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View Full Version : *Official* Postgame Thread - Sox vs. Mariners - 6/6/04


FarWestChicago
06-06-2004, 11:22 PM
Ugh......

cheeses_h_rice
06-06-2004, 11:22 PM
****!

illinibk
06-06-2004, 11:23 PM
http://www.cameltoe.org/images/Trumpsmall.jpg

YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!!!

dpbyron
06-06-2004, 11:23 PM
RELEASE KOTCH

MikeKreevich
06-06-2004, 11:24 PM
The Belly Koch era is over. I hope!

Mots09
06-06-2004, 11:24 PM
I NEVER WANT TO SEE HIM ON THE MOUND EVER AGAIN!


HE GAVE UP 3 STOLEN BASES HIMSELF...



I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW.
HE IS OFFICIALLY PUT ON MY BUSLIST

valposoxfan
06-06-2004, 11:27 PM
No excuse for what happened tonight. I am SICK of this crap. This is the last damn straw. We should be three up on the Twins but Billy blew it twice. All the hits were ropes, Sandy made stops on two horrendous pitches, and he couldn't hold a runner on to save his life. This is it. This should have been an over .500 roadtrip and would have maybe propelled this team to huge things. Now, as things stand, we are the same as last year, with a slightly better record. Ridiculous. Kenny get us something NOW.

itsnotrequired
06-06-2004, 11:28 PM
this has ruined my evening :(:

anewman35
06-06-2004, 11:28 PM
I am not going to another game this year as long as Billy Koch is our closer.

duke of dorwood
06-06-2004, 11:28 PM
He deserves what Tony B got tonight

Frankfan4life
06-06-2004, 11:33 PM
Is Koch getting paid by the opposing team to throw these games? How can any closer be this bad??? I can't stand this anymore!!!! :angry: :angry:

Please Ozzie do not let Koch close any more games. Manuel may have been wrong about many things, but he was right about not letting Koch close!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

Unregistered
06-06-2004, 11:33 PM
I said it in the game thread, and I'm saying it again: I really don't want to hear ANYONE talk about how Koch just got "unlucky" or how he's "8 for 10 in saves" or how the "offense should have scored more" or any of that crap. He is TERRIBLE. Whatever mojo closers have, be it nerves of steel or whatever, he just doesn't have "it". :angry: :angry: :angry:

Releasing him improves our team by 5 wins, easily.

SEALgep
06-06-2004, 11:33 PM
There is no explaining how bad that was. :angry:

JRIG
06-06-2004, 11:33 PM
Koch is such a jerk he can't even win a game on my birthday.

He had no chance out there, no chance at all. Zero control.

But hey, I think I saw him hit 93 and 94 on the gun. His velocity is coming back which means good things will be coming down the road!

DSpivack
06-06-2004, 11:34 PM
Ladies and gentleman, we have a closer problem here.

duke of dorwood
06-06-2004, 11:39 PM
Tony B wasnt killed as much as my spirit tonight

kittle42
06-06-2004, 11:41 PM
Can we please find a mystery illness for Koch a la our North Side neighbors and their "closer" headache?

duke of dorwood
06-06-2004, 11:45 PM
Koch is an embarrassment-those steals were mocking him. HE MUST BE CUT-IMMEDIATELY

duke of dorwood
06-06-2004, 11:46 PM
And OZZIE and his inaction is getting on my nerves

ShoelessFred
06-06-2004, 11:47 PM
CUT THAT BITCH NOW

batmanZoSo
06-06-2004, 11:47 PM
This is what happens when you try to win something without paying. Either get a closer or die.

anewman35
06-06-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
This is what happens when you try to win something without paying. Either get a closer or die.

I don't even think we need a good closer. It would be nice, sure, but even some middle of the road AAA reliever would be better up there than Koch is now.

SoxxoS
06-06-2004, 11:48 PM
Remember that people on the west coast haven't seen the Sopranos yet...

Iguana775
06-06-2004, 11:48 PM
Time to give Takatsu the closer job. He has not given up a run since April 20..that 18.1 IP, 8 hits, 4 BB, 12 K's. He should be the man starting tomorrow.

Mr. Zero's Stats. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7255)

hose
06-06-2004, 11:49 PM
The Billy Koch era is over. He should only be used as mop up.

If Ozzie is the real deal he will demote Koch and not worry about KW's rep.

SoxFan78
06-06-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
I don't even think we need a good closer. It would be nice, sure, but even some middle of the road AAA reliever would be better up there than Koch is now.

A Juggs pitching machine is better then Koch right now. At least the pitching machine pitches strikes.

FoulTerritory
06-06-2004, 11:50 PM
My brother called me tonight just before the bottom of the 9th started and said that I should not get upset because Koch would obviously blow the save, and this would seal his fate and end his tenure as our closer. To quote, "In the long run, this will be good for the team brother, because we will never see Koch in a closer position again"

That was before Botch even threw a pitch.

I hope he's right.

DrCrawdad
06-06-2004, 11:50 PM
I could smell the loss cooking tonight. The ingredients were there for it when the Sox left bases jammed.

It has absolutely got to stop with Koch as closer. Stick a fork in his (butt) it's over.

inta
06-06-2004, 11:50 PM
i've defended koch all this season coz i think he's gotten some bad breaks and he's gotten the job done more times than not.

but tonight was beyond ridiculous.

it's going to be a cold day in hell when i support this guy again. that was as bad as it gets.


ps. thank you duke of dorwood for ruining the season finale of sopranos for me. i was at my goddaughters christening all day/night and was looking forward to watching it on tape... especially after this bullcrap game.

again. thanks. salt in the wound.
:angry:

Viva Magglio
06-06-2004, 11:51 PM
Letting Billy Koch Pitch = Thorwing Games

On radio postgame, Melton is sounding borderline Buffone/Obradovich.

South Side
06-06-2004, 11:51 PM
If anyone is even thinking about defending that joke of a baseball player right now, bite your tongue.... all I have to say.

balboner
06-06-2004, 11:52 PM
I'm starting to get sick and tired of the way Ozzie manages a games. First, he continues to play Valentin vs lefties, which is basically giving the other team 3 easy outs during the game. Also, he continues to waste Marte, one of the best relievers in MLB. Using him to get one batter did not make sense tonight. Marte should have been saved to face Ichiro, Winn, and Olerud their last time up. It seems like there are a lot of players on the Sox team that are wasting roster spots. If Kelly D. is not going to play vs a lefty, then he should not be on the team. I would love for the Sox to find a lefty catcher to go with Olivo in the future to helpo offset some of Olivo's hitting troubles vs righties. I'm just so sick of Sandy and his terrible bat speed and throwing arm. On the bright side, the Sox are still in first place.

anewman35
06-06-2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by inta
ps. thank you duke of dorwood for ruining the season finale of sopranos for me. i was at my goddaughters christening all day/night and was looking forward to watching it on tape... especially after this bullcrap game.

again. thanks. salt in the wound.
:angry:

Come on, was that really a spoiler? How could you not have seen that coming?

