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Koch Master
05-30-2004, 07:50 PM
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

mmmmmbeeer
05-30-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

Yeah, I can't believe he gave up Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe or Gary glover for Scott Schoeneweiss. He's constantly overpaying.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

Infact, I don't think Scott Dunn is even in baseball. Maybe the Independent League? Couldn't we have gotten a solid reliever that could have filled a void in the bullpen last year? It is utter BS.

ChiSox7
05-30-2004, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

Willie Harris or D'Angelo Jimenez???? Hmmmm. That's a TOUGH one. hahaha. Why don't you check out Willie's OBP buddy. It's pretty good on a first place team. THis thread blows. He was just glad to get rid of Jimenez poor work ethic, and I'm glad he did.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by mmmmmbeeer
Yeah, I can't believe he gave up Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe or Gary glover for Scott Schoeneweiss. He's constantly overpaying.

Kinda like giving up soon to be all-star Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie? :angry:

IMO, we will not win anything as long as Kenny Williams is calling the shots and depleting our team of talent. After we won the division in 2000, I thought we would be returning to the playoffs again. Obviously we haven't and I fault Kenny Williams. Some of you will fault Jerry Manuel, but I blame KW for not firing that loser earlier.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Kinda like giving up soon to be all-star Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie? :angry:

IMO, we will not win anything as long as Kenny Williams is calling the shots and depleting our team of talent. After we won the division in 2000, I thought we would be returning to the playoffs again. Obviously we haven't and I fault Kenny Williams. Some of you will fault Jerry Manuel, but I blame KW for not firing that loser earlier.

Oh good lord, this has to be the single dumbest thread I can remember in a long time.

Whine whine whine.

Sox in First! KW is a major reason why (Harris, Uribe, Valentin (he picked up the option), Schoenweiss, Loaiza, etc. etc.)

KW is fine, but this thread on the other hand, well...

:threadsucks

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 08:02 PM
I miss D'Angelo Jimenez. We still have a huge hole in our lineup for a second guy who will run us out of ballgames with mistakes on the basepaths.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Willie Harris or D'Angelo Jimenez???? Hmmmm. That's a TOUGH one. hahaha. Why don't you check out Willie's OBP buddy. It's pretty good on a first place team. THis thread blows. He was just glad to get rid of Jimenez poor work ethic, and I'm glad he did.

You are missing the point. We didn't get enough in the trade, and this was just another trade in a long line of bad moves by KW. We should have gotten a reliever to help us out immediately or prospects for the valuable D'Angelo Jimenez.

chisoxfan79
05-30-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Infact, I don't think Scott Dunn is even in baseball. Maybe the Independent League? Couldn't we have gotten a solid reliever that could have filled a void in the bullpen last year? It is utter BS.

Scott Dunn was a part of the trade for SHOW

batmanZoSo
05-30-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

You took 45 seconds of my life and I want it back.

nitetrain8601
05-30-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Kinda like giving up soon to be all-star Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie? :angry:

IMO, we will not win anything as long as Kenny Williams is calling the shots and depleting our team of talent. After we won the division in 2000, I thought we would be returning to the playoffs again. Obviously we haven't and I fault Kenny Williams. Some of you will fault Jerry Manuel, but I blame KW for not firing that loser earlier.

Well in 2001 Frank and Wells both got injured. It was just an overall bad year. I don't fault that on either Manuel or KW. 2002 we got off to a bad start. Then as soon as we hit first place we went downhill. Then we made a run late, but nothing great and that was both KW's and JM's fault. 2003 was all Manuel. We definately had the talent. Point in case, don't blame KW for everything. He's had his fair shares of hits and misses like any other GM would have. I think some of you guys come on this board just to badmouth anything that has to do with the Sox.

Are you Cubs fans?

mmmmmbeeer
05-30-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Kinda like giving up soon to be all-star Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie? :angry:

IMO, we will not win anything as long as Kenny Williams is calling the shots and depleting our team of talent. After we won the division in 2000, I thought we would be returning to the playoffs again. Obviously we haven't and I fault Kenny Williams. Some of you will fault Jerry Manuel, but I blame KW for not firing that loser earlier.

From 2001-2003 KW and JM were both with the team and the Sox were underachieving.

2004 KW and OG are both with the team and the Sox are playing to their potential and possibly overachieving.

You tell me what changed.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:06 PM
I don't care how Willie Harris is playing right now. I care about his CLUTCH hits. This goes back to Hawk's theory.......
:hawk
"Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit it."

Now, do you remember that huge game-winning hit Jimenez had off of Remlinger to beat the Cubs at the cell? The bottom line is, Jimenez was there when we needed him, and he is there for the Reds too.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by CanOfCorn
I miss D'Angelo Jimenez. We still have a huge hole in our lineup for a second guy who will run us out of ballgames with mistakes on the basepaths.

*****! Well Said...

POTW (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=2539)

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
I don't care how Willie Harris is playing right now. I care about his CLUTCH hits. This goes back to Hawk's theory.......
:hawk
"Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit it."

Now, do you remember that huge game-winning hit Jimenez had off of Remlinger to beat the Cubs at the cell?

One freaking hit? What about the 4 he had today leading off for the Sox?

I cannot believe we are still arguing over D'Angelo "dead froim the neck up" Jimenez...

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by chisoxfan79
Scott Dunn was a part of the trade for SHOW

No, you are wrong.

kittle42
05-30-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Now, do you remember that huge game-winning hit Jimenez had off of Remlinger to beat the Cubs at the cell? The bottom line is, Jimenez was there when we needed him, and he is there for the Reds too.

Worst...argument...ever.

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 08:14 PM
I think anybody who has ever thought, "Man, I miss D'Angelo Jimenez" needs to pick up a second hobby.

chisoxfan79
05-30-2004, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
No, you are wrong.

Are you sure? I thought it was Glover,Dunn,and bITTNER

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by chisoxfan79
Are you sure? I thought it was Glover,Dunn,and bITTNER

You are right. For the record, we also acquired Doug Nickle in that trade.

