PDA

View Full Version : Two month grades


raul12
05-31-2004, 11:02 AM
Alright, since today is an off day, we are virtually through two months of the season....and we're in FIRST PLACE. Time to hand out awards! Here's my take on grades RELATIVE to what we expected them to do.

SP:
Buerhle: A- He didn't do so hot first half of last year, but turned it on in the second half. There was some doubt as to which Buerhle we'd get this year, and we're all glad to see we got the good one back.

Loaiza: B+ Has turned it on in the last few starts, but no way could he top last year's performance...or could he? No reason to think he won't be "lights out" loaiza for the rest of the year.

Show: A+ Who'd a thunk it?

Garland: A- Nice to see him finally turning the corner. I drafted him in my fantasy team expecting Ozzie would bring out the good in him, and it's paid off.

Fifth starter by committee: F (need I say more?)

Bullpen: A Can't argue with what we've gotten so far, and it's good to see Billy back to some semblance of effectiveness.

Olivo/Alomar: B Have been serviceable in the offensive department, but defense at the C position is objective No. 1. The amount of SB this team has given up is alarming, but that I think it mainly due to our pitchers.

Konerko: A Although he hasn't been the team's best player, following last year's debacle, we'd have all been ecstatic had he been mediocre. He's been much better than that.

Harris: A+ Thank goodness I was wrong.

Valentin: B His power numbers and average have been good; k's way too much; defense at times is shoddy, but overall good. AND FOR THE LAST TIME PEOPLE, THERE'S NO @$#@ "E" AT THE END!

Crede: D His defense has been good, and he's had some clutch hits, but we're all kidding ourselves if we didn't think he'd be better.

Lee: B His mental errors are mind boggling, but can't argue with a 17 game hitting streak.

Rowand: D All of us based in reality weren't expecting much, but if the FOC would have to give him F.

Maggs: B- Although he's been solid, his numbers don't justify his paycheck.

Uribe: A++ Wow.

Rest of Bench (Gload particularly): B They've done their job for the most part.

CyYoung5621
05-31-2004, 02:29 PM
Joe Crede's defense is a lot better than just good. Not too many other hot corner fielders better than him out there.

Hangar18
05-31-2004, 04:43 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf, owner. F+. His decision to NOT up the payroll, thus self-imposing the SOX in acquiring another Starter to make up for the LOSS of their #1 starter, has hurt them immensely. What is most hurtful, is that the SOX continue to ignore their weaknesses in the offseason, INstead, preferring to let their Problems COMPOUND, thus driving up the PRICE to replace said problem even higher than if they'd simply addressed the problem when it arose originally. Thats what I find so Ironic. IN their Cheapness to watch the bottom line, finding a 5th starter will now Cost the SOX not only an Increase in payroll, but ALSO SOME Higher End Prospects. Nice Job Jerry.
Reason 3,442 why the SOX havnt been to a World Series since 1959

voodoochile
05-31-2004, 04:47 PM
No grade for Frank?

I realize he hasn't taken the field so far this year, but he is Frank Thomas...

ChiSox7
05-31-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Jerry Reinsdorf, owner. F+. His decision to NOT up the payroll, thus self-imposing the SOX in acquiring another Starter to make up for the LOSS of their #1 starter, has hurt them immensely. What is most hurtful, is that the SOX continue to ignore their weaknesses in the offseason, INstead, preferring to let their Problems COMPOUND, thus driving up the PRICE to replace said problem even higher than if they'd simply addressed the problem when it arose originally. Thats what I find so Ironic. IN their Cheapness to watch the bottom line, finding a 5th starter will now Cost the SOX not only an Increase in payroll, but ALSO SOME Higher End Prospects. Nice Job Jerry.
Reason 3,442 why the SOX havnt been to a World Series since 1959

But he DID up the payroll. Up to 60+ million which was more than 5 above last year. Additionally, he has already said that he would take on a good chunk of payroll at the allstar break.

doublem23
05-31-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
But he DID up the payroll. Up to 60+ million which was more than 5 above last year. Additionally, he has already said that he would take on a good chunk of payroll at the allstar break.

I'll believe that when I see it. For now, Reinsdorf does deserve, at best, a D.

ChiSox7
05-31-2004, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I'll believe that when I see it. For now, Reinsdorf does deserve, at best, a D.

I think 63 or 64 million is pretty good. I'm not sure what you guys are looking for.

batmanZoSo
05-31-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by raul12
Alright, since today is an off day, we are virtually through two months of the season....and we're in FIRST PLACE. Time to hand out awards! Here's my take on grades RELATIVE to what we expected them to do.

SP:
Buerhle: A- He didn't do so hot first half of last year, but turned it on in the second half. There was some doubt as to which Buerhle we'd get this year, and we're all glad to see we got the good one back.

Loaiza: B+ Has turned it on in the last few starts, but no way could he top last year's performance...or could he? No reason to think he won't be "lights out" loaiza for the rest of the year.

Show: A+ Who'd a thunk it?

Garland: A- Nice to see him finally turning the corner. I drafted him in my fantasy team expecting Ozzie would bring out the good in him, and it's paid off.

Fifth starter by committee: F (need I say more?)

Bullpen: A Can't argue with what we've gotten so far, and it's good to see Billy back to some semblance of effectiveness.

Olivo/Alomar: B Have been serviceable in the offensive department, but defense at the C position is objective No. 1. The amount of SB this team has given up is alarming, but that I think it mainly due to our pitchers.

Konerko: A Although he hasn't been the team's best player, following last year's debacle, we'd have all been ecstatic had he been mediocre. He's been much better than that.

Harris: A+ Thank goodness I was wrong.

Valentin: B His power numbers and average have been good; k's way too much; defense at times is shoddy, but overall good. AND FOR THE LAST TIME PEOPLE, THERE'S NO @$#@ "E" AT THE END!

Crede: D His defense has been good, and he's had some clutch hits, but we're all kidding ourselves if we didn't think he'd be better.

Lee: B His mental errors are mind boggling, but can't argue with a 17 game hitting streak.

Rowand: D All of us based in reality weren't expecting much, but if the FOC would have to give him F.

Maggs: B- Although he's been solid, his numbers don't justify his paycheck.

Uribe: A++ Wow.

Rest of Bench (Gload particularly): B They've done their job for the most part.