Win1ForMe
06-06-2004, 11:52 PM
I posted this on April 11th, when the Billy Koch supporters were still going strong:

The thing about Koch is he's fool's gold. Sure, he'll save some games just like he did last year (11/15 IIRC).

It's not like he's completely incompetent. But the longer you keep him in there as the closer, the higher the chances of us getting burned, just like last year.

If Koch is in there again, I'll call Kenny Williams a flat out moron and unworthy of his current position. Yeah, Ozzie is a boob for bringing him in, but who's the jerk who wants to get back money on his investment?

cheeses_h_rice
06-06-2004, 11:53 PM
As I said in the game chat, it's like ****ing Ground ****ing Hog ****ing Day for Sox fans when Koch takes the mound with less than a 10-run lead.

I say Ozzie should not use Koch except for mop-up duty for the duration of the season, and go with closer by committee 'til KW can get a Real Closer.

Koch SUCKS.

Viva Magglio
06-06-2004, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Remember that people on the west coast haven't seen the Sopranos yet...

:sopranos
"Silvio, I want you to take Koch for a 'ride' to the forest preserve. And Big P, why are you still standing in the picture after we whacked you on the boat?"

Lip Man 1
06-06-2004, 11:53 PM
Here's what the numbers say so far...

The Sox are now 13-6 in one run games (after starting 11-1)

This is the 7th time the Sox pitching staff has lost the lead in the 7th inning or later this season

The Sox wound up losing five of those games.

Of the five games they lost, the lead was blown in the 8th inning twice and in the 9th inning three times.

The Sox are now 10-5-3 in series outcomes (series won-lost-split)

As far as Koch, the reality is the Sox are not going to cut him no matter how many games he blows, I don't know if they can send him back to the minors without his consent and at least on Wednesday morning Ozzie strongly said Shingo will not become his closer when a reporter asked that question. (and Pollitte certainly can't close, he's walking as many guys as Koch...)

But looking past the Koch problems, the other reality is this team is dropping back into a hitting funk again . 16 runs total in five games. That's an average of 3.2 runs per game.

You're not going to win much like that. It's a shame... they could have gone 3-2 on the trip and maybe laid some West Coast demons to rest instead 1-4 and the plague on the coast continues with six more games scheduled later this year.

Also for those who keep track, the Sox are now 2-2 in games shown on ESPN (with none at home) and 1-1 on Fox nationally on Saturday (with one home game)

Lip

JB98
06-06-2004, 11:53 PM
Four stolen bases in one inning. That's a joke.

Dan H
06-06-2004, 11:54 PM
This was the most pathetic performance I have seen in recent memory. By now fans have to see that Koch can't throw the ball by anyone and control is more than a big issue. No more excuses for this guy. Ozzie can stop his stupid on air interviews during games, stop being stubborn and realize that Koch is no one's closer. This makes me yearn for the days of Juan Agosto. Has there been anything more embarassing than that ninth?

VaSoxfan
06-06-2004, 11:54 PM
Pure and simple, Guillen is to blame. Maybe Williams and Reinsdorf too. I don't blame Koch. Koch has struggled since last year, and despite the fact he has saved what 8 of 11, most of those 8 have been way too challenging. The fact that Koch has stunk is no secret and it's nothing new. What is mind-boggling is the fact that this team keeps going to him...when he clearly is a train wreck. 3 walks, 2 hits, 4 stolen bases allowed?

I don't get it...I don't understand the mentality...Takatsu threw what, seven pitches in the 8th? Why is the man not allowed to be the closer? Teams are batting what, .135-ish against him? Koch is a disaster..and has cost us two wins on what could have been a decent road trip, returning 3 games up on Minnesota. Now they come home, wasting a great Loazia performance, losing two of three to the worst team in the AL...going to hear more and more about the "west coast troubles."

This sucks. Until the management of this team gets its head out of its butt (Hey Ozzie instead of blabbing about your freaking kids all night on ESPN how bout managing the game) then there is no reason to be optimistic about where this season is going.

SoxFan78
06-06-2004, 11:55 PM
I think fans of the south side all let out a collective "Oh No" when they showed Billy Koch in the bottom of the ninth

inta
06-06-2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Come on, was that really a spoiler? How could you not have seen that coming?

yeah, coz the sopranos have always been SO predictable...

it would've been nice to watch the show and find out for myself.

A.T. Money
06-06-2004, 11:55 PM
What a disgrace!!!!

You know, most teams bring in their closer in the 9th, and that usually means the other team is through!!!

Except our guy. When you bring in our piece of crap, it means we want YOU to win.

I can't even believe this. This was a huge disgrace in front of a global audience (ESPN).

Takatsu gets in there, gets it done with 7 pitches in the 8th.

Is Guillen afraid of hurting Koch's feelings by trotting Shingo out there again the 9th?

I can't STAND THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry:

ndgt10
06-06-2004, 11:56 PM
Koch + Alomar = NO CHANCE at throwing anyone out :angry:

Viva Magglio
06-06-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
This was the most pathetic performance I have seen in recent memory. By now fans have to see that Koch can't throw the ball by anyone and control is more than a big issue. No more excuses for this guy. Ozzie can stop his stupid on air interviews during games, stop being stubborn and realize that Koch is no one's closer. This makes me yearn for the days of Juan Agosto. Has there been anything more embarassing than that ninth?

And to borrow a line from the movie Die Hard..."We got butt-[bleeped] on national television."

Iguana775
06-06-2004, 11:56 PM
Is it me or does Kroch seem like he just doesnt give a crap?

CWSGuy406
06-06-2004, 11:56 PM
Yeah - because Koch blew the game for us, the whole team sucks and we're going no where.

This thread sucks.

Viva Magglio
06-06-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I posted this on April 11th, when the Billy Koch supporters were still going strong:



If Koch is in there again, I'll call Kenny Williams a flat out moron and unworthy of his current position. Yeah, Ozzie is a boob for bringing him in, but who's the jerk who wants to get back money on his investment?

:reinsy
"Why are you looking at me, Win1ForMe?"

Thunderstruck30
06-06-2004, 11:57 PM
Dont give me this having faith in your closer crap, Koch doesnt deserve any faith. I mean Danny Wright would probably be a better closer. Somewhere Billy Beane is laughing his ass off.

batmanZoSo
06-06-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by FoulTerritory
My brother called me tonight just before the bottom of the 9th started and said that I should not get upset because Koch would obviously blow the save, and this would seal his fate and end his tenure as our closer. To quote, "In the long run, this will be good for the team brother, because we will never see Koch in a closer position again"

That was before Botch even threw a pitch.

I hope he's right.

Yeah, that's true. I could've seen him fooling us until he singlehandedly pitches us out of the ALDS. If he is done after this debacle, it will be for the best. Better sooner than later.

If he's still the closer, I officially don't care anymore.

balboner
06-06-2004, 11:57 PM
All the smallball that the Sox are playing will not work if you can't hold a one or two run lead late. There's a reaosn the Dodgers try to get that extra run early....they have Gagne. The Sox best chance is to blow the other team out. That seems like the only way they've won over last few weeks.

fuzzy_patters
06-06-2004, 11:58 PM
I can admit when I am wrong. Billy has to go.