Huisj
05-30-2004, 08:19 PM
another steal was marte for guerrier.

basically, KW is a risk taker. Sometimes his trades turn out great, sometimes they turn out bad, sometimes a wash. that happens when you take risks.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:19 PM
Ron Schueler's legacy
- Gives us a 95-win season and the best record in the American League.
- Turns over the best minor league system in the MLB to his predecessor

Kenny Williams' legacy
- Acquires Clayton
- trades for David Wells
- practically mortgages the farm by trading for Ritchie
- Trades Scott Eyre
- Trades Jimenez
- Trades Bradford (who has anchored the A's pen for 2 division titles)
- Traded are #1 closer prospect for a .260 hitter
- pays Valentin 5 mil a year to strike out 3 or 4 times a game
- slaps Frank Thomas in the face
- doesn't fire Manuel quick enough
- Fails to resign Tom Gordon. Gordon now has a 1.57 ERA. (The key to winning is to have a solid and reliable bullpen, IMO)
- Kieth Foulke, after having a terrific 2nd half in 2002 was traded away. Yes, Koch is pitching much better, but have you seen Foulke's stats? 1.01ERA (The best in the MLB for a closer) Man, do I wish we still had him.

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:20 PM
Hey, as long as we are on the topic of KW trades, the great Joe Valentine got the start today for those first place Reds. Final line: 1 IP, 2 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 5 BB, 0 K. Damn, another one got away...

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 08:22 PM
I miss Joe Valentine, mainly because when the Farm Report was shown on the scoreboard, I could always make the joke that Jose Valentin was his non-union Mexican equivalent.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Ron Sculer's legacy
- Gives us a 95-win season and the best record in the American League.
- Turns over the bese minor league system in the MLB to his predecessor

Kenny Williams' legacy
- Aquirres Clayton
- trades for David Wells
- practically morgages the farm by trading for Ritchie
- Trades Scott Eyre
- Trades Jimenez
- Trades Bradford (who has anchored the A's pen for 2 division titles)
- Traded are #1 closer prospect for a .260 hitter
- pays Valentin 5 mil a year to strike out 3 or 4 times a game
- slaps Frank Thomas in the face
- doesn't fire Manuel quick enough


Yes, we can see just how amazing that minor league system was because of all the stars it has produced. Start naming them, come on now, how many all-stars from that minor league system.

Wells, Fogg and Lowe for Ritchie didn't help the Sox, but it didn't kill them either. Wells is the only solid one in the bunch and he would be the 5th starter no better on the Sox team.

I'll take Uribe and Harris over Jimenez any day of the week

Valentin is a stud Offensive SS.

#1 closer prospect? Is that like saying failed starter?

I agree about Manuel and I don't trust the way he handled Frank, but what's done is done and Frank seems happy. He did hire Ozzie who has the team in first at Memorial Day. In addition, you left off all of the good things he has done...

Signs Loaiza
Acquires Schoeneweiss
Acquires Uribe (for junk)
Acquires Harris (for junk)
Gets Olivo, a rising star at C in MLB for Bradford
Gets Koch and Cotts for Foulke
Signed Takatsu
Acquired Marte for junk.

you haven't changed my mind...

:threadsucks

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yes, we can see just how amazing that minor league system was because of all the stars it has produced. Start naming them, come on now, how many all-stars from that minor league system.

Wells, Fogg and Lowe for Ritchie didn't help the Sox, but it didn't kill them either. Wells is the only solid one in the bunch and he would be the 5th starter no better on the Sox team.

I'll take Uribe and Harris over Jimenez any day of the week

Valentin is a stud Offensive SS.

#1 closer prospect? Is that like saying failed starter?

I agree about Manuel and I don't trust the way he handled Frank, but what's done is done and Frank seems happy. He did hire Ozzie who has the team in first at Memorial Day. In addition, you left off all of the good things he has done...

Signs Loaiza
Acquires Schoeneweiss
Acquires Uribe (for junk)
Acquires Harris (for junk)
Gets Olivo, a rising star at C in MLB for Bradford
Gets Koch and Cotts for Foulke
Signed Takatsu
Acquired Marte for junk.

you haven't changed my mind...

:threadsucks

One word....

Kieth Foulke

.......he was in our minor league system and developed under us.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
One word....

Kieth Foulke

.......he was in our minor league system and developed under us.

That's two words... :D:

In addition, he was acquired in the WFT from SF and made the team almost immediately. Hardly our prospect, but who's counting.

Okay, even if we count that, you got one and he was on the team, not in the minors, so you can't exactly claim that he was part of decimating the best ML system in baseball. Your argument is moot...

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Ron Schueler's legacy
- Gives us a 95-win season and the best record in the American League.
- Turns over the bese minor league system in the MLB to his predecessor

Kenny Williams' legacy
- Acquires Clayton
- trades for David Wells
- practically mortgages the farm by trading for Ritchie
- Trades Scott Eyre
- Trades Jimenez
- Trades Bradford (who has anchored the A's pen for 2 division titles)
- Traded are #1 closer prospect for a .260 hitter
- pays Valentin 5 mil a year to strike out 3 or 4 times a game
- slaps Frank Thomas in the face
- doesn't fire Manuel quick enough
- Kieth Foulke, after having a terrific 2nd half in 2002 was traded away. Yes, Koch is pitching much better, but have you seen Foulke's stats? 1.01ERA (The best in the MLB for a closer) Man, do I wish we still had him.

KW's REAL Legacy (the part you forgot)
-Acquired Marte for Gurrier
-Acquired Shingo
-Got Uribe for Miles
-Signed Loaiza for peanuts
-Schoeneweis for Glover
-Olivo (aka Franchise Catcher) for Bradford who wouldntve been able to help us a ton anyways
-Yes he did trade Foulke, but we wouldnt have had him this year anyways. That trade hurt us last year, will help us this year. A third of our pen was gotten in that trade (Koch and Cotts)
-Acquired Harris and made him a starter
-Got Colon for Peanuts
-Got Everett for Peanuts
-Got Alomar for Peanuts

The Premise of this thread is a freaking joke. KW has singlehandedly set this team up this year that has a chance of winning the world Series.

