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SEALgep
06-05-2004, 11:07 AM
Freddy Garcia - S - SEA Buy Mariners Tickets


A local report tabbed the White Sox as Freddy Garcia's most likely new home.
White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen and Garcia, native Venezuelans, are close friends. Chicago GM Kenny Williams responded to the rumor with: ''Great for us,'' Williams said. ''I'm really happy to hear that.'' He didn't deny the speculation, but he did quash rumors that Joe Borchard would be a part of the proposed trade for Garcia. ''Borchard's not going anywhere,'' Williams said. We wonder why not. Seems like the White Sox have plenty of minor league future stars in centerfield between Jeremy Reed and Brian Anderson. Parting with Borchard, who has been something of a disappointment so far, doesn't seem like an incurable loss.

TaylorStSox
06-05-2004, 11:37 AM
I'd love to have Garcia. I just have this feeling that parting with Borchard is really going to come back to haunt us. I think too many people have forgotten that his ceiling is one of the highest in all of baseball. Hopefully, Kenny hasn't.

pinwheels3530
06-05-2004, 12:16 PM
There is no guarantee that getting Garcia will help us get to the playoffs, but it will give us a better chance. Same can be said for Borchard there is no guarantee he's going to make it big in the Majors, if I had the chance to pull the trigger on a deal I would do it. We have a chance to win now we need to go for it I am tired of waiting for next year or thinking about the future.

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
There is no guarantee that getting Garcia will help us get to the playoffs, but it will give us a better chance. Same can be said for Borchard there is no guarantee he's going to make it big in the Majors, if I had the chance to pull the trigger on a deal I would do it. We have a chance to win now we need to go for it I am tired of waiting for next year or thinking about the future.

If we got Garcia, we would have the best rotation 1-5 in the major leagues and that's not an understatement. Looking at Baseball Prospectus's VORP for Pitchers by Team (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/vorpp_team2004.html?PHPSESSID=2575f6db879d38545caa 1d593d07dd8c), it shows that not only are we the only team with four starters in double digits, but we also have four starters with an over 15 VORP with Schoneweis being the worst, which means that he's the best 4th best starter in baseball. After looking even further it shows that Loaiza is the best third starter in baseball (third in terms of VORP rank for starters on the team). Garcia's VORP is higher than any of our four starters already:

Garcia 24.6
Buehrle 20.6
Garland 20.4
Loaiza 17.2
Schoeneweis 15.3

Garcia would practically ensure that we would make the playoffs because this would probably be our best 1-5 rotation since 1993 and our offense is better than 1993.

Pitching wins and when you have great starting pitching throughout the entire rotation and a pretty damn good offense too, it's tough to lose. I dont see how the Twins could even approach us.

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I'd love to have Garcia. I just have this feeling that parting with Borchard is really going to come back to haunt us. I think too many people have forgotten that his ceiling is one of the highest in all of baseball. Hopefully, Kenny hasn't. Hey quashed rumors that Borchard would be involved in a trade for Garcia.

TaylorStSox
06-05-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Hey quashed rumors that Borchard would be involved in a trade for Garcia.

My point is that I don't believe him for a second. He's a GM. He's posturing.

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
My point is that I don't believe him for a second. He's a GM. He's posturing. Why do you think he's lying? He may deal him for someone else, but for he isn't likely to deal him for a rent a player. I'm not sure what he's lied about, but if he has, I doubt this is a similar scenerio. It's basic logic IMO.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2004, 12:59 PM
One warning however, the Daily Southtown has a story Saturday saying the Yankees are now actively involved in getting Garcia. The story says the Sox are hoping to do the deal quickly because the longer this goes the more the odds turn to the Yankees favor.

Lip

TaylorStSox
06-05-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Why do you think he's lying? He may deal him for someone else, but for he isn't likely to deal him for a rent a player. I'm not sure what he's lied about, but if he has, I doubt this is a similar scenerio. It's basic logic IMO.