Ken
06-06-2004, 11:58 PM
Embarassed on national tv!

WhiteSox = Life
06-06-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan78
I think fans of the south side all let out a collective "Oh No" when they showed Billy Koch in the bottom of the ninth

I think you'd be much more accurate if you replaced the "n" with an "f," the "o" with a "u," and add a "c" and a "k" to the end, bolding the entire statement while adding about a half-dozen exclamation points for emphasis.

Viva Magglio
06-07-2004, 12:00 AM
Wills plugs WSI again...

SoxFan78
06-07-2004, 12:00 AM
Wills just tried getting on WSI, no go. Too many people

CWSGuy406
06-07-2004, 12:00 AM
Hey - Dave Wills just gave the website a hit. He was like:

"I was trying to get on White Sox Interactive, the message board Clubhouse, but I couldn't even get on. The Sox fans must be pissed."

South Side
06-07-2004, 12:01 AM
I'm not blaming Ozzie at all for what happened tonight. Yeah he makes a few questionable decisions here and there but does everyone understand that this idiot Koch is getting paid what is it? 6 MILLION dollars to come in there and get 3 outs? 3 OUTS... This is his job and he cannot do it therefore he should be fired. This is all on Koch.I give Ozzie credit for trying to build his player's confidence but now it's past the breaking point. Koch cannot close. If Koch is put back in, then Ozzie is making a horrible horrible decision... What a waste of a week in terms of White Sox baseball.... Hopefully, we can bounce back from this.

JRIG
06-07-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Hey - Dave Wills just gave the website a hit. He was like:

"I was trying to get on White Sox Interactive, the message board Clubhouse, but I couldn't even get on. The Sox fans must be pissed."

Gee, do you think so? Nothing rallies the masses like blowing a 2-run against the worst team in the AL and walking in the winning run.

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Hey - Dave Wills just gave the website a hit. He was like:

"I was trying to get on White Sox Interactive, the message board Clubhouse, but I couldn't even get on. The Sox fans must be pissed."

Ya think Dave? Our hearts were just flushed down the crapper. Yeah we're a little ticked.

mdep524
06-07-2004, 12:03 AM
I don't even know if I have words right now.

Frankly, the Sox got exactly what they deserved tonight. I mean, did ANYBODY not see this coming except Ozzie and KW? Shingo threw 7 pitches and didn't even break a sweat in the 8th. I have no sympathy for a team that takes him out in that situation to go to Billy Koch, just because he is the "closer." Truly pathetic.

JRIG
06-07-2004, 12:05 AM
I will use my 1,000th post to say this:

It's appropriate this milestone will happen in this thread. Pointing out how horrible mediocre/bad a pitcher Billy Koch is has been one of my biggest soapboxes on this site.

I would like nothing more than for this to be the last time we ever have to have one of these threads. I fear it will not be, however.

Viva Magglio
06-07-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
I don't even know if I have words right now.

Frankly, the Sox got exactly what they deserved tonight. I mean, did ANYBODY not see this coming except Ozzie and KW? Shingo threw 7 pitches and didn't even break a sweat in the 8th. I have no sympathy for a team that takes him out in that situation to go to Billy Koch, just because he is the "closer." Truly pathetic.

Letting Koch pitch is purely Wannstendian.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
No excuse for what happened tonight. I am SICK of this crap. This is the last damn straw. We should be three up on the Twins but Billy blew it twice. All the hits were ropes, Sandy made stops on two horrendous pitches, and he couldn't hold a runner on to save his life. This is it. This should have been an over .500 roadtrip and would have maybe propelled this team to huge things. Now, as things stand, we are the same as last year, with a slightly better record. Ridiculous. Kenny get us something NOW.


Im just hoping this isnt a relapse of last year in tampa when we hit a major slide when botch blew it then for us.

mendozaln
06-07-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan78
I think fans of the south side all let out a collective "Oh No" when they showed Billy Koch in the bottom of the ninth

I know I did. But Ozzie's said that he's going to leave his pitchers in longer than JM did, that they'll be responsible for the win or the loss. He's done that many times w/ Koch and Koch has failed, pretty decisively, so perhaps today was the final chance. (O/w, how many chances does he get???)

Nellie Comiskey
06-07-2004, 12:07 AM
As if this past Wednesday was bad enough....Koch blowing a save that would have increased the lead over the Twins by 3 he comes out and does this on national TV. Unfortunately the Sopranos and NBA Finals were on, otherwise everyone would/should see what a joke he is. I like Joe Morgan's "6 pack" reference...with Koch it's a case. There are not enough adjectives to describe his brutality. Ozzie managed a great game, the Sox had it in the bag until Koch came in. When Koch goes into a game it's like riding in a plane with heavy turbulence: You hold on for dear life and hope you're alive when all is said and done. That's twice in a week that Koch has blown it and hopefully this will prove he's done. Even though I give our guys too many chances for redemption....he's done in my book. A two run lead...you get one out and the winning run scores on a walk(with not close pitches). He deserved it....an embarrassing bottom of the ninth for our 1st place Sox! :angry:

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:07 AM
also...


Why do you NOT leave in a man whos been lights out the past 20 innings and retired the side on 7 pitches NOT FINISH!!!!(takatsu)

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Nellie Comiskey
As if this past Wednesday was bad enough....Koch blowing a save that would have increased the lead over the Twins by 3 he comes out and does this on national TV.

The Twins won today. We're only up a game

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan78
A Juggs pitching machine is better then Koch right now. At least the pitching machine pitches strikes.


A lobotomized chimp can pitch better than Koch.....atleast he wouldnt dirt it 5 feet infront of the plate.

mendozaln
06-07-2004, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by South Side
I'm not blaming Ozzie at all for what happened tonight. Yeah he makes a few questionable decisions here and there but does everyone understand that this idiot Koch is getting paid what is it? 6 MILLION dollars to come in there and get 3 outs? 3 OUTS... This is his job and he cannot do it therefore he should be fired. This is all on Koch.I give Ozzie credit for trying to build his player's confidence but now it's past the breaking point. Koch cannot close. If Koch is put back in, then Ozzie is making a horrible horrible decision... What a waste of a week in terms of White Sox baseball.... Hopefully, we can bounce back from this.

I agree about not blaming Ozzie, but I hope he wasn't putting him in to build his confidence. That's okay in ST, but he better have his own confidence (and Ozzie's) by this point in the season.

OEO Magglio
06-07-2004, 12:12 AM
Ok, I've been a huge koch supporter but enough. This could have been one heck of a roadtrip instead it's an awful one. Some how, some way kenny has to trade billy and get a closer or a setup man. Enough of billy and this game really hurts. I was so excited to be able to watch the sox while I'm on vacation in new york and then this happens. :angry: :angry: :angry:

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan78
I think fans of the south side all let out a collective "Oh No" when they showed Billy Koch in the bottom of the ninth

Thats what that was? I thought it sounded more like grown men crying hidden in a closet

Frankfan4life
06-07-2004, 12:15 AM
What really broke my heart was that Koch actually got the first out. I was cheering at that point!!! I actually thought Koch would get the save.