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
One word....

Kieth Foulke

.......he was in our minor league system and developed under us.

That trade hurt us last year but it will help us this year a lot more than it hurt us last year.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
KW's REAL Legacy (the part you forgot)
-Acquired Marte for Gurrier
-Acquired Shingo
-Got Uribe for Miles
-Signed Loaiza for peanuts
-Schoeneweis for Glover
-Olivo (aka Franchise Catcher) for Bradford who wouldntve been able to help us a ton anyways
-Yes he did trade Foulke, but we wouldnt have had him this year anyways. That trade hurt us last year, will help us this year. A third of our pen was gotten in that trade (Koch and Cotts)
-Acquired Harris and made him a starter
-Got Colon for Peanuts
-Got Everett for Peanuts
-Got Alomar for Peanuts

The Premise of this thread is a freaking joke. KW has singlehandedly set this team up this year that has a chance of winning the world Series.

The freaking joke is you saying Bradford wouldn't have helped us. The Angels have demonstrated that you need a strong and reliable pen to win the world series. Just imagine if we could plug Bradford in there right now? We could still have Jaime Burke and Alomar catching.

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Ron Schueler's legacy
- Gives us a 95-win season and the best record in the American League.
- Turns over the bese minor league system in the MLB to his predecessor

Kenny Williams' legacy
- Acquires Clayton
- trades for David Wells
- practically mortgages the farm by trading for Ritchie
- Trades Scott Eyre
- Trades Jimenez
- Trades Bradford (who has anchored the A's pen for 2 division titles)
- Traded are #1 closer prospect for a .260 hitter
- pays Valentin 5 mil a year to strike out 3 or 4 times a game
- slaps Frank Thomas in the face
- doesn't fire Manuel quick enough

O god, you're too much. Since KW took over that best minor league system, exactly how many of those great prospects that were stockpiled under Schuler's regime panned out? Rauch? Crede? Ginter? Barcelo? Borchard? Fogg? Wright? West? Biddle? Glover? Liefer? Malone? Stumm? Rowand? Ramirez? Hmmm, what happened to all that top talent? They were busts! We didn't have the top system. Garland, Wells, and Buehrle are the only 3 who have had slight success that I can think of. Maybe all those claiming our system as the best (or one of the best) were wrong.

It seems that you left off some thing from KW's legacy.
- Signed Esteban Loaiza (won 20 games last year)
- Traded for Scott Schoeneweis (on pace for over 15 wins)
- Traded for Damaso Marte
- Traded for Juan Uribe
- Traded for Willie Harris
- Signed Kenny Lofton and Sandy Alomar Jr. (later used them to acquire good pitching prospects)
- Traded virtually nothing to acquire Bartolo Colon
- Traded for Miguel Olivo (one of the best young catchers in the game)
- Signed Shingo Takatsu
- Acquired Neal Cotts via trade
- Signed Tom Gordon
- Traded for Carl Everett
- Traded for Robbie Alomar
- Traded for Scott Sullivan

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
O god, you're too much. Since KW took over that best minor league system, exactly how many of those great prospects that were stockpiled under Schuler's regime panned out? Rauch? Crede? Ginter? Barcelo? Borchard? Fogg? Wright? West? Biddle? Glover? Liefer? Malone? Stumm? Rowand? Ramirez? Hmmm, what happened to all that top talent? They were busts! We didn't have the top system. Garland, Wells, and Buehrle are the only 3 who have had slight success that I can think of. Maybe all those claiming our system as the best (or one of the best) were wrong.

It seems that you left off some thing from KW's legacy.

- Traded for Scott Sullivan

Now, who was more effective last year........Sullivan or Bradford?

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We could still have Jaime Burke and Alomar catching.

*shutters at the thought* Ok, so we could have Alomar and Burke catching. Now...what about the other 130 games a year?

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
The freaking joke is you saying Bradford wouldn't have helped us. The Angels have demonstrated that you need a strong and reliable pen to win the world series. Just imagine if we could plug Bradford in there right now? We could still have Jaime Burke and Alomar catching.

Hmmmmm Franchise catcher or one piece of a bullpen??

Burke and Alomar vs Alomar and Olivo. Dont bother discussing because there's no discussion. This might be Alomar's last year in the majors and Burke is not a ML catcher.

Bradford has been pitching just about as good as Adkins this year.

And in regards to that list I posted I forgot about signing Flash Gordon as an FA last year.

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Now, who was more effective last year........Sullivan or Bradford?

Bradford. My turn, who was more effective last year, Damaso Marte or Matt Guerrier?

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
*shutters at the thought* Ok, so we could have Alomar and Burke catching. Now...what about the other 130 games a year?

Well since we our 5th starter is in Pittsburgh, we could continue with a 4 man rotation. Alomar would catch Buehrle and Schoeneweis, while Burke would catch Garland and Loaiza.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:44 PM
While I mentioned KW not getting enough in return for Jimenez, how could I possibly have forgotten Ray Durham. He was my favorite player during the 90's besides Frank Thomas and Blackjack. The guy was an all-star, and it's a shame all we could get for him was Adkins. I know for a fact, many people were upset about that trade.

raul12
05-30-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Well since we our 5th starter is in Pittsburgh, we could continue with a 4 man rotation. Alomar would catch Buehrle and Schoeneweis, while Burke would catch Garland and Loaiza.

I want 5 minutes of my life back.

:threadsucks

kermittheefrog
05-30-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

Ya know I almost sort of agree with you but why bring this up when we're in first place and everything is going well? Things don't even look like they are close to collapsing. What pisses me off the most is because of your stupidity people are making posts in defense of KW. You are building up good sentiment for a bad GM by being an idiot. Good job.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
While I mentioned KW not getting enough in return for Jimenez, how could I possibly have forgotten Ray Durham. He was my favorite player during the 90's besides Frank Thomas and Blackjack. The guy was an all-star, and it's a shame all we could get for him was Adkins. I know for a fact, many people were upset about that trade.

