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SOXPHILE
06-02-2004, 09:58 PM
He did it again ! :bkoch: "Ladies & gentlemen...I give you your moron"

mantis1212
06-02-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by SOXPHILE
He did it again ! :bkoch: "Ladies & gentlemen...I give you your moron"

You think we're upset now, just wait until our playoff games come!

He gotta go

lowesox
06-02-2004, 10:18 PM
Threads like these are so predictable. I knew that as soon as Billy blew one game somebody would come out here and start calling him names. Not that I'm comfortable with him as our closer - I just think it's silly that nobody leaves him the slightest amount of room for error.

ChiSox7
06-02-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Threads like these are so predictable. I knew that as soon as Billy blew one game somebody would come out here and start calling him names. Not that I'm comfortable with him as our closer - I just think it's silly that nobody leaves him the slightest amount of room for error.

Exactly. Absolutely headhunting. Ready to pounce at the slightest problem.

He didn't even get hit that hard. Everybody has bad days. The offense has had 5 not so great games since last Tuesday. maybe they should pick it up.

SOXPHILE
06-02-2004, 10:27 PM
I know, it's just the frustration talking I guess. This was a game they should have won. The offense let them down too.

nasox
06-02-2004, 10:38 PM
a couple of broken bat hits and a wild pitch that should have been blocked (it went through sandy's legs). It really wasn't his fault this time.

npdempse
06-02-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by SOXPHILE
He did it again ! :bkoch: "Ladies & gentlemen...I give you your moron"

Yeah, wow, ANOTHER, a whole TWO for Koch this season. This team is toast. Time to rebuild.

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Threads like these are so predictable. I knew that as soon as Billy blew one game somebody would come out here and start calling him names. Not that I'm comfortable with him as our closer - I just think it's silly that nobody leaves him the slightest amount of room for error.

Only flaw in that logic is that Botch has earned very little room for error. He was used as a T-ball stand last season and has been far from automatic in more than 1 or 2 successful save opportunities this year. A closer like Botch SHOULD be on a short leash with White Sox fans. After all, it's not like he's earned our respect and patience by stringing along 15-20 successful..... and automatic to some degree..... save opportunities.

SoxxoS
06-03-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Threads like these are so predictable. I knew that as soon as Billy blew one game somebody would come out here and start calling him names. Not that I'm comfortable with him as our closer - I just think it's silly that nobody leaves him the slightest amount of room for error.

Sorry lowe...his past performances deserve to be under the microscope...he hasn't proved ANYTHING. Hence, everyone is deathly afraid when he comes in.

There were praise threads his last save opportunity...including some people proclaiming Botch and his velocity "might be back."

bennyw41
06-03-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Sorry lowe...his past performances deserve to be under the microscope...he hasn't proved ANYTHING. Hence, everyone is deathly afraid when he comes in.

There were praise threads his last save opportunity...including some people proclaiming Botch and his velocity "might be back."


No threads would be made if the guy didn't make 6 million a year.

SoxFan78
06-03-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Threads like these are so predictable. I knew that as soon as Billy blew one game somebody would come out here and start calling him names. Not that I'm comfortable with him as our closer - I just think it's silly that nobody leaves him the slightest amount of room for error.

So in your opinion how many runs are ok for Billy Koch to let up?

Also in your opinion, how many blown saves are ok for Billy Koch to have?

SoxxoS
06-03-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by bennyw41
No threads would be made if the guy didn't make 6 million a year.

That just adds fuel to the fire...ANYONE who blows saves (or slaves as Chip Carey would say) will get blown up on WSI.

rahulsekhar
06-03-2004, 12:01 PM
FWIW, a short list of closers with 2 or more BS

Troy Percival
Arthur Rhodes
Danny Graves
Eddie Guardado
Jason Isringhausen
Tim Worrell
Octavio Dotel

While it's true that Koch has a tendency to get in trouble and get out of it, and that's kept his BS total low, it's also true that there are very few true "stud" closers.

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan78
So in your opinion how many runs are ok for Billy Koch to let up?

Also in your opinion, how many blown saves are ok for Billy Koch to have?

According to the Botch backers here after the "O's Heart Attack" in early May, as many as he wants as long as he doesn't relinquish the lead and still gets the save.

Tragic that many Sox fans are willing to accept this but that is life when your closer is Billy Botch.

DaveIsHere
06-03-2004, 12:06 PM
You people act like we we have blown every game, damn, relax, I will take Koch in every situation

Remember...