Now I wish he had just thrown three straight home run pitches and gotten it over with. That would have been a kinder, gentler way of blowing the save.

FoulTerritory
06-07-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by mendozaln
I agree about not blaming Ozzie, but I hope he wasn't putting him in to build his confidence. That's okay in ST, but he better have his own confidence (and Ozzie's) by this point in the season.

By almost all accounts, Ozze has been an excellent manager thus far, and has been in a difficult situation in dealing with Koch. But this is the point where, if he keeps putitng him in there in closer situations, it officially becomes horrid managing. Koch's ineptetude has been clear to most since last year, but Ozzie wasn't here last year. But at this point, it has to be crystal clear to Ozzie that Koch is incompetant. Not only is he the worst releiver on our team, he's likely the worst releiver in our division.

Nellie Comiskey
06-07-2004, 12:15 AM
As if it matters...I was refering to Wednesday's game in which the Sox had a one run lead in the ninth. We'd actually be at two if he could actually close. Bottom line he's a bum and couldn't close a door. :angry:

South Side
06-07-2004, 12:16 AM
Since Maggs is in Chicago, do you think he was just sitting there watching it like everyone crying with his head in his hands?

Lip Man 1
06-07-2004, 12:16 AM
With respect to all here's what really hurts.

The Twins who have been decimated by injuries all season long and who have lost something like ten of the last fourteen games only trail the Sox by one game.

The Sox have one serious injury this season (two if you count Jose' missing two weeks) and things seem to be going downhill rapidly for them.


Lip

cheeses_h_rice
06-07-2004, 12:16 AM
Sox lose 4 of 5 AGAIN on the West Coast trip. That's one thing that can't stand, I think, if this team is to experience true success and domination within the world of b-ball.

Brian26
06-07-2004, 12:17 AM
Rooney and Farmer got into a bit of a disagreement at the end of the broadcast.

Farmer: "Koch will have to get him next time."

Rooney: "Will there be a next time?"

Farmer: "Yes."

Rooney: "I think Ozzie Guillen has some decisions to make, especially after Shingo's 8th inning."


Bottom line- this was PATHETIC.

Melty and Willsy talking about Koch not being able to hold anyone on base.

Scouts were probably having a field day with this one.

Koch blew it in every way, shape and form. His fastball didn't get by anyone. He had no control. He couldn't keep anyone on base. It was a total meltdown.

Kilroy
06-07-2004, 12:17 AM
I was gonna watch the bottom of the 9th until I saw Koch out there. I switched to video and watched my tape of the Sopranos. I've had enuf of Koch's b.s. to last me a ****ing lifetime. And at this point it is becoming less Koch's fault and more Ozzie's. STOP RUNNING HIS SORRY ASS OUT THERE.

vegyrex
06-07-2004, 12:17 AM
Enough is enough. :angry:

CanOfCorn
06-07-2004, 12:18 AM
I have no problem with Ozzie leaving starters in. I especially like how he's letting Garland wear the big-boy pants.

I'm not usually one to get down on our own guys, but then again, I don't catch many games here in Missouri. I watched tonight's train wreck, and I'm coming to accept the idea that Koch has got to go.

Right now, I'd just be happy with getting somebody to shave off the pubes on his chin. It worked when he threw 100, but now it's like somebody in a leather Harley jacket riding a tricycle.

Navaro's Talent
06-07-2004, 12:18 AM
I defended Koch when he lost the save in Oakland because he hadn't had a save opportunity in a while, but this one is inexcusable. Loaiza should be 7-3 right now with maybe only one or two wins away from a spot on the All-Star roster, but Billy had other plans today. I just don't get it. Last year, he was terrible, but things were looking okay this season. He was getting the saves, and he only gave up minimal damage when doing so. Now, when we need everyone on the team to step up with Ordonez out, he is reminding me of what he was last year. I want to believe in Koch, but I will go with what many already said. It's time for Shingo.

Brian26
06-07-2004, 12:21 AM
I don't understand why Melton is so against Shingo becoming our closer.

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Im just hoping this isnt a relapse of last year in tampa when we hit a major slide when botch blew it then for us.

Wake up man, we already are in a big slide man!

mendozaln
06-07-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by FoulTerritory
By almost all accounts, Ozze has been an excellent manager thus far, and has been in a difficult situation in dealing with Koch. But this is the point where, if he keeps putitng him in there in closer situations, it officially becomes horrid managing. Koch's ineptetude has been clear to most since last year, but Ozzie wasn't here last year. But at this point, it has to be crystal clear to Ozzie that Koch is incompetant. Not only is he the worst releiver on our team, he's likely the worst releiver in our division.

Oh, I'm not arguing that he should keep getting into the game (see my earlier post). I'm only saying that, up to this point, including today, I can see the argument for putting him in. (So I think we agree on this.)

Win1ForMe
06-07-2004, 12:22 AM
Melton: "The bullpen let us down on this trip."

No idiot, Koch let us down on this trip.

elrod
06-07-2004, 12:24 AM
What exactly is the logic behind not making Shingo the closer right now. He was a bigtime closer in Japan so he obviously has the mind for it. His stuff is unhittable, including those who've seen it already (Dye in Oakland batted twice against him). Why all the bravado about "sticking with your closer". The only way Koch is a closer is by allowing the other team to win in the last at-bat. That's not the kind of closer we want.

mendozaln
06-07-2004, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
I don't understand why Melton is so against Shingo becoming our closer.

Especially when he said that Koch's performance was 'not major league baseball' (something like that).

South Side
06-07-2004, 12:25 AM
The bull pen was stellar. Koch makes me sick. How does the rest of the team not just jump him when he walks into the clubhouse? I feel bad for everyone else on the Sox.

DSpivack
06-07-2004, 12:25 AM
Um, Mr. Balvasi, can we get some Eddie with our Freddy?

mdep524
06-07-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I can admit when I am wrong. Billy has to go.

fuzzy, this is what seperates you from KW and Ozzie. You are rational, open minded and not stubborn.

Dadawg_77
06-07-2004, 12:27 AM
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.

idseer
06-07-2004, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
I don't understand why Melton is so against Shingo becoming our closer.

maybe melton is more proof that being able to play and being able to run things are 2 completely separate things.

maybe he doesn't like the japanese.

maybe he one of kw's whipping boys and will not rock the boat.


in any evernt ... he's WRONG!

FoulTerritory
06-07-2004, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.


Shoudln't that be in teal?

South Side
06-07-2004, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.

Uhhhhh....

Win1ForMe
06-07-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.

You have got to be kidding me?

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by South Side
Since Maggs is in Chicago, do you think he was just sitting there watching it like everyone crying with his head in his hands?

http://ikjeld.com/features/koshien/images/101415-crying_player.jpg

OEO Magglio
06-07-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.
He's 8 for 11 and thats awful. I thought billy could be descent this year but he sucks. It's time for shingo to become the closer for the time.

Brian26
06-07-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.