Hindsite would be 20/20 and yours is still screwy. Are you honestly saying there is something wrong with the 3-headed monster that has filled in at 2B/SS this year?

Where is the production lacking in that group?

Don't just whine, tell us what is wrong with the current team as it stands and how KW has failed to address those concerns.

Aside from the 5th starter situation, there doesn't seem to be much to gripe about.

kermittheefrog
05-30-2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
While I mentioned KW not getting enough in return for Jimenez, how could I possibly have forgotten Ray Durham. He was my favorite player during the 90's besides Frank Thomas and Blackjack. The guy was an all-star, and it's a shame all we could get for him was Adkins. I know for a fact, many people were upset about that trade.

Troll....

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 08:47 PM
We're in first place. We just smacked the Angels, took 3 out of 4 from the Twins on the road, have won our last four series, and we were 25-29 at this point last year.

Why are we even talking about Bradford and Jimenez?

Hangar18
05-30-2004, 08:48 PM
The FAILURE on Kennys & JR's part, is the FACT that
they DIDNT Resign Colon ........and Compounded this Foolish Error
By NOT Signing Another Pitcher. The 5th starter position is now 0-7. Talk in the Media is that Pitchers that are "available"
are now Commanding HIGH PRICES. Much HIGHER than what It wouldve COST had they simply signed a pitcher in the OffSeason. Because they DIDNT, they Will NOW LOSE PROSPECTS, which will ALWAYS INEVITABLY cost them More in the Long Run.

REason 4,564 why The SOX havnt been to the WORLD SERIES
since 1959.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
While I mentioned KW not getting enough in return for Jimenez, how could I possibly have forgotten Ray Durham. He was my favorite player during the 90's besides Frank Thomas and Blackjack. The guy was an all-star, and it's a shame all we could get for him was Adkins. I know for a fact, many people were upset about that trade.

Here is the reaction to Durham being dumped.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13480&highlight=Durham+trade

It's official. This ballclub is moving backwards. The "cash" part of this deal proves the point.

Omigod, you're right! We gave up an everyday secondbasemen for a AAA pitcher with a Ritchie-esque ERA. AND Kenny Williams agreed to pay the remainder of Durham's salary, too?

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
While I mentioned KW not getting enough in return for Jimenez, how could I possibly have forgotten Ray Durham. He was my favorite player during the 90's besides Frank Thomas and Blackjack. The guy was an all-star, and it's a shame all we could get for him was Adkins. I know for a fact, many people were upset about that trade.

Adkins right now has a 2.89 ERA out of the Bullpen earning 301,000. Durham was hitting .278 with a .746 OPS while making about 7,2000,000. Durham's VORP is 4.9. Adkins' is 6.0. Adkins is 26. Durham is 32 and past his prime.

Oh wait, you wont understand that because VORP is a concept that you have no clue about because you're arguements are so pathetic that you cannot possibly have any knowledge of statistics.

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Here is the reaction to Durham being dumped.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13480&highlight=Durham+trade

Who cares what the reaction was the night of the trade. Everyone was upset that we traded him because it signified that we were done. The fact remains that there was speculation that compensatory picks would be eliminated with the new CBA so Kenny got what he could. I love the whole premise of complaining about this trade. Like somewhere out there a team was offering 2 stud prospects but Kenny said "Hell no, I'm just gonna take Jon Adkins." Meanwhile, Adkins has pitched well for us this year. Not like you've actually noticed...

I answered your question. Care to answer mine anytime soon?

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Here is the reaction to Durham being dumped.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13480&highlight=Durham+trade

LOL!

That thread is 2 years old. If the Sox hadn't made some moves to improve the 2B position since that time, you MIGHT have a point, but as it is. You are still pissing into the wind and getting soaked...

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
The FAILURE on Kennys & JR's part, is the FACT that
they DIDNT Resign Colon ........and Compounded this Foolish Error
By NOT Signing Another Pitcher. The 5th starter position is now 0-7. Talk in the Media is that Pitchers that are "available"
are now Commanding HIGH PRICES. Much HIGHER than what It wouldve COST had they simply signed a pitcher in the OffSeason. Because they DIDNT, they Will NOW LOSE PROSPECTS, which will ALWAYS INEVITABLY cost them More in the Long Run.

REason 4,564 why The SOX havnt been to the WORLD SERIES
since 1959.

I agree 100%. JR is a factor that I did not list. I figured it was just a given. The point you mentioned by not even signing any pitcher is on target. It is just ludicrous that KW would just be able to assume that we could pull a 5th starter out of our rear end.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Who cares what the reaction was the night of the trade. Everyone was upset that we traded him because it signified that we were done. The fact remains that there was speculation that compensatory picks would be eliminated with the new CBA so Kenny got what he could. I love the whole premise of complaining about this trade. Like somewhere out there a team was offering 2 stud prospects but Kenny said "Hell no, I'm just gonna take Jon Adkins." Meanwhile, Adkins has pitched well for us this year. Not like you've actually noticed...

I answered your question. Care to answer mine anytime soon?

My god, why not just keep Durham and get a compensation pick?

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Who cares what the reaction was the night of the trade. Everyone was upset that we traded him because it signified that we were done. The fact remains that there was speculation that compensatory picks would be eliminated with the new CBA so Kenny got what he could. I love the whole premise of complaining about this trade. Like somewhere out there a team was offering 2 stud prospects but Kenny said "Hell no, I'm just gonna take Jon Adkins." Meanwhile, Adkins has pitched well for us this year.

I answered your question. Care to answer mine anytime soon?

Koch Master answers no questions and defends no points, preferring bluster and arrogance over actual discussion. Koch Master says it, so it must be true regardless of all the evidence thrown in their face. Koch Master hates KW and thus KW sucks. It is simply that simple. Koch Master has spoken.

See, Koch Master has their own reality and they just cannot be bothered with details and arguments...

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
The FAILURE on Kennys & JR's part, is the FACT that
they DIDNT Resign Colon ........and Compounded this Foolish Error
By NOT Signing Another Pitcher. The 5th starter position is now 0-7. Talk in the Media is that Pitchers that are "available"
are now Commanding HIGH PRICES. Much HIGHER than what It wouldve COST had they simply signed a pitcher in the OffSeason. Because they DIDNT, they Will NOW LOSE PROSPECTS, which will ALWAYS INEVITABLY cost them More in the Long Run.