A+
Buehrle, Uribe, Harris, Shingo, Schoeneweis, Gload

A-
Loaiza, Garland, Thomas, Olivo

B
Koch, Konerko, Magglio

C
Politte, Perez

D
Rowand, Lee

F
Crede, Wright, Diaz, and um, I'm gonna go with Rauch too

ChiSox7
05-31-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
A+
Buehrle, Uribe, Harris, Shingo, Schoeneweis, Gload

A-
Loaiza, Garland, Thomas, Olivo

B
Koch, Konerko, Magglio

C
Politte, Perez

D
Rowand, Lee

F
Crede, Wright, Diaz, and um, I'm gonna go with Rauch too

A 'D' for Lee? Everything else looks spot on, but his numbers and production are pretty solid. I'd say a C+/B- just because he doesnt have the power this year so far.

batmanZoSo
05-31-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
A 'D' for Lee? Everything else looks spot on, but his numbers and production are pretty solid. I'd say a C+/B- just because he doesnt have the power this year so far.

4 homers and 24 rbis. I think all his homers were in April too. It sure seems like it. And talk about a weak 16 game hitting streak as they go. It's the usual with him--several fortnights in a row without doing anything to help the team.

Hangar18
05-31-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
But he DID up the payroll. Up to 60+ million which was more than 5 above last year. Additionally, he has already said that he would take on a good chunk of payroll at the allstar break.

Good Point, and IM GLAD you brought this up. Indeed, the Payroll HAS BEEN UPPED.........but NOT by Uncle Jerrys Blessing.
The payroll went up because of player salaries Kicking In, with certain Players getting "raises" this season. THIS IS WHY the payroll went up.

If anyone remembers, the SOX were Feverishly trying to GET RID OF PLAYERS that were DUE SALARY RAISES. Uncle Jerry basically tried to Waltz into a restaurant, Order Steak & Lobster Dinners, the Best bottles of wine, then at dessert, tried to slip out the Kitchen Door to avoid payment, only to find it Bolted Shut.

Salary raises that were negotiated by/and bound to Uncle Jerry. He tried to get slick and "get rid" of most of these guys in the offseason, but His hands became "tied" when noone wanted the players, thus forcing the Payroll to "increase", and the SOX and their Marketers/Season ticket salespeople were then quick to POint out to us late in Spring Training. Fact is, they tried to DUMP SALARY, but noone wanted our players, and THAT is why our payroll increased. Dont Be Fooled. Had the CHICAGO MEDIA been doing their Jobs, they wouldve pointed this out on a daily basis. Instead, they were more worried about Prior Watches/Talking Tricep Interviews/and covering up Murders in Wrigleyville.

However, Uncle Jerry sees were the real deal this year, and NOW finally wants to the SOX to up the payroll. Dummy. Baseball is like anyother business, You buy things BEFORE everyone else needs them, and now, the same pitcher that wouldve cost them a FreeAgents Salary is NOW going to cost them that AND THE LOSS OF KEY PROSPECTS. Nice Job Uncle Jerry, if you were working for Trump, he'd say "YOUR FIRED".

ChiSox7
05-31-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Good Point, and IM GLAD you brought this up. Indeed, the Payroll HAS BEEN UPPED.........but NOT by Uncle Jerrys Blessing.
The payroll went up because of player salaries Kicking In, with certain Players getting "raises" this season. THIS IS WHY the payroll went up.

If anyone remembers, the SOX were Feverishly trying to GET RID OF PLAYERS that were DUE SALARY RAISES, Salary raises that were negotiated by/and bound to Uncle Jerry. He tried to get slick and "get rid" of most of these guys in the offseason, but His hands became "tied" when noone wanted the players, thus forcing the Payroll to "increase", and the SOX and their Marketers/Season ticket salespeople were then quick to POint out to us late in Spring Training. Fact is, they tried to DUMP SALARY, but noone wanted our players, and THAT is why our payroll increased. Dont Be Fooled. Had the CHICAGO MEDIA been doing their Jobs, they wouldve pointed this out on a daily basis. Instead, they were more worried about Prior Watches/Talking Tricep Interviews/and covering up Murders in Wrigleyville.

However, Uncle Jerry sees were the real deal this year, and NOW finally wants to the SOX to up the payroll. Dummy. Baseball is like anyother business, You buy things BEFORE everyone else needs them, and now, the same pitcher that wouldve cost them a FreeAgents Salary is NOW going to cost them that AND THE LOSS OF KEY PROSPECTS. Nice Job Uncle Jerry, if you were working for Trump, he'd say "YOUR FIRED".

I can understand what your saying, but at the same time, I think I can understand both sides of the argument. JR gave out those big contracts, because he wanted the team to win, and in all honesty, they were the most talented team in both 2002 and 2003, and they definately SHOULD have won, but the manager was not great and the players were stupid and not clutch like they should have been. That's two years they should have produced for Jerry's money, and didn't, and we didn't go to the playoffs when we were clearly a good team, at least equal with the Twins. If Jerry's money was mine, which it is not, I would be hesitant to go out and spend a lot because you don't know what you are going to get with these core group of players.

I see both sides of the argument, but I'm not sure who is right. I think both arguments have some truth to them. I don't think the last couple of years has been Jerry's fault though. I think its the fact that the manager wasn't great and the players didn't perform. THey should have, but they didn't. Jerry can't help that.

RKMeibalane
05-31-2004, 06:10 PM
:hurt

"Why don't I get a grade?"

:ohno

"Because you are the standard by which all White Sox are judged, Mr. Thomas."

:hurt

"Good point."

Brian26
05-31-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
A+
Buehrle, Uribe, Harris, Shingo, Schoeneweis, Gload


5 guys overachieving there too, which is awesome. Very, very pleasant surprises.

StockdaleForVeep
05-31-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by raul12



Harris: A+ Thank goodness I was wrong.
.



Thank god we were all wrong pretty much

MRKARNO
05-31-2004, 09:29 PM
Harris A Could be A+ if he stole some more bases
Uribe A+ Power, average, Speed, good D, cant ask for much more
Ordonez B He's doing what we expect him to. Nothing more nothing less
Thomas A The way he's been hitting lately he might raise his career .309 average this year. Done what we expected, but more. .457 OBP with a sub .300 average is incredible
Lee B- Good average and mediocre RBI #s, but the power is just nonexistant. Hasnt hit one out in over a month.
Valentin B He's set the tone early in a few games. Occurance of errors has slowed. Still Ks too much. Great power for an SS
Konerko A- Very clutch. Good OBP Good power, Good production, good rebound from last year
Crede C- Great defense except those glove issues. Good Power, mediocre production. Dispicable Average and OBP
Olivo A- Doing almost everything right when he gets the chance to play, which isnt enough. Not his fault that the runners were going wild earlier. A little too agressive on the paths at times

Alomar A- Can't ask too much more from this guy except to actually make an attemp to throw out the runner a bit more
Gload B+ He's done his job pretty well
Perez B Playing about at expected level
Rowand B- He could be playing a bit better

Buehrle A+ If it werent for that ridiculously bad start against NYY (2 IP 8 ER) His ERA would be 2.50
Loaiza B+ This grade will get better if his last start is an indication
Garland A- Needs to finish his starts better but overall he's finally coming around
Schoeneweis A+ Whodathunkit? Beside KW of course
5th starter F - - - - - - - -- - What a freaking joke

Adkins A He's done the job well when everyone called him a crappy player
Takatsu A+ Shingo is the man
Politte D- He's not good so far
Jackson B+ Could be a little better, but still pretty good
Cotts A- Out of the bullpen at least. I cant fault him for the job as starter
Marte B+ He's been pretty good. A few of his blown saves have really peeved me though
Koch B+ Only one blown save, a few which required heart medication and since then he's been good.

nitetrain8601
05-31-2004, 11:17 PM
Hangar, I'm sure if you do the research the Sox have the fourth or fifth biggest payroll in the AL. And he has already said he would open up the pocketbooks. Get over the Strike year. It's done. It's over. We won't get that year back if JR resigns. Deal with it.

nasox
06-01-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by nitetrain8601
Hangar, I'm sure if you do the research the Sox have the fourth or fifth biggest payroll in the AL. And he has already said he would open up the pocketbooks. Get over the Strike year. It's done. It's over. We won't get that year back if JR resigns. Deal with it.

Allright, buddy, if you are going to make sense, just do it away from us, OK? :D:

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 09:02 AM
My Grades Related to how the players have preformed compared to their fellow position players around the league. So Konerko gets compared to fellow 1st baseman.

C
Olivio - C- Still needs to learn how to take a pitch
Alomar - F Replacement level player who gets too much playing time.

1B
Konerko - B- Middle of the pack first baseman.

2B
Harris - C+ If you are slugging in the .300 your OBP needs to be higher that .375.
Uribe - A+ still needs to get a little bit more selective at the plate or he is a good candidate to fall off quickly.

3B
Crede - F- worse then replacement production.

SS
Valentin - B Still in the top third of Shortstops.

LF
Lee - D Barely over replacement level production so far. Heating up though, so not a F.

CF - Major hole for the Sox
Rowand - F Replacement level for starter isn't good.
Perez - C You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

RF
Mags - B+
Gload - C - You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

DH - Thomas A+ Best DH in the game

Staff Overall A
Buehrle - A
Garland - A
Loaiza - B+
Schoeneweis - B+
Wright - INC I think he was pitching injured, from pitching well in Zona to absolute crap isn't normal.

Pen Overall B-
Takatsu - B Just not enough work to get an A
Adkins - B-
Cotts - B-
Koch - D
Marte - B-
Wunsch - D
Politte - F
Jackson - C

raul12
06-01-2004, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
:hurt

"Why don't I get a grade?"

:ohno

"Because you are the standard by which all White Sox are judged, Mr. Thomas."

:hurt

"Good point."

Oops! Yeah, Frank is da man.

skottyj242
06-01-2004, 11:03 AM
How come nodody has looked at the coaching staff? Here's mine:

Ozzie: B, good manager but this team SHOULD win with anyone.

Don "Magic Juan" Cooper: A, the proof is Sho.

Santana: D, too many people thrown out at second, not sure if
it's fault.

Cora: D-, see above

Kusyner: Inc, does he really even do anything?

Baines: B, has kept Ozzie under control for the most part.

Walker: B-, shown signs of brilliance but the bats have gone cold too often at the worst times.

And last but not least the most important
person on the staff:

Man Soo Lee: A+++++++++++++++++, is there anyone better?

fquaye149
06-01-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77

Harris - C+ If you are slugging in the .300 your OBP needs to be higher that .375.

Crede - F- worse then replacement production.

Lee - D Barely over replacement level production so far. Heating up though, so not a F.

Garland - A
Loaiza - B+
Schoeneweis - B+

Adkins - B-
Cotts - B-
Koch - D
Wunsch - D
Politte - F



give me a ****ing break

idseer
06-01-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
A+
Buehrle, Uribe, Harris, Shingo, Schoeneweis, Gload

A-
Loaiza, Garland, Thomas, Olivo

B
Koch, Konerko, Magglio

C
Politte, Perez

D
Rowand, Lee

F
Crede, Wright, Diaz, and um, I'm gonna go with Rauch too

time to get real. :smile:

as usual everyone goes overboard handing out A's. if buehrle is an A+ then what is cliff lee or even kenny rogers? A+++'s?

the only A i see on this team (other than our manager) would be shingo. and i'm not sure he's even an A because he's only thrown 18 innings.

A = takatsu
B+ = uribe
B = buehrle, loaiza, garland, thomas, magglio
B- = olivo, schoeneweis, harris
C+ = konerko, koch, adkins,
C = lee, rowand, perez, marte, jackson, cotts, gload, valentin
C- = alomar
D+ = crede
D = politte

i don't see any F's based on pitching at least 10 innings or playing at least 10 games.

btw, i happen to think these are excellent ratings at the quarter point. especially in the pitching dept.

JRIG
06-01-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by idseer
time to get real. :smile:

as usual everyone goes overboard handing out A's. if buehrle is an A+ then what is cliff lee or even kenny rogers? A+++'s?

the only A i see on this team (other than our manager) would be shingo. and i'm not sure he's even an A because he's only thrown 18 innings.

A = takatsu
B+ = uribe
B = buehrle, loaiza, garland, thomas, magglio
B- = olivo, schoeneweis, harris
C+ = konerko, koch, adkins,
C = lee, rowand, perez, marte, jackson, cotts, gload, valentin
C- = alomar
D+ = crede
D = politte

i don't see any F's based on pitching at least 10 innings or playing at least 10 games.

btw, i happen to think these are excellent ratings at the quarter point. especially in the pitching dept.

I think most of these grades are very fair. I'd probably give Uribe an A, and Buehrle maybe an A-. But I'm curious as to what you'd like to see Frank do better. He's 4th in the AL in OPS and is by far the best DH in the AL. By your logic, if Frank gets a B, what other DH in the league gets an A?

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
give me a ****ing break

I am sorry, I forgot to take my hit of the Sox crack today. Try to look at things in object way and the homers jump on you.

idseer
06-01-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
I think most of these grades are very fair. I'd probably give Uribe an A, and Buehrle maybe an A-. But I'm curious as to what you'd like to see Frank do better. He's 4th in the AL in OPS and is by far the best DH in the AL. By your logic, if Frank gets a B, what other DH in the league gets an A?

uribe is hitting .335 it's true and has probably been an emotional lift for the team, but he's only tied for 22 in runs, tied for 11th in sb's, he has 7 hr's but only 19 rbi's, doesn't really have a position (not his fault), tied for 63rd in walks, etc. while he's been a spectacular surprise i don't really think he's an A.
but i can't argue too much about it. i can see why most see him that way.

buehrle has been better than i thought he'd be too. but he's still given up 80 hits in 70 innings and has had a LOT of support in that 5 - 1 record. his k/bb ratio is good but there are some way better.

as for thomas ... perhaps no DH deserves an A at this point.
why should he get higher than a B? he's 27th in rbi's, 9th in hr's, 10th in runs, and 32nd in avg. granted he's 4th in ops but mainly becase he leads the league in bb's. personally i am not as impressed by ops as much as some are. i understand the value of the stat but i also don't think it outwieghs everything else.
frankly i'm pretty happy he's a B right now. he's doing better than i expected he would.

ChiSox7
06-01-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I am sorry, I forgot to take my hit of the Sox crack today. Try to look at things in object way and the homers jump on you.

Originally posted by Dadawg_77
My Grades Related to how the players have preformed compared to their fellow position players around the league. So Konerko gets compared to fellow 1st baseman.

C
Olivio - C- Still needs to learn how to take a pitch
Alomar - F Replacement level player who gets too much playing time.

1B
Konerko - B- Middle of the pack first baseman.

2B
Harris - C+ If you are slugging in the .300 your OBP needs to be higher that .375.
Uribe - A+ still needs to get a little bit more selective at the plate or he is a good candidate to fall off quickly.

3B
Crede - F- worse then replacement production.

SS
Valentin - B Still in the top third of Shortstops.

LF
Lee - D Barely over replacement level production so far. Heating up though, so not a F.

CF - Major hole for the Sox
Rowand - F Replacement level for starter isn't good.
Perez - C You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

RF
Mags - B+
Gload - C - You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

DH - Thomas A+ Best DH in the game

Staff Overall A
Buehrle - A
Garland - A
Loaiza - B+
Schoeneweis - B+
Wright - INC I think he was pitching injured, from pitching well in Zona to absolute crap isn't normal.

Pen Overall B-
Takatsu - B Just not enough work to get an A
Adkins - B-
Cotts - B-
Koch - D
Marte - B-
Wunsch - D
Politte - F
Jackson - C

Since you've talked in the language of replacement players, I figured that I would have to get your facts straight. First a quick statment about the bullpen.

Our bullpen is THIRD in the league in ERA. Top 5 in staying away from blown saves? You can give them a B- if you wnat, but that's a weird grading scale. And giving Koch a D obvioulsy shows that you have some kind of personal problem with him. He has an ERA lower than Garland, who you give an A. He's only blown one save, which any team would KILL for. He has a LOWER WHIP than ANYONE in our rotation, save for Elo. He has one of the highest K/9 rates in the MLB. His opponent batting average is .213. Awesome. You need to get off your high horse about Koch. He's been one of the best closers in the league whether you want to believe it or not.

And the fact that Shingo doesn't get an 'A' AMAZES me. There were FOUR pitchers in the major leagues that pitched 11+ innings as a reliever and didn't give up a run in May. Shingo was one of them. He hasn't given up a run since his third appearance. K-Rod, who is everyone's measure, has only pitched TWO more innings than him in May.

For the bullpen you are smokin crack, but the same goes for the position players.

C
Olivio - C- Olivo has the SIXTH best VORP in a league FULL of superstar catchers. The only ones above him? Posada, Varitek, Lopez, Martinez, Rodiriguez. But yea, he's just average. He has been awesome with the staff and with the stick.

1B
Konerko - B- HE HAD THE SECOND BEST VORP IN THE LEAUGE. ARGH. ONLY ken Harvey has been better.

2B
Harris - C+ This is the one that REALLY gets me. FOr so long we've been begging for a guy that gets on base at the top of the lineup, and MAN DOES HE DO IT. HE's been an MVP. Awesome. HE HAS THE FOURTH BEST VORP in the league, and ONE of the players above him is ON HIS TEAM. Willie has been UNREAL.

Uribe - A+ still needs to get a little bit more selective at the plate or he is a good candidate to fall off quickly.

3B
Crede - F- The only one I agree with.

SS
Valentin - B Agree here too.

LF
Lee - D He hasn't been awesome so I don't want to argue too much here. His VORP is middle of the pack, but he hasn't had any power.

CF - Major hole for the Sox
Rowand - F He has a VORP better than Bernie Williams, Torii Hunter, Kenny Lofton, Mark Kotsay, Alex Escobar, Randy Winn....He's not THAT bad. certainly not an F.

Perez - C You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

RF
Mags - B+ Fourth best VORP. Wish he would be more clutch tho.
Gload - C - You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

DH - Thomas A+ Definately.

But dude, some of our younger players you are just hatin' on when they have been absolutely amazing. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I thought I would just show some mistakes with stats :smile:

Not very objective I'd say. Just wrong.

rahulsekhar
06-01-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Good Point, and IM GLAD you brought this up. Indeed, the Payroll HAS BEEN UPPED.........but NOT by Uncle Jerrys Blessing.
The payroll went up because of player salaries Kicking In, with certain Players getting "raises" this season. THIS IS WHY the payroll went up.

If anyone remembers, the SOX were Feverishly trying to GET RID OF PLAYERS that were DUE SALARY RAISES. Uncle Jerry basically tried to Waltz into a restaurant, Order Steak & Lobster Dinners, the Best bottles of wine, then at dessert, tried to slip out the Kitchen Door to avoid payment, only to find it Bolted Shut.

Salary raises that were negotiated by/and bound to Uncle Jerry. He tried to get slick and "get rid" of most of these guys in the offseason, but His hands became "tied" when noone wanted the players, thus forcing the Payroll to "increase", and the SOX and their Marketers/Season ticket salespeople were then quick to POint out to us late in Spring Training. Fact is, they tried to DUMP SALARY, but noone wanted our players, and THAT is why our payroll increased. Dont Be Fooled. Had the CHICAGO MEDIA been doing their Jobs, they wouldve pointed this out on a daily basis. Instead, they were more worried about Prior Watches/Talking Tricep Interviews/and covering up Murders in Wrigleyville.

However, Uncle Jerry sees were the real deal this year, and NOW finally wants to the SOX to up the payroll. Dummy. Baseball is like anyother business, You buy things BEFORE everyone else needs them, and now, the same pitcher that wouldve cost them a FreeAgents Salary is NOW going to cost them that AND THE LOSS OF KEY PROSPECTS. Nice Job Uncle Jerry, if you were working for Trump, he'd say "YOUR FIRED".


Outside of Konerko, I don't beleive anyone was looking to get dumped. IIRC, there was some discussion about reducing payroll, but only if at the same time we got some serious value for the guys we wre giving up. We could certainly ahve given away guys like Valentin, but didn't because we didn't get decent offers in return.

If the mandate was "cut payroll", it could and would have happened. Instead the mandate seems ot have been "lower payrol is nice, but only if it improves the team as well". JR wasn't forced into a higher payroll by any means.

CHISOXFAN13
06-01-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by skottyj242
How come nodody has looked at the coaching staff? Here's mine:

Ozzie: B, good manager but this team SHOULD win with anyone.

Don "Magic Juan" Cooper: A, the proof is Sho.

Santana: D, too many people thrown out at second, not sure if
it's fault.

Cora: D-, see above

Kusyner: Inc, does he really even do anything?

Baines: B, has kept Ozzie under control for the most part.

Walker: B-, shown signs of brilliance but the bats have gone cold too often at the worst times.

And last but not least the most important
person on the staff:

Man Soo Lee: A+++++++++++++++++, is there anyone better?

How can you give Cora a D-? He's done a phenomenal job.

fquaye149
06-01-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I am sorry, I forgot to take my hit of the Sox crack today. Try to look at things in object way and the homers jump on you.


here is the problem i have:

Harris - C+ If you are slugging in the .300 your OBP needs to be higher that .375.

Anyone with an OBP of .375 should be considered a solid leadoff hitter, especially when you look at his runs scored



Crede - F- worse then replacement production.

so crede has been absolutely worthless, because that's what F- implies - no redeeming qualities



Lee - D Barely over replacement level production so far. Heating up though, so not a F.

he is hitting well, not b or c+ level, but for you to say he's a d is ridiculous.


Garland - A
Loaiza - B+
Schoeneweis - B+

It is ridiculous that you claim that garland has been better than loaiza and schoenweis


Adkins - B-
Cotts - B-
Koch - D
Wunsch - D
Politte - F

maybe i'm just suffering from college grade inflation, but where i come from b- is a bad grade. . .you have to do POORLY to earn one. . .adkins and cotts have not performed poorly. . .meanwhile koch has at least been AVERAGE, hence a C, wunsch has pitched sparsely, more like an incomplete than a D, and politte, you have him graded lower than michael jackson.


it looks like you just looked down the stats line (especially with relievers) instead of actually watched the team play.

with relievers especially, this is egregiously unfair and unprofessional.

out

idseer
06-01-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
maybe i'm just suffering from college grade inflation, but where i come from b- is a bad grade. . .you have to do POORLY to earn one. . .

huh? i never hear B- stood for poor.

C has always been average in my book so anything above a C is above average.

geez, if B- is poor what could D possibly mean in your school?

JRIG
06-01-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by idseer
uribe is hitting .335 it's true and has probably been an emotional lift for the team, but he's only tied for 22 in runs, tied for 11th in sb's, he has 7 hr's but only 19 rbi's, doesn't really have a position (not his fault), tied for 63rd in walks, etc. while he's been a spectacular surprise i don't really think he's an A.
but i can't argue too much about it. i can see why most see him that way.

He's only low in those areas because he hasn't played every day. With a guy like him there's no use looking at counting stat (HR/RBI/R) because he's not going to accumulate as many not playing as often. His percentages (OBP/SLG) are tremendous and much better than anyone could have rationally expected.

buehrle has been better than i thought he'd be too. but he's still given up 80 hits in 70 innings and has had a LOT of support in that 5 - 1 record. his k/bb ratio is good but there are some way better.

Buehrle has always given up a lot of hits. His K/BB ratio isn't just good, it's great. His 3.56 Ks to BB is 4th in the AL, behind only Radke, Schilling and Martinez.

as for thomas ... perhaps no DH deserves an A at this point. why should he get higher than a B? he's 27th in rbi's, 9th in hr's, 10th in runs, and 32nd in avg. granted he's 4th in ops but mainly becase he leads the league in bb's. personally i am not as impressed by ops as much as some are. i understand the value of the stat but i also don't think it outwieghs everything else.
frankly i'm pretty happy he's a B right now. he's doing better than i expected he would.

Walks are extremely important. And OPS combines the two things you want a hitter to do most -- get on base and hit for power. Frank has been an on-base machine this year and he also has 10 doubles and 10 HR. Heck I think 10th in runs scored is pretty damn impressive. His BA is just below .300. Maybe you would like him to have a few more RBI, but hitting fourth instead of third is allowing Mags to clean the bases ahead of him sometimes. Again, I'm just not sure how much more you can ask him to do.

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Since you've talked in the language of replacement players, I figured that I would have to get your facts straight. First a quick statment about the bullpen.