There's NO defending what happened tonight. He didn't show ANYTHING worthwhile or positive. It was a complete and utter meltdown. After giving up the hits AND the stolen bases, he even walked in the winning run. He couldn't even throw a strike when he had to. It was a joke. There's no defending it. Of the 7 saves, how many times did he give up hits and runs but still get the save because the Sox had more than a 1 run or 2 run lead? This guy shouldn't be pitching in the majors at this point.

idseer
06-07-2004, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.


holy COW!

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I was gonna watch the bottom of the 9th until I saw Koch out there. I switched to video and watched my tape of the Sopranos. I've had enuf of Koch's b.s. to last me a ****ing lifetime. And at this point it is becoming less Koch's fault and more Ozzie's. STOP RUNNING HIS SORRY ASS OUT THERE.


I hope simpsons boosted yer spirits, it was a good ep, the only good thing for today

"Ran out of triple A batteries so im whittling this D battery to size"

fuzzy_patters
06-07-2004, 12:32 AM
:tomatoaward

DSpivack
06-07-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
I hope simpsons boosted yer spirits, it was a good ep, the only good thing for today

"Ran out of triple A batteries so im whittling this D battery to size"

AAA Battery= Billy Koch?

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by elrod
What exactly is the logic behind not making Shingo the closer right now. He was a bigtime closer in Japan so he obviously has the mind for it. His stuff is unhittable, including those who've seen it already (Dye in Oakland batted twice against him). Why all the bravado about "sticking with your closer". The only way Koch is a closer is by allowing the other team to win in the last at-bat. That's not the kind of closer we want.


Also, the reason why shingo decided to come to the sox was cuz he was told he would be a closer. He had other offers but they were for set up\relief roles.

South Side
06-07-2004, 12:34 AM
The fact is that when he WALKED IN THE WINNING RUN (in case you all didn't catch that) he didn't even look all that upset. What the hell Koch you single handedly LOST the game!!

Dadawg_77
06-07-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by FoulTerritory
Shoudln't that be in teal?

Teal takes the fun out of it, plus I am giving Frater my ration.

FoulTerritory
06-07-2004, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Teal takes the fun out of it, plus I am give Frater my ration.


LOL!

Dadawg_77
06-07-2004, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
Man, I don't know which has had a bigger fall from grace, Koch or The Simpsons.

At least the Simpsons can pitch a gem once.

DSpivack
06-07-2004, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
At least the Simpsons can pitch a gem once.

Homers in Springfield are much more fun than homers in Oakland.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.

Yeah, giving up 4 stolen bases in 1 inning and walking a GAME WINNING RUN in. That merits some congrats from us doesnt it. I suppose we should also give rauch a standing ovation for his pitching\actions. After all, rauch is ONLY 0-1. Also to mention, out of those 4 blown saves, how many of them was in this series against the al west


edit-since now you can hit refresh and have a updated post ready, if this was ment to be in teal then i can laugh

pudge
06-07-2004, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.

I hope that was supposed to be in teal!

Frankfan4life
06-07-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative.
What! Are you happy?

Listen, it's one thing to blow a save against a hard-hitting team like the Yankees, but to give a bad-hitting team like Seattle this kind of win is pathetic. A closer is supposed to be able to win close games against good teams and the bad teams should be a piece of cake.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
Homers in Springfield are much more fun than homers in Oakland.


Speakin of simpsons, is there a klingon word for dissapointment with todays game?

idseer
06-07-2004, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Speakin of simpsons, is there a klingon word for dissapointment with todays game?

AAAAHHHCHHHH KOCHHHH BOTCHHHHHHH!

DSpivack
06-07-2004, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Speakin of simpsons, is there a klingon word for dissapointment with todays game?

The only word that I can describe it is Bergelfleckel.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack
The only word that I can describe it is Bergelfleckel.


Travshamockery?

Also, please dont make up words, remember folks, klingon is an actual language, they did make a dictionary

JRIG
06-07-2004, 12:54 AM
By the way, Koch now has more blown saves than Joe Borowski, 3 to 2.

Maybe a trip to the DL is in store. Anything to get him off the roster.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
By the way, Koch now has more blown saves than Joe Borowski, 3 to 2.

Maybe a trip to the DL is in store. Anything to get him off the roster.

Just lie and say he has an arm problem, put him on the dl and never reactivate him again. If he threatens to go to the player union, give him a unecessary surgical procedure

jeremyb1
06-07-2004, 01:03 AM
What's really sad in my opinion is that there was next to no chance of our organization and many Sox fans realizing Koch was worthless prior to the start of the season. Come on. Did this really need to happen to convince people he should be pitching in high leverage situations?

Lip Man 1
06-07-2004, 01:05 AM
Maybe Billy angered the 'baseball gods' when before even throwing his first pitch for the Sox he talked about how 'lucky' the Twins were.

Lip

1951Campbell
06-07-2004, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man I hate this board after a loss, I mean Billy is still 7/11 in saves. He isn't this bad. Everyone is just so negative. '


Man, that's the WSI post of the week...in Bizarro World.

illiniwhitesox
06-07-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
By the way, Koch now has more blown saves than Joe Borowski, 3 to 2.

Maybe a trip to the DL is in store. Anything to get him off the roster.

Anyone thinking about a Nancy Kerrigan like incident to get the DL process moving?

illiniwhitesox
06-07-2004, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
'

Whatever you are smoking, I would like some of it. Obviously reality is not a world you play in.


Man, that's the WSI post of the week...in Bizarro World.

mantis1212
06-07-2004, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
There's NO defending what happened tonight. He didn't show ANYTHING worthwhile or positive. It was a complete and utter meltdown. After giving up the hits AND the stolen bases, he even walked in the winning run. He couldn't even throw a strike when he had to. It was a joke. There's no defending it. Of the 7 saves, how many times did he give up hits and runs but still get the save because the Sox had more than a 1 run or 2 run lead? This guy shouldn't be pitching in the majors at this point.

Billy didn't stand a chance tonight! Did anyone else notice how surprised Joe Morgan was at "all the great swings everyone is getting" off of Koch? "He's not fooling anybody" was another quote from Morgan, who can be considered independent. That was just the foul balls!! It was also funny (BUT SAD FOR US) how he analyzed why Alomar was lining up inside AND KOCH MISSED HIS SPOT BY A FOOT EVERY TIME

I view this game as a blessing in disguise. There's just no way Billy's gonna close another game (Should that be in deeppink?). I'm hoping this decision will be made before the pennant race is over/before any playoff games.

WhiteSox = Life
06-07-2004, 01:20 AM
I've mentioned before I always feel more creative after a Sox loss (and the bigger the f-up, the more the juices start a-flowin'), so excuse the roughness, and...

