PDA

View Full Version : *Official* Sox/M's Postgame thread: June 5


RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 06:09 PM
Crede Sucks!

I was a big supporter of Crede ever since he was in Low A ball. I like his glove, but what the hell is wrong with him at the plate? He looks even more lost then Lee does during a slump. I've seen Crede go through a few slumps, but he looks like he dont even belong here at times this year. This is my first Crede bashing thread. I'm truly disgusted. :angry:

Willie
06-05-2004, 06:10 PM
By far the easiest out in the Majors right now, including pitchers. I've never seen a player looks so bad at the plate.

Bucktown
06-05-2004, 06:10 PM
This is what we were saying about Carlos Lee 5 weeks ago.

FarWestChicago
06-05-2004, 06:11 PM
Hijacked your thread for the post game depression thread, Red. Seemed like a good one. :smile:

A. Cavatica
06-05-2004, 06:12 PM
How are all you who defended the Burke callup doin'? Especially those of you who said it didn't matter, he's only the 25th man, he's not going to play.

BearSox
06-05-2004, 06:12 PM
What was the logic in bringing in Burke?

Willie
06-05-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
This is what we were saying about Carlos Lee 5 weeks ago.

Carlos wasn't this bad for this long though. No where near. In his last 25 games he has 2 HR and 8 RBI and a .200 average in over the course of the last month and change. THat is AWFUL. Carlos had problems for a week and a half. There is a big difference.

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Hijacked your thread for the post game depression thread, Red. Seemed like a good one. :smile:

I was wondering where it went. :smile: It's a good start for a bitching thread

chisoxfan79
06-05-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by BearSox
What was the logic in bringing in Burke?

What was the logic? He has to keep Willie in there he could have possibly worked a walk and the let Uribe bat who mashes lefties.

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by BearSox
What was the logic in bringing in Burke?

I was wondering the same. What was he going to do if they tied the game up? Play RF? This is one example why Reed should have came up instead. 3 catchers is rediculous when you have a stud like Olivo as the main catcher.

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
This is what we were saying about Carlos Lee 5 weeks ago.

Carlos didnt look this bad for this long. Dransfeld has more of a clue then Crede up there.

Jjav829
06-05-2004, 06:20 PM
Only one more game of west coast baseball left, thankfully. Let's give it a run on Sunday night, and get the hell out of there!!

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Only one more game of west coast baseball left, thankfully. Let's give it a run on Sunday night, and get the hell out of there!!

I'd be happy with 2 out of 3. What's the match up? Loaiza and?

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
How are all you who defended the Burke callup doin'? Especially those of you who said it didn't matter, he's only the 25th man, he's not going to play. What because he made one out?

Willie
06-05-2004, 06:23 PM
The fact that Jaime Burke was the only option to pinch hit was not the reason we lost this game. THe reason we lost this game is because our hitters aren't coming up in big situations. Our offense is really bad right now. We need our players to start stepping up like the Twins players and replacements did when they went down with injury earlier in the year.

3.25 runs per game out west this week. THat won't get the job done. TOmorrow is a big game. We can't afford to lose a series to the worst team in the AL.

Willie
06-05-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
How are all you who defended the Burke callup doin'? Especially those of you who said it didn't matter, he's only the 25th man, he's not going to play.

Yeah. He really lost the game.

chisoxfan79
06-05-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Willie
The fact that Jaime Burke was the only option to pinch hit was not the reason we lost this game. THe reason we lost this game is because our hitters aren't coming up in big situations. Our offense is really bad right now. We need our players to start stepping up like the Twins players and replacements did when they went down with injury earlier in the year.

3.25 runs per game out west this week. THat won't get the job done. TOmorrow is a big game. We can't afford to lose a series to the worst team in the AL.
Seven straight loses pn Saturday

Jjav829
06-05-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I'd be happy with 2 out of 3. What's the match up? Loaiza and?

Moyer. Doesn't bode too well for us if we go on how well hes pitched against us in recent years. I'll take 2 out of 5 and won't consider it too much of a letdown. Let's hope they can hit Moyer tomorrow in front of the national audience.

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
What because he made one out?

I think Reed could serve a better purpose. No, burke is not the reason we lost.

SoxEd
06-05-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by chisoxfan79
Seven straight loses pn Saturday

So we are hexed on the West Coast, and on Saturdays?