REason 4,564 why The SOX havnt been to the WORLD SERIES
since 1959.

Colon has a 5.19 ERA and it sounds like he's having back problems. He has already given up 13 long balls too. It's one thing that we didnt get a fifth starter. It's another that we didnt sign Colon. No way we, or anyone besides the Angels were going to give him 50 million over 4 years.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
My god, why not just keep Durham and get a compensation pick?

Okay, nice and slow...

The story was that the new CBA would eliminate compensation picks. But even if he had, that would mean a guy 2-3 years from being MLB ready (still and even then only maybe) as opposed to Adkins who is helping the bullpen right now.

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Koch Master answers no questions and defends no points, preferring bluster and arrogance over actual discussion. Koch Master says it, so it must be true regardless of all the evidence thrown in their face. Koch Master hates KW and thus KW sucks. It is simply that simple. Koch Master has spoken.

See, Koch Master has their own reality and they just cannot be bothered with details and arguments...

LOL!

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Koch Master answers no questions and defends no points, preferring bluster and arrogance over actual discussion. Koch Master says it, so it must be true regardless of all the evidence thrown in their face. Koch Master hates KW and thus KW sucks. It is simply that simple. Koch Master has spoken.

See, Koch Master has their own reality and they just cannot be bothered with details and arguments...

Voodoo, then who do you blame for not returning to the playoffs since a 95 win season?

twinsuck1
05-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Bitch,Bitch,Bitch! Whos In first place?????????? :)

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
My god, why not just keep Durham and get a compensation pick?

Obviously you didn't even bother to read my post....

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Voodoo, then who do you blame for not returning to the playoffs since a 95 win season?

I dont know about Voodoo, but I blame Jerry Manuel

FarWestChicago
05-30-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
My god, why not just keep Durham and get a compensation pick? :ray

Because I prefer to be paid for being on the DL more than Sandy Alomar while living in the Bay Area. The weather is nicer.

Daver
05-30-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Voodoo, then who do you blame for not returning to the playoffs since a 95 win season?

:troll

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Voodoo, then who do you blame for not returning to the playoffs since a 95 win season?

I blame it on a combination of factors, including the 2001 season where both Wells and Frank went down, the 2002 season where Frank wasn't 100% and the big pitching acquisition turned out to be a mistake (unlike you I don't think KW is perfectly good or perfectly bad) and Jerry Manuel (yes, he should have been fired, but I lay that at JR's feet, not KW's).

In addition, I blame a young hungry Twins squad.

Again, what would you do differently last year (Foulke trade, but I still disagree that Koch is why the Sox lost it). Other than that, not much to disagree with.

Again, what do you see wrong with the current team?

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I dont know about Voodoo, but I blame Jerry Manuel

True, but can't I blame KW for not firing Manuel in time. I was thinking about it this morning, what kind of effect do you think changing managers during mid-season last year would have had? Could Ozzie have kept us from getting swept in Minnesota? I think he would have got us in the playoffs.

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 09:07 PM
You know what this thread reminds me of?

http://www.phillycs.com/forums/uploads/post-7-1085007187.jpg

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
True, but can't I blame KW for not firing Manuel in time. I was thinking about it this morning, what kind of effect do you think changing managers during mid-season last year would have had? Could Ozzie have kept us from getting swept in Minnesota? I think he would have got us in the playoffs.

What makes you think Ozzie was available mid season last year?

Daver
05-30-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
True, but can't I blame KW for not firing Manuel in time. I was thinking about it this morning, what kind of effect do you think changing managers during mid-season last year would have had? Could Ozzie have kept us from getting swept in Minnesota? I think he would have got us in the playoffs.

Change your sig, it is over the size limitation.

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Change your sig, it is over the size limitation.

A Jeremy Reed sig? Are you sure you want that Koch Master? He was drafted by the evil Kenny Williams!

Since you apparently don't want to answer my question since you know where it is going, I'll answer it for you. Damaso Marte had a MUCH better year last year than Matt Guerrier.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Change your sig, it is over the size limitation.

ok, sorry......I'll change it right away.

rahulsekhar
05-30-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
You are missing the point. We didn't get enough in the trade, and this was just another trade in a long line of bad moves by KW. We should have gotten a reliever to help us out immediately or prospects for the valuable D'Angelo Jimenez.



OK, let's recap that "long line" of bad moves....

2001:
Mike Sirotka for David Wells - good move, didnt' work out
Aaron Myette for Royce Clayton - wash (yourwords)

2002:
Wells, Fogg, Lowe for Ritchie - terrible move, but Fogg & Lowe are not anything to be missed. So let's not say he gave up 3 good players for 1. It was 1 for 1 and we gave up 2 scraps. Still - a bad move.

Durham for Adkins - good move. At the time, no compensation for FAs was going to be in the CBA. Durham's done little to nothing for a few years, Adkins is pitching well out of the pen

Bradford for Olivo - wash to good move. A potential stud @ C for a middle reliever. The time differential is what could make this a wash, but I view it as a KW win.

Koch for Foulke - bad move, although Koch's injury made it worse than the move was at the time

Willie Harris for Chris SIngleton & Brook Fordyce - GREAT move

Resign Konerko - bad to average move

Marte for ???? - GREAT move

2003:
Resign Koch - bad move (but in KWs defense, at the time Koch wasn't hurt. Still - bad move)

E-lo, Gordon - GREAT moves

Sullivan for ???? - good move
Everett for mid-low prospects - great move
Alomar for Ring - good move
Schoenweis for Glover - great move

Jimenez for whoever - I say it's a wash, but for your benefit: bad move

2004:
Takatsu - good move
Uribe for Miles - Great move

Hmmm.....seems like a couple of bad moves & 1 terrible move that are MORE than offset by good and great mvoes. Throw in some excellent drafts and I'd say KW is far from a terrible GM.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
A Jeremy Reed sig? Are you sure you want that Koch Master? He was drafted by the evil Kenny Williams!

