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faneidde
06-01-2004, 07:01 PM
Here are excerpts from an article that appeared in the Evansville (Indiana) Courier and Press, my hometown paper when I'm not a school.

Also, I took the opportunity to compare and contrast my experience at a Chicago White Sox game this summer with my trip to Wrigley Field for a Cubs game a year ago. The differences were not subtle.

Cubs game: The stadium is packed, the people appreciate good baseball, and the atmosphere is like a backyard party.

White Sox game: The stadium has an empty, Wiffle Ball-game-in-an-airport-hangar feel. The fans that actually show up give off two vibes - one kind is there to enjoy the game; the other is there to get drunk and start fights with Cubs fans who decide to go slummin' on the South Side for a night. Some of the more stupid Cubs fans actually wear their Mark Prior and Sammy Sosa jerseys to the game, inviting trouble.

Cubs game: The beer has more of a hometown feel, with Old Style on tap.

White Sox game: The beer is cheaper, and odds are you'll have a cup of it poured on you by a drunk frat boy before the eighth inning.

Cubs game: If you don't get your tickets before the season, be prepared to sell off a kidney to pay the scalpers.

White Sox game: Want to sit in the lower level on the first base line? Hit the walk-up window on your way in. Heck, some nights they even let you in for half price.

Cubs game: Stick around Wrigleyville afterward and drink beer with friends and complete strangers.

White Sox game: Hustle back to the red- or green-line train before the cops leave the neighborhood. Pray that you make it back downtown in one piece.


Please join me in sending the guy responsible for this article, a Ryan Reynolds emails telling him what a pile of garbage you think the story is. I don't know how to set up a link to an email, but his email is ryanr@evansville.net

On a side not, don't have much time to post now that I'm home from school and have to work, stupid dial-up. That and I don't have a dish, so I can only see the Sox when they're on WGN or Fox, but I still read when I can and will post any more of this nonsense that I come across in southern Indiana. Go first place White Sox.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2004, 07:30 PM
Good grief...

This is just bad. I'm really glad I don't live in Evansville full time anymore since I'm in college. Sad. Just sad.

CanOfCorn
06-01-2004, 07:33 PM
***.

Do you happen to have a link to the full article? I'd enjoy calling him out on it.

BigEdWalsh
06-01-2004, 07:37 PM
This moron that wrote that article hasn't got a clue. Typical anti-Sox, anti-Southside bullsh**!
What a loser..... :thankgod

jabrch
06-01-2004, 07:41 PM
can't wait til Hangar gets a piece of this one!

jabrch
06-01-2004, 07:45 PM
http://www.courierpress.com/ecp/news_columnists/article/0,1626,ECP_747_2928467,00.html

NOTE: Ryan Reynolds phone number is on the article. You may call him at 812-464-7686.

CanOfCorn
06-01-2004, 07:46 PM
http://www.courierpress.com/ecp/news_columnists/article/0,1626,ECP_747_2928467,00.html

Registration required.

I'm writing his ass.

Palehose13
06-01-2004, 08:04 PM
This guy sounds like he is moronotti's long lost love child. :angry:

illiniwhitesox
06-01-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by faneidde
Here are excerpts from an article that appeared in the Evansville (Indiana) Courier and Press, my hometown paper when I'm not a school.

Please note my email to your friend:

I recently had the misfortune of reading your article comparing Cubs vs Sox fans. As a fan of baseball and north-sider of over 40 years, I switched allengiances in the 80's for the very reason which you do not seem to grasp.

White Sox fans are more knowledgeable about baseball. I have been to numerous Cubs games, where to my dismay, I have seen a fraternity like atmosphere. On four separate occassions, I have seen women expose their breasts in the bleachers. On one of these occassions, I saw one man drop his shorts in a sign of mutual appreciation. As a parent, I find this type of behavior troublesome. It is not exactly the type of environment I want to surround my kids with.

I find a diverse and appreciative mix of fans at White Sox games, not the upper-income level homogenous stratification that only exists at Wrigley Field.

Lastly, I do not fear for my safety after games. Please note that Bridgeport is a solid community made up of many firefighters, policeman and policewoman. I believe they would be insulted by your slanderous accusations. I also believe an unfortunate tragedy took place only 100 feet away from Wrigley Field.

Please rethink your position and make sure in the future that you have a firmer grasp of the facts.

