PDA

View Full Version : Interesting article... but a bit on the negative side.


South Side
06-04-2004, 12:51 PM
June 3, 2004

BY GREG COUCH SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Advertisement

Please post a link. You can't post complete copyrighted articles. Thank you.

Tekijawa
06-04-2004, 01:00 PM
hmmmmmmmmmm... Well I doubt he was looking for a reaction out of us sox fans????

mweflen
06-04-2004, 01:02 PM
this article is a typical off-day baloney piece.

the twins aren't gaining, by the way. they've been stinking it up against the D-Rays, and are the same 2 games back they were before our mini west-coast disaster in Oakland.

Tekijawa
06-04-2004, 01:14 PM
I'd also like to point out that the team to the norht has just flat outright LIED about the extent of their players injuries and I haven't seen one article about THAT YET? Our first "major Cog" to experience an injury this year and all of a sudden Oliver Stone is writing Conspiracy theroys and sending them to the Sun-times!

P.S. If Magglio is "due a heafty raise next year" what does this guy see him making? If anything he'll be due EXACTLY THE SAME AMMOUNT THAT HE IS MAKING THIS YEAR... after all that is what he is asking for...

Uncle_Patrick
06-04-2004, 01:23 PM
Hmm, a "Hey Sox fans, don't trust your organization" article. Never read one of those before.

This sounds like every Cub fan that I know that also hates the White Sox. "Maggs is out. The Sox are in trouble and going to trade him." Yawn....

jackbrohamer
06-04-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
P.S. If Magglio is "due a heafty raise next year" what does this guy see him making? If anything he'll be due EXACTLY THE SAME AMMOUNT THAT HE IS MAKING THIS YEAR... after all that is what he is asking for...

Seriously, it's not like the guy's underpaid now

MRKARNO
06-04-2004, 01:48 PM
Maggs is in for a rude awakening if he thinks his current market value is really more than 12 million a year. Maggs isn't nearly as good as Vlad Guerrero and never will be. Vlad got 5 years 70 million (14 mil a year). Tejada got 12 million a year over 6 years and Tejada is probably better than Maggs too (and plays a tougher defensive position at a pretty high level). Kenny Williams would be making a mistake to sign him anywhere over 5 years 70 million (I could live with overpaying him by a bout 2-3 million per year, which is what 5/70 would be) and I think we could do a lot better with that money knowing that we have all of these good prospects in the wings.

SoxOnTop
06-04-2004, 02:09 PM
Nothing like a positive article for our 1st place White Sox!!!

I think the whole Cubune staff is a bunch of whiny, bed wetting, delusional, Cubby coke snorting, northside posers. Nothing will make me happier then to hear their excuses and crying when the Sox go the playoffs and the Cubs blow it again.

Do we really need to read the same rehashed negetive crap over and over again. Thomas is a baby. KW will sell off the team. The Sox will lose the division to the Twins. Mags is all but gone.

Come up with some new material for Pete's sake instead of shoveling the same dung Chicago papers have been slinging for the last 3 years. Do some freakin' research!!! If you're going to be negetive, at least know what is going on and find some new material. Get to know the Sox instead of mailing in the same stereotyped BS that you've been hearing from the rest of the ignorant cub fan clones on the northside who couldn't find the USCF to save their lives even though it's on same EL line as the "Friendly Confies".

jshanahanjr
06-04-2004, 02:21 PM
Pay the man the 14 million! He's worth it.

mweflen
06-04-2004, 03:18 PM
here's the link, for those who haven't read it.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg031.html

based on the current market, it's true he's not worth 14 mil (Vlad money).

I think he should happily accept 12x6 (Tejada money) from the sox (72 total).

But then, what do I know about making 12 million bucks a year? It's all pretty obscene, when you think about it.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2004, 02:17 AM
Gang:

I spoke with Greg on this column and he is amazed that Sox fans feel it's negative. Basically he said he 'called out' the owner and the organization because logically the only way that story could have come out that Mags 'supposedly' rejected a five year, 70 million dollar offer was from the organization.

Mags isn't going to make that public if it happened is he? neither is Mags' agent.

