
06-07-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
He had 2 bad months as a white sox closer. 2.


Closer to 2 bad weeks. He went so deep in the Manuel and/or Williams doghouse he never was closer again.

Bottom line, he was a great relief pitcher for the Sox from 1997 on and he was rewarded by being treated shabbily. So what else is new with this team.

ode to veeck
06-07-2004, 10:37 AM
I don't know if there's another reliever in baseball that's got as many saves as Keith in the last few years, yeah he had a bad period in early 2002 and has some big blwn saves from time to time, but in general, he's pretty consistent. Even the best relievers have blown saves once in a while.

quade36
06-07-2004, 10:39 AM
I don't miss Foulke, He was a nailbitter....

MetalliSox
06-07-2004, 10:50 AM
I think the whole Foulke talk should go away....
Yeah, I wish we kept him LAST YEAR! But let's face it, he wouldn't of resigned after last year so we still would be without him. No use in asking "what if foulke".

Gumshoe
06-07-2004, 10:55 AM
YOu sound like you are on qualudes

If you don't miss (from 1999-2002) a 4.5:1 K/BB ratio, a 2.58 ERA, 96 saves (not even a full time closer for 2 of those years), much less a great WHIP (don't feel like getting tha, but i know it's sweet)

may god have mercy on you

Gumshoe

ps - if Foulke was a "nail biter" you must be playing russian roulette when BK gets out there

JRIG
06-07-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Foulke was awful in 2002. He probably benefited from the ol' change of scenery.



I wish every player we had in 2002 was this awful:

77 2/3 IP, 65 H, 13 BB, 58 K, .225 Opp. Avg., 2.90 ERA

Post All-Star Break: 36 2/3 IP, 25 H, 3 BB, 27K, .191 Opp. Avg., 0.74 ERA.

He was bad in May, giving up 3 HR in 10 innings. Other than that, it's the same old Keith Foulke who has been the best relief pitcher in baseball since 1999.

Dadawg_77
06-07-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
I wish every player we had in 2002 was this awful:

77 2/3 IP, 65 H, 13 BB, 58 K, .225 Opp. Avg., 2.90 ERA

Post All-Star Break: 36 2/3 IP, 25 H, 3 BB, 27K, .191 Opp. Avg., 0.74 ERA.

He was bad in May, giving up 3 HR in 10 innings. Other than that, it's the same old Keith Foulke who has been the best relief pitcher in baseball since 1999.

One of those HR was to Vlad, and well Vlad hits every one and really has no strike zone. I have seen him hit a pitch at his shoes out of the park.

DSpivack
06-07-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
YOu sound like you are on qualudes

If you don't miss (from 1999-2002) a 4.5:1 K/BB ratio, a 2.58 ERA, 96 saves (not even a full time closer for 2 of those years), much less a great WHIP (don't feel like getting tha, but i know it's sweet)

may god have mercy on you

Gumshoe

ps - if Foulke was a "nail biter" you must be playing russian roulette when BK gets out there

I'd love to still have him, but I doubt he would have re-signed here anyway.

Jerko
06-07-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
One of those HR was to Vlad, and well Vlad hits every one and really has no strike zone. I have seen him hit a pitch at his shoes out of the park.

I was at that game, and yes, Vlad does hit everyone. But, my greatest complaint about Foulke (one of them anyway) was that he was USELESS when he was brought into a tie game. That game was tied going into the top of the ninth, and before I got the sentence "watch the first pitch be a homer" out of my mouth, the Sox were losing. He stunk in tie games and he stunk in games with a big lead. He was GREAT in one run games coming in in the 9th, and he had a few 2 inning saves, but the lack of results when brought into a tie or with a big lead makes me not miss him. It just seemed to me that Foulke only could excel when he came into games with nobody out in the 9th AND a 1 run lead. And that doesn't mean I like Koch either.

CubKilla
06-07-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
He had 2 bad months as a white sox closer. 2.

This here, is key. Foulke had, at the most, 2 bad months. Botch is on bad YEAR number 2.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2004, 01:56 PM
Just for the record Game #1 of the 2000 ALDS was lost because Manager Gandhi in his brilliant way of doing things brought in Chad Bradford , a rookie, to try to protect a 4-3 lead.