I don't believe any GM's in this regard. When they say a player is untouchable, it's because they're drawing interest. Nobody is untouchable. GM's lie. It's their job.

cpsoxfan
06-05-2004, 01:05 PM
Yes, I agree Garcia would give us the best 5-man rotaion in baseball! If we got him, I really think we could talk about more than just the Central Division title, but a pennant....possibly World Series! Win and win NOW, that's what I say! Get well Maggs!

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
One warning however, the Daily Southtown has a story Saturday saying the Yankees are now actively involved in getting Garcia. The story says the Sox are hoping to do the deal quickly because the longer this goes the more the odds turn to the Yankees favor.

Lip That's why we have back up plans, nothing is for sure. However, the prospects they can offer are marginal compared to us. If cash is involved and Seattle finds that especially attractive compared to players, then we may find ourselves at a significant disadvantage. We'll have to see.

TaylorStSox
06-05-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
One warning however, the Daily Southtown has a story Saturday saying the Yankees are now actively involved in getting Garcia. The story says the Sox are hoping to do the deal quickly because the longer this goes the more the odds turn to the Yankees favor.

Lip

A) This isn't news. The Yankees are always looking at everyone.

B) The Yankees don't have leverage. Their farm, with Seattle looking for prospects, is in horrible shape. Actually, this is an area where almost every team has an advantage on the Yankees.

soxtalker
06-05-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by cpsoxfan
Yes, I agree Garcia would give us the best 5-man rotaion in baseball! If we got him, I really think we could talk about more than just the Central Division title, but a pennant....possibly World Series! Win and win NOW, that's what I say! Get well Maggs!

I understand that having a quality 5th starter makes a divison championship more likely. Since a division championship or wildcard is required to win the pennant and WS, by definition it helps achieve those. But you seem to be implying that there's additional benefit. Could you explain? It seems to me that the playoffs don't really require a full 5-man rotation. Arizona was the classic example of this a few years ago, when they won with two superstar pitchers.

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That's why we have back up plans, nothing is for sure. However, the prospects they can offer are marginal compared to us. If cash is involved and Seattle finds that especially attractive compared to players, then we may find ourselves at a significant disadvantage. We'll have to see.

I dont really see why cash would be important in a deal for Garcia. Seattle, unlike the usual non-contenders that the Yanks steal players from, are owned by the ultra rich founder of Nintendo I believe. They have had a ton of fans per year over the past few years too. I think they are a team that is able to go after the best minor league talent available and we have that. Our minor league talent is better than what the yanks can offer.

npdempse
06-05-2004, 01:14 PM
Listening to all the praise Hawk & DJ heaped upon Garcia last night, basically selling him to Sox fans despite his being on the losing end, makes me wonder if Garcia isn't practially a done deal.

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I understand that having a quality 5th starter makes a divison championship more likely. Since a division championship or wildcard is required to win the pennant and WS, by definition it helps achieve those. But you seem to be implying that there's additional benefit. Could you explain? It seems to me that the playoffs don't really require a full 5-man rotation. Arizona was the classic example of this a few years ago, when they won with two superstar pitchers.

Because you'd rather have Freddy Garcia starting a playoff game than Scott Schoeneweis and if it came down to it you could have Scotty play a role at the end of the bullpen. For instance if you're facing the Yanks and a rash of lefties are coming up, you might want Schoeneweis over Marte or Cotts in a critical situation becauase lefties have only a .472 OPS against him this year, which is about 100 points lower than those of Marte or Cotts.

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
Listening to all the praise Hawk & DJ heaped upon Garcia last night, basically selling him to Sox fans despite his being on the losing end, makes me wonder if Garcia isn't practially a done deal. It's possible, but they've always liked that guy. He's good. They also did it with Ramon Ortiz, and that doesn't appear to be a done deal.

gosox41
06-05-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by cpsoxfan
Yes, I agree Garcia would give us the best 5-man rotaion in baseball! If we got him, I really think we could talk about more than just the Central Division title, but a pennant....possibly World Series! Win and win NOW, that's what I say! Get well Maggs!


