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Fenway
06-01-2004, 08:33 PM
Something struck me looking at the White Sox program, the lack of ANY minor league teams anywhere near Chicago....

The Red Sox have three of their farm teams within 100 miles of Fenway Park

AAA Pawtucket 40 miles
AA Portland (Maine) 100 miles
SS A Lowell 25 miles

Your farm teams are scattered from North Carolina to Montana....

How at least can they not have a team in the Midwest League for starters??????

The Yankees and Mets have teams IN NYC (Staten Island and Brooklyn) and AA teams in Binghampton and Trenton, NJ

This doesn't make any sense to me, given there are plenty of minor league markets close to Chicago.

BigEdWalsh
06-01-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by fenway
Something struck me looking at the White Sox program, the lack of ANY minor league teams anywhere near Chicago....

The Red Sox have three of their farm teams within 100 miles of Fenway Park

AAA Pawtucket 40 miles
AA Portland (Maine) 100 miles
SS A Lowell 25 miles

Your farm teams are scattered from North Carolina to Montana....

How at least can they not have a team in the Midwest League for starters??????

The Yankees and Mets have teams IN NYC (Staten Island and Brooklyn) and AA teams in Binghampton and Trenton, NJ

This doesn't make any sense to me, given there are plenty of minor league markets close to Chicago.
Here, here!! I've thought the very same thing many a time. How cool would it be to have a AA or AAA affiliate nearby. I used to enjoy going up to Appleton to see the Sox A team or could catch them as visitors at Midwest League towns even closer by. But the Charlotte Knights, Birmingham Barons...how many of us Sox fans can ever see them? Likewise the people who do support those teams, how many of them ever get to see the Sox?

Palehose13
06-01-2004, 08:54 PM
We used to have a single A team in South Bend, IN (South Bend White Sox). I liked that lots cause I lived 30 minutes from South Bend in high school! An expansion team took over the club, the Diamondbacks maybe???

Fenway
06-01-2004, 08:59 PM
That tells me that your farm people perhaps are not easy to deal with. South Bend should be a prime White Sox market.

Originally posted by Palehose13
We used to have a single A team in South Bend, IN (South Bend White Sox). I liked that lots cause I lived 30 minutes from South Bend in high school! An expansion team took over the club, the Diamondbacks maybe???

mjmcend
06-01-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
We used to have a single A team in South Bend, IN (South Bend White Sox). I liked that lots cause I lived 30 minutes from South Bend in high school! An expansion team took over the club, the Diamondbacks maybe???

Yeah it is the South Bend Silver Hawks now and they are affiliated with the DBacks. It's a shame too since now I go to school in South Bend....

Palehose13
06-01-2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by mjmcend
Yeah it is the South Bend Silver Hawks now and they are affiliated with the DBacks. It's a shame too since now I go to school in South Bend....

I moved to Indiana (LaPorte) in '88 and graduated HS in '92. My "dream" as a young girl was to fall in love and marry a South Bend White Sock (one that would eventually make it to the majors). The Sox are no longer in South Bend and my dream...oh well, times they are a changin' :smile:

doublem23
06-01-2004, 09:16 PM
I honestly doubt the location of the farm team has any real impact on the Sox's fan base. The organization says they are there so scouts can see pretty much every team in the system without having to jump around.

And anyway, the only team you could get within 100 miles of Chicago would be the A-ball team. There's no AA league for miles and the closest current AAA team is in Indianapolis.

Fenway
06-01-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
There's no AA league for miles and the closest current AAA team is in Indianapolis.

Funny I thought it was at 1060 W Addison :D:

Palehose13
06-01-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by fenway
Funny I thought it was at 1060 W Addison :D:

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Spoken like a true SOX fan. :D:

doublem23
06-01-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by fenway
Funny I thought it was at 1060 W Addison :D:

LOL! :)

Fenway
06-01-2004, 09:44 PM
You could possibly put an Eastern League team into Indiana to compliment Akron

http://www.easternleague.com/teams.htm

Railsplitter
06-01-2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by fenway
Something struck me looking at the White Sox program, the lack of ANY minor league teams anywhere near Chicago....