Anyone know any Witches?

A. Cavatica
06-05-2004, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
What because he made one out?

Not because Burke made one out...because the Sox brain trust brought up a third catcher who can't hit, didn't use him to catch, and used him as a pinch hitter in a crucial situation.

This underscores my point: the Sox need a hitter to replace Magglio, not a journeyman third catcher.

gosox41
06-05-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I was wondering the same. What was he going to do if they tied the game up? Play RF? This is one example why Reed should have came up instead. 3 catchers is rediculous when you have a stud like Olivo as the main catcher.


I got reamed in another thread I started for bashing KW and quesitoning the logic of bringing up Burke. Looks like Ozzie would rather play lefty/righty match ups with a AAA hitting .220 hitter then a red hot Willie.

Go figure.


Bob

PaleHoseGeorge
06-05-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I think Reed could serve a better purpose. No, burke is not the reason we lost.

Agreed. We lost because the middle of the Sox lineup (with one *big* exception) can't lay off the junk opposing pitchers serve up. That jerk Steve Lyons was running his mouth about it during the Fox telecast, too.

Some of our guys behave like taking a walk is beneath them or something.

:KW
"I never took walks, and that's what made me a hall of famer!"

:smile:

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by SoxEd
So we are hexed on the West Coast, and on Saturdays?

Anyone know any Witches?

Well let's just hope we continue to win in the last game of the series, but we have the west coast thing and the national TV thing going against us.

gosox41
06-05-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
How are all you who defended the Burke callup doin'? Especially those of you who said it didn't matter, he's only the 25th man, he's not going to play.

The logic of KW and Ozzie makes no sense. Burke wasn't the reason we lost, but Ozzie needs to put the right hitters in the right situations.



Bob

SoxEd
06-05-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well let's just hope we continue to win in the last game of the series, but we have the west coast thing and the national TV thing going against us.

I hope the Sox win tomorrow - the game is also on British TV, so I'll get to actually watch the team for a change!

Willie
06-05-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I got reamed in another thread I started for bashing KW and quesitoning the logic of bringing up Burke. Looks like Ozzie would rather play lefty/righty match ups with a AAA hitting .220 hitter then a red hot Willie.

Go figure.


Bob

Guardado has an .111 OBA against and .080 opponents slugging against left-handers. Yeah, Reed or Borchard would have really saved the day.

I'm pretty sure he put the right hitter in the right situation in that instance.

This game had nothing to do with Ozzie or Burke. It had to do with people like Crede and Konerko sucking in big situations. The offensive starters just didn't get the job done.

Win1ForMe
06-05-2004, 06:55 PM
Did you guys see that amazing graphic about Frank hitting .156 from the 7th inning on? I'm not sure if I caught that right... He's also appearantly not had a hit in the later innings since April 25th.

Today was pretty much a repeat of Wednesday's Oakland game. Too many opportunities wasted (2-10 with RISP, IIRC).

gosox41
06-05-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Willie
Guardado has an .111 OBA against and .080 opponents slugging against left-handers. Yeah, Reed or Borchard would have really saved the day.

I'm pretty sure he put the right hitter in the right situation in that instance.

This game had nothing to do with Ozzie or Burke. It had to do with people like Crede and Konerko sucking in big situations. The offensive starters just didn't get the job done.

I agree that Burke didn't lose the game for the team, but that doesn't mean he should have batted in the 9th inning.

Borchard, being a switch hitter, probably would have had a been a better choice to use in the situaiton, if you were going to hit for a red hot hitter.


Bob

Win1ForMe
06-05-2004, 06:59 PM
Also, anyone miss Hawk? Brenneman and Lyons were brutal, and I expect more of the same from Joe Morgan tomorrow.

gosox41
06-05-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Also, anyone miss Hawk? Bre nneman and Lyons were brutal, and I expect more of the same from Joe Morgan tomorrow.

I didn't miss Hawk. I missed DJ. At least he has some good insight. I'm sick of the cliches. Next time there's a game and Hawk's not announcing, give me a call and I'll do a Hawk play by play over the phone using his same 4-5 cliches.

:)


Bob

nasox
06-05-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I didn't miss Hawk. I missed DJ. At least he has some good insight. I'm sick of the cliches. Next time there's a game and Hawk's not announcing, give me a call and I'll do a Hawk play by play over the phone using his same 4-5 cliches.