Just a quick question about Garcia. Does anyone have a breakdown of his numbers at Safeco Field vs. on the road. I'm curoius about how he pitches at the Cell.

I haven't seen Garcia pitch enough, but I hear he is a fly ball pitcher. Seattle is a pitcher's ballpark, especially when compared to the Cell.

Is this true? Does it change how much you'd give up for Freddie?


Bob

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just a quick question about Garcia. Does anyone have a breakdown of his numbers at Safeco Field vs. on the road. I'm curoius about how he pitches at the Cell.

I haven't seen Garcia pitch enough, but I hear he is a fly ball pitcher. Seattle is a pitcher's ballpark, especially when compared to the Cell.

Is this true? Does it change how much you'd give up for Freddie?


Bob He pitches better at home, as do most pitchers. However, his stats at the Cell will be meaningless, because every time he's there, he's facing us. What will that information do? If we acquire him, he obviously won't be pitching against us.

Jjav829
06-05-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just a quick question about Garcia. Does anyone have a breakdown of his numbers at Safeco Field vs. on the road. I'm curoius about how he pitches at the Cell.

I haven't seen Garcia pitch enough, but I hear he is a fly ball pitcher. Seattle is a pitcher's ballpark, especially when compared to the Cell.

Is this true? Does it change how much you'd give up for Freddie?


Bob

He's made 5 starts at the Cell in his career and is 3-1 with a 4.50 ERA and a .237 average against. But as SEAL pointed out, he was pitching against us which he obviously wouldn't be doing. I still want him regardless of his Home/Away splits.

Iguana775
06-05-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If we got Garcia, we would have the best rotation 1-5 in the major leagues and that's not an understatement. Looking at Baseball Prospectus's VORP for Pitchers by Team (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/vorpp_team2004.html?PHPSESSID=2575f6db879d38545caa 1d593d07dd8c), it shows that not only are we the only team with four starters in double digits, but we also have four starters with an over 15 VORP with Schoneweis being the worst, which means that he's the best 4th best starter in baseball. After looking even further it shows that Loaiza is the best third starter in baseball (third in terms of VORP rank for starters on the team). Garcia's VORP is higher than any of our four starters already:

Garcia 24.6
Buehrle 20.6
Garland 20.4
Loaiza 17.2
Schoeneweis 15.3

Garcia would practically ensure that we would make the playoffs because this would probably be our best 1-5 rotation since 1993 and our offense is better than 1993.

Pitching wins and when you have great starting pitching throughout the entire rotation and a pretty damn good offense too, it's tough to lose. I dont see how the Twins could even approach us.

what is VORP?

Iguana775
06-05-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just a quick question about Garcia. Does anyone have a breakdown of his numbers at Safeco Field vs. on the road. I'm curoius about how he pitches at the Cell.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits3?statsId=6168&type=pitching

mendozaln
06-05-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
One warning however, the Daily Southtown has a story Saturday saying the Yankees are now actively involved in getting Garcia. The story says the Sox are hoping to do the deal quickly because the longer this goes the more the odds turn to the Yankees favor.

Lip

I always thought the Yankees would find a way to get Boone, one final big plunder of the farm system, something like that. But to get Garcia I think they'd have to shoot their last bolt. Is there any chance the Yankees could get both? I don't see how it could be done...but then, I can't often fathom Bill Bavasi's thinking.

Jjav829
06-05-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by mendozaln
I always thought the Yankees would find a way to get Boone, one final big plunder of the farm system, something like that. But to get Garcia I think they'd have to shoot their last bolt. Is there any chance the Yankees could get both? I don't see how it could be done...but then, I can't often fathom Bill Bavasi's thinking.

