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BeerHandle
06-03-2004, 08:22 AM
I was so frustrated when I heard on the radio that Guillen was going with Koch in the 9th. Koch can't handle the pressure of closing anymore, he was facing his old team and there was 33,000+ screaming fans.

Guillen should have stuck with Takatsu in the 9th. There has been many games where Guillen has not brought in the right pinch hitter, right reliever or pinch ran for Thomas and Kornerko.

This is starting to bother me. Anyone else feel the same?

Palehose13
06-03-2004, 08:28 AM
there was 33,000+ screaming fans

Huh? That stadium looked pretty empty to me...

And no, I am not upset with Guillen's performance.

SEALgep
06-03-2004, 08:29 AM
Koch was doing well before that game. Besides a broken bat single followed by an error to allow the runner to score hardly qualifies as an absolute awful outing. Did he get the job done, no. However, it wasn't all his doing, and the broken bat single (there isn't much you can do about that).

BigEdWalsh
06-03-2004, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
This is starting to bother me. Anyone else feel the same?

Yes. Not entirely, but yes to some degree. Certainly in regard to the closer situation. C'mon, how many of us KNEW we were doomed before Koch threw 1 pitch?
And while overall I think Ozzie's done very well he has for sure failed to pinch run and pinch hit a number of times at key tmoments in games. But, armchair managing is so easy.

BeerHandle
06-03-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Palehose13
Huh? That stadium looked pretty empty to me...

And no, I am not upset with Guillen's performance.

From WHITESOX.COM. See the attendance at the bottom.....

WP: Koch.
IBB: McLemore (by Koch), Valentin (by Mecir), Lee (by Rhodes).
Pitches-strikes: Buehrle 122-75, Jackson 12-8, Takatsu 12-8, Koch 28-15, Adkins 11-7, Mulder 108-67, Mecir 16-9, Rhodes 37-19.
Ground outs-fly outs: Buehrle 6-6, Jackson 1-1, Takatsu 1-1, Koch 1-2, Adkins 0-0, Mulder 10-5, Mecir 1-1, Rhodes 4-1.
Batters faced: Buehrle 25, Jackson 3, Takatsu 3, Koch 6, Adkins 2, Mulder 30, Mecir 6, Rhodes 10.
Umpires: HP: Tim Timmons. 1B: Bruce Froemming. 2B: Mike Winters. 3B: Hunter Wendelstedt.
Weather: 65 degrees, sunny.
Wind: 8 mph, L to R.
T: 2:50.
Att: 33,111.

BeerHandle
06-03-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Koch was doing well before that game. Besides a broken bat single followed by an error to allow the runner to score hardly qualifies as an absolute awful outing. Did he get the job done, no. However, it wasn't all his doing, and the broken bat single (there isn't much you can do about that).

How about his WILD PITCH that let the runner advance a base?

ode to veeck
06-03-2004, 08:52 AM
Huh? That stadium looked pretty empty to me...

The place was packed, as far as baseball goes. The seats above Mount Davis in the outfield are really only used for football and about 3 miles from the game; also about as steep as our now removed OF seats at teh Cell.

All three decks around the rest of the statium were packed. Lots of end of year school kids groups in attendance for the day game.

Ozzie's doin' great, keep up the good work. I woulda thought at least one of the three successful sac bunts woulda worked, but Sox hitting only 1/20 w/ RISP hurt bigtime yesterday

BeerHandle
06-03-2004, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
woulda thought at least one of the three successful sac bunts woulda worked, but Sox hitting only 1/20 w/ RISP hurt bigtime yesterday

I agree with you, but I would have not put Koch in against his old team.

Palehose13
06-03-2004, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
The place was packed, as far as baseball goes. The seats above Mount Davis in the outfield are really only used for football and about 3 miles from the game; also about as steep as our now removed OF seats at teh Cell.

All three decks around the rest of the statium were packed. Lots of end of year school kids groups in attendance for the day game.


Wow. Could have surprised me. I thought I saw rows and rows of empty seats behind first base. I think I even made a comment about it, unless I saw that Tuesday night. Anyone else see empty rows or am I crazy?