Since you apparently don't want to answer my question since you know where it is going, I'll answer it for you. Damaso Marte had a MUCH better year last year than Matt Guerrier.

You got me there man.......I'll take Marte for sure. That is one of the only trades I agree with though. Overall, Kenny Williams has been an utter disaster. We have had the highest pay-roll in the central and have not been back to the playoffs. Kenny Williams failed to address the managerial situation early on and it back-fired. He finally caved into the pressure to fire the loser thank god.

Tragg
05-30-2004, 09:17 PM
Williams is a much, much better GM than Scheuler was. It was SCHEULER who took a stocked farm and major league club in the early 1990s and effed it up. This farm system is no worse than when KW took over.

Marte, Harris, Uribe, Olivo, Cotts, Adkins, Scho, ALL KW aquisitions via trade and all contributors.
Who did we lose that are contributors? (not counting FA)? Wells, Fogg, Eyre, Bradford, and I'm sure there's a player or two I'm forgetting (Joe Valentine started today- his ERA is now 27).

Jiminez and his .222 BA doesn't count because wiliams traded for him and traded him away.

And most of all KW isn't afraid of making a trade. Scheuler was so mamby-pamby- refused to trade with an AL team, wouldn't give up hot prospects like Scott Ruffcorn an Jesus Pena.

As for not firing JM quickly enough, a) who hired him in the first place? and b)who hired Gene LaMont and Terry Bevington?

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What makes you think Ozzie was available mid season last year?

I think he would have jumped at the opportunity to manage us. I'm sure the Marlins would be willing to give up a 3rd base coach so he could manage a team in a different league.

beckett21
05-30-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Ron Schueler's legacy
- Gives us a 95-win season and the best record in the American League.
- Turns over the best minor league system in the MLB to his predecessor


:jaime

"I thought I was your legacy, Schu."

:schueler

"Don't worry big guy, I still love ya. Now hand me my 7-iron."

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
He think he would have jumped at the opportunity to manage us. I'm sure the Marlins would be willing to give up a 3rd base coach so he could manage a team in a different league.

Based on what? Your massive experience tampering with other team's coaches?

*****!

No way the Marlins let Ozzie go in the middle of the season. Correct me if I am wrong, but they did win it all last year. Why would they have considered letting one of the members of their coaching staff leave mid season? It makes no sense at all.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar

Willie Harris for Chris SIngleton & Brook Fordyce - GREAT move
Jimenez for whoever - I say it's a wash, but for your benefit: bad move

2004:
Takatsu - good move
Uribe for Miles - Great move

Throw in some excellent drafts and I'd say KW is far from a terrible GM.

Fordyce was not part of the Harris deal. We got CJ and Baines for Fordyce (anyone else?)......besides that was Schueler.

Daver
05-30-2004, 09:27 PM
On the subject I can add only this, anyone that will take a position to back Ron Schueler, who did little other than live off of the farm system that was handed to him by Larry Himes, is a fool. Almost as a big a fool as Jumbotron Ron himself, please remind me how much Ron's daughter has helped the Sox, after all he drafted her in a higher round than Mark Buerhle was drafted in.

kittle42
05-30-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Fordyce was not part of the Harris deal. We got CJ and Bains for Fordyce (anyone else?)......besides that was Scheuler.

Who is "Bains" and who is "Scheuler?" :smile:

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Daver
On the subject I can add only this, anyone that will take a position to back Ron Schueler, who did little other than live off of the farm system that was handed to him by Larry Himes, is a fool. Almost as a big a fool as Jumbotron Ron himself, please remind me how much Ron's daughter has helped the Sox, after all he drafted her in a higher round than Mark Buerhle was drafted in.

Ron Schueler was not by any means a bad GM. We had a terrible owner for sure. We were good in the 90's, but we just couldn't get passed the Indians for the most part. I remember Hawk once saying that we had the 5th most amount of wins in the 90's right behind the Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, and Astros. By the way, the Cubs had the least wins excluding the expansion teams.

Daver
05-30-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Ron Schueler was not by any means a bad GM. We had a terrible owner for sure. We were good in the 90's, but we just couldn't get passed the Indians for the most part. I remember Hawk once saying that we had the 5th most amount of wins in the 90's right behind the Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, and Astros. By the way, the Cubs had the least wins excluding the expansion teams.

If I ever get done laughing I might respond to this.


Ron Schueler was a horrible GM.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:39 PM
I think it was Lip who mentioned this a little earlier, but KW failed to sign Kenny Rogers cheap. He could have been had for a bargain. Now, who do we turn to? Mike Porzio? Let's just hope we can get a Kris Benson or Freddy Garcia. I would even take Anderson from the Royals.

beckett21
05-30-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
I would even take Anderson from the Royals.

I've heard of addition by subtraction, but I believe this would be considered subtraction by addition.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
I've heard of addition by subtraction, but I believe this would be considered subtraction by addition.

Well, Anderson would be good just to fill the 5th starter spot. Ideally, I want a #1 or #2 starter to fill that spot.

beckett21
05-30-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Well, Anderson would be good just to fill the 5th starter spot. Ideally, I want a #1 or #2 starter to fill that spot.

That's my point. That guy has been AWFUL and probably has a nasty case of whiplash by now. We don't need that kind of guy.

ChiSox7
05-30-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Well, Anderson would be good just to fill the 5th starter spot. Ideally, I want a #1 or #2 starter to fill that spot.

Anderson is the worst starter in the league. He has the worst VORP in the AL. He is awful. He can't even start on his own team's rotation, and thats sayin something.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 09:49 PM
We just need to stay healthy. My fear is that one of our starters will go down and we will have no one to replace them with because of our lack of middle-infield prospects. That's why I really despise KW for trading Jimenez. It would be nice to have him in case we need his services. The same could be said for Craig Wilson and Greg Norton. Many were complaining about Dransfeldt being called up, I was one of them, and if we still had Jimenez......we could be using him to sub instead.

