PDA

View Full Version : Lets Trade Jon Rauch............


Paid Santiago
05-30-2004, 04:36 PM
and allow him to be a good damn starter like Kip Wells.


I am a white sox fan but ***** KW. I hope he trades rauch and we get someone decent or serviceable but Rauch fulfills his potential and becomes a 15 win 3 era pitcher.


I'm sick of this organization and the complete unprofessional, BS we fans put up with. Go White Sox the team, but forget the organization

doublem23
05-30-2004, 04:39 PM
Difference between Jon Rauch and Kip Wells is the Wells has no history of injury, while Rauch has had surgery for a torn labrum (AKA a pitcher's death). Considering the way Williams talked about Rauch yesterday, any little trade value there has been evaporated. Trading Rauch right now makes no sense. What little potential he has probably overshadows anything you'd ever pull in for a trade.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 04:55 PM
How come it's always Kip people point to, not Fogg or Myette or the guy they traded for Marte?

doublem23
05-30-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How come it's always Kip people point to, not Fogg or Myette or the guy they traded for Marte?

Kip is good. Fogg, Myette, and Guerrier are not.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Kip is good. Fogg, Myette, and Guerrier are not.

exactly, so why do people automatically assume any pitcher they trade will be Kip and not one of the sucky ones?

fquaye149
05-30-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
exactly, so why do people automatically assume any pitcher they trade will be Kip and not one of the sucky ones?


kip wells would not have been as good a pitcher had he stayed in chicago.

i believe he is too mentally weak to pitch anywhere but baseball no man's lands like pittsburgh.

same with rauch apparently.

to sum up: wells wouldn't have pitched that well for us and would never have been a clutch pitcher, so our loss is not as big as it looks, meanwhile, pittsburgh's gain does not hurt us

so basically, as long as they don't trade rauch to a divisional rival or playoff team, it should be the same situation.

Rex Hudler
05-30-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How come it's always Kip people point to, not Fogg or Myette or the guy they traded for Marte?

Don't look now, but the guy they traded for Marte may just be pitching against the Sox soon. He is pitching very well in AAA for the Twins. Two of his losses were due to blown saves.

W- L- S ERA GP IP H AB AVG TBF R ER HR BB SO
3- 4- 0 2.97 10 63.2 53 235 .226 248 26 21 10 7 48

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Don't look now, but the guy they traded for Marte may just be pitching against the Sox soon. He is pitching very well in AAA for the Twins. Two of his losses were due to blown saves.

W- L- S ERA GP IP H AB AVG TBF R ER HR BB SO
3- 4- 0 2.97 10 63.2 53 235 .226 248 26 21 10 7 48

guerrier, right? He had similar stats with the Sox and the Pirates. 2.97 at AAA is nothing amazing...

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
guerrier, right? He had similar stats with the Sox and the Pirates. 2.97 at AAA is nothing amazing...

Diaz had a 1.86 ERA at AAA with awesome WHIP, K/9 and K/BB rates before coming up for the Sox and look where it got him.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Diaz had a 1.86 ERA at AAA with awesome WHIP, K/9 and K/BB rates before coming up for the Sox and look where it got him.

Guerrier is also averaging a HR/G given up.

In addition if this is an example of a KW trade gone wrong, I want to see him screw up some more just like it.

mmmmmbeeer
05-30-2004, 08:52 PM
I can't believe people are worried about Rauch's trade value, lol. The guy has proven ABSOLUTELY nothing since his injury. A 3+ ERA in AAA is not exactly proving anything, so please don't use that, especially when Rex reports that the guy hasn't gotten past 6IP in a single game. He looked like complete crap yesterday. He has a history of temper tantrums and selfishness. Where was the trade value at? Because he was good before he had a TORN LABRUM?????

Rauch wasn't ever going to get us anything in a straight up trade, nothing has changed. Before his 5/29 start he was good for nothing more than a component of a package deal, after 5/29 he is still good for nothing more than a component of a package deal.

All this talk of straight up trades, Rauch for whomever....Diaz is actually performing exceptionally well at AAA, had two poor starts with the Sox, does that mean that he'd have exceptional value in a straight up deal? I highly doubt it.

mmmmmbeeer
05-30-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Guerrier is also averaging a HR/G given up.