SEALgep
06-03-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
How about his WILD PITCH that let the runner advance a base? Oh ya, I did forget about that because I listened to the 9th on the radio. Good point.

ode to veeck
06-03-2004, 09:09 AM
It was probably Tuesday night. They only had 14,000 paid, and fans started leaving in droves when it was 4-1 and even when it was 4-3. There were probably less than 5000 folks there for the extra innings. And we thought the Sox had attendance problems (weather not a factor in Oakland ever).

Palehose13
06-03-2004, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
It was probably Tuesday night. They only had 14,000 paid, and fans started leaving in droves when it was 4-1 and even when it was 4-3. There were probably less than 5000 folks there for the extra innings. And we thought the Sox had attendance problems (weather not a factor in Oakland ever).

lol..Ok. You know it has been a long week when the days start blending together...that and I have a terrible hangover.

Lip Man 1
06-03-2004, 11:52 AM
According to the story Ozzie was asked by reporters why not let Shingo close?

he replied Koch was his closer and stated it very strongly.

Get used to it because it's not going to change. Sigh...

Lip

CWSGuy406
06-03-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
How about his WILD PITCH that let the runner advance a base?

IMO Sandy should have been able to handle it, it was a breaking ball in the dirt. That was huge too, IMO. If Sandy was able to handle that pitch, then Koch would at least have confidence in being able to throw a breaking ball down in the zone. But instead - Sandy didn't handle it - thus making Koch a one-pitch pitcher. Not good.

pudge
06-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
Wow. Could have surprised me. I thought I saw rows and rows of empty seats behind first base. I think I even made a comment about it, unless I saw that Tuesday night. Anyone else see empty rows or am I crazy?

When they panned around from the corner of the outfield, you could see that the entire front-end of the stadium was totally packed. It's true that everything in the outfield was pretty much empty, which made it look empty on TV, but when they showed a different angle, I was stunned to see how crowded it was.

TDog
06-03-2004, 12:10 PM
As long as you subscribe to the closer mentality, you are going to have closers blow games, sometimes due to bad luck and sometimes due to bad pitching. There are very few exceptions. Koch has blown two save opportunities this year. Marte blew a save on opening day. I still haven't gotten over a bomb that Lee Stephens hit against Bobby Thigpen during his record-setting season.

When the Sox had (young) Forster and Gossage in the bullpen, Chuck Tanner closed with the pitcher that presented his team with an advantage in the matchups. I think most teams would be better operating with what people disdain as "bullpen by committee." Borowski closing primarily for the Cubs is ridiculous.

I don't subscribe to the closer mentality, and I would hope Guillen wouldn't bring in Marte to close (if available) to protect a one-run lead in the ninth if the team is facing a tough left-handed hitting lineup.

BeerHandle
06-03-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by TDog
As long as you subscribe to the closer mentality, you are going to have closers blow games, sometimes due to bad luck and sometimes due to bad pitching. There are very few exceptions. Koch has blown two save opportunities this year. Marte blew a save on opening day. I still haven't gotten over a bomb that Lee Stephens hit against Bobby Thigpen during his record-setting season.

When the Sox had (young) Forster and Gossage in the bullpen, Chuck Tanner closed with the pitcher that presented his team with an advantage in the matchups. I think most teams would be better operating with what people disdain as "bullpen by committee." Borowski closing primarily for the Cubs is ridiculous.

I don't subscribe to the closer mentality, and I would hope Guillen wouldn't bring in Marte to close (if available) to protect a one-run lead in the ninth if the team is facing a tough left-handed hitting lineup.

I'm with you on this one. What describe is managing a baseball team!

BeerHandle
06-03-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
Huh? That stadium looked pretty empty to me...

And no, I am not upset with Guillen's performance.

Palehose13:

It was $2 uppder deck seats in Oakland. That is why there were so many fans at the afternoon game. One of my friends was at the game and he said the place went nuts as Kock was making his way to the mound. He said everyone had confidence that he would blow the save.

Cubbiesuck13
06-04-2004, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by BigEdWalsh
Yes. Not entirely, but yes to some degree. Certainly in regard to the closer situation. C'mon, how many of us KNEW we were doomed before Koch threw 1 pitch?
And while overall I think Ozzie's done very well he has for sure failed to pinch run and pinch hit a number of times at key tmoments in games. But, armchair managing is so easy.


did you KNOW that you were doomed when he went out and did the job 7 times?