Really, who wouldn't want to see Jimenez on the 25-man roster instead of Kelly Dransfeldt?

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We just need to stay healthy. My fear is that one of our starters will go down and we will have no one to replace them with because of our lack of middle-infield prospects. That's why I really despise KW for trading Jimenez. It would be nice to have him incase we need his services. The same could be said for Craig Wilson and Greg Norton. Many were complaining about Dransfeldt being called up, I was one of them, and if we still had Jimenez......we could be using him to sub instead.

So it mostly comes down to the possibility that someone might get hurt, so they might need a replacement player and then (maybe) it would be cool to have Jimenez?

Wilson?

Norton?

Don't the Sox have uribe who is better than any of these guys and can play all the IF positions?

I guess I'm just confused. This argument is going nowhere and I feel like I am in a time warp - arguing about Jimenez, Wilson and Norton... I'm done. You can continue to whine if you want to, but I see no point in continuing to go round with you.

Have fun, I am through...

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 09:54 PM
Really, who wouldn't want to see Jimenez on the 25-man roster instead of Kelly Dransfeldt?

*raising hand*

CanOfCorn
05-30-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Now, do you remember that huge game-winning hit Jimenez had off of Remlinger to beat the Cubs at the cell? The bottom line is, Jimenez was there when we needed him, and he is there for the Reds too. [/B]

Now, do you remember that huge game-tying double that Dransfeldt hit against the Devil Rays on April 25 that scored Ross Gload? Dransfeldt was there when we needed him.

*rolling eyes*

OEO Magglio
05-30-2004, 10:03 PM
I got to page two and I can't even read this rest of this. Voodoo has said it best THIS THREAD SUCKS. Jiminez sucks. The only truely awful trade KW made was the Kip Wells deal. The foulke deal was awful for last year but he's in Boston this year no matter what. So now atleast the sox have a closer for this year and another very solid lefty out of the pen and a guy who can eventually become a solid starting pitcher.

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We just need to stay healthy. My fear is that one of our starters will go down and we will have no one to replace them with because of our lack of middle-infield prospects. That's why I really despise KW for trading Jimenez. It would be nice to have him in case we need his services. The same could be said for Craig Wilson and Greg Norton. Many were complaining about Dransfeldt being called up, I was one of them, and if we still had Jimenez......we could be using him to sub instead.

Really, who wouldn't want to see Jimenez on the 25-man roster instead of Kelly Dransfeldt?

Craig Wilson? He isn't even playing anymore. And Greg Norton is tearing it up with Detroit at an amazing .178/.294/.274 clip. Yeah, we really miss those two!

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Craig Wilson? He isn't even playing anymore. And Greg Norton is tearing it up with Detroit at an amazing .178/.294/.274 clip. Yeah, we really miss those two!

Craig Wilson is on the Pirates, isn't he?

Jjav829
05-30-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
Craig Wilson is on the Pirates, isn't he?

Different guy. That Craig Wilson can actually hit. The guy we used to have couldn't.

Koch Master
05-30-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Different guy. That Craig Wilson can actually hit. The guy we used to have couldn't.

My mistake, you're right.

doublem23
05-30-2004, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
One word....

Kieth Foulke

.......he was in our minor league system and developed under us.

Um, Foulke was acquired by the Sox from San Francisco in late 1997 and was a full-time MLB player in 1998.

doublem23
05-30-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
The FAILURE on Kennys & JR's part, is the FACT that
they DIDNT Resign Colon ........and Compounded this Foolish Error
By NOT Signing Another Pitcher. The 5th starter position is now 0-7. Talk in the Media is that Pitchers that are "available"
are now Commanding HIGH PRICES. Much HIGHER than what It wouldve COST had they simply signed a pitcher in the OffSeason. Because they DIDNT, they Will NOW LOSE PROSPECTS, which will ALWAYS INEVITABLY cost them More in the Long Run.

REason 4,564 why The SOX havnt been to the WORLD SERIES
since 1959.

Ah! Stop griping about Colon! Anaheim way overpaid for him, and speaking of which, he is currently having injury troubles with a bad back. Yes, we are all upset that Colon bolted for Anaheim, but the Sox offered him the most lucrative contract in franchise history.

Jesus Christ...

ChiSox7
05-30-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Ah! Stop griping about Colon! Anaheim way overpaid for him, and speaking of which, he is currently having injury troubles with a bad back. Yes, we are all upset that Colon bolted for Anaheim, but the Sox offered him the most lucrative contract in franchise history.

Jesus Christ...


Seriously. Colon was worth nowhere near the money that ANA paid him. No where near.

doublem23
05-30-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by CanOfCorn
You know what this thread reminds me of?

http://www.phillycs.com/forums/uploads/post-7-1085007187.jpg

LOL!

doublem23
05-30-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Based on what? Your massive experience tampering with other team's coaches?

*****!

No way the Marlins let Ozzie go in the middle of the season. Correct me if I am wrong, but they did win it all last year. Why would they have considered letting one of the members of their coaching staff leave mid season? It makes no sense at all.

Welcome to this thread.

Realist
05-30-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Troll....

Actually I was thinking, "Schueler...."

kittle42
05-30-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We just need to stay healthy. My fear is that one of our starters will go down and we will have no one to replace them with because of our lack of middle-infield prospects. That's why I really despise KW for trading Jimenez. It would be nice to have him in case we need his services. The same could be said for Craig Wilson and Greg Norton. Many were complaining about Dransfeldt being called up, I was one of them, and if we still had Jimenez......we could be using him to sub instead.

Really, who wouldn't want to see Jimenez on the 25-man roster instead of Kelly Dransfeldt?

Worst....post....ever.

Plus, it marks the third time in this thread you have had your facts mixed up in one way or another, which has given your "arguments" quite the boost in credibility.

Randar68
05-30-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
My mistake, you're right.

This guy exemplifies why i just call people like this an "idiot" from the start and get it over with before anyone stresses about it.

where's that cluepon?

:threadsucks

SluggersAway
05-31-2004, 12:06 AM
This thread really does suck unless you're looking for an history lesson.

