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JDP
06-04-2004, 11:50 AM
While I haven't researched this myself, I am assuming ESPN wouldn't make up a very interesting stat like this:

The Chicago White Sox haven't had a win out of a fifth starter since 2002.

Randar68
06-04-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by JDP
While I haven't researched this myself, I am assuming ESPN wouldn't make up a very interesting stat like this:

The Chicago White Sox haven't had a win out of a fifth starter since 2002.

This has been covered. Stewart, Porzio, and Cotts all won as the 5th starter last year.

mantis1212
06-04-2004, 12:07 PM
I think I saw the record out of the 5 spot since the beginning of '03 was like 3-22

Iwritecode
06-04-2004, 12:18 PM
Does anyone know the average # of runs scored per game by the Sox when the fifth starter is pitching?

It seems like the offense goes in the tank every time the #5 spot comes up...

Tekijawa
06-04-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
seems like the offense goes in the tank every time the #5 spot comes up...

That's because we're usually down 7 runs after 2/3rds of an inning... A littel tough to get pumped up after that!

mcfish
06-04-2004, 02:09 PM
We won 1 of the games Diaz started. I know Diaz didn't get the win, but it was the only win started by a #5 this year.

Blueprint1
06-04-2004, 02:49 PM
I don't think that the case that were down 7 runs after 2/3 of an inning. I think that many times we were in the games until the later innings.

Iwritecode
06-04-2004, 03:08 PM
I debated about starting a new thread for this but I guess it fits here...

Is there something about the mentality of the team when the 5th starters slot comes up in the rotation? Do they subconsciously think that the starter is going to pitch poorly therefore play “corpseball” as opposed to knowing that when a guy like Burly or Loaiza is on the mound, they will probably get a pretty good pitched game and score double-digit runs?

I looked back on the two months that have been played this season and unless I missed one, found out that in the eight games in which a 5th starter has pitched, the Sox have scored an average of 2.63 RPG with a record of 1 – 7. The only reason the RPG is that high is because they managed 6 runs in one game only twice. Here’s a quick breakdown on each game:

4/11 – This game really could have gone either way. Wright wasn’t terrible, but not good either. He went 4 2/3 giving up 5 runs. The Sox scored 4 and had the go ahead run at the plate in the ninth. Sox lost 5 – 4.

4/16 – Wright pitched a little bit better again going 4 2/3 but only giving up 3 runs. All three runs came in the first and second innings. The problem is that it’s impossible to win with no run support. Sox lost 3 – 0.

4/24 – This can be considered a “quality start” by Wright who went 5 1/3 giving up 3 runs. He would’ve needed to throw a shutout to win this game though. Sox lost 4 – 1.

5/1 – Second game of a DH. Wright was terrible giving up 6 runs in 3 innings pitched. The Sox actually managed more runs in this game than in Wright's last 3 starts combined. Sox lost 10 –6.

5/13 – The Sox finally manage to win a game with a 5th starter pitching! Of course the go-ahead run crosses the plate a couple of innings too late for Diaz to get credit for the win. The second time they scored 6 runs for the 5th starter and this time it’s enough. Sox win 6 – 5.

5/17 – Diaz on 3 days rest can’t do much of anything and gives up 5 runs in the first 2 innings. The Sox lay down and die afterwards only scoring 2 runs and lose 7 – 2.

5/22 – The infamous bullpen game that Cotts started. Knew this was a bad idea from the beginning. Of course the Sox only manage 1 run and lose 9 – 1.

5/29 – Rauch comes in more or less knowing that no matter how well he pitches, he’ll be sent back to Charlotte after the game because with all the upcoming off-days, the Sox won’t need a 5th starter for a couple of weeks. It could have been worse as he only gave up 5 runs. The problem was that they all came in the 4th inning. The sox play corpseball and only plate 1. Sox lost 5 – 1.


I don’t have the time or energy to look back at all the games from last year but I’m sure the findings would be similar. I think even Freddy Garcia would have trouble winning games if he barely gets 2 runs of support each game…

jlh0023
06-04-2004, 03:51 PM
Hopefully all of the number 5 starter problems will end starting tonite, when Freddy Garcia auditions for a spot in our rotation.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2004, 02:10 AM
I asked myself that same question and posted it here earlier in the week. I think psychologically the Sox start to press knowing they need a big offensive night to try to overcome the follies of our fabulous fifth guys.]

By the time the game is over the Sox are usually taking the fifth, then drinking it!

Lip

Cubbiesuck13
06-05-2004, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I debated about starting a new thread for this but I guess it fits here...

Is there something about the mentality of the team when the 5th starters slot comes up in the rotation? Do they subconsciously think that the starter is going to pitch poorly therefore play “corpseball” as opposed to knowing that when a guy like Burly or Loaiza is on the mound, they will probably get a pretty good pitched game and score double-digit runs?

I looked back on the two months that have been played this season and unless I missed one, found out that in the eight games in which a 5th starter has pitched, the Sox have scored an average of 2.63 RPG with a record of 1 – 7. The only reason the RPG is that high is because they managed 6 runs in one game only twice. Here’s a quick breakdown on each game:

4/11 – This game really could have gone either way. Wright wasn’t terrible, but not good either. He went 4 2/3 giving up 5 runs. The Sox scored 4 and had the go ahead run at the plate in the ninth. Sox lost 5 – 4.

4/16 – Wright pitched a little bit better again going 4 2/3 but only giving up 3 runs. All three runs came in the first and second innings. The problem is that it’s impossible to win with no run support. Sox lost 3 – 0.

4/24 – This can be considered a “quality start” by Wright who went 5 1/3 giving up 3 runs. He would’ve needed to throw a shutout to win this game though. Sox lost 4 – 1.

5/1 – Second game of a DH. Wright was terrible giving up 6 runs in 3 innings pitched. The Sox actually managed more runs in this game than in Wright's last 3 starts combined. Sox lost 10 –6.

5/13 – The Sox finally manage to win a game with a 5th starter pitching! Of course the go-ahead run crosses the plate a couple of innings too late for Diaz to get credit for the win. The second time they scored 6 runs for the 5th starter and this time it’s enough. Sox win 6 – 5.

5/17 – Diaz on 3 days rest can’t do much of anything and gives up 5 runs in the first 2 innings. The Sox lay down and die afterwards only scoring 2 runs and lose 7 – 2.

5/22 – The infamous bullpen game that Cotts started. Knew this was a bad idea from the beginning. Of course the Sox only manage 1 run and lose 9 – 1.

5/29 – Rauch comes in more or less knowing that no matter how well he pitches, he’ll be sent back to Charlotte after the game because with all the upcoming off-days, the Sox won’t need a 5th starter for a couple of weeks. It could have been worse as he only gave up 5 runs. The problem was that they all came in the 4th inning. The sox play corpseball and only plate 1. Sox lost 5 – 1.


I don’t have the time or energy to look back at all the games from last year but I’m sure the findings would be similar. I think even Freddy Garcia would have trouble winning games if he barely gets 2 runs of support each game…


when broken down like that and knowing that the O could not get anything going, it seems like Diaz could get another go at it. I would say Wright, but he is having the surgery. I still think we need another pitcher to do anything in the playoffs.