I guess he wanted to make sure Bradford wasn't feeling 'left out,' because he wasn't expected to play at all.

Friggin' idiot.

Lip

ode to veeck
06-07-2004, 02:10 PM
Just for the record Game #1 of the 2000 ALDS was lost because Manager Gandhi in his brilliant way of doing things brought in Chad Bradford , a rookie, to try to protect a 4-3 lead.

Traumatic Stress Syndrome had blocked all memory of this event for me ... I had snuck out of a technical conference I was presenting at to watch the end of the game at the bar in the hotel ...

gosox41
06-07-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Foulke was awful in 2002. He probably benefited from the ol' change of scenery.

And while we're bringing up blowing playoff games, let's talk about Game 1 of the 2000 ALDS. If we win that first game, everything's different. Keith got rocked, we lost and everyone was tighter than spandex the rest of the series. While Thomas and Magglio didn't hit the first game, we did score some runs, it wasn't really til game 2 against Abbott that corpseball set in (and it wouldn't leave until...well, it's still around somewhat).


2002 stats for Foulke:

ERA 2.90
K/BB 4.42
K/9IP 6.72
OBP .261
OPS .590
WHIP 1.00

2002 stats for Koch

ERA 3.27
K/BB 2.02
K/9 8.94
OBP .309
OPS .617
WHIP 1.27


So if Foulke had a horrible 2002 what's your excuse for Koch?


Bob

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I was at that game, and yes, Vlad does hit everyone. But, my greatest complaint about Foulke (one of them anyway) was that he was USELESS when he was brought into a tie game. That game was tied going into the top of the ninth, and before I got the sentence "watch the first pitch be a homer" out of my mouth, the Sox were losing. He stunk in tie games and he stunk in games with a big lead. He was GREAT in one run games coming in in the 9th, and he had a few 2 inning saves, but the lack of results when brought into a tie or with a big lead makes me not miss him. It just seemed to me that Foulke only could excel when he came into games with nobody out in the 9th AND a 1 run lead. And that doesn't mean I like Koch either.


I was at the Yankee Game where foulke officially lost his job when he couldnt pitch 2 innings of relief and gave up the highest homerun i ever saw when Giambi just launched it. To quote harry doyle "He's gonna need a rocket up his ass to catch that one"

Then again i was always a supporter of trying him at starter. We were out of it, why not give foulke a shot, if foulke woulda started and done semi well, we may not have 5th starter woes now. I could see him as a derrek lowe just with only 2 pitches.

Railsplitter
06-08-2004, 09:41 AM
Interesting thing, those of you who want Foulke Back. Care to take a guess as to how the Sox got him in the first place?

Dadawg_77
06-08-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
Interesting thing, those of you who want Foulke Back. Care to take a guess as to how the Sox got him in the first place?


A big white flag.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2004, 11:37 AM
And he was the only player among the six the Sox got who ever made even a single All Star Team and he did that with the A's.

Some trade for the future.

Lip

quade36
06-08-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
YOu sound like you are on qualudes

If you don't miss (from 1999-2002) a 4.5:1 K/BB ratio, a 2.58 ERA, 96 saves (not even a full time closer for 2 of those years), much less a great WHIP (don't feel like getting tha, but i know it's sweet)

may god have mercy on you

Gumshoe

ps - if Foulke was a "nail biter" you must be playing russian roulette when BK gets out there

I just give up when they throw Koch out there. I expected him to blow the game and was surprised when he didn't. There is a difference.

jabrch
06-08-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
They should' ve just gave Foulke the money he wanted. When I first heard we traded for Billy Koch I immediately thought of game 5 of the 2002 ALDS he blew the game at home in Oakland to the Twins losing the series. Why was Kenny so quick to get rid of Foulke for Koch. :?: Wish we still had Foulke :whiner: :whiner:

It had nothing to do with MONEY. We benched him. He was no longer good enough to close for us. That's the bottom line. He came back elsewhere - but he was DONE here. This is old news - but it keeps coming back. Forget Foulke - he was leaving - gone - done