With all due respect to the Spinners:

Games Billy Blows

Can’t get no rest
Don’t know how I work all day
When we he learn?
Billy Koch gets in the way
My head goes ‘round
Madder than I’m down, head in a cloud, but I
Can see it all
Another blown game and another blown game, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
There’s not a single excuse… Well, I

Spent all the day
Anticipating the game
But ol’ Bil-lay
Came and pulled up very lame
I guess I’ll find
The love, peace of mind, some other time, but I
Still have this night
To think about the plight, spend all in fright, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
There’s not a single excuse

Games Billy blows
The Pale Hose, it’s painful watchin’
Ozzie needs to
Help me cure these blues
Done well so long
Right, wrong, Billy can’t stop ‘em
Spendin’ all day
Thinkin’ Takatsu

Ten twenty-five
Bloomquist walks from third to home
I rubbed my eyes
‘Cause a walk closed down Safeco
Still they remain
It has a funny sound, took a look around, and they
Still had first place
Sox were in charge, and playin’ at large, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
Just creatin’ more foes

Games Billy blows
The Pale Hose, it’s painful watchin’
Ozzie needs to
Help me cure these blues
Done well so long
Right, wrong, Billy can’t stop ‘em
Spendin’ all day
Thinkin’ Takatsu

Games Billy blows
Still they remain
It has a funny sound, took a look around, and they
Still had first place
Sox were in charge, and playin’ at large, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
‘Cause a goat really shows

Games Billy blows
The Pale Hose, it’s painful watchin’
Ozzie needs to
Help me cure these blues
Done well so long
Right, wrong, Billy can’t stop ‘em
Spendin’ all day
Thinkin’ Takatsu

frankochal
06-07-2004, 01:20 AM
The best would be to replace Koch with Mike Jackson. He has had 40 save seasons in the past, has pitched well this year and the other bullpen pitchers could all remain in their current roles.
Frank

mdep524
06-07-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
What's really sad in my opinion is that there was next to no chance of our organization and many Sox fans realizing Koch was worthless prior to the start of the season. Come on. Did this really need to happen to convince people he should be pitching in high leverage situations?

You're right, that's the saddest part. I have no sympathy for the Sox (specifically KW and Ozzie), if you're going to REPEATEDLY be that stubborn and stupid to keep putting Koch out there, you get what you deserve. It makes me embarrased to be a Sox fan.

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by frankochal
The best would be to replace Koch with Mike Jackson. He has had 40 save seasons in the past, has pitched well this year and the other bullpen pitchers could all remain in their current roles.
Frank

What pisses me off is how we're stuck with nobody and other teams can just throw anyone out there and get it done. Arthur Rhodes, Joe Nathan, Jose Mesa....bullcrap. There's gotta be someone on this team with half a nut that can hold a lead for an inning twice a week.

Frankfan4life
06-07-2004, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
I've mentioned before I always feel more creative after a Sox loss (and the bigger the f-up, the more the juices start a-flowin'), so excuse the roughness, and...

With all due respect to the Spinners:

Games Billy Blows

Can’t get no rest
Don’t know how I work all day
When we he learn?
Billy Koch gets in the way
My head goes ‘round
Madder than I’m down, head in a cloud, but I
Can see it all
Another blown game and another blown game, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
There’s not a single excuse… Well, I

Spent all the day
Anticipating the game
But ol’ Bil-lay
Came and pulled up very lame
I guess I’ll find
The love, peace of mind, some other time, but I
Still have this night
To think about the plight, spend all in fright, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
There’s not a single excuse

Games Billy blows
The Pale Hose, it’s painful watchin’
Ozzie needs to
Help me cure these blues
Done well so long
Right, wrong, Billy can’t stop ‘em
Spendin’ all day
Thinkin’ Takatsu

Ten twenty-five
Bloomquist walks from third to home
I rubbed my eyes
‘Cause a walk closed down Safeco
Still they remain
It has a funny sound, took a look around, and they
Still had first place
Sox were in charge, and playin’ at large, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
Just creatin’ more foes

Games Billy blows
The Pale Hose, it’s painful watchin’
Ozzie needs to
Help me cure these blues
Done well so long
Right, wrong, Billy can’t stop ‘em
Spendin’ all day
Thinkin’ Takatsu

Games Billy blows
Still they remain
It has a funny sound, took a look around, and they
Still had first place
Sox were in charge, and playin’ at large, so I
Hope the right move
Ozzie does choose
‘Cause a goat really shows

Games Billy blows
The Pale Hose, it’s painful watchin’
Ozzie needs to
Help me cure these blues
Done well so long
Right, wrong, Billy can’t stop ‘em
Spendin’ all day
Thinkin’ Takatsu
Nice melody, easy to dance to, I give it a 75 Dick!

Unregistered
06-07-2004, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
What pisses me off is how we're stuck with nobody and other teams can just throw anyone out there and get it done. Arthur Rhodes, Joe Nathan, Jose Mesa....bullcrap. There's gotta be someone on this team with half a nut that can hold a lead for an inning twice a week. That's what I'm saying. At this point, I honestly think ANYONE else in our pen can do a better job than Billy. From a pitching standpoint, Koch has no faith or confidence in his stuff, walking too many guys, overthinking, etc. From an opponent's hitting standpoint, EVERYONE knows Koch is struggling, and that BOOSTS their confidence and automatically acts as a momentum shift in their favor when he comes in.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2004, 01:31 AM
Mdep says: "You're right, that's the saddest part. I have no sympathy for the Sox (specifically KW and Ozzie), if you're going to REPEATEDLY be that stubborn and stupid to keep putting Koch out there, you get what you deserve."

Remember them keeping Manager Gandhi because of salary considerations?

And to be honest this organization has a history over the past twenty years of refusing to be 'talked into' doing something (even if it makes sense) by the fans, media or player agents.

Lip

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
What pisses me off is how we're stuck with nobody and other teams can just throw anyone out there and get it done. Arthur Rhodes, Joe Nathan, Jose Mesa....bullcrap. There's gotta be someone on this team with half a nut that can hold a lead for an inning twice a week.

Rhodes is an example of someone....Who has been even worse than Koch this year!!! Rhodes has blown 4 in 12 opportunities and blew back to back games against Cleveland May 29th and 30th.

Percival's been pretty bad too, blowing 4 in 17 opportunities including a 3 run lead. He also gave up two in his last save opp.

What I'm saying is other serious playoff-calibur teams have had bullpen trouble about as bad as we have and look at both teams, they've both been able to rebound from it. We're going to rebound as well.

batmanZoSo
06-07-2004, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Rhodes is an example of someone....Who has been even worse than Koch this year!!! Rhodes has blown 4 in 12 opportunities and blew back to back games against Cleveland May 29th and 30th.

Percival's been pretty bad too, blowing 4 in 17 opportunities including a 3 run lead. He also gave up two in his last save opp.

What I'm saying is other serious playoff-calibur teams have had bullpen trouble about as bad as we have and look at both teams, they've both been able to rebound from it. We're going to rebound as well.

I don't think anyone's as bad as Foulke. Rhodes is crappy, but not Koch crappy. The other two I mentioned have been pretty stellar.

samram
06-07-2004, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Rhodes is an example of someone....Who has been even worse than Koch this year!!! Rhodes has blown 4 in 12 opportunities and blew back to back games against Cleveland May 29th and 30th.

Percival's been pretty bad too, blowing 4 in 17 opportunities including a 3 run lead. He also gave up two in his last save opp.

What I'm saying is other serious playoff-calibur teams have had bullpen trouble about as bad as we have and look at both teams, they've both been able to rebound from it. We're going to rebound as well.

