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WWIII
06-03-2004, 03:04 PM
This is not a "Replace Koch" thread or anything like that. Koch has been fine this year. Everyone makes mistakes, except Gagne, which is why he won the Cy Young last year.

That being said, in some negative Koch threads and other threads, I have seen people talk about Shingo and how right now he looks good, but players will soon figure him out. My question is why are people so certain that players will figure him out. Correct me if I am wrong, but this guy played for around 13 years in Japan and no one figured him out. He's the all-time save leader in Japan. Granted, the caliber of hitter may not be equivalent, but still, 13 years would give even mediocre hitters a chance to "figure out" a pitcher. Is it not possible that Shingo may just turn out to be good?

RedPinStripes
06-03-2004, 03:06 PM
I'd rather see Shingo closing more then anyone else on that roster.

ARoman27
06-03-2004, 03:10 PM
Good point on Takatsu. It's especially surprising that he was so successful in Japan being that the Japanese players are known for being patient and waiting back on the ball. Right now Takatsu has guys laughing at the plate because they are so amazed by the way his changeup just stops. What is more amazing that is if you throw a 65mph changeup and follow it with a 87mph fastball, that fastball looks more like 95mph.

na_na_na_na
06-03-2004, 03:14 PM
I also think it's crazy that people think hitters will figure out Shingo. I believe these people think this because his pitches are so slow.

The thing that makes shingo so devistating is the movement on his pitches. It makes batters look like fools.

I've been beating the Shingo drum from day one. Not sure that he should be our closer but looks like a dominate pitcher and a steal at his salary. Great Job Kenny!

soxtalker
06-03-2004, 03:15 PM
I have raised the point about hitters and teams adjusting to Takatsu over the season several times. However, you've stated it a bit more definitively than I've ever intended. Actually, I have wanted to see Takatsu in the closer role from very early in the season. I think that you raise a good point about his success and experience in Japan. The game is different there, but that certainly speaks well of his chances. Having said that, however, there is a possibility that he'll not do as well as he has for the entire season. Someone pointed out in another thread that he's not as good against lefties. And he doesn't appear to be a strike-out pitcher like Koch, so some of those batted balls will start falling in. One good thing about his style is that he doesn't walk many batters.

nasox
06-03-2004, 03:17 PM
And it isn't like shingo never saved a game before. It's not like he just had great stuff, but no closer mentality. He is the all time saves leader in Japan. The Mariano Rivera of Japan. I don't say we replace Koch with him, but I would like to see Shingo save a game in the near future, and if Koch blows a couple more games, then I think we can say that shingo's turn has come.

Rocky Soprano
06-03-2004, 03:19 PM
I really like Shingo and would like to see him get a shot. I for one dont think hitters will figure him out especially if he becomes our closer. Hitters would never see him until the end and that doesnt give a hitter time to adjust. There is no, I'll get him next time.

Palehose13
06-03-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by ARoman27
Good point on Takatsu. It's especially surprising that he was so successful in Japan being that the Japanese players are known for being patient and waiting back on the ball. Right now Takatsu has guys laughing at the plate because they are so amazed by the way his changeup just stops. What is more amazing that is if you throw a 65mph changeup and follow it with a 87mph fastball, that fastball looks more like 95mph.
Oh yeah...and 65 mph for Shingo is a fast change-up. He often hits the low 50's. I've seen it in person, it is a nasty, nasty pitch.

:hawk

"MERCY!"

The Cheat
06-03-2004, 03:30 PM
People wont figure him out so much, as they will just have better scouting.

He's a little like Kieth Foulke when he was here. He has one dominant pitch that can make you look stupid.

taken seperately all of his pitches are extremely hittable. But when used expertly, and in conjunction, they are downright filthy.

The thing is, if shingo falls behind and allows the hitter to "sit" on one pitch, the hitter could easily deposit a souvenir in the bleachers.

As long as he stays ahead of hitters and limits the free passes, he'll be a sucessful pitcher.

He is bound to get caught though this season. Hopefully it's without men on base.

I expect him to put up decent numbers. a whip around 1. and ERA <2.5, but he's bound to go up from his current numbers.

ARoman27
06-03-2004, 03:34 PM
WOW! I've never heard of a 50mph changeup from a major league pitcher. Who had the gun on that one?

Tekijawa
06-03-2004, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by ARoman27
Good point on Takatsu. It's especially surprising that he was so successful in Japan being that the Japanese players are known for being patient and waiting back on the ball. Right now Takatsu has guys laughing at the plate because they are so amazed by the way his changeup just stops. What is more amazing that is if you throw a 65mph changeup and follow it with a 87mph fastball, that fastball looks more like 95mph.

Yeah then you sit and wait for the 65mph change up and he drops it in in the low 50's, I call it his double change up when you can throw in a range of about 35mph with the exact same motoin not many people are going to be able to put good wood on your pitches, if they are able to even pulll the bat off their shoulder.

Lip Man 1
06-03-2004, 03:40 PM
Ozzie has already personally squlshed the idea. he said so forcefully in today's newspapers.

Lip

Palehose13
06-03-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by ARoman27
WOW! I've never heard of a 50mph changeup from a major league pitcher. Who had the gun on that one?

I was at the game in Tampa and he was gunned at 51 on a strikeout pitch. I was sitting behind home plate and there was a collective *gasp* in the stadium.

Iguana775
06-03-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Yeah then you sit and wait for the 65mph change up and he drops it in in the low 50's, I call it his double change up when you can throw in a range of about 35mph with the exact same motoin not many people are going to be able to put good wood on your pitches, if they are able to even pulll the bat off their shoulder.

It's called the Double Secret Change-up.

lol

MRKARNO
06-03-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
I was at the game in Tampa and he was gunned at 51 on a strikeout pitch. I was sitting behind home plate and there was a collective *gasp* in the stadium.

Also I think there was a game in the Twins series where he displayed the 50 MPH changeup. The ball dropped like 4-6 inches right as it got to home plate. The ball was taken for a called third strike.

fuzzy_patters
06-03-2004, 04:50 PM
Ed Farmer said that the lowest he has seen Shingo clocked in a game this year was 48 mph.

batmanZoSo
06-03-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
It's called the Double Secret Change-up.

lol

It's called the double-secret-magical-super-fun-happy-changeup!

:takatsu..

"My changeup will bring much shame to your family, your home and yourself."

CWSGuy406
06-03-2004, 08:55 PM
But see, to the hitters, Shingo really isn't slow. Well, I don't mean that, but; his fastball tops out at 86 MPH, give or take two MPHs. However, when you see a couple of 65 MPH pitches, and then he throws that 86 MPH, it really jumps up on you, thus the hitters are usually late on it.

mike squires
06-03-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
I was at the game in Tampa and he was gunned at 51 on a strikeout pitch. I was sitting behind home plate and there was a collective *gasp* in the stadium.

That must have been some pitch to actually be able to hear all 10 fans gasp... :D: