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View Full Version : Gammons Notes on Sox (not his chat)


guillen4life13
05-31-2004, 07:09 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1813124


Perhaps the most surprising element in the AL Central is the fact that the White Sox starters are among the top three staffs in the league -- despite the fact they are 0-8 with their fifth starters. In fact, they haven't had a win out of fifth starter since 2002.

We know the Yankees, Red Sox, A's, White Sox , Cubs, Marlins, Cardinals, Padres and Twins will deal if they stay in it. The Twins made a division-winning trade for Shannon Stewart last season, Williams always goes after it , the Cubs traded for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton, Oakland's history is to get players like Jermaine Dye, Ray Durham, Ricardo Rincon and Jose Guillen and Marlins GM Larry Beinfest helped get his team into the Series by acquiring Ugueth Urbina and Jeff Conine.

Yet, it is well known that Williams has been trying to piece together a deal with Bill Bavasi for Garcia , and that the Yankees, Twins, Red Sox, Rangers, Cardinals, Padres, Dodgers, Braves and Orioles would be joined in the chase by the Giants, D-Backs and even the Phillies if Vincente Padilla is down for a long time.

There will be a major scrum for Beltran, with this major understanding: Scott Boras wants to get Beltran into the free agent market, which means that what a club gives up is for a three- to four-month rental and a head start on the courtship. That clearly would throw the Padres, Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox and A's into the line. Maybe the Giants, Diamondbacks and Marlins.


Delicious. Good to see that Boston Gammons is starting to give the Sox credit, when you compile this with his chat. Hopefully everything he says about the Sox is true.

Can you imagine this rotation?

Garcia
Buehrle
Loaiza
Schoenweis
Garland


Jesus Christ! When you have a 20 game winner as your third starter, that's amazing! This is the type of top three that could compete with Oakland's Big Three! It's a powerhouse rotation!

SoxxoS
05-31-2004, 07:12 PM
I could have sworn Jost Stewart beat the Tigers last year as the 5th starter...anyone back me up?

Brian26
05-31-2004, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I could have sworn Jost Stewart beat the Tigers last year as the 5th starter...anyone back me up?

I could swear he won a game for us last April or May, too. The question is, was he in the 4th starter's role at that point?
I guess we had Colon, Buehrle, Garland, and Loaiza ahead of him, so he had to be #5.

SoxxoS
05-31-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I could swear he won a game for us last April or May, too. The question is, was he in the 4th starter's role at that point?
I guess we had Colon, Buehrle, Garland, and Loaiza ahead of him, so he had to be #5.

:boston

"I'm still a moron..."

ChiSox7
05-31-2004, 07:23 PM
Garcia is mediocre away from Safeco

owensmouth
05-31-2004, 07:32 PM
Cotts was one and one as a starter last year.

dirty-mutt
05-31-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Garcia is mediocre away from Safeco

3 year averages (2001-2003) for Freddy Garcia from espn.com

Home:
ERA W L SV SVO G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
3.76 23 16 0 0 50 50 2 330.2 308 145 138 40 111 227 .245

Away:
4.14 23 14 0 0 51 51 4 333.0 314 162 153 37 92 261 .247

dickallen15
05-31-2004, 07:36 PM
Loaisa started the season as the #5 starter, and won his first 5 or so. Gammons info is wrong.

ChiSox7
05-31-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by dirty-mutt
3 year averages (2001-2003) for Freddy Garcia from espn.com

Home:
ERA W L SV SVO G GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
3.76 23 16 0 0 50 50 2 330.2 308 145 138 40 111 227 .245

Away:
4.14 23 14 0 0 51 51 4 333.0 314 162 153 37 92 261 .247

yah. a 4.15-20 ERA is medicore when thats what you will get everytime out, especially when you consider it will go up in our park. I'd gladly take him for a couple B level prospects, but there is NO chance of that, and he is NOT an ace, and thats what Sea will demand with the number of teams courting him.

beckett21
05-31-2004, 07:45 PM
SHOCKING that Gammons could be wrong on anything.

It is the worst kept secret in baseball that the Sox need a 5th starter. Nothing earth-shattering here to see our name listed with no less than TWELVE other teams......

Nice scoop Gammons. Why not just list the other 18 teams and hedge your bet a little bit more? I think you forgot a few...

doublem23
05-31-2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Loaisa started the season as the #5 starter, and won his first 5 or so. Gammons info is wrong.

The fifth starter is an elusive defintion, but I think Loaiza was technically the 4th starter, after Colon, Buehrle, and Garland.

dickallen15
05-31-2004, 08:17 PM
Cotts won a start last year, so did Stewart, and so did Wright, even if Loaisa was technically #4, Gammons is still wrong.

doublem23
05-31-2004, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Cotts won a start last year, so did Stewart, and so did Wright, even if Loaisa was technically #4, Gammons is still wrong.

Oh, I'm sure he is... I was just maybe trying to figure out what he meant.

dickallen15
05-31-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Oh, I'm sure he is... I was just maybe trying to figure out what he meant.

But it has been only 3 wins in the last 200 games, so it might as well be 0. :D:

Lip Man 1
05-31-2004, 08:50 PM
A number of different sources from Joe Cowley to Bob Foltman have the Sox 5th starters as being 3-18 for the past two seasons.

They are 0-7 this year not 0-8. In all of the games that the 5th starters have pitched the Sox are 1-7. They won the game Diaz started against Baltimore in the second game of the DH.

As far as Loazia...he was not the 5th starter last year... coming out of his incredible spring training he was bumped up. The 5th starter was Wright even after he got hurt.

Lip

Tekijawa
06-01-2004, 01:03 PM
Along with the article about the Sox making some possible moves soon they had this at the bottom...

News and notes


Perhaps the most surprising element in the AL Central is the fact that the White Sox starters are among the top three staffs in the league -- despite the fact they are 0-8 with their fifth starters. In fact, they haven't had a win out of a fifth starter since 2002.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1813124

mdep524
06-01-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
Along with the article about the Sox making some possible moves soon they had this at the bottom...

News and notes


Perhaps the most surprising element in the AL Central is the fact that the White Sox starters are among the top three staffs in the league -- despite the fact they are 0-8 with their fifth starters. In fact, they haven't had a win out of a fifth starter since 2002.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1813124

This is not entirely true- just off the top of my head I can tell you that Neal Cotts won a start from the 5th spot after being called up last fall, so it hasn't been since 2002. Still, it is nothing to brag about. Though the rest of the Sox staff is really getting the job done so far this year!

MisterB
06-01-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
This is not entirely true- just off the top of my head I can tell you that Neal Cotts won a start from the 5th spot after being called up last fall, so it hasn't been since 2002. Still, it is nothing to brag about. Though the rest of the Sox staff is really getting the job done so far this year!

August 22, 2003 vs. Texas. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=230822104)

Gammons gets it wrong again. (shocking!)

bennyw41
06-01-2004, 03:07 PM
Perhaps he meant a solid number 5, and not a spot starter. None of those pitchers(Stewart, Cotts) were consistent number 5's, otherwise they would be there now. They were in fact, call-ups, or spot starters. I think Gammons made his point regardless.