:)


Bob

I totally disagree. I mean, hawkisms are used on sportscenter and all over the country when talking about the sox. I think hawk has some more juice left in him.

Voice of Reason
06-05-2004, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Willie
Guardado has an .111 OBA against and .080 opponents slugging against left-handers. Yeah, Reed or Borchard would have really saved the day.

Borchard is a switch hitter, therefore he would have been batting righthanded against Guardado.

Willie
06-05-2004, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
Borchard is a switch hitter, therefore he would have been batting righthanded against Guardado.

I know, but it was my understanding that he has more power from the left side, so hitting from the right side wouldn't have been that great. its all a moot point in my mind though.

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
Borchard is a switch hitter, therefore he would have been batting righthanded against Guardado.

I think Borchard is injured. Not major though.

mmmmmbeeer
06-05-2004, 08:25 PM
I thought Ozzie saying something about everyone on the team should be prepared to bunt.... so why wasn't Frank bunting in the 8th? 1st and 2nd, 0 out on 2 walks, down by 2. PERFECT situation to advance the runners and get the tying run in scoring position...but nope, instead we strand Willie, Juan, and even A-Row.

I know, I know, Frank's been hot with the bat, I don't care. That was a situation where those runners had to be advanced, no questions asked. Only a base hit or a bunt would get it done. Frank is a .300 hitter, so he's got a 1/3 chance of advancing them on a hit. I'd imagine his chances of getting a bunt down in fair territory are a whole lot better.

RedPinStripes
06-05-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by mmmmmbeeer
I thought Ozzie saying something about everyone on the team should be prepared to bunt.... so why wasn't Frank bunting in the 8th? 1st and 2nd, 0 out on 2 walks, down by 2. PERFECT situation to advance the runners and get the tying run in scoring position...but nope, instead we strand Willie, Juan, and even A-Row.

I know, I know, Frank's been hot with the bat, I don't care. That was a situation where those runners had to be advanced, no questions asked. Only a base hit or a bunt would get it done. Frank is a .300 hitter, so he's got a 1/3 chance of advancing them on a hit. I'd imagine his chances of getting a bunt down in fair territory are a whole lot better.

For the same reason Manny , Bonds, Bagwell, ect never attempt to bunt. Ever watch Carlos Lee attempt to bunt? It's always a pop up to the pitcher. Asking a power hitter to take a speed players role is always asking for trouble. I've never seen Frank try to bunt and i doubt he bunts in bp. Everyone would be ripping him if he tried and failed.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-05-2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by mmmmmbeeer
I thought Ozzie saying something about everyone on the team should be prepared to bunt.... so why wasn't Frank bunting in the 8th? 1st and 2nd, 0 out on 2 walks, down by 2. PERFECT situation to advance the runners and get the tying run in scoring position...but nope, instead we strand Willie, Juan, and even A-Row.

I know, I know, Frank's been hot with the bat, I don't care. That was a situation where those runners had to be advanced, no questions asked. Only a base hit or a bunt would get it done. Frank is a .300 hitter, so he's got a 1/3 chance of advancing them on a hit. I'd imagine his chances of getting a bunt down in fair territory are a whole lot better.

Frank has the highest on-base percentage on the team and a .298 batting average when he isn't drawing a walk. So your strategy would be to turn him into an automatic out, shorten the inning by at least one-third, and hope somebody else drives in those two runs?

Hey I watched the game too, and there wasn't anybody wearing a black shirt coming up with a timely hit. I'll take my chances playing with 27 outs, not 26.

jeremyb1
06-05-2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Willie
Carlos wasn't this bad for this long though. No where near. In his last 25 games he has 2 HR and 8 RBI and a .200 average in over the course of the last month and change. THat is AWFUL. Carlos had problems for a week and a half. There is a big difference.

Also when Carlos was hitting poorly he was walking at a very high clip. Crede's OBP is .249!!! Why can we have FOC and FOM but not Fans of Crede? Personally I think the idea of "fans of..." is ridiculous, I'd rather not spend my time talking down Sox players but the bottom line is Crede's production has not been up to par with the exception of his second half last season. This is the second year in a row he's been one of the four or five worst regulars in baseball during the first half. Why don't we send down Dransfeldt and Burke, move Uribe to 3B, and call up Reed and Borchard to man center and right until Maggs comes back. It'd give us time to look at Reed and Borchard and then decide which player to send down when Maggs is healthy.