Our bullpen is THIRD in the league in ERA. Top 5 in staying away from blown saves? You can give them a B- if you want, but that's a weird grading scale. And giving Koch a D obviously shows that you have some kind of personal problem with him. He has an ERA lower than Garland, who you give an A. He's only blown one save, which any team would KILL for. He has a LOWER WHIP than ANYONE in our rotation, save for Elo. He has one of the highest K/9 rates in the MLB. His opponent batting average is .213. Awesome. You need to get off your high horse about Koch. He's been one of the best closers in the league whether you want to believe it or not.

And the fact that Shingo doesn't get an 'A' AMAZES me. There were FOUR pitchers in the major leagues that pitched 11+ innings as a reliever and didn't give up a run in May. Shingo was one of them. He hasn't given up a run since his third appearance. K-Rod, who is everyone's measure, has only pitched TWO more innings than him in May.

For the bullpen you are smokin crack, but the same goes for the position players.

C
Olivio - C- Olivo has the SIXTH best VORP in a league FULL of superstar catchers. The only ones above him? Posada, Varitek, Lopez, Martinez, Rodiriguez. But yea, he's just average. He has been awesome with the staff and with the stick.

1B
Konerko - B- HE HAD THE SECOND BEST VORP IN THE LEAUGE. ARGH. ONLY ken Harvey has been better.

2B
Harris - C+ This is the one that REALLY gets me. FOr so long we've been begging for a guy that gets on base at the top of the lineup, and MAN DOES HE DO IT. HE's been an MVP. Awesome. HE HAS THE FOURTH BEST VORP in the league, and ONE of the players above him is ON HIS TEAM. Willie has been UNREAL.

Uribe - A+ still needs to get a little bit more selective at the plate or he is a good candidate to fall off quickly.

3B
Crede - F- The only one I agree with.

SS
Valentin - B Agree here too.

LF
Lee - D He hasn't been awesome so I don't want to argue too much here. His VORP is middle of the pack, but he hasn't had any power.

CF - Major hole for the Sox
Rowand - F He has a VORP better than Bernie Williams, Torii Hunter, Kenny Lofton, Mark Kotsay, Alex Escobar, Randy Winn....He's not THAT bad. certainly not an F.

Perez - C You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

RF
Mags - B+ Fourth best VORP. Wish he would be more clutch tho.
Gload - C - You expect replacement level production form a replacement.

DH - Thomas A+ Definately.

But dude, some of our younger players you are just hatin' on when they have been absolutely amazing. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I thought I would just show some mistakes with stats :smile:

Not very objective I'd say. Just wrong.

Well I didn't narrow myself just to the AL, but included the NL also. Limiting yourself to just the AL is a wrong approach to the question.

So Konerko isn't the second best in the majors, but 6th and grouped together with 6 others with the same amount of production. Thus the top 5 are A, the next 6 are B. I gave Konerko a - because he still has troubles hitting righties. That would give us 11 first baseman out of 30 in the top two grades. If Konerko got an A that means 11 should. I'm not grade inflating here.

Olivio tied for 11th. Now he is hurt here because of playing time given to Alomar there. His OBP is .321, which isn't good. Also while not entirely his fault the fact teams run very easily on the Sox reflects bad on the staff, Sandy and himself.

Harris, he isn't an A player with that slugging. I thought about giving him a B, but the OBP is too low with that slg. He needs to get on base a lot more to be the MVP. While .364 is a good OBP, I would want .375 plus form my leadoff man. I was hard here, but I think you are being too generous.

Rowand - Defense came into play here not just what Rowand did with the bat. I fall into Randar camp on Rowand capabilities in the field. Comparisons to Lofton, Hunter and Williams aren't the most valid for various reasons.

For the pen, ERA isn't the end all be all for them. ERA lacks to look at inherit runners allowed to score.

I don't think Shingo has pitch enought innings to get an A. I would want to see 25+ not 18. If he had the same amount of production over 25 innings, I would have given him an A.

As for Koch, his ERA is 4.16 (Garland is 3.93) RAA is 4.66, park adjusted 4.70 and his ARP is .4 Plus other then Wunch, no White Sox pitcher has faced the weaker hitters.

idseer
06-01-2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
He's only low in those areas because he hasn't played every day. With a guy like him there's no use looking at counting stat (HR/RBI/R) because he's not going to accumulate as many not playing as often. His percentages (OBP/SLG) are tremendous and much better than anyone could have rationally expected.

Buehrle has always given up a lot of hits. His K/BB ratio isn't just good, it's great. His 3.56 Ks to BB is 4th in the AL, behind only Radke, Schilling and Martinez.

Walks are extremely important. And OPS combines the two things you want a hitter to do most -- get on base and hit for power. Frank has been an on-base machine this year and he also has 10 doubles and 10 HR. Heck I think 10th in runs scored is pretty damn impressive. His BA is just below .300. Maybe you would like him to have a few more RBI, but hitting fourth instead of third is allowing Mags to clean the bases ahead of him sometimes. Again, I'm just not sure how much more you can ask him to do.

well i can't argue too long and hard with you. our judgement is a little different but not far off.

let me just say about frank ... i don't think i could ask for any more from him. but that doesn't make him an A to me. you say he bats behind magglio so magglio clears the bases for him but i don't buy that. all (or most) number 4 hitters have their best team's hitter batting 3rd. i don't know where to find figures on what happens when he's got men on base but i'd be surprised if he performed any better (and probably worse) than a B.

like i said before tho .... B is very very good imo. :smile:

idseer
06-01-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Well I didn't narrow myself just to the AL, but included the NL also. Limiting yourself to just the AL is a wrong approach to the question.



can i just throw this in? the difference this year between the al and nl seems to be huge! i don't think you should compare players from both leagues using the same stat base.

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
here is the problem i have:

Harris - C+ If you are slugging in the .300 your OBP needs to be higher that .375.

Anyone with an OBP of .375 should be considered a solid leadoff hitter, especially when you look at his runs scored

Crede - F- worse then replacement production.

so crede has been absolutely worthless, because that's what F- implies - no redeeming qualities

Lee - D Barely over replacement level production so far. Heating up though, so not a F.

he is hitting well, not b or c+ level, but for you to say he's a d is ridiculous.