The Red Sox have three of their farm teams within 100 miles of Fenway Park

AAA Pawtucket 40 miles
AA Portland (Maine) 100 miles
SS A Lowell 25 miles

Your farm teams are scattered from North Carolina to Montana....

How at least can they not have a team in the Midwest League for starters??????

The Yankees and Mets have teams IN NYC (Staten Island and Brooklyn) and AA teams in Binghampton and Trenton, NJ

This doesn't make any sense to me, given there are plenty of minor league markets close to Chicago.

Fenway you must be reading my mind.

Okay, it's 200 miles, but Springfield (IL) was abandoned by the Midwest League after 1995 and an independent (Frontier League) team started up in 1996. I signed on for this session partly to siggest the Sox aren't playing smart by overlooking Central Illinois. Even closer are Rockford and Kane County. I know they're A ball, but at least they're close to home.

BTW, isn't there a publication that keep track of minor leagues? Baseball Weekly or something like that?

brocco bry
06-01-2004, 10:27 PM
The Sox purposely did it to reduce travel for coaches and to ease assessment of talent. Also the weather provides more playable days.

Max Power
06-01-2004, 10:30 PM
Indianapolis recently changed affiliations (Reds to Brewers?). They could have been ours! An A team in Northwest Indiana would be huge too, as there is a good number of Sox fans in the area.
The Sox have been affiliated with Birmingham for a long time, right? Also, could someone please remind me who the AAA affiliate was before Charlotte. Was it Nashville? And for some reason I feel there was a AAA affiliate in Calagary like 15 or so years ago. Am I crazy? Thanks to anyone who can clear this up.

doublem23
06-01-2004, 10:33 PM
The Indianapolis Indians used to be Cleveland's AAA team, I believe. But yeah, they are the Brewers' team now. And yes, the Nashville Sounds were our AAA team before Charlotte. Not sure when the move was made. And, I too, seem to remember the AAA team being located in Calgary, but that would be a bit before my time, so I'm not 100% sure about that. But it seems familiar.

brocco bry
06-01-2004, 10:42 PM
Colorado Springs for a period of time, I think.

TornLabrum
06-01-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
Fenway you must be reading my mind.

Okay, it's 200 miles, but Springfield (IL) was abandoned by the Midwest League after 1995 and an independent (Frontier League) team started up in 1996. I signed on for this session partly to siggest the Sox aren't playing smart by overlooking Central Illinois. Even closer are Rockford and Kane County. I know they're A ball, but at least they're close to home.

BTW, isn't there a publication that keep track of minor leagues? Baseball Weekly or something like that?

Rockford no longer has a MWL team. They are in the Frontier League, too, iirc. Kane County is tied up with the A's for at least a few more years.

MikeW
06-01-2004, 11:12 PM
For quite a few years beginning in the early 60's the Sox had a AAA farm team in Indianapolis. After that they went to Hawaii,Iowa,Edmonton,Denver,Buffalo,Vancouver and now Charlotte. I wish they were a bit more stable and a bit closer to Illinois.

Reichardt
06-01-2004, 11:14 PM
The Indianapolis Indians are in the last year of a contract with the Brewers. I don't know how long the Sox are tied to Charlotte.

TornLabrum
06-01-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Max Power
Indianapolis recently changed affiliations (Reds to Brewers?). They could have been ours! An A team in Northwest Indiana would be huge too, as there is a good number of Sox fans in the area.

There are two teams in the MWL in Indiana that I can think of. South Bend (now with the Diamondbacks) had an association with the Sox about a decade ago before the Sox switched to Burlington, IA for a few years. Ft. Wayne is a Padres affiliate.

If the Sox don't mind a club with lower attendance, Beloit is in their own back yard, except they've been affiliated forever with the Brewers.

TornLabrum
06-01-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
The Indianapolis Indians used to be Cleveland's AAA team, I believe. But yeah, they are the Brewers' team now. And yes, the Nashville Sounds were our AAA team before Charlotte. Not sure when the move was made. And, I too, seem to remember the AAA team being located in Calgary, but that would be a bit before my time, so I'm not 100% sure about that. But it seems familiar.

I'd guess that Calgary must have been early '90s or maybe late '80s.