CanOfCorn
06-02-2004, 02:50 AM
I let my freak flag fly:

Ryan,

Reading your "Cubs vs. White Sox: It's like night and day," column, I have serious doubts that you went to Chicago in the first place, with all due respect. Either that, or you work for the Tribune Co., because you managed to pack every single stereotype into your column, and in the process, made it look more like a Wrigley Field travel brochure than actual journalism.

Granted, you did have some reasonable points. You can say Wrigley is cozier, that's fine. If you can actually stomach Old Style, that's fine. Wrigleyville has bars, that's fine. Wrigley frequently sells out; that's fine, too.

With those set aside, let's get to the rest of the crap you packed into your column.

- "The people appreciate good baseball, and the atmosphere is like a backyard party." When you can actually hear good baseball over Nokia ringtones, that is. Or bumping and grinding going on in the bleachers. Wrigley has a well-deserved reputation as Chicago's largest singles bar, but I can see you're only concerned with only building on the false perceptions of the South Side.

- "...the other [half of Sox fans] is there to get drunk and start fights with Cubs fans who decide to go slummin' on the South Side for a night."

First off, great work by knocking poorer people. Extremely classy. But we'll get back to that. You'll find a higher percentage of drunks in Wrigley because most of them don't have to drive home. And you paint the picture that Cubs fans get picked on just for wearing jerseys. Do you think that these Cub fans might be getting drunk and starting trouble when they're not on their turf? That's assuming you saw it at all, which doesn't seem likely.

But let's combine the second half of that obviously biased statement with one you wrote later, "The beer is cheaper, and odds are you'll have a cup of it poured on you by a drunk frat boy before the eighth inning."

You know, if you're going to take shots at Comiskey because it's in a poor neighborhood, stick with it. It's true that the core White Sox fans are working class. Frat boys = not poor, not working class. The Cub fan base comprises the Chicagoland yuppies. That's not a knock on Yuppies, that's a truth. They have the North Side Gold Coasters. It might pay to look these things up.

That being said, the only beers I've seen spilled are by complete accidents. I'm guessing, based on your other complete guesses at truth, that this is something that you wanted to write as well, so you did it.

But since you seem on making this Tribune Co. propaganda instead of a stab at decent journalism, you keep going. So I'll keep going.

It's interesting that you make it sound like a bad thing that Comiskey has half-price nights. But then again, you seem to have something against those not as well off. At least you're consistent there. I like my kidneys just fine, thank you.

"Pray that you make it back downtown in one piece" when leaving Comiskey. Right. It's plenty safe around the ballpark. It's in the Bridgeport neighborhood, which has been growing and improving for some time now. Not to mention the police and fire stations right there. Somebody who didn't know that is somebody that either didn't care to get the South Side right, or didn't go at all.

Meanwhile, Wrigleyville, a great place to "drink beer with friends and complete strangers," has had a couple of assaults (one murder) in the last month following Cubs games. "Drink beer with friends and complete strangers, some that just might kill you" would be slightly more accurate.

If you're a Cubs fan, or a Wrigley relative, at least make it clear in the opening paragraph so people know how to take your words. Sadly, there's going to be people that read your column who will think White Sox fans are absolute scum, simply because they don't know any better, and because you don't even care to make a half-hearted attempt to get it right.

Journalists, by definition, are supposed to be professional. You're an absolute hack.

mmmmmbeeer
06-02-2004, 05:09 AM
I had to hook him up to....

I just had to take a moment to respond to your ridiculously horrible article from June 1st comparing the baseball stadiums in Chicago.

First off, I want you to know that while reading your column and realizing just how awful it really was, I was able to keep the fact that you're a southern Indiana hick working for a 5th class paper in the back of my mind. I was hoping that with this knowledge I would be able to better appreciate your attempt at journalism but I found that it did nothing more than cause my ears to hear "Dueling Banjos" as background music while trying to stomach your words.

