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View Full Version : I hope I just saw the game that changes our season...


pudge
06-07-2004, 12:28 AM
Nightmare in Seattle Part Seven

Since the play-off loss in 2000, I think I've witnessed first-hand Foulke blow at least 3 saves, and now Koch's ultimate disaster. The Sox have not won a series in Seattle since 2000. I just hope I saw the game that reshapes our bullpen and puts us on a path to a division title. If Koch continues to close, it will be very hard for me to root for this team and the people who run it.

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 12:32 AM
Hopefully the Sox can turn this into the low point of their season, replace Koch with Takatsu and just win a ton from here.

mdep524
06-07-2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by pudge
If Koch continues to close, it will be very hard for me to root for this team and the people who run it.

I hope KW gets this message. I am the same way. Lose Koch or lose fans, Kenny. It's your call.

JB98
06-07-2004, 12:51 AM
I have to admit there have been a few ninth innings this year where I've thought to myself, "Maybe we are better off if Koch blows it. That way Ozzie will see Koch is not the right man for the job." The implosion we've all been waiting for has finally happened, and it's a good thing that this has taken place now. It's still early enough in the season that the problem can be addressed, and hopefully, corrected. What happened tonight was bad, but it would be even worse if we had gone the whole summer with Koch's heart-attack saves, and then the implosion happens in a critical September game. This loss hurts, but we have three and a half months to make up for it, thank goodness. A blown save like this on, say, September 22 could cost you the season.

pssondacubs
06-07-2004, 12:59 AM
The implosion we've all been waiting for has finally happened, and it's a good thing that this has taken place now.

I thought that implosion was a couple nights ago. Ozzie can't be as stupid as this makes him look. I'm guessing the Ego maniac KW's calling the shots on this one.

Unregistered
06-07-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by pssondacubs
I thought that implosion was a couple nights ago. Ozzie can't be as stupid as this makes him look. I'm guessing the Ego maniac KW's calling the shots on this one. By taking the pulse of the board on the last Koch implosion, it seems like Wednesday's loss was blamed on a number of things BESIDES Koch's general sucking - Rowand bobbling the ball in right, low offensive production, etc.
It's a safe guess that the sentiment was shared by Ozzie and management. They probably figured the ol' "We're sticking by our closer" would at least get them through another few weeks until the next blowup. Bad call.

After this game, you'd have to be a ****ing MORON not to realize how bad this assbag is. Koch is just LOST out there. As was stated days ago, he has NO out pitch, and he hurts this team every time he walks on to that mound as the closer.

Put another vote in the box for Takatsu...

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
By taking the pulse of the board on the last Koch implosion, it seems like Wednesday's loss was blamed on a number of things BESIDES Koch's general sucking - Rowand bobbling the ball in right, low offensive production, etc.
It's a safe guess that the sentiment was shared by Ozzie and management. They probably figured the ol' "We're sticking by our closer" would at least get them through another few weeks until the next blowup. Bad call.

After this game, you'd have to be a ****ing MORON not to realize how bad this assbag is. Koch is just LOST out there. As was stated days ago, he has NO out pitch, and he hurts this team every time he walks on to that mound as the closer.

Put another vote in the box for Takatsu...

I got a question. How did he ever have success?

JB98
06-07-2004, 01:17 AM
Maybe I have a little different definition of implosion than you do. Giving up one run, that happens to every relief pitcher except for Eric Gagne. It's a blown save, but it's not an implosion.

Giving up three runs, allowing four stolen bases, walking three guys, and walking in the winning run, now that's an implosion.

Ah, hell. I just realized I'm arguing semantics here. Bottom line: Koch sucks.

frankochal
06-07-2004, 01:19 AM
The best would be to replace Koch with Mike Jackson. He has had 40 save seasons in the past, has pitched well this year and the other bullpen pitchers could all remain in their current roles.
Frank

Unregistered
06-07-2004, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I got a question. How did he ever have success? My guess is around the time he was throwing 100mph heat for strikes.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2004, 01:20 AM
Koch used to throw about 100 MPH and said 'try to hit this.'

He's lost at least five MPH off his pitches now and they are more easily hit. Plus he's walking guys more often then ever.

Two difficult things to overcome.