They're the Yankees. If they want something, they can always find a way to get it. The Mariners don't really have any other big contracts to rid themselves of so it may takes a 3 team trade where the Yankees can take some salary from another team that sends prospects Seattle's way. Bottom line, they'll find a way to get Garcia and Boone bad enough if they want them.

mendozaln
06-05-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
They're the Yankees. If they want something, they can always find a way to get it. The Mariners don't really have any other big contracts to rid themselves of so it may takes a 3 team trade where the Yankees can take some salary from another team that sends prospects Seattle's way. Bottom line, they'll find a way to get Garcia and Boone bad enough if they want them.

I see what you mean, but there is some limit to the Yank's ability to pick up players mid-season (eg, noone thinks they have the players to pick up Beltran). I can't think of any 3-team deal that would work. Texas (Park) and Pitt (Kendall) need their prospects, and that's a LOT of salary. Maybe LA or Arizona? But looking at their lineups, I can't put together any deal that looks halfway reasonable.

gosox41
06-05-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
He's made 5 starts at the Cell in his career and is 3-1 with a 4.50 ERA and a .237 average against. But as SEAL pointed out, he was pitching against us which he obviously wouldn't be doing. I still want him regardless of his Home/Away splits.

I want him to, the question is how much you want to give up for him.


Bob

batmanZoSo
06-05-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Freddy Garcia - S - SEA Buy Mariners Tickets


A local report tabbed the White Sox as Freddy Garcia's most likely new home.
White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen and Garcia, native Venezuelans, are close friends. Chicago GM Kenny Williams responded to the rumor with: ''Great for us,'' Williams said. ''I'm really happy to hear that.'' He didn't deny the speculation, but he did quash rumors that Joe Borchard would be a part of the proposed trade for Garcia. ''Borchard's not going anywhere,'' Williams said. We wonder why not. Seems like the White Sox have plenty of minor league future stars in centerfield between Jeremy Reed and Brian Anderson. Parting with Borchard, who has been something of a disappointment so far, doesn't seem like an incurable loss.

Because they gave him the biggest signing bonus at the time they drafted him. There's too much pride at stake, come on, don't you care about JR's pride?! :D:

batmanZoSo
06-05-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If we got Garcia, we would have the best rotation 1-5 in the major leagues and that's not an understatement. Looking at Baseball Prospectus's VORP for Pitchers by Team (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/vorpp_team2004.html?PHPSESSID=2575f6db879d38545caa 1d593d07dd8c), it shows that not only are we the only team with four starters in double digits, but we also have four starters with an over 15 VORP with Schoneweis being the worst, which means that he's the best 4th best starter in baseball. After looking even further it shows that Loaiza is the best third starter in baseball (third in terms of VORP rank for starters on the team). Garcia's VORP is higher than any of our four starters already:

Garcia 24.6
Buehrle 20.6
Garland 20.4
Loaiza 17.2
Schoeneweis 15.3

Garcia would practically ensure that we would make the playoffs because this would probably be our best 1-5 rotation since 1993 and our offense is better than 1993.

Pitching wins and when you have great starting pitching throughout the entire rotation and a pretty damn good offense too, it's tough to lose. I dont see how the Twins could even approach us.

How does VORP determine who's good and who's not? Doesn't that rely on depth? And I thought I heard Rowand's VORP was higher than Hunter's.

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Because they gave him the biggest signing bonus at the time they drafted him. There's too much pride at stake, come on, don't you care about JR's pride?! :D: That was from rotoworld, but I don't think they'll trade him for Garcia because he's a rent a player, and they shouldn't have to give that much for him. Would they be willing to trade Borchard at some point, maybe even this year? I would say yes, but they would do it wisely. Borchard, although has struggled with us, does have some good value. If we trade him for a pitcher, they would no doubtedly make sure it would be for someone who they would be able to retain, either because they are signed already or are in their arbitration years.