Garland - A
Loaiza - B+
Schoeneweis - B+

It is ridiculous that you claim that garland has been better than loaiza and schoenweis


Adkins - B-
Cotts - B-
Koch - D
Wunsch - D
Politte - F

maybe i'm just suffering from college grade inflation, but where i come from b- is a bad grade. . .you have to do POORLY to earn one. . .adkins and cotts have not performed poorly. . .meanwhile koch has at least been AVERAGE, hence a C, wunsch has pitched sparsely, more like an incomplete than a D, and politte, you have him graded lower than michael jackson.


it looks like you just looked down the stats line (especially with relievers) instead of actually watched the team play.

with relievers especially, this is egregiously unfair and unprofessional.

out

A - Outstanding
B- Above Average
C- Average
D- Appoarching replacement level
F - Replacement Level. A player has vaule just you could get the same amount of vaule from your AAA team.

Harris OBP is .368, thus not higher then .375

With Garland vs E Lo and Shoe it was about RA and homers. Garland has down better. All three are on the line between B and A, but I think Garland has done a better job. E Lo is finally coming around so with a few more starts, he should surpass Garland.

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by idseer
can i just throw this in? the difference this year between the al and nl seems to be huge! i don't think you should compare players from both leagues using the same stat base.

You could argue that, but does that mean the NL have better players then the AL does? I think we should treat position players the same and discount NL pitchers due to the pitcher batting instead of the DH.

ChiSox7
06-01-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Well I didn't narrow myself just to the AL, but included the NL also. Limiting yourself to just the AL is a wrong approach to the question.

So Konerko isn't the second best in the majors, but 6th and grouped together with 6 others with the same amount of production. Thus the top 5 are A, the next 6 are B. I gave Konerko a - because he still has troubles hitting righties. That would give us 11 first baseman out of 30 in the top two grades. If Konerko got an A that means 11 should. I'm not grade inflating here.

Olivio tied for 11th. Now he is hurt here because of playing time given to Alomar there. His OBP is .321, which isn't good. Also while not entirely his fault the fact teams run very easily on the Sox reflects bad on the staff, Sandy and himself.

Harris, he isn't an A player with that slugging. I thought about giving him a B, but the OBP is too low with that slg. He needs to get on base a lot more to be the MVP. While .364 is a good OBP, I would want .375 plus form my leadoff man. I was hard here, but I think you are being too generous.

Rowand - Defense came into play here not just what Rowand did with the bat. I fall into Randar camp on Rowand capabilities in the field. Comparisons to Lofton, Hunter and Williams aren't the most valid for various reasons.

For the pen, ERA isn't the end all be all for them. ERA lacks to look at inherit runners allowed to score.

I don't think Shingo has pitch enought innings to get an A. I would want to see 25+ not 18. If he had the same amount of production over 25 innings, I would have given him an A.

As for Koch, his ERA is 4.16 (Garland is 3.93) RAA is 4.66, park adjusted 4.70 and his ARP is .4 Plus other then Wunch, no White Sox pitcher has faced the weaker hitters.

Well that's a well thought out, pleasant response. But a few objections. When statisticians talk about VORP and the like, they usually limit it to the leagues. The game and pitchers are SO different in each league, that you really can't compare between the two, so it is pertinent that most people just go by each league.

As for Willie, we don't need any more power in the lineup. He could hit for some HR and the like I think if he wanted to, but that would hurt his game. Ozzie asks him to slash the ball, so specifically related to what he needs to do, I think he has been amazing. His obp at .371 is pretty awesome. 33rd in the league, but most of the people above him are the power hitters that get walked alot like Frank. Among leadoff men he is THIRD only behind Damon and Ichiro. THat is pretty awesome. I don't want him to slug more actually because I think that would take away from what he is doing. I really think he has been part of the glue for this team.

We can wait on Shingo, but in 10 more innings I think you will see similar numbers.

Koch has been really solid with his peripherals. He can't help who he pitches too in the ninth inning. He has been much better than advertised. I don't think he should be an 'A', but Definately a 'B' or above. He has gotten the job done plain and simple, with much better numbers than anyone would expect. That is a solid whip.

We both have our points. The truth is probably somewhere in between. I still think I'm right though :smile:

JRIG
06-01-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by idseer
well i can't argue too long and hard with you. our judgement is a little different but not far off.

let me just say about frank ... i don't think i could ask for any more from him. but that doesn't make him an A to me. you say he bats behind magglio so magglio clears the bases for him but i don't buy that. all (or most) number 4 hitters have their best team's hitter batting 3rd. i don't know where to find figures on what happens when he's got men on base but i'd be surprised if he performed any better (and probably worse) than a B.

like i said before tho .... B is very very good imo. :smile:

I know, we're arguing pretty fine points, but that's what we do aroundhere, right? :D:

B to me means better than average but still needs improvement. Frank has been far better than average, he's been elite so far this year. And if the only major point we can get on him for is a slightly low RBI total, than I think he deseves an A.

maurice
06-01-2004, 01:28 PM
I don't think folks here are practicing grade inflation. A first-place team deserves good grades. Here are my grades, relative to my fairly optimistic pre-season expectations (A - greatly exceeded, B - exceeded, C- met, D - didn't quite meet, F - way below):

Olivo - B
Konerko - C
Harris - A
Uribe - A
Crede - F
Valentin - C
Lee - C
Rowand - C
Ordonez - C
Thomas - B

Buehrle - B
Loaiza - B
Garland - B
Schoeneweis - A
Wright, etc. - D

Marte - D
Wunsch - I
Koch - D
Politte - F
Jackson - C
Takatsu - A
Adkins - A

In sum, the position players are about where I expected them to be, except that Harris and Uribe have been outstanding. The starters have been better than expected, particularly Show. The grades for the pen are all over the map.

Whitesox029
06-01-2004, 01:36 PM
Since I don't feel like grading everyone I'll just grade Ozzie:

A

idseer
06-01-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
You could argue that, but does that mean the NL have better players then the AL does? I think we should treat position players the same and discount NL pitchers due to the pitcher batting instead of the DH.

you tell me.

in era the top 9 spaces belong to nl players.

in hr's 9 of the top ten are nl.

in rbi's 12 of the top 13 are nl.

pitching looks better because of the lack of dh, but how do you explain the hr's and rbi's?

skottyj242
06-01-2004, 02:24 PM
Grade the coaching staff.

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by idseer
you tell me.

in era the top 9 spaces belong to nl players.

in hr's 9 of the top ten are nl.

in rbi's 12 of the top 13 are nl.

pitching looks better because of the lack of dh, but how do you explain the hr's and rbi's?