I found your bias to be an indication of your sCrUBBIE blue blood, which immediately invokes a sense of pity. How could a reader not pity a fan of a team that hasn't won a world series in nearly a century? Hell with the championship, how could one not feel pity for a fan of a team that hasn't put together back-to-back winning seasons in a couple of decades? I know how you feel Ryan, you look to the southside of Chicago and you see a team that that's actually in first place, actually performing, not reeling from a steroid hangover. You can't help but try to search for something worth criticizing. I imagine it's the same feeling you get everytime you pick up a real newspaper with a readership larger than 100 soy bean farmers and a nursing home like that of the mighty Courier Press, that same feeling of inferiority. Throwing lies and manipulative statements to an audience, half of whom barely travel to the next county in their lifetimes, much less the big city, doesn't get you anywhere but a lifetime of stupid ass articles in sorry ass papers. No real publication would accept your slander and ridiculously unfunny potato bar jokes. I mean that potato bar joke was absolutely miserable.

I hope you find your way back to US Cellular someday and actually enter the park as a baseball fan instead of a sCrUB fan. The White Sox have a very rich history, passionate fans, and a decent product on the field. Walk up to the ticket counter, get your 1st base side tkts, grab a couple of Best Koshers with grilled onions, a nice cold Goose Island for real local flavor, some churros, sit back in your seat and really pay attention to the atmosphere. Talk baseball strategy and history to the old men sitting next to you. Watch the fireworks light up the sky after the Big Hurt gets one bomb closer to the hall of fame. It's all there for your enjoyment, you just need to open your eyes. Closed eyes and closed mindedness, especially as a journalist, will not lead to success.

TommyJohn
06-02-2004, 08:13 AM
I've come up with a solution to drivel like that. I've stopped
reading it. I feel much better as a result.

fledgedrallycap
06-02-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by CanOfCorn
I let my freak flag fly:

Ryan,

Reading your "Cubs vs. White Sox: It's like night and day," column, I have serious doubts that you went to Chicago in the first place, with all due respect. Either that, or you work for the Tribune Co., because you managed to pack every single stereotype into your column, and in the process, made it look more like a Wrigley Field travel brochure than actual journalism.

Granted, you did have some reasonable points. You can say Wrigley is cozier, that's fine. If you can actually stomach Old Style, that's fine. Wrigleyville has bars, that's fine. Wrigley frequently sells out; that's fine, too.

With those set aside, let's get to the rest of the crap you packed into your column.

- "The people appreciate good baseball, and the atmosphere is like a backyard party." When you can actually hear good baseball over Nokia ringtones, that is. Or bumping and grinding going on in the bleachers. Wrigley has a well-deserved reputation as Chicago's largest singles bar, but I can see you're only concerned with only building on the false perceptions of the South Side.

- "...the other [half of Sox fans] is there to get drunk and start fights with Cubs fans who decide to go slummin' on the South Side for a night."

First off, great work by knocking poorer people. Extremely classy. But we'll get back to that. You'll find a higher percentage of drunks in Wrigley because most of them don't have to drive home. And you paint the picture that Cubs fans get picked on just for wearing jerseys. Do you think that these Cub fans might be getting drunk and starting trouble when they're not on their turf? That's assuming you saw it at all, which doesn't seem likely.

But let's combine the second half of that obviously biased statement with one you wrote later, "The beer is cheaper, and odds are you'll have a cup of it poured on you by a drunk frat boy before the eighth inning."

You know, if you're going to take shots at Comiskey because it's in a poor neighborhood, stick with it. It's true that the core White Sox fans are working class. Frat boys = not poor, not working class. The Cub fan base comprises the Chicagoland yuppies. That's not a knock on Yuppies, that's a truth. They have the North Side Gold Coasters. It might pay to look these things up.

That being said, the only beers I've seen spilled are by complete accidents. I'm guessing, based on your other complete guesses at truth, that this is something that you wanted to write as well, so you did it.

But since you seem on making this Tribune Co. propaganda instead of a stab at decent journalism, you keep going. So I'll keep going.

It's interesting that you make it sound like a bad thing that Comiskey has half-price nights. But then again, you seem to have something against those not as well off. At least you're consistent there. I like my kidneys just fine, thank you.

"Pray that you make it back downtown in one piece" when leaving Comiskey. Right. It's plenty safe around the ballpark. It's in the Bridgeport neighborhood, which has been growing and improving for some time now. Not to mention the police and fire stations right there. Somebody who didn't know that is somebody that either didn't care to get the South Side right, or didn't go at all.

Meanwhile, Wrigleyville, a great place to "drink beer with friends and complete strangers," has had a couple of assaults (one murder) in the last month following Cubs games. "Drink beer with friends and complete strangers, some that just might kill you" would be slightly more accurate.