:ozzie
"You know what, Beely is still my closer"

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
FWIW, a short list of closers with 2 or more BS

Troy Percival
Arthur Rhodes
Danny Graves
Eddie Guardado
Jason Isringhausen
Tim Worrell
Octavio Dotel

While it's true that Koch has a tendency to get in trouble and get out of it, and that's kept his BS total low, it's also true that there are very few true "stud" closers.

Dotel has closed only sparingly before this season. Isringhausen is coming off of an injury. Danny graves has 26 successful save to go with his blown ones. Rhodes may be just as bad as Botch.

No one is saying all closer should be as automatic as Gagne. What the anti-Botch legion is saying is that even when Botch does get a save, it's usually a nightmare bordering on disaster with the tying or winning run on base. Eventually, that will bite you in the butt. It did on 06/02.

poorme
06-03-2004, 12:08 PM
Besides his other horrible numbers, he's blown 2 out of 9 save opportunities, which is not good.

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by DaveIsHere
I will take Koch in every situation

Not me. If this team does make the playoffs, it will be much better off if Botch is nowhere near the mound come the 9th inning with a 3-run or less lead.

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by poorme
Besides his other horrible numbers, he's blown 2 out of 9 save opportunities, which is not good.

Nope. Almost 1/3rd. And the two blown saves were games against a Division rival and a team that the Sox have had recent problems defeating in a Divison that the Sox have had recent problems figuring out when on the road. Always good for the teams karma.

CanOfCorn
06-03-2004, 12:14 PM
Last year, Marte converted 10 out of 17. This year, he's 2 out of 6. Worse numbers than 7 out of 9.

You gotta be careful when looking at that stat. A lot of times it's meaningless.

poorme
06-03-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by CanOfCorn
Last year, Marte converted 10 out of 17. This year, he's 2 out of 6. Worse numbers than 7 out of 9.

You gotta be careful when looking at that stat. A lot of times it's meaningless.

I know saves are meaningless, but the Friends of Botch keep bringing up the fact. I just wanted to bring the analysis down to their level.

mantis1212
06-03-2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by CanOfCorn
Last year, Marte converted 10 out of 17. This year, he's 2 out of 6. Worse numbers than 7 out of 9.

You gotta be careful when looking at that stat. A lot of times it's meaningless.

That's not a good way to look at it. All set-up men have those kinds of numbers, because when they come in to set-up and then leave for the closer, that's considered a save opportunity I believe...

ChiSox7
06-03-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by mantis1212
That's not a good way to look at it. All set-up men have those kinds of numbers, because when they come in to set-up and then leave for the closer, that's considered a save opportunity I believe...

Exactly. So if he can't do it in the 8th, why would he be able to do it in the ninth? It's a VERY good way to look at it. I know quite a few managers out there that would kill for a 7 out of 9 save rate.

mantis1212
06-03-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Exactly. So if he can't do it in the 8th, why would he be able to do it in the ninth? It's a VERY good way to look at it. I know quite a few managers out there that would kill for a 7 out of 9 save rate.

You missed my point. If Marte comes in in the eighth and has a 1-2-3 inning, then doesn't finish the game, that is considered a save opportunity but no save I believe. Marte did NOT lose 7 out of 17 leads last year...

34 Inch Stick
06-03-2004, 12:43 PM
I found it very difficult to understand how Koch felt comfortable telling the media that Rauch's actions are a slap in the face when he continually gives the team a punch in the gut.

mdep524
06-03-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by bennyw41
No threads would be made if the guy didn't make 6 million a year.

You're right, because if Koch didn't make $6 million he would have already been booted out of the closers role by now, and thus we wouldn't have to talk about it.

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
You're right, because if Koch didn't make $6 million he would have already been booted out of the closers role by now, and thus we wouldn't have to talk about it.

Yet another wonderful GM decision buy KW. Pay this piece of garbage about 2 yrs./$10 million before he throws one meatball in a White Sox uniform :angry: .

CubKilla
06-03-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I found it very difficult to understand how Koch felt comfortable telling the media that Rauch's actions are a slap in the face when he continually gives the team a punch in the gut.

:)

I wish Botch would just shut up until he remembers how to pitch somewhat effectively. If he went 1-2-3 every save situation or, at the very least, every 2 or 3 (like on 06/18), then he can open his mouth and pine about fans or players.

Until then, ZIP IT!