Lip

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by frankochal
The best would be to replace Koch with Mike Jackson. He has had 40 save seasons in the past, has pitched well this year and the other bullpen pitchers could all remain in their current roles.
Frank

It might work, but I dont know how anyone could close effectively when they throw one breaking pitch almost all the time (slider) and an occasional fastball just to keep the hitter honest. That's a good slider, but I just dont think he has enough pitch variety to close.

Gumshoe
06-07-2004, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by JB98
I have to admit there have been a few ninth innings this year where I've thought to myself, "Maybe we are better off if Koch blows it. That way Ozzie will see Koch is not the right man for the job." The implosion we've all been waiting for has finally happened, and it's a good thing that this has taken place now. It's still early enough in the season that the problem can be addressed, and hopefully, corrected. What happened tonight was bad, but it would be even worse if we had gone the whole summer with Koch's heart-attack saves, and then the implosion happens in a critical September game. This loss hurts, but we have three and a half months to make up for it, thank goodness. A blown save like this on, say, September 22 could cost you the season.

JB, you put into words EXACTLY what I've been thinking for a while. It kills me to think that a White Sox loss could be a better result than otherwise. The thing that kills me though is, we HAVEN'T been learning from this. If this isn't the last straw, my gosh, I have no idea how a freakin' major league team management wise makes ANY decision.

I am totally with you. If I see Koch trot out there one more time, though, I just might drop dead. Can we finally learn from this bad result? Please, KW, please, please, do what is right to win, please ... get your ego out of our team's results.

G

34 Inch Stick
06-07-2004, 09:30 AM
I hope yesterday was not this year's version of 4th of July in Tampa. I don't think the Sox ever recovered from that loss.

jabrch
06-07-2004, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I hope yesterday was not this year's version of 4th of July in Tampa. I don't think the Sox ever recovered from that loss.

Or the Paniagua Affair

BigEdWalsh
06-07-2004, 09:38 AM
What I think the Sox should do immediately is release Billy Koch. Just let him go. Send down Politte. Bring up Darensbourg (a leftie) or Wunsch and Santiago (a rightie).
MAKE SHINGO THE CLOSER!
And we'll go from there. But for crissakes, let Koch go!
:)

Fungo
06-07-2004, 09:43 AM
When Koch comes in the game, I assume he will blow the save, if he does in fact save it, it's a bonus. I have absolutely zero confidence in him.

Hangar18
06-07-2004, 11:15 AM
Guys, this game WAS the game that will change our Season ..........for the WORST. The sox are not going to recover from this. Where we shouldve had a 5 game lead on the Twins, but instead only a 1 game lead, mostly because JR wanted to AVOID paying Arbitration to Foulke and snuck Koch
on us. At least we saved a couple Million bucks!!!!

South Side
06-07-2004, 11:41 AM
Could you please stop? Thank you.

Hangar18
06-07-2004, 11:49 AM
bugs me that we "lost" the Division Race last year ...........
by ONLY 4 games. We can all think of 4 games that were
the difference. Anyone here think of 4 games this Year
that could kill us come September?

Brian26
06-07-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
bugs me that we "lost" the Division Race last year ...........
by ONLY 4 games. We can all think of 4 games that were
the difference. Anyone here think of 4 games this Year
that could kill us come September?

Let's see...

Wednesday afternoon in Oakland.

Last night in Seattle.

First game of the season in Kansas City.

There are three off the top of my head.

Palehose13
06-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Let's see...

Wednesday afternoon in Oakland.

Last night in Seattle.

First game of the season in Kansas City.

There are three off the top of my head.

Not that I disagree with you guys, but how many games have we "stolen" from opposing teams this year? Is it more, less, or even with the number of "blown" games?

CubKilla
06-07-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by BigEdWalsh
What I think the Sox should do immediately is release Billy Koch. Just let him go.

Absolutely. But KW saw to it to pay Botch around $6 million to blow games in 2004 so Botch isn't going anywhere.

When have you know JR to walk over and ignore a dime laying on the ground? This is $6 million we're talking about here.

steff
06-07-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Absolutely. But KW saw to it to pay Botch around $6 million to blow games in 2004 so Botch isn't going anywhere.

When have you know JR to walk over and ignore a dime laying on the ground? This is $6 million we're talking about here.