If you're a Cubs fan, or a Wrigley relative, at least make it clear in the opening paragraph so people know how to take your words. Sadly, there's going to be people that read your column who will think White Sox fans are absolute scum, simply because they don't know any better, and because you don't even care to make a half-hearted attempt to get it right.

Journalists, by definition, are supposed to be professional. You're an absolute hack.

I was going to spend a couple minutes writing something, but that is absolutely perfect.

voodoochile
06-02-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
I've come up with a solution to drivel like that. I've stopped
reading it. I feel much better as a result.

Ah, but the replies are pure gold... :)

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2004, 08:42 AM
Sorry, I couldn't resist writing, either. I sent it as a letter to the editor to the opinion page editor, and CC'd Ryan Reynolds. I also registered for their site with false information (very low income, out of state) so their advertising demographics will be slanted downward.

Dear Editor,

I was offended by Ryan Reynolds' column on the differences between attending baseball games at Chicago's U.S. Cellular Field and Wrigley Field.

As a journalism educator I understand that a column expresses the opinion of the writer. However, as a columnist it is Mr. Ryan's responsibility to ensure that his opinions are based on facts. To say that those who attend Sox games should "pray that you make it back downtown in one piece" is intellectual and factually dishonest. In fact, if Mr. Ryan were a responsible journalist, he would have checked the Chicago Police Department's own crime statistics to learn that the neighborhood around Wrigley Field has a higher per-capita crime rate than Bridgeport.

Also, a "fair and balanced" analysis of each team's fans would reveal that Wrigley Field is filled with many more people who fit the "frat boy" description. While some "frat boys" who spill beer on others occasionally come to Sox games, more often than not they are, as Mr. Reynolds himself admits, Cubs fans who "go slummin' on the south side" to take advantage of an opportunity to drink cheap beer and get in with a reduced cover charge of half-price admission. Furthermore, a responsible journalist would attempt to verify if fights in the bleachers occur during "full price" admission games. (They do not.) So what is the factor that is present when fights break out? The presence of drunk "frat boy" Cubs fans. Who's starting these fights? Inebriated Cubs fans.

Mr. Reynolds column was an example of the utter vacuousness of today's so-called journalism. I am disgusted and offended.

nasox
06-02-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ah, but the replies are pure gold... :)

Too bad he is just going to click the delete box when he sees them.........All that wasted time.........

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by nasox
Too bad he is just going to click the delete box when he sees them.........All that wasted time.........

That's why I sent it as a letter to the editor as well.

CanOfCorn
06-02-2004, 09:32 AM
Which editor did you send your response to? I'll C&P what I wrote into another email.

CanOfCorn
06-02-2004, 09:34 AM
Nevermind. You mentioned it already. GD literacy.

soxtalker
06-02-2004, 09:49 AM
It is quite possible, maybe even likely, that he is a Cubs fan or has been influenced by friends who are Cubs fans. However, it might not be a bad idea to pay attention to some of his impressions. The statement about Cubs fans appreciating good baseball surprised me a bit. However, the characterization of the people attending Sox games has a ring of truth in it. The comments about the drunk fans dumping on the Cubs fans who show up is pretty consistent with the threads we've had about the Tuesday night fights. Yes, I know that there are many who say that the Cubs fans are instigating it (sometimes simply by wearing their Cubs shirts and caps), but think how this looks to an visitor who may have no affiliation to either team. Also, the ball park being half empty is a constant theme on this board. Quite frankly, I find it pretty enjoyable to be able to have my choice of seats. But, again, to an outside observer, it doesn't appear to be a very exciting atmosphere.

CanOfCorn
06-02-2004, 10:01 AM
I think I was more offended as a journalist.

MarkM2112
06-02-2004, 10:08 AM
Any idea how old this guy is? If he works for a 5th rate paper like that, it might be one of his first jobs out of college, and therefore, he might PREFER the "frat party" atmosphere of Wrigley... (I mean, c'mon... he actually LIKES Old Style???)

woodenleg
06-02-2004, 10:11 AM
You can't do anything about a columnist who has a negative opinion of a team and its fans.

He is obligated, however, to get his facts right. The worst thing in this article is his mischaracterization of the neighborhood.

Gee - he's from Evansville. Who told him all that bad stuff about the south side, anyway? He's probably like my college roommate - a journalism student at Medill who refused to ride the 'L' all four years she was there (too 'scary').