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 08:11 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040605&content_id=762102&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

More news from the White Sox site.



"Do the White Sox want Freddy? Everybody wants him," Guillen said. "Who wouldn't want to have that kid? He's one of the best pitchers in baseball, and he's one of the more dominating pitchers in the game.

"To talk about the White Sox, that's all rumors. I can't say anything about that because I might get in trouble."

The 28-year-old Garcia said Saturday that he is happy in Seattle. If he had to be moved and had a choice of teams, the White Sox would be high on his list.

"Ozzie is a very smart baseball guy and really knows the game," said Garcia. "He knows how to treat the players and they respect that. I'm not surprised by his success.

"Of course I would want to play for a guy like that. It would be like playing for a member of my family."

mendozaln
06-05-2004, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That was from rotoworld, but I don't think they'll trade him for Garcia because he's a rent a player, and they shouldn't have to give that much for him. Would they be willing to trade Borchard at some point, maybe even this year? I would say yes, but they would do it wisely. Borchard, although has struggled with us, does have some good value. If we trade him for a pitcher, they would no doubtedly make sure it would be for someone who they would be able to retain, either because they are signed already or are in their arbitration years.

Okay, but rent-a-players can be expensive. To get Alomar last year, the Sox had to give up a recent first-round pick who had been performing well in the minors (Ring). And they would (presumably) be getting Garcia much earlier in the season.

Maybe the Sox (and the Mariners?) are waiting to see how the draft shakes out. If a great OFer falls to the Sox (a possibility b/c of all the arms in the pool), they may be more willing to send one of their better OF prospects. O/w they'll work out another proposal.

batmanZoSo
06-05-2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by mendozaln
Okay, but rent-a-players can be expensive. To get Alomar last year, the Sox had to give up a recent first-round pick who had been performing well in the minors (Ring). And they would (presumably) be getting Garcia much earlier in the season.

Maybe the Sox (and the Mariners?) are waiting to see how the draft shakes out. If a great OFer falls to the Sox (a possibility b/c of all the arms in the pool), they may be more willing to send one of their better OF prospects. O/w they'll work out another proposal.

But that was pretty much it wasn't it? Royce Ring and a throw-in or something. It only sounds bad that we gave up a first round pick, but should Ring have been a first round pick in the first place?

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by mendozaln
Okay, but rent-a-players can be expensive. To get Alomar last year, the Sox had to give up a recent first-round pick who had been performing well in the minors (Ring). And they would (presumably) be getting Garcia much earlier in the season.

Maybe the Sox (and the Mariners?) are waiting to see how the draft shakes out. If a great OFer falls to the Sox (a possibility b/c of all the arms in the pool), they may be more willing to send one of their better OF prospects. O/w they'll work out another proposal. That's true, anything is possible, and KW has shown to be aggressive to get what he wants. However, he said Borchard isn't going anywhere. Can he change his mind? Sure, and maybe he'd be more inclined to do so if Josh Fields gets taken and we end up with Syzmanski. Not saying that is what needs to happen or will happen, but you're right, circumstances may change and therefore we may change what we're willing to give up to get what we want.

pearso66
06-05-2004, 08:42 PM
The reason getting Alomar took Ring was because we had NY pay for the remainder of his contract. If JR is willing to take on money, we shouldnt need to give up borchard

mendozaln
06-05-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo


But that was pretty much it wasn't it? Royce Ring and a throw-in or something. It only sounds bad that we gave up a first round pick, but should Ring have been a first round pick in the first place?


Originally posted by SEALgep
That's true, anything is possible, and KW has shown to be aggressive to get what he wants. However, he said Borchard isn't going anywhere. Can he change his mind? Sure, and maybe he'd be more inclined to do so if Josh Fields gets taken and we end up with Syzmanski. Not saying that is what needs to happen or will happen, but you're right, circumstances may change and therefore we may change what we're willing to give up to get what we want.