Check the standings and our stats...

Then look on the bright side of life.

Things are looking up on the south side.

I love White Sox ball!

Keep up the outstanding work KW, Frank, Oz, Buerhle, Uribe, Shingo, Olivo, Willie, Billy, Paulie, Mags, Jose, Carlos, Esteban, Neil, Schoen...etc.

If you think you can, or you think you can't: you are right.

Let's be positive, and the support the best team we've seen in a long while.

batmanZoSo
05-31-2004, 12:28 AM
Ugh. Please let this be the end of this...

:tomatoaward

Can we get a teal version of this pic?

nasox
05-31-2004, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
Worst....post....ever.

Plus, it marks the third time in this thread you have had your facts mixed up in one way or another, which has given your "arguments" quite the boost in credibility.

Actually (and I agree with you) worst......poster (disregarding all the cubbie trolls).......ever. You have the intelligence of an 8 year old. Wait.....I know plenty of eight year olds than are smarter than you. My next door neighbor for an example.

pearso66
05-31-2004, 01:10 AM
I have to reply, this was the FUNNIEST thread I've ever read. Apparently Koch Master has NO idea what he is talking about. I can think of a lot of people who would rather haev Dransfeldt on the 25 man rotation over Jimenez, just ask everyone that posts here. While we're at it, why dont we bring back Craig Grabeck (sp?) he was at least decent. I can't believe you would bring up memories of Norton and Jimenez, when we had 2 other guys that were let go, in Milk Man and T-Graff that were light years ahead of those 2. And those dont even bother me.

Overall I guess I have to say, how could you (Koch Master) seriously post with a straight face, i was laughing so hard I was crying at this thread.

StockdaleForVeep
05-31-2004, 01:57 AM
I find it funny\sad that 99-100% of his posts are in this thread, and his name is after a man he's complaining about the sox getting.

Also note: KW got us gload, a travelling farm player who seems for, at the moment, to have settled nicely now

Ive argued this a long time ago, Your offered a stud in David wells for sirotka, who u may or may not know is hurt when u deal him. WHO WOULDNT take david wells based on his talent.

Every time a ball was hit to Jiminez i prayed to god that it was not a bouncer or hard that a little league infielder couldnt play. He was atrocious at 2b and i felt so much relief when we got Robbie to play. Now we have willie, who like olivo is the future and maybe franchise of this team.

Is there a tag for the gun i wanna use to blow my brains out from actually reading every post? :?:

pearso66
05-31-2004, 02:01 AM
I found it funny that he kept bringing up giving up bradford but would not mention that we got Olivo in return for bradford. And then if you read in another thread, he said the sox are better off without maggs. Who is this guy?

Saracen
05-31-2004, 02:02 AM
Why is everyone feeding the troll?

StockdaleForVeep
05-31-2004, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by pearso66
I found it funny that he kept bringing up giving up bradford but would not mention that we got Olivo in return for bradford. And then if you read in another thread, he said the sox are better off without maggs. Who is this guy?


:jerry
"Im tellin ya its not me, I LOVE KENNY AND ALL HIS CHILDREN AND DECISIONS! REALLY!"

pearso66
05-31-2004, 02:06 AM
Why not feed him, it's not every day I get a good laugh like that. :)

Harry Chappas Jr
05-31-2004, 08:02 AM
Come on, D'Angelo Jimenez? First of all, second base is not the Sox biggest problem right now. Secondly, who in there right mind would give up a decent pitcher for a light-hitting secondbaseman with limited range and an attitude problem? And third, .352 is not a great OBP. Find something else to whine about.

voodoochile
05-31-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Ugh. Please let this be the end of this...

:tomatoaward

Can we get a teal version of this pic?

The green tomato award? :D:

rahulsekhar
05-31-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Harry Chappas Jr
Come on, D'Angelo Jimenez? First of all, second base is not the Sox biggest problem right now. Secondly, who in there right mind would give up a decent pitcher for a light-hitting secondbaseman with limited range and an attitude problem? And third, .352 is not a great OBP. Find something else to whine about.

Yeah, because a .240 hitting, head-up-his-butt baserunning, loafing middle infielder is what's keeping this organization from the promised land - its obvious!!!

batmanZoSo
05-31-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The green tomato award? :D:

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3f4abfd6_11203/bc/Yahoo!+Photo+Album/401d.jpg?pfcd6uAB6uSplTYZ

CWSGuy406
05-31-2004, 05:12 PM
I almost coughed up my dinner because I was laughing so hard when I saw the Koch Master put "Sandy Alomar and Jamie Burke could be our starting catchers" in response to the Olivo/Bradford trade...

Hangar18
05-31-2004, 05:12 PM
how about the Platinum Tomato?

jabrch
05-31-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
We have established that Kenny Williams is notorious for over-paying for players in trades. But he also gets very little in return. Point in case is Jimenez. We got Scott Dunn for him last year! Not Adam Dunn, but some crap ass pitcher who isn't even in our minor leagues anymore. Meanwhile, Jimenez is on a first place team with a .352 OBP! Stop the insanity. The Myette for Clayton deal was a wash, but Manuel made the repercussions worse.

Are you serious?

SPOTW (Stupidest Post of the Week)

jabrch
05-31-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Koch Master
The freaking joke is you saying Bradford wouldn't have helped us. The Angels have demonstrated that you need a strong and reliable pen to win the world series. Just imagine if we could plug Bradford in there right now? We could still have Jaime Burke and Alomar catching.

Have you seen Bradford pitch lately? He aint no good. BTW - do you know where Miguel Olivo came from?

Jjav829
05-31-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Have you seen Bradford pitch lately? He aint no good. BTW - do you know where Miguel Olivo came from?

Something tells me he won't be responding to your post. :smile:

Koch Master has been pretty thoroughly beat down.

jabrch
05-31-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Something tells me he won't be responding to your post. :smile:

Koch Master has been pretty thoroughly beat down.


Well, I was gone for the weekend and wanted a chance at him.

StockdaleForVeep
05-31-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
how about the Platinum Tomato?


How about atom bombing\deleting this thread?