The difference is Percival has been hurt and finally went on the DL today- when he comes back, you know he'll be solid. On the other hand, until Ozzie says otherwise, Koch is the guy, and no one has any confidence in him, including his teammates, I'm sure. Not to mention that in the past this has been the type of game that puts this team in a tailspin for about a week. Hopefully, being at home will get the offense going again to the point they don't have to worry about a closer for a few days.

WhiteSox = Life
06-07-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Frankfan4life
Nice melody, easy to dance to, I give it a 75 Dick!

You think I'd know what that means, but I honestly don't. Care to explain it?

StillMissOzzie
06-07-2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by illiniwhitesox
Anyone thinking about a Nancy Kerrigan like incident to get the DL process moving?

Maybe a few of the starters will give him the bar-of-soap-in-a-sock "massage" on the plane trip home, and he will be "mysteriously unavailable" for an undetermined stretch after that. Seriously, I hope Ozzie has learned by now that Koch is simply unusable. If KW won't move his rear end, let him fester in the bullpen for mop-up duty. I don't care how much of a stand-up guy he is for the media when he fails, he's hurting the team too much.

Two blown saves on the roadtrip is the last straw. And while I agree that he should have been protecting a 3, 4, or 5 run lead instead of a 1-run lead in Oakland, he knew what his job was and what the situation was when he got the ball in Oakland, and he failed. I hope tonight's mega-flop on ESPN has been enough to shame KW and / Ozzie about using Koch as a closer.

SMO
:angry:

tstrike2000
06-07-2004, 02:03 AM
Sox aren't going to win the division. Ozzie using useless pieces of garbage like Krotch, saying on air on national tv that you switch pitchers so your kids can see you on tv from Florida. There's so many other reason's, it's not even funny. That's why my signature is what it is!

WSox8404
06-07-2004, 02:06 AM
We can't put Shingo in there for the ninth. Are you guys crazy? Being the all time saves leader in Japan does not mean that you have the mentality to close out ballgames.

Frankfan4life
06-07-2004, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
You think I'd know what that means, but I honestly don't. Care to explain it?
Sure, if I can recall it correctly. There was a show called American Bandstand (unless you're over 30, you may not remember that show) the host, Dick Clark, had a segment called "Rate A Record." They would play two new records and after hearing them, two pimply-faced teenagers would rate the records. Most of them would say almost the same thing after rating the record, something like, "It has a great beat, I can dance to it, I give it a 78, Dick." Maybe someone who was more of a fan of the show can explain it better.

Actually, I was trying to pay your song a compliment. I liked it.

MRKARNO
06-07-2004, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by tstrike2000
Sox aren't going to win the division. Ozzie using useless pieces of garbage like Krotch, saying on air on national tv that you switch pitchers so your kids can see you on tv from Florida. There's so many other reason's, it's not even funny. That's why my signature is what it is!

I still think we're going to win this division and we could still do it comfortably, but the longer Koch is in, the more unneccesarily close it will be. Down the stretch our sked is so much easier than the Twins that even if we totally melt down this month and end up 2 games out we're still not really in bad shape. I think we'll be up about 2 or 3 games still at the end of the month, but this team could easily falter.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Rhodes is an example of someone....Who has been even worse than Koch this year!!! Rhodes has blown 4 in 12 opportunities and blew back to back games against Cleveland May 29th and 30th.

Percival's been pretty bad too, blowing 4 in 17 opportunities including a 3 run lead. He also gave up two in his last save opp.

What I'm saying is other serious playoff-calibur teams have had bullpen trouble about as bad as we have and look at both teams, they've both been able to rebound from it. We're going to rebound as well.

Percival is on the dl now, so he's proven to be hurt now. Rhodes is an example of a team panicing and tryin to find anyone to be a solid reliever\closer. Wheres Rod Beck and his mobile home now.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
Maybe a few of the starters will give him the bar-of-soap-in-a-sock "massage" on the plane trip home, and he will be "mysteriously unavailable" for an undetermined stretch after that. Seriously, I hope Ozzie has learned by now that Koch is simply unusable. If KW won't move his rear end, let him fester in the bullpen for mop-up duty. I don't care how much of a stand-up guy he is for the media when he fails, he's hurting the team too much.

Two blown saves on the roadtrip is the last straw. And while I agree that he should have been protecting a 3, 4, or 5 run lead instead of a 1-run lead in Oakland, he knew what his job was and what the situation was when he got the ball in Oakland, and he failed. I hope tonight's mega-flop on ESPN has been enough to shame KW and / Ozzie about using Koch as a closer.

SMO
:angry:

AP-White sox report today the placing of closer billy koch on the 60 day dl after he was found in his room with broken ribs and multiple contusions over his body. General manager Ken Williams was unable to be reached for a comment, and officials claim they do not have a cause to his injuries. Found in the room as clues were a folded towel, splintered bat and the reminants of Billy Koch's finger.

WhiteSox = Life
06-07-2004, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by Frankfan4life
Sure, if I can recall it correctly. There was a show called American Bandstand (unless you're over 30, you may not remember that show) the host, Dick Clark, had a segment called "Rate A Record." They would play two new records and after hearing them, two pimply-faced teenagers would rate the records. Most of them would say almost the same thing after rating the record, something like, "It has a great beat, I can dance to it, I give it a 78, Dick." Maybe someone who was more of a fan of the show can explain it better.

Actually, I was trying to pay your song a compliment. I liked it.

I certainly know of the show, but have not had the fortune to ever see an episode (you would think TV Land or some similar network would get the rights and show the episodes because I would absolutely watch them). This may be tied to the fact that I am 17. It is quite possible, in my estimation.

I originally understood the positive connation of the compliment, and I was remiss not to say "thank you" in my earlier post, letting ambiguity run amok. Sounds like a good explanation to me, though I guess you had to be there to fully grasp it, huh?

Again, thank you, and it's a little something I try to do occasionally here at WSI to liven up the spirits. It doesn't always work (I'd surmise), but it gives me a chance to delve into an oldie every once in a while and work on my writing.

:smile:

tstrike2000
06-07-2004, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by WSox8404
We can't put Shingo in there for the ninth. Are you guys crazy? Being the all time saves leader in Japan does not mean that you have the mentality to close out ballgames.

Huh!?!? We can't put Shingo in as the closer? Shingo has pitched amazing when he's come in. Do you think that if he comes in at the end instead of the 8th, he's gonna be like, "Oh crap, I'm closing the game, not coming in in the 8th inning. I don't know if I can handle this added responsibility." How much more mentality do you need? Just throw strikes and change speeds. Since he already does that, that's not a problem. We wouldn't be asking him to come up with a cure for cancer.

WhiteSox = Life
06-07-2004, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by tstrike2000
Huh!?!? We can't put Shingo in as the closer? Shingo has pitched amazing when he's come in. Do you think that if he comes in at the end instead of the 8th, he's gonna be like, "Oh crap, I'm closing the game, not coming in in the 8th inning. I don't know if I can handle this added responsibility." How much more mentality do you need? Just throw strikes and change speeds. Since he already does that, that's not a problem. We wouldn't be asking him to come up with a cure for cancer.