About Ring, whatever anyone else thinks about a reliever as a first rounder, KW picked him, and if he believed he was that valuable at draft time, then he certainly wouldn't have changed his opinion based on his minor league stats. So from William's perspective, it's a heck of a loss.

And thanks to SEALgep for spelling that name for me... S-y-z-m-a-n-s-k-i. But I think I'll faint on stage before I remember how to spell it w/o a reference.

mendozaln
06-05-2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
The reason getting Alomar took Ring was because we had NY pay for the remainder of his contract. If JR is willing to take on money, we shouldnt need to give up borchard

That's true, I had forgotten about that.

SEALgep
06-05-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
The reason getting Alomar took Ring was because we had NY pay for the remainder of his contract. If JR is willing to take on money, we shouldnt need to give up borchard Good point.

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
How does VORP determine who's good and who's not? Doesn't that rely on depth? And I thought I heard Rowand's VORP was higher than Hunter's.

VORP stands for Value Over Replacement Player. Basically a replacement player is a AAAA-type player. One that's just good enough for the majors. For instance, Pokey Reese on Boston has a VORP of zero because they calculated the value of a replacement player and Pokey Reese was playing at about that level. I believe that the numbers are how many runs over replacement that player is worth. Bonds has the highest VORP at 43.9 and Curt Schilling has the highest pitchers VORP at 27.7. It provides a good way to compare players because you can reduce all of a players' stats down to one number.

Rowand's VORP is 4.2 and Hunter's is 8.3.

A.T. Money
06-05-2004, 10:49 PM
Yeah but as long as we are in first place or close to it at this point, Reinsy will approve the payroll increase, which would mean we could get Freddy.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2004, 10:55 PM
A note of caution from a Scott Merkin story on White Sox.com:

"The Yankees are said to be interested in acquiring Garcia, as are the Twins, who have a plethora of top minor leaguers to offer.


Minnesota getting him would definately hurt the Sox badly.

Lip

MRKARNO
06-05-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
A note of caution from a Scott Merkin story on White Sox.com:

"The Yankees are said to be interested in acquiring Garcia, as are the Twins, who have a plethora of top minor leaguers to offer.


Minnesota getting him would definately hurt the Sox badly.

Lip

But they'd have to give up a ton of minor leaguers as they'd probably need Seattle to pay for nearly all of Garcia's salary.

Win1ForMe
06-06-2004, 01:09 AM
You know I was thinking, and maybe I missed this, but is there a reason Seattle isn't trying to re-sign Garcia? If he's as good as most of us think, then why not sign him long term? The M's have the money, and with Piniero's and Meche's struggles, a lack of proven young pitchers.

Something smells fishy. I hope Garcia isn't too drinky anymore...

batmanZoSo
06-06-2004, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
VORP stands for Value Over Replacement Player. Basically a replacement player is a AAAA-type player. One that's just good enough for the majors. For instance, Pokey Reese on Boston has a VORP of zero because they calculated the value of a replacement player and Pokey Reese was playing at about that level. I believe that the numbers are how many runs over replacement that player is worth. Bonds has the highest VORP at 43.9 and Curt Schilling has the highest pitchers VORP at 27.7. It provides a good way to compare players because you can reduce all of a players' stats down to one number.

Rowand's VORP is 4.2 and Hunter's is 8.3.

So all that says about us is that we have no farm system. I don't see what that stat has to do with how good a player is.

jeremyb1
06-06-2004, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
A note of caution from a Scott Merkin story on White Sox.com:

"The Yankees are said to be interested in acquiring Garcia, as are the Twins, who have a plethora of top minor leaguers to offer.

Minnesota getting him would definately hurt the Sox badly.


Originally posted by MRKARNO
But they'd have to give up a ton of minor leaguers as they'd probably need Seattle to pay for nearly all of Garcia's salary.