A. Cavatica
06-01-2004, 11:45 PM
Yup, I remember Calgary. It was after Edmonton -- which is where Ron Kittle came up from in '83.

RichFitztightly
06-02-2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Rockford no longer has a MWL team. They are in the Frontier League, too, iirc. Kane County is tied up with the A's for at least a few more years.

Isn't Kane County associated with the Marlins? I thought that's where Dontrelle Willis came from.

doublem23
06-02-2004, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by RichFitztightly
Isn't Kane County associated with the Marlins? I thought that's where Dontrelle Willis came from.

They were, but I think they just changed affiliation before this year.

thepaulbowski
06-02-2004, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I honestly doubt the location of the farm team has any real impact on the Sox's fan base. The organization says they are there so scouts can see pretty much every team in the system without having to jump around.

I'm a Sox fan because I grew up in Elkhart and went to many SB White Sox games as a kid. It gave me a rooting interest in a team in Chicago. I got to see guys come through on rehab assignments and a few guys like Randinsky that made it to the bigs. I do think it makes a difference.

Fenway
06-02-2004, 09:47 AM
Obviously the Red Sox don't need to expand their fanbase anymore than it is but by having teams in Lowell, Portland and Pawtucket, it gives fans outside of Boston a chance to be part of the Red Sox. Lowell has spld out every game for 5 years now, Portland and Pawtucket draw very well as well. Bigger plus is it gives the Boston front office a chance to cross check.

Plus having both AAA and AA with an easy car drive of Fenway they can call up players much easier. Red Sox are looking to return to the Midwest League as they want players to play in weather similar to Boston.

If Jerry can indeed mobe the radio to WSCR it will be huge. ESPN Radio just doesn't work in big cities. WFAN owns NYC leaving ESPN 1050 in the dust and the same applies in Boston and Philly.

Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I'm a Sox fan because I grew up in Elkhart and went to many SB White Sox games as a kid. It gave me a rooting interest in a team in Chicago. I got to see guys come through on rehab assignments and a few guys like Randinsky that made it to the bigs. I do think it makes a difference.

BigEdWalsh
06-02-2004, 09:55 AM
I notice mention of possible minor league sites, all of which already have teams (Indianapolis, South Bend, Beloit). How about some other cities like Addison (heck, the Sox considered moving there). Waukegan, Madison, Dubuque? Just to name a few. I'm sure there's others and probably better choices than I can think of off the top of my head.

eurotrash35
06-02-2004, 09:55 AM
The Sox should get back into the Midwest League. The Quad-Cities franchise's contract is up with the Twins this year, and I think this would be a good opportunity to make inroads in an area that is mostly Cubs and Cardinals fans. Plus I could go home for games and scout our talent. :cool:

Bobby Thigpen
06-02-2004, 10:15 AM
Springfield was a great minor league town. I enjoyed going to games there quite frequently. They used to be the Springfield Cardinals and were affiliated with St. Louis. Games were great then because they often got a lot of the Cardinals down on rehab starts. The fan base was very wide, and I know a lot of people in the Springfield area were Cardinals fans so they could track their former players. But then the Cardinals moved out of Springfield, to where I don't know, but they're in Peoria now.

Springfield was then taken over by the Springfield Sultans who were a Padres affiliate. They did a great job promoting the game since people weren't as likely to go to a game because of the Cardinals affiliation, but apparently couldn't make a run of it and moved to Lansing to become the Lugnuts. Sultans games were outstanding. I still remember seeing Barry Bonds' brother sucking it up in the Midwest League. Great stuff. I also remember the next savior of the Cubs Ty Griffin being an absolute jack ass, as well as sucking ass.

But I digress, Springfield would be an absolutely great place for the Sox to look into. The stadium may not have all the bells and whistles that a place like Peoria has, but it's a servicable park, and I'm sure the capital city would love to have baseball back. Besides, it wouldn't depress me any to have a Sox affiliate that close.

ode to veeck
06-02-2004, 10:31 AM
The Old Iowa Oaks, my that was a while back.