Greg Couch was basically saying you could be looking at another Bartolo Colon situation where the Sox 'supposedly' make this grand offer then the fans find out after the fact, it's loaded with incentives, deferred money without interest and other Reinsdorfian clauses. (I know Hangar 18 has talked about this often...) In short it's not the offer the Sox made it out to be...call it a 'token' offer just to tell the fans, 'well we tried...'

I agree with Greg, he was basically saying to the organization 'stop your bottom line, penny pinching ways' and start keeping your star players. Stop being a 'feeder' system for the Yankees, Braves, Cardinals and so on. Those are for teams in 'small markets,' not Chicago.

Lip

TornLabrum
06-05-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

I spoke with Greg on this column and he is amazed that Sox fans feel it's negative. Basically he said he 'called out' the owner and the organization because logically the only way that story could have come out that Mags 'supposedly' rejected a five year, 70 million dollar offer was from the organization.

Mags isn't going to make that public if it happened is he? neither is Mags' agent.

Greg Couch was basically saying you could be looking at another Bartolo Colon situation where the Sox 'supposedly' make this grand offer then the fans find out after the fact, it's loaded with incentives, deferred money without interest and other Reinsdorfian clauses. (I know Hangar 18 has talked about this often...) In short it's not the offer the Sox made it out to be...call it a 'token' offer just to tell the fans, 'well we tried...'

I agree with Greg, he was basically saying to the organization 'stop your bottom line, penny pinching ways' and start keeping your star players. Stop being a 'feeder' system for the Yankees, Braves, Cardinals and so on. Those are for teams in 'small markets,' not Chicago.

Lip

George Ofman has been reporting that the negotiations are proceeding, and the Sox latest offer was still four years. Only one of them can be right.

Dan H
06-05-2004, 12:34 PM
I don't consider the article negative at all. I don't know what is going on in the negotiations, but it is not right for the organization to paint a player as greedy espeically if it has no intention of signing him. Maggs is a home grown player who now wants his due. If the organization doesn't do what it can to keep him in fold, then the White Flag Trade is finally exposed for what it was: Not a way to rebuild, but a way to make money while put an inferior product on the field.

Also, I don't think that reporters are obligated to write "positive" stories. They are supposed to cover the news as it happens. If the Sox are really low balling Maggs, it should be reported. If Maggs is not being reasonable, that should be reported. But judging the reporting should be based on its accuracy, not whether it makes us feel good.

I have enjoyed Couch. I don't want propaganda or PR fluff in the newspaper. The Sox have a PR department. Let them try to sell us the fairy tales. I don't want something labled as postive or negative. I want something called objectivity.

South Side
06-05-2004, 02:59 PM
I felt it was negative and I am entitled to my opinion. I want facts just as much as you do and according to Maggs he never turned down a 5 year offer. I want Maggs to be resigned just as much as the next guy. In a city where it's very hard to come across a "positive" piece on the White Sox I don't want to open the paper and see someone bashing the organization. And you obviously need to get used to the fluff pieces because it dominates Chicago papers/ Cubs articles.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2004, 10:49 PM
South Side:

With respect this organization will be entitled to some positive pieces when it wins something, starts spending money like a 'large market' team is supposed to and good ole Uncle Jerry apologizes for threatning to move a team that has been a part of Chicago history for over 100 years, for his part in the 94 labor impasse and the 97 White Flag Trade.

Until that happens they deserve everything they get.

Lip

South Side
06-05-2004, 11:16 PM
So, are you a fan of the White Sox or not? I don't know how you feel personally but as a fan of the team I don't like to see them publically badmouthed. You can have issues within the organization but when it comes down to it no matter what my issues were I'd still choose the Sox's organiztion over the Cubs which is what you're generally doing when concering the media in Chicago. You're just hurting the organization in the long run when Jerry is gone... it's still going to be Cubs town.

pudge
06-06-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
South Side:

With respect this organization will be entitled to some positive pieces when it wins something, starts spending money like a 'large market' team is supposed to and good ole Uncle Jerry apologizes for threatning to move a team that has been a part of Chicago history for over 100 years, for his part in the 94 labor impasse and the 97 White Flag Trade.

