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Irishsox1
06-03-2004, 03:50 PM
Paul Abbott got cut and Rick Helling was released yesterday. I won't be surprised if the Sox pick one of them for 5th spot. The 5th has been a nasty sink hole for the Sox this year and I feel better about a cagy veteran than another rookie.

OEO Magglio
06-03-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Paul Abbott got cut and Rick Helling was released yesterday. I won't be surprised if the Sox pick one of them for 5th spot. The 5th has been a nasty sink hole for the Sox this year and I feel better about a cagy veteran than another rookie.
They're both awful though.

HomeFish
06-03-2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
They're both awful though.

That's been a prerequisite for our #5 spot.

Randar68
06-03-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Paul Abbott got cut and Rick Helling was released yesterday. I won't be surprised if the Sox pick one of them for 5th spot. The 5th has been a nasty sink hole for the Sox this year and I feel better about a cagy veteran than another rookie.

Helling retired.

ARoman27
06-03-2004, 03:57 PM
Abbott and Helling are both awful. Mine as well lump Todd Ritchie in there, he's in Tampa Bay's org. and has a stipulation in his contract that if he's not up with the club by June 10th he can go FA.

I want none of them!

JRIG
06-03-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Paul Abbott got cut and Rick Helling was released yesterday. I won't be surprised if the Sox pick one of them for 5th spot. The 5th has been a nasty sink hole for the Sox this year and I feel better about a cagy veteran than another rookie.

Helling actually left the Twins. He had an "out" in his contract if he wasn't called up.

I was actually anti-Helling for a while, but his numbers the past two years aren't as bad as I thought. I suppose I wouldn't mind taking a look. But I'm still not convinced just going with 4 starters the rest of the year isn't the best course of action./

samram
06-03-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Paul Abbott got cut and Rick Helling was released yesterday. I won't be surprised if the Sox pick one of them for 5th spot. The 5th has been a nasty sink hole for the Sox this year and I feel better about a cagy veteran than another rookie.

No more Ken Hill, Joe Magrane experiments.

bobj4400
06-03-2004, 04:01 PM
Gil Meche was optioned to Tacoma by the M's yesterday...he is someone that I wouldnt mind seeing the Sox go after. KW could probably get him on the cheap if the M's are giving up on him.

HomeFish
06-03-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by ARoman27
Abbott and Helling are both awful. Mine as well lump Todd Ritchie in there, he's in Tampa Bay's org. and has a stipulation in his contract that if he's not up with the club by June 10th he can go FA.

I want none of them!

What would be the harm of signing them to minor league contracts?

jabrch
06-03-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Gil Meche was optioned to Tacoma by the M's yesterday...he is someone that I wouldnt mind seeing the Sox go after. KW could probably get him on the cheap if the M's are giving up on him.

Whatever the cost - it wouldn't be worth it. He has gotten pounded all season.

bobj4400
06-03-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Whatever the cost - it wouldn't be worth it. He has gotten pounded all season.

Yes he has, but Coop has worked wonders with a few other retreads (Schoney, Loaiza) and Meche is just a year removed from a 15 win, sub 5 ERA season. It would be worth a shot. Better than Rauch/Diaz/insert your minor leaguer du jour...

jabrch
06-03-2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
It would be worth a shot. Better than Rauch/Diaz/insert your minor leaguer du jour...

That's probably true - sad - but probably true.

kittle42
06-03-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Yes he has, but Coop has worked wonders with a few other retreads (Schoney, Loaiza) and Meche is just a year removed from a 15 win, sub 5 ERA season. It would be worth a shot. Better than Rauch/Diaz/insert your minor leaguer du jour...

Oooohhhh.....a sub 5 ERA season!

rahulsekhar
06-03-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Paul Abbott got cut and Rick Helling was released yesterday. I won't be surprised if the Sox pick one of them for 5th spot. The 5th has been a nasty sink hole for the Sox this year and I feel better about a cagy veteran than another rookie.

Lip - is that you? :D:

Seriously - it's kind of kenny's style, but I'm not sure if Coop's veteran magic works in midseason or if he really wants to have someone to work with in ST to get them ready.

Regardless, sign one to a cheap minor league deal with a promise to get a shot at the bigs and an incentive-laden deal. Couldn't hurt!

ARoman27
06-03-2004, 04:13 PM
bobj440, since when is a sub 5.00 ERA exceptional? I mean besides when your #5 spot carries a 9.00+ ERA.

There is nothing on the trash heap that is worth taking a flyer on. I think Diaz should be given another shot, he has gone back down to Charlotte and moved his record to 8-0 with a sub 3.00 ERA. His major league debut was spoiled by the rain delay and I think his frame of mind could be better after getting back to Charlotte. Bring him back for one more shot.

The Cheat
06-03-2004, 04:16 PM
Abbot made us look stupid earlier this season.