Actually, tstrike, what WSox8404 typed was in teal, meaning that he was being sarcastic and didn't mean what he wrote. It's a little WSI niche.

Sorry if I'm appearing condescending if you knew that, but I wasn't sure based upon your post and would just like to clarify it so you understand for future references.

tstrike2000
06-07-2004, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Actually, tstrike, what WSox8404 typed was in teal, meaning that he was being sarcastic and didn't mean what he wrote. It's a little WSI niche.

Sorry if I'm appearing condescending if you knew that, but I wasn't sure based upon your post and would just like to clarify it so you understand for future references.

Oops!!! My bad!!!! I did not realize that. Sorry bout that. Ok, well it felt good to respond anyway.

WhiteSox = Life
06-07-2004, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by tstrike2000
Oops!!! My bad!!!! I did not realize that. Sorry bout that. Ok, well it felt good to respond anyway.

S'all good, man, s'all good. It's a bit difficult to pick up on some of the WSI quirks right away, but any Sox fan of the past few years can understand almost all of the material on the boards.

:hitless
"If only somebody could truly understand me."

:hurt
"Yeah, I can. To my understanding, you suck."

:jerry
"It's okay, Royce. I still love you."

pinwheels3530
06-07-2004, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
I am not going to another game this year as long as Billy Koch is our closer.


Don't start that crap :angry: I am pissed too but I still gotta support the SOX!

mdep524
06-07-2004, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
AP-White sox report today the placing of closer billy koch on the 60 day dl after he was found in his room with broken ribs and multiple contusions over his body. General manager Ken Williams was unable to be reached for a comment, and officials claim they do not have a cause to his injuries. Found in the room as clues were a folded towel, splintered bat and the reminants of Billy Koch's finger.

...and an over-turned buffet table which Koch was allegedly trapped beneath. No word yet on who the table flipper was, though Williams was seen shortly afterward with cantaloupe on his shirt and potato salad beneath his finger nails.

StockdaleForVeep
06-07-2004, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
...and an over-turned buffet table which Koch was allegedly trapped beneath. No word yet on who the table flipper was, though Williams was seen shortly afterward with cantaloupe on his shirt and potato salad beneath his finger nails.


....Police believe they have an eyewitness to the event in the name of Shingo Takatsu, but unable to answer questioning due to language problems

::Shingo's thoughts:: Gee....i guess this is How americans express friendship and condolences, by dismembering fellow teammates. Perhaps i should visit my good buddy Miguel.

SSN721
06-07-2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
...and an over-turned buffet table which Koch was allegedly trapped beneath. No word yet on who the table flipper was, though Williams was seen shortly afterward with cantaloupe on his shirt and potato salad beneath his finger nails.

Outside the club house some said they could have sworn hearing very loud yelling along with the commotion. Repeated cries of, "All a bunch of bitches and mother****ers!" were reported by several people within earshot of the incident. The police have several suspects, mud tracks from the clubhouse also point to the possibilty of Roger Bossard involved in the incident.....

PaulDrake
06-07-2004, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
And OZZIE and his inaction is getting on my nerves I don't believe that only a few noticed that. What was Ozzie thinking?? It was obvious very early that this was going to be a nightmare inning.

hsnterprize
06-07-2004, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by Navaro's Talent
I defended Koch when he lost the save in Oakland because he hadn't had a save opportunity in a while, but this one is inexcusable. Loaiza should be 7-3 right now with maybe only one or two wins away from a spot on the All-Star roster, but Billy had other plans today. I just don't get it. Last year, he was terrible, but things were looking okay this season. He was getting the saves, and he only gave up minimal damage when doing so. Now, when we need everyone on the team to step up with Ordonez out, he is reminding me of what he was last year. I want to believe in Koch, but I will go with what many already said. It's time for Shingo. I excused Koch's blown save on Wednedsay in Oakland because the Sox offense totally crapped that day. The Sox left the bases loaded twice, and left 14 runners on base. Albeit he's supposed to hold a lead, a 2-1 lead going into the bottom of the 9th isn't too safe unless you have someone like Gange or Rivera relieving you. So I wasn't too upset with that.

No matter the west-coast trip statistics...there was simply NO EXCUSE for that loss last night. That was simply unacceptible, and I truly hope the Sox will do something about this. Giving away games in the last innings won't cut it towards winning a division.

We laughed when Joe Borowski blew the Cubs game Saturday...I guess they're finding good reason to return the favor.

Iguana775
06-07-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
I don't believe that only a few noticed that. What was Ozzie thinking?? It was obvious very early that this was going to be a nightmare inning.

maybe he is trying to make a point to KW. lol.

Baby Fisk
06-07-2004, 09:27 AM
I honestly, seriously contemplated the act of hurling a blunt object at the TV last night. That's scary. Luckily, I calmed down enough to just slam down some scotch instead. Damn you Billy Koch! You will ruin my health! :angry:

PaulDrake
06-07-2004, 09:46 AM
It has a great beat, I can dance to it, I give it a 78, Dick." Maybe someone who was more of a fan of the show can explain it better. I'm so old I remember the original American Bandstand out of Philadelphia. I remember a slightly different variation "It's got a good beat. It's easy to dance to. I give it a (fill in the blank for grade usually in the 78-82 range.)

Jerko
06-07-2004, 10:03 AM
Well, the one good thing about Koch last night is that now I know that I have the talent to drive in a game winning run in the Major Leagues.............. even I could just stand there and get walked with the bags jammed. For the record, Gagne is the only guy with NO blown saves, so comparing Koch to Graves and Percival is wrong because Graves has blown 4 or 5 saves in about 31 chances, not 14 chances, and as mentioned before, Percival is hurt.

DrCrawdad
06-07-2004, 10:12 AM
Because if something didn't die last night then at least a part of me did.

ode to veeck
06-07-2004, 11:16 AM
Lip wrote: But looking past the Koch problems, the other reality is this team is dropping back into a hitting funk again . 16 runs total in five games. That's an average of 3.2 runs per game.

In the two games in Oakland they had plenty of hits, but just couldn't get the runs across, esp the 6/2 game where batters had 14 LOB & left 20 RISP.

I didn't really blame the closers after the two games in Oakland, cause the Sox hitters had three extra innings to get one across in the first game, and the 20 RISP in game two, but now the three blown saves in a week is starting to stand out like Royce and Ramirez batting .200 together in the lineup a couple of years back.

One other note for Ozzie after yesterday's game: think twice about the PH for Olivo and bring in Sandy move late in the game when you're trying to protect a lead. Sandy can't even get off a throw half the time, whereas Olivo has the capability to gun down the runner. I like Sandy's experience behind the plate and his history of clutch hits, but we gotta realize his liabilities and not expose ourselves.

I think we also ought to be thinking the opposite way in Sandy starts, i.e. start bringing in Olivo in late innings in close games so teams can't automatically advance any runners that get on base.

Yeah, Koch blew the game, but having runners dance freely to 2nd and 3rd doesn't make it any easier.