I think I remember Hurt coming up through Edmonton, whacking like 50 HRs in his last full minor season, before coming up to play the last year of the Old Comiskey Park

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
Springfield was a great minor league town. I enjoyed going to games there quite frequently. They used to be the Springfield Cardinals and were affiliated with St. Louis. Games were great then because they often got a lot of the Cardinals down on rehab starts. The fan base was very wide, and I know a lot of people in the Springfield area were Cardinals fans so they could track their former players. But then the Cardinals moved out of Springfield, to where I don't know, but they're in Peoria now.

Springfield was then taken over by the Springfield Sultans who were a Padres affiliate. They did a great job promoting the game since people weren't as likely to go to a game because of the Cardinals affiliation, but apparently couldn't make a run of it and moved to Lansing to become the Lugnuts. Sultans games were outstanding. I still remember seeing Barry Bonds' brother sucking it up in the Midwest League. Great stuff. I also remember the next savior of the Cubs Ty Griffin being an absolute jack ass, as well as sucking ass.

But I digress, Springfield would be an absolutely great place for the Sox to look into. The stadium may not have all the bells and whistles that a place like Peoria has, but it's a servicable park, and I'm sure the capital city would love to have baseball back. Besides, it wouldn't depress me any to have a Sox affiliate that close.

I too remember going to a Springfield Redbirds (Cards) game as a small kid. Putting a Sox minor league team in Springfield would be a great idea, even if it was just A-ball. It would be symbolic, too, as the Sox could make a claim to be the team of Illinois and make inroads for developing a fan base in Central Illinois. Switching back to 670 AM would help, too, as their signal reaches well into Central Illinois (sometimes down to Carbondale on a clear night).

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by eurotrash35
The Sox should get back into the Midwest League. The Quad-Cities franchise's contract is up with the Twins this year, and I think this would be a good opportunity to make inroads in an area that is mostly Cubs and Cardinals fans. Plus I could go home for games and scout our talent. :cool:

The Quad Cities would be an excellent site for another Sox minor league team besides Springfield.

firejauron
06-02-2004, 12:18 PM
From everything I have heard, the Gary Railcats have one of the better minor league parks in the midwest. Last year was their first year. They are an Independent team in the Northern League. Word has it they will be picked up by an MLB franchise if they have another good yearat the gate this season. It's safe and easy to get to, right off of the toll road. This would be very ideal for the White Sox. The stadium is definitely a AA or AAA type stadium.

Iwritecode
06-02-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Rockford no longer has a MWL team. They are in the Frontier League, too, iirc.

Yep. Which, IMO, is better than being a Cubs affiliate. I hated the Rockford Cubbies...

BTW, we are getting a brand spanking new staduim next year. Much better area and much easier to get to. It'll be right off the tollway. It won't actually be in Rockford though, it'll be in Loves Park. Not sure if they'll change the name of the team or not...


Originally posted by TornLabrum
If the Sox don't mind a club with lower attendance, Beloit is in their own back yard, except they've been affiliated forever with the Brewers.

I got to see Kelly Wunsch pitch in Rockford once because of that. :smile:

Of course I had no idea who he was at the time...

IowaHawksFan1
06-02-2004, 05:20 PM
I live in the QC part-time (when I'm not at school) and I know that a lot of the QC season tix holders follow the Twins and go up to the Twins games because of the affiliation several times a year. The same would happen for the Sox's if they put a minor league team there. With the renovations to the stadium there is no longer an excuse for any team not to want a team in the QC, it is beautiful and the fans in the QC have always been fairly supportive of their teams.

"D"

cpsoxfan
06-02-2004, 05:53 PM
Yeah, they did have the Single A team in South Bend. A few years ago, the Reds' farm team Indianapolis Indians split town, and the Brewers took that spot. Right there, we could have had the AAA and A minor league teams within a 150 mile radius of the South Side! Here's another idea: the Gary SouthShore Railcats have NO affiliation. That would be a great opportunity for a Single A White Sox farm team. It would make sense.

ewokpelts
06-02-2004, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by cpsoxfan
Yeah, they did have the Single A team in South Bend. A few years ago, the Reds' farm team Indianapolis Indians split town, and the Brewers took that spot. Right there, we could have had the AAA and A minor league teams within a 150 mile radius of the South Side! Here's another idea: the Gary SouthShore Railcats have NO affiliation. That would be a great opportunity for a Single A White Sox farm team. It would make sense.
railcats cant become a sox affiliate ieven if they and the sox wanted to...the cougars own mlb-affiliated minor league territory rights
Gene

TornLabrum
06-02-2004, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
They were, but I think they just changed affiliation before this year.