Both should be looked at -- we need a 5th starter.

and both are probably better than anything we have on the farm.

The 5th starter will need to take 4 starts before july 1, 5 before the ASB. If either guy is just a stop-gap to fill in before a better deal is done, I'm in.

bobj4400
06-03-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by kittle42


Oooohhhh.....a sub 5 ERA season!


Originally posted by ARoman27
bobj440, since when is a sub 5.00 ERA exceptional?


I never said it was exceptional. Please go back and read my post. And it is better than anything we have had in the 5th hole in about 5 years. I am not making him out to be a savior. The title of this thread is CHEAP 5TH STARTER. Let's taking some reading classes before attacking people here...

ARoman27
06-03-2004, 04:26 PM
Okay my bad, you didn't say exceptional. But to my defense the way your phrased you made Meche sound like the answer to the 5th spot which I don't think he is. We need to trade for another teams viable #3 starter to put into our 5th spot. Lets get serious, a scrap heap pitcher is not going to help us get to the promise land. It's time to get a quality starter to go with our other 4 quality starters.

poorme
06-03-2004, 04:32 PM
If either of these guys could post an ERA of ess than 9.00, it would be an improvement.

Lip Man 1
06-03-2004, 04:39 PM
I was on the Helling bandwagon last season and he pitched very well for Florida but considering he hasn't pitched all year in the bigs because of that broken leg, what kind of game shape is he in?

How long would it take for him to pitch himself back into shape? Remember in another month it's possible the Sox can get a starter.

and Rauhl, I'm for anybody who isn't one of our 'can't miss kids,' who never seem to 'can.' :smile:

Lip

ARoman27
06-03-2004, 04:41 PM
Well Helling just threw 7 innings of shutout ball in the Twins org. before walking away from the team.

kittle42
06-03-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by ARoman27
Okay my bad, you didn't say exceptional. But to my defense the way your phrased you made Meche sound like the answer to the 5th spot which I don't think he is. We need to trade for another teams viable #3 starter to put into our 5th spot. Lets get serious, a scrap heap pitcher is not going to help us get to the promise land. It's time to get a quality starter to go with our other 4 quality starters.

This is my point, too. We should not be looking for fifth starters. We have one (Schoeneweis - I don't care how well he has pitched - he should be a fifth). We should be looking at a 1-3 guy who can bump down Show and Garland.

34 Inch Stick
06-03-2004, 05:29 PM
But you can sign Helling today for no cost and probably a league minimum contract. He can trot out there the next time the 5th starter comes up and get his tryout. If he is okay, it gives you more time on a trade. If not he can be shipped out.

MRKARNO
06-03-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Gil Meche was optioned to Tacoma by the M's yesterday...he is someone that I wouldnt mind seeing the Sox go after. KW could probably get him on the cheap if the M's are giving up on him.

Trust me the M's aren't giving up on him. They're just trying to do anything to set him back on the right course. I'm pretty sure they value him pretty highly and wouldnt bother trading him because they couldnt get anything for him while they believe he could still turn into something.

SOXSINCE'70
06-03-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by samram
No more Ken Hill, Joe Magrane experiments.

Please God,not again!!!! If that's what you think,bring back Navarro and McCaskill.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! :)

rahulsekhar
06-03-2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I was on the Helling bandwagon last season and he pitched very well for Florida but considering he hasn't pitched all year in the bigs because of that broken leg, what kind of game shape is he in?

How long would it take for him to pitch himself back into shape? Remember in another month it's possible the Sox can get a starter.

and Rauhl, I'm for anybody who isn't one of our 'can't miss kids,' who never seem to 'can.' :smile:

Lip

Just yanking your chain a bit. I'm all for signing Helling to a minor league deal and seeing if we can get our now-usual "Coop mojo" working on him.

guillen4life13
06-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Just yanking your chain a bit. I'm all for signing Helling to a minor league deal and seeing if we can get our now-usual "Coop mojo" working on him.

Yeah, I think Coop could possibly help him out.

BTW Rahul, this is your cousin.

pudge
06-03-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Trust me the M's aren't giving up on him. They're just trying to do anything to set him back on the right course. I'm pretty sure they value him pretty highly and wouldnt bother trading him because they couldnt get anything for him while they believe he could still turn into something.

Don't be surprised if Meche is headed the Dan Wright route...

But the M's HAVE said that guys like Pinero and Meche will be shopped (see my other thread).

Lip Man 1
06-03-2004, 10:07 PM
Interesting in that Ken Rosenthal on the Tim Brando show yesterday on TSN radio said that Meche was on the trading block along with Garcia, Boone and possibly a few others.

Lip

ScottyTheSoxFan
06-03-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Just yanking your chain a bit. I'm all for signing Helling to a minor league deal and seeing if we can get our now-usual "Coop mojo" working on him.

wont happen. helling quit the twins because he was in the minors. no chance he signs unless he goes straight to big league club.