I'd say Minnesota is in a better postion to deal for Garcia than we are if they're interested. They have Morneau and Restovich yet struggle for spots to play them due to the fact their infatuation with Meintkiewich and the fact that Hunter and Stewart are signed to long term deals in the outfield wheras Maggs is a free agent, we have no CF, and Carlos has one year left on his deal. We'd be wise to hang onto at least Reed and possibly Borchard also.

As far as salary, I'm not sure it plays that large a role. The Mariners have a set budget which Garcia fits into for the duration of the season so they don't need to move his salary necessarily. There could be increased pressure by ownership to save money once the season is officially in the tank but perhaps Bavasi is only limited to his budget and would rather eat the salary to deal with the team offering more. I wouldn't say they'd need to give up a ton of minor leaguers only more than the next highest bidder. Right now after us, I'm not sure who is out there with legit prospects.

jeremyb1
06-06-2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
So all that says about us is that we have no farm system. I don't see what that stat has to do with how good a player is.

Haha. No, it's not a specific replacement it's the theoretical number of easily acquirable talent that any team could use to replace it's player. It is theoretically the worst hypothetical player a team should be able to require as a replacement at no cost.

SEALgep
06-06-2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I'd say Minnesota is in a better postion to deal for Garcia than we are if they're interested. They have Morneau and Restovich yet struggle for spots to play them due to the fact their infatuation with Meintkiewich and the fact that Hunter and Stewart are signed to long term deals in the outfield wheras Maggs is a free agent, we have no CF, and Carlos has one year left on his deal. We'd be wise to hang onto at least Reed and possibly Borchard also.

As far as salary, I'm not sure it plays that large a role. The Mariners have a set budget which Garcia fits into for the duration of the season so they don't need to move his salary necessarily. There could be increased pressure by ownership to save money once the season is officially in the tank but perhaps Bavasi is only limited to his budget and would rather eat the salary to deal with the team offering more. I wouldn't say they'd need to give up a ton of minor leaguers only more than the next highest bidder. Right now after us, I'm not sure who is out there with legit prospects. Morneau is probably not going anywhere, they have a lot of faith in that kid. They sooner trade Dougy IMO. However, payroll is an issue with them, even more so than with us. If they want Garcia, Seattle is probably going to have to help them out in that regard, unless of course Minny finds a way to allow the increase. Anyways, if they do indeed require the help, they will no doubtedly have to overpay for his services with prospects. Are they willing to do that? Maybe if they can get Eddie back as part of a deal as well. However, again the money plays a role.

Win1ForMe
06-06-2004, 11:45 AM
From the Sun-Times today (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug061.html):

With the Mariners desperate for offense, Aaron Rowand has emerged as the likely candidate to be traded while the Sox likely would include right-hander Jon Rauch in the deal. With upcoming free agent Magglio Ordonez rumored to be headed elsewhere after this season, Class AAA outfielders Joe Borchard and Jeremy Reed are considered untouchable and are expected to remain in the organization.

The Sox' goal is for the Mariners to pick up all, or at least most, of what remains on Garcia's $6.875 million contract this season .

A deal the Mariners reportedly have on hold with the New York Yankees is being delayed because the Mariners want offense for reliever Mike Myers and the Yankees are offering pitcher Jose Contreras.

Like Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar last season, Garcia is expected to merely be a player for hire for the remainder of the season and sign elsewhere for next year, although the Guillen-Garcia relationship could help the Sox in long-term negotiations.

This article is certainly interesting. I guess we're not picking up his salary either. And it looks like the Jose Contreras deal is for Mike Myers and not Garcia, as reported in the Southtown .

DSpivack
06-06-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
From the Sun-Times today (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug061.html):



This article is certainly interesting. I guess we're not picking up his salary either. And it looks like the Jose Contreras deal is for Mike Myers and not Garcia, as reported in the Southtown .


The Yanks aren't trading for Garcia?
Totally awesome baby, yeah.