This is the second year of the Cougars' affiliation with the A's.

TornLabrum
06-02-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I'm a Sox fan because I grew up in Elkhart and went to many SB White Sox games as a kid. It gave me a rooting interest in a team in Chicago. I got to see guys come through on rehab assignments and a few guys like Randinsky that made it to the bigs. I do think it makes a difference.

Great jazz festival in Elkhart. So good we're going there instead of to the Cubs-Sox series this year.

TornLabrum
06-02-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by BigEdWalsh
I notice mention of possible minor league sites, all of which already have teams (Indianapolis, South Bend, Beloit). How about some other cities like Addison (heck, the Sox considered moving there). Waukegan, Madison, Dubuque? Just to name a few. I'm sure there's others and probably better choices than I can think of off the top of my head.

First of all, you just don't start a minor league club. They have owners and those owners have territorial rights, just like MLB does. In fact, I believe the Cubs and Sox had to give the MWL a waiver to locate the Cougars so close to Chicago when the owners moved the franchise from Wausau.

These clubs operate according to an agreement between the non-independent leagues (I forget the name of their organization) and MLB. The individual clubs also have working agreements with the clubs to which they are affiliated. You just don't up and start a franchise somewhere.

Sometimes a major league club will buy a minor league club. For example, before they were dropped from the MWL, the Cubs owned at least a majority interest in the Rockford club.

TornLabrum
06-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
Springfield was a great minor league town. I enjoyed going to games there quite frequently. They used to be the Springfield Cardinals and were affiliated with St. Louis. Games were great then because they often got a lot of the Cardinals down on rehab starts. The fan base was very wide, and I know a lot of people in the Springfield area were Cardinals fans so they could track their former players. But then the Cardinals moved out of Springfield, to where I don't know, but they're in Peoria now.

Springfield was then taken over by the Springfield Sultans who were a Padres affiliate. They did a great job promoting the game since people weren't as likely to go to a game because of the Cardinals affiliation, but apparently couldn't make a run of it and moved to Lansing to become the Lugnuts. Sultans games were outstanding. I still remember seeing Barry Bonds' brother sucking it up in the Midwest League. Great stuff. I also remember the next savior of the Cubs Ty Griffin being an absolute jack ass, as well as sucking ass.

But I digress, Springfield would be an absolutely great place for the Sox to look into. The stadium may not have all the bells and whistles that a place like Peoria has, but it's a servicable park, and I'm sure the capital city would love to have baseball back. Besides, it wouldn't depress me any to have a Sox affiliate that close.

Right now, Springfield is in the independent Frontier League. These clubs are not associated with MLB in any way, and do not develop players for major league clubs.

TornLabrum
06-02-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by firejauron
From everything I have heard, the Gary Railcats have one of the better minor league parks in the midwest. Last year was their first year. They are an Independent team in the Northern League. Word has it they will be picked up by an MLB franchise if they have another good yearat the gate this season. It's safe and easy to get to, right off of the toll road. This would be very ideal for the White Sox. The stadium is definitely a AA or AAA type stadium.

The only way they are getting picked up by a major league franchise is if they get out of the Northern League and are picked up by another league. From the size of their ball park, my guess is that they'd have to be picked up by the Midwest League. I don't know of any MWL franchises that the league is considering dumping at this point.

JGarlandrules20
06-02-2004, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by RichFitztightly
Isn't Kane County associated with the Marlins? I thought that's where Dontrelle Willis came from.
They used to be..now they're associated with the A's.

Josh Beckett, Miguel Cabrera, Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez also came from there.

I always see that Josh Beckett "He played ball in OUR YARD" billboard when driving out to a sox game.

TornLabrum
06-02-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by JGarlandrules20
They used to be..now they're associated with the A's.

Josh Beckett, Miguel Cabrera, Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez also came from there.

I always see that Josh Beckett "He played ball in OUR YARD" billboard when driving out to a sox game.

Don't forget Charles Johnson and Edgar Renteria.