I am the last person to defend these goofs.. but it was KW who stroked JR until he got the $$ to sign Koch. I can't blame the Sox money men for not wanting to suck every dime out of him they can. With that in mind.. I think Billy should be made to mop up beer spills in the stands.. with his tongue!

Palehose13
06-07-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by steff
I am the last person to defend these goofs.. but it was KW who stroked JR until he got the $$ to sign Koch. I can't blame the Sox money men for not wanting to suck every dime out of him they can. With that in mind.. I think Billy should be made to mop up beer spills in the stands.. with his tongue!

I would pay some money to see that and I bet other people would too. I think it woul be a great promo and may get some of the money wasted on Koch back in JR's pocket...cause we all know how he needs the money.

delben91
06-07-2004, 01:44 PM
This is in no way defending Koch. He blew two saves this week, and a change needs to be made in that role. However, I recall a few weeks ago after the second twins series where we left tied for first place. Everyone on the board was saying, "if we can stay within a few games of the twins during the next few weeks while they play tampa and detroit and we get the west, we'll be in good shape when the roles are reversed later in the season" This is what happened. Granted, it is in part because the twins are playing equally as poorly as the Sox, but you have to keep in mind the bottom line. The Sox are still in first despite playing the West while the Twins actually are one game further back after playing tampa and detroit for several series.

Yeah, the Sox are scuffling and changes need to be made at the back of the bullpen. Considering the circumstances though, it could be a whole heck of a lot worse.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by delben91
This is in no way defending Koch. He blew two saves this week, and a change needs to be made in that role. However, I recall a few weeks ago after the second twins series where we left tied for first place. Everyone on the board was saying, "if we can stay within a few games of the twins during the next few weeks while they play tampa and detroit and we get the west, we'll be in good shape when the roles are reversed later in the season" This is what happened. Granted, it is in part because the twins are playing equally as poorly as the Sox, but you have to keep in mind the bottom line. The Sox are still in first despite playing the West while the Twins actually are one game further back after playing tampa and detroit for several series.

Yeah, the Sox are scuffling and changes need to be made at the back of the bullpen. Considering the circumstances though, it could be a whole heck of a lot worse.

But seen another way, the Sox should have capitalized on the Twins' slump. The Twins may not have another stretch of bad games like they did recently. This may have been the only opportunity for the Sox to build up a big lead in the division.

pudge
06-07-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by delben91
This is in no way defending Koch. He blew two saves this week, and a change needs to be made in that role. However, I recall a few weeks ago after the second twins series where we left tied for first place. Everyone on the board was saying, "if we can stay within a few games of the twins during the next few weeks while they play tampa and detroit and we get the west, we'll be in good shape when the roles are reversed later in the season" This is what happened. Granted, it is in part because the twins are playing equally as poorly as the Sox, but you have to keep in mind the bottom line. The Sox are still in first despite playing the West while the Twins actually are one game further back after playing tampa and detroit for several series.

Yeah, the Sox are scuffling and changes need to be made at the back of the bullpen. Considering the circumstances though, it could be a whole heck of a lot worse.

Blah.

Wanne
06-07-2004, 03:51 PM
Well...this game definately changed "my" season! I still haven't found all the pieces to my remote after bouncing it off my floor, which resulted in a very nice triple back summersault with a full twist and exploding on my door frame! Never knew a remote had so many pieces inside! Thanks Billy!

mealfred13
06-07-2004, 04:20 PM
On average, most batters will hit approximately 1 out of 4 times at bat. Some do better, some do worse, but on average 25% is about right. My theory is that ever since Koch lost his 100MPH fastball, he's simply been getting saves based on the fact that, on average, 1 in 4 guys will get a hit off of a decent pitcher. His pitching is far from decent at times, which helps him blow a save faster, and on nights when he's pitching well, the odds are slightly in his favor.

Basically, he gets a save 50 - 75% of the time just because the odds dictate that will happen.

Shingo should be the closer, how much more does he have to prove himself? If he'd been left in for the 9th yesterday, we'd have come home with a win and an extra half game on the Twins. We should mass email JR until he sees it our way.

mantis1212
06-07-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Wanne
Well...this game definately changed "my" season! I still haven't found all the pieces to my remote after bouncing it off my floor, which resulted in a very nice triple back summersault with a full twist and exploding on my door frame! Never knew a remote had so many pieces inside! Thanks Billy!

LOL nice