Until that happens they deserve everything they get.

Lip

The problem I have is that the piece is based entirely on speculation. It would be nice to have some actual reporting going on in Chicago. Couch commends Heyman from New York for having good sources, how about Couch getting some of his own?

TornLabrum
06-06-2004, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by pudge
The problem I have is that the piece is based entirely on speculation. It would be nice to have some actual reporting going on in Chicago. Couch commends Heyman from New York for having good sources, how about Couch getting some of his own?

I think we're supposed to take it on faith that Heyman was right, and that Maggio calling the reports a "lie" is just an act of subterfuge. As I point out in a column that should be up soon, there is another explanation as to who Heyman's sources were in the talks last winter about the proposed Boston-Sox deal involving Magglio and Garciaparra. Those sources didn't have to be in Chicago to know that trade was being discussed.

Lip Man 1
06-06-2004, 12:53 PM
South Side says: "You're just hurting the organization in the long run when Jerry is gone... it's still going to be Cubs town.

This town wasn't a Cubs town in the 1950's through 1965 was it?

Win something of substance and it won't be a "Cubs town," after Reinsdorf is gone. In fact when he's gone attendence is guaranteed to go up.

There have been some rare times when Reinsdorf has gotten a raw deal from fans and the Chicago media but overwhelmingly he has cause most of the problems and issues which are hurting this franchise in the hear and now. He deserves to be held accountable for those which occured under his watch and have put this club into the position it is in over the past twenty plus seasons both on and especially off the field.

Not talking about them, sugar coating them, blaming the media for them isn't going to solve them is it?

The White Sox need answers to serious issues... saying if you talk about them doesn't make you a 'real' fan or a 'good' fan is ludicrous. There is no connection between having issues with Reinsdorf's ownership and being a good fan. In my opinion you are a better fan if you go after the ills of the organization. That shows that winning is more important to you then good PR and media attention. To do less equates the individual with what Cub fans do.

Lip

johnny_mostil
06-06-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
South Side:

apologizes for threatning to move a team that has been a part of Chicago history for over 100 years, for his part in the 94 labor impasse and the 97 White Flag Trade.


I'm with you on the White Flag and the moving to Tampa gripes, but Jerry was right, not wrong, on the strike thing. The baseball players' union needs to be disbanded by the feds. Labor unions exist to help the powerless against their oppressors. Where the average salary is two million bucks, no oppression exists. The law should not allow individual AND collective bargaining to co-exist. If they want a union, fine, but they should get a wage scale or have their union banned as the collusion it is. All the current system does is encourage this huge money siphon from tax money (used to subsidize stadia) to the A-Rods and Scott Borases. Hell with it. Pay the all the same thing, dividing some large percentage of gross revenue, and if they don't like it, they can get real jobs like the rest of us.

Dan H
06-06-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by johnny_mostil
I'm with you on the White Flag and the moving to Tampa gripes, but Jerry was right, not wrong, on the strike thing. The baseball players' union needs to be disbanded by the feds. Labor unions exist to help the powerless against their oppressors. Where the average salary is two million bucks, no oppression exists. The law should not allow individual AND collective bargaining to co-exist. If they want a union, fine, but they should get a wage scale or have their union banned as the collusion it is. All the current system does is encourage this huge money siphon from tax money (used to subsidize stadia) to the A-Rods and Scott Borases. Hell with it. Pay the all the same thing, dividing some large percentage of gross revenue, and if they don't like it, they can get real jobs like the rest of us.

Don't agree with this. Just because you don't like the players union doesn't mean the federal government has a right to "disband it." Besides if one union is disbanded, even a union of rich guys, that will only make it easy to disband other unions. This is no solution.

Other industries have situations where a person is in a union and also has a personal services contract. I see no problem with it and I don't see why any new law has to be enacted to change it.

And finally the owners are just as much to blame for the A-Rods in the world as anyone else. Maybe the players have too much power and are too greedy. But I have little sympathy for the owners. They have more power than you think and have had it for a long time.