Better hitters is the simplist answer. Smaller parks and Coors Field might effect it too, More AL or NL parks have Quetac.

fquaye149
06-01-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by idseer
huh? i never hear B- stood for poor.

C has always been average in my book so anything above a C is above average.

geez, if B- is poor what could D possibly mean in your school?


let's look at it this way

B- means you are getting it done no more than 80% of the time or at 80% the level you should be

is that the case with cotts and adkins?

voodoochile
06-01-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I don't think folks here are practicing grade inflation. A first-place team deserves good grades. Here are my grades, relative to my fairly optimistic pre-season expectations (A - greatly exceeded, B - exceeded, C- met, D - didn't quite meet, F - way below)

I think this is the fairest way to evaluate people. Evalutating them based on league averages is kind of silly, IMO, becaue the Sox can only play the players they have and that assumes they have access to those other "better/worse" players - which they don't.

Also, evaluating every player on the same scale seems ludicrous. I mean why would you expect your leadoff hitter to have the same slg% as your cleanup hitter? Why would you be offended if the 9th spot hitter had an OBP slightly below league average? Again, that is evaluating a player compared to the All-Stars who man their given position. Not every player can be an all-star.

The "how they performed based on my expectations" seems quite fair and takes into account where they batted in the lineup, how that helped or hurt the team and whether they exceeded the fans expectations.

Since no team is going to have 9 all-stars hitting, 5 all-star starters and even more all-stars in the pen and on the bench, it means nothing to me to see a player evaluated against their replacement on another team.

I agree that many players have far exceeded my and other Sox fans expectations this year, starting with guys like Harris and Uribe and continuing with guys like Frank, Garland, Schoenweiss, Takatsu and Koch.

The Sox have many players who are taking their role on the team seriously and doing whatever it takes to fulfill that role. That in the long run counts too and probably counts more as it will make a huge difference as the season progresses.

Two side notes:

Frank may not have scored many runs, but whose fault really is that? At least some of the blame has to lie with Lee who has only started turning around his hitting style in the last few weeks and the result has been fantastic both for the team and for Frank's numbers.

It isn't hard to tell who the older posters on the board are. Yes, grade inflation is rampant these days. It is to the point where it is affecting Ivy League schools. I IRC, 75% of the people attending Yale had a B+ or better GPA a few years ago when they started looking at it. Now either testing has gotten easier, grading has gotten easier or subject matter has gotten easier. I suppose it is possible on a strict grade scale to have a whole college of over achievers, but it still seems strange. Curves have wrecked the academic world, IMO. Of course I suppose that is odd since I appear to be advocating a curved scale for my rating of Sox players... Guess I'll have to work on that... :D:

BigEdWalsh
06-01-2004, 05:49 PM
A: Uribe, Harris,
A- : Ozzie, Schoeneweis, Takatsu
B+: Thomas, Buehrle, Loaiza
B: Ordonez, Olivo, Konerko
B-: Lee, Alomar, Gload, Garland, Koch, Adkins
C+: Perez, Cotts, Marte
C: Valentin, Rowand, Jackson
C-: Dransfeldt
D+: Crede
D: Politte
D-: Rauch
F: Diaz
F-: Wright
Incomplete: Wunsch, Burke, Baines
:comiskey "Mr. Crede, I'd like to see you after class."

Dadawg_77
06-01-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I think this is the fairest way to evaluate people. Evalutating them based on league averages is kind of silly, IMO, becaue the Sox can only play the players they have and that assumes they have access to those other "better/worse" players - which they don't.


If I were grading on that scale; Thomas, Mags, Rowand, Koch get C's, Marte, Burhele, E Lo gets a Ds. Harris and Uribe get A. Lee gets an F, everyone else gets C or Bs. Doesn't really put in perspective how good a player is.

voodoochile
06-01-2004, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If I were grading on that scale; Thomas, Mags, Rowand, Koch get C's, Marte, Burhele, E Lo gets a Ds. Harris and Uribe get A. Lee gets an F, everyone else gets C or Bs. Doesn't really put in perspective how good a player is.

Okay, and I guess it does make it more subjective.

I don't think mid-season grades are to determine how good a player is. I think it is more: what did we expect and what did we get?

Maybe that system is too simplistic. What did we expect and how did they perform would be a better way of doing it.

I agree, it shouldn't all be about expectations, but how much they did to help the team get where it is. If a guy was expected to do well and he sucked and the team sucked too, it would lead to a lower grade.

If not much was expected from a player and they did great and the team did great too and they were a major reason why (Uribe, Harris) then they deserve better grades.

Strictly grading on how good a guy is because of how good other people are at their position just doesn't tell the story of how much they contribute to this team. Sure, there are guys out there better than the guys we got, but in their respective roles on this team, the players are doing well and it shows in the way the Sox are performing...

fquaye149
06-01-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If I were grading on that scale; Thomas, Mags, Rowand, Koch get C's, Marte, Burhele, E Lo gets a Ds. Harris and Uribe get A. Lee gets an F, everyone else gets C or Bs. Doesn't really put in perspective how good a player is.

so you're saying if you were a teacher and you expected a student to perform excellently and he met your expectations, you would give him a c?


that's not how this evaluation system was proposed.


it was to look at players and say based on how well they have done and CONSIDERING what was initially expected of them what grade they deserve.

for instance:

If you have two students who have earned a B- in your class and one can easily make A's without trying and the other had to work his butt off to get his B- which one do you bump up to a solid B and which do you bump down to a C+?

With Willie, for example not only has he performed what would be considered B work at the leadoff spot for almost any ballplayer, but he has also exceeded expectations greatly, therefore, if I were a teacher I would give him a B+

With Carlos, he has probably performed at least B/B- work but since we are paying him $$$ compared to the rest of the team and considering his HR #'s from last year, it would be justified to bump him down to a C/C+


at any rate, that's how I consider the midseason grades to work

OurBitchinMinny
06-01-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
4 homers and 24 rbis. I think all his homers were in April too. It sure seems like it. And talk about a weak 16 game hitting streak as they go. It's the usual with him--several fortnights in a row without doing anything to help the team.

I agree lee has not been great, but a D? Rowand deserves an F- is lee gets a D. You cant give those two the same grade

RKMeibalane
06-01-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Lee gets an F

I don't know why, but this struck me as extremely funny.