FarWestChicago
06-05-2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Why can we have FOC and FOM but not Fans of Crede? Personally I think the idea of "fans of..." is ridiculous...It's BOM, Backers of Manos, those who stood agains the original "Friends Of", those of Buddly Lee. Just setting the history straight. :smile:

Win1ForMe
06-05-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Also when Carlos was hitting poorly he was walking at a very high clip. Crede's OBP is .249!!! Why can we have FOC and FOM but not Fans of Crede?

I propose we name them the FOCC- Friends of Corpseball Crede. And you know someone will respond with a "yeah, but he's clutch..." or some nonsense like that.

Crede has really become the 3B equivalent of Royce Clayton. It's funny how the FOCC have used Crede's defense as a rallying cry when the same (lame) reasoning was never used with respect to Clayton.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2004, 10:43 PM
Crede and Konerko are the players on the spot with Mags out a month.

Two or three guys hitting on your team in the American League isn't going to win you many games even with excellent starting pitching.

They've scored 12 runs on this road trip with the Phillies, Florida and the Cubs coming up.

Difficult time to lose Mags.

Lip

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Crede and Konerko are the players on the spot with Mags out a month.

Two or three guys hitting on your team in the American League isn't going to win you many games even with excellent starting pitching.

They've scored 12 runs on this road trip with the Phillies, Florida and the Cubs coming up.

Difficult time to lose Mags.

Lip

I really doubt our offensive slump is going to last long. Once we get home we'll start scoring runs again, as we always do.

StockdaleForVeep
06-05-2004, 11:34 PM
Why have we not seen gload in right field? I dont like the concept of timo starting. He'd be great as a pinch runner and the likes, not as a starter. Gload has the power and contact numbers to be an effective threat.


:KW

"Why's everyone griping, we're still in first"

JGarlandrules20
06-05-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Ever watch Carlos Lee attempt to bunt? It's always a pop up to the pitcher. Asking a power hitter to take a speed players role is always asking for trouble.
No. Carlos is awesome at bunting. He proved it that game vs the Twins..may 15th. He led off the inning with a perfect bunt...so perfect it never went foul and hit third base.

But bunting is a difficult thing and if your not use to it you could easily pop it up. I'd rather take a chance at Frank just trying to get a hit rather than wasting an out on a failed bunt attempt.

gosox41
06-06-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by nasox
I totally disagree. I mean, hawkisms are used on sportscenter and all over the country when talking about the sox. I think hawk has some more juice left in him.

I'm the most sick of the "He just missed it" He uses that call about 5 times a game. He makes it sound like the Sox are real close to being great, when in actuality any time hitter hits the ball he could have 'just missed it'. Baseball is a game of inches.

Plus I think Hawk is an ego-maniac. He is definitely holding DJ back. There is clear tension between the two and I don't belive a word either say when they say things are fine between them.




Bob

batmanZoSo
06-06-2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I'm the most sick of the "He just missed it" He uses that call about 5 times a game. He makes it sound like the Sox are real close to being great, when in actuality any time hitter hits the ball he could have 'just missed it'. Baseball is a game of inches.

Plus I think Hawk is an ego-maniac. He is definitely holding DJ back. There is clear tension between the two and I don't belive a word either say when they say things are fine between them.




Bob

Hitting is a game of millimeters and microseconds. You're right, player's "just miss it all the time," probably MOST of the time. The difference between a pop up and a homer isn't very great.

:hawk
Well, I'll tell ya what...I've never seen no one hit better in the clutch...I say in the clutch now...than Carl Yazstrzemski. That's all I'm gonna say there.

RedPinStripes
06-06-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by JGarlandrules20
No. Carlos is awesome at bunting. He proved it that game vs the Twins..may 15th. He led off the inning with a perfect bunt...so perfect it never went foul and hit third base.

But bunting is a difficult thing and if your not use to it you could easily pop it up. I'd rather take a chance at Frank just trying to get a hit rather than wasting an out on a failed bunt attempt.

I remember that bunt and it was a perfect bunt, but that's the only one i can remember. I remember seeing him pop up to the catcher several times before that.