In addition if this is an example of a KW trade gone wrong, I want to see him screw up some more just like it.

1HR/6IP
or
30HR/180IP..... in AAA

MRKARNO
05-30-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Guerrier is also averaging a HR/G given up.

In addition if this is an example of a KW trade gone wrong, I want to see him screw up some more just like it.

Last time I checked, Aaron Miles was in AAA after hitting only .258 with a pathetic .638 OPS with Colorado. Also, Gary Glover has a 7.20 ERA at AAA Iowa over 30 IP. Rocky Biddle has a 7.20 ERA for Montreal and Leifer's in AAA. Besides the Ritchie trade (which wasnt even all that bad. Fogg is awful and Wells has a 4 ERA, which today in the NL is not very good. The Koch for Foulke trade was terrible for us last year, but this year the A's dont have anything from that and we have two effective relievers (Cotts and Koch). Koch has one of the highest K/9 ratios of any closer this year and has only blown a single save. He's been setting people down 1-2-3 a lot lately. In the Ritchie trade, we got something while the Jays got nothing. He signed Shingo and Loaiza too.

And KW is a bad GM?

Effective MLs we have at current moment from his tenure:
Olivo
Koch
Shcoeneweis
Loaiza
Uribe
Harris
Marte
Takatsu
Jackson
Cotts

That's practically our entire team. In all of this the only effective MLs we lost was Kip Wells (I wont count Foulke because he'd been gone by now anyways). Where would we be without these players? I'll tell you, nowhere.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by mmmmmbeeer
1HR/6IP
or
30HR/180IP..... in AAA

I assume that is a typo. He has given up 10 HR which does indeed translate to 30 over 180 IP.

I was going on 10 HR, 10 G...

mmmmmbeeer
05-30-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I assume that is a typo. He has given up 10 HR which does indeed translate to 30 over 180 IP.

I was going on 10 HR, 10 G...

I hear you man, I was just adding some perspective. I'm in agreement with you, the Sox essentially stole Marte.

Rex Hudler
05-30-2004, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Guerrier is also averaging a HR/G given up.

In addition if this is an example of a KW trade gone wrong, I want to see him screw up some more just like it.

I'm not saying it was a trade gone wrong at all...... I think the Sox got a great deal. I'm just saying that Matt is again pitching well after dealing with some injuries and may be on the verge of making it to the big leagues. I don't think he will end up there as a starter, but who knows. His weakness is definitely giving up HR's. He gave up 5 HR's in two of his starts. But fortunately, they generally don't hurt him too bad because he doesn't walk many hitters.

The Sox got Marte and he has been effective in the Majors for 2 years since that trade. At the time, Guerrier was one of several Sox pitchers that had done well. Guerrier, not being one of them that threw hard, was not the highest on the list. The trade was definitely good for the Sox no matter how Guerrier ends up. He just may not end up in the same class as Myette. Then again....... he may. He's just pitching real well right now.

Rex Hudler
05-30-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Last time I checked, Aaron Miles was in AAA after hitting only .258 with a pathetic .638 OPS with Colorado. Also, Gary Glover has a 7.20 ERA at AAA Iowa over 30 IP. Rocky Biddle has a 7.20 ERA for Montreal and Leifer's in AAA. Besides the Ritchie trade (which wasnt even all that bad. Fogg is awful and Wells has a 4 ERA, which today in the NL is not very good. The Koch for Foulke trade was terrible for us last year, but this year the A's dont have anything from that and we have two effective relievers (Cotts and Koch). Koch has one of the highest K/9 ratios of any closer this year and has only blown a single save. He's been setting people down 1-2-3 a lot lately. In the Ritchie trade, we got something while the Jays got nothing. He signed Shingo and Loaiza too.

And KW is a bad GM?

Effective MLs we have at current moment from his tenure:
Olivo
Koch
Shcoeneweis
Loaiza
Uribe
Harris
Marte
Takatsu
Jackson
Cotts

That's practically our entire team. In all of this the only effective MLs we lost was Kip Wells (I wont count Foulke because he'd been gone by now anyways). Where would we be without these players? I'll tell you, nowhere.

Nothing I posted in this discussion hinted at KW being a bad GM or making bad trades. I think voodoo took what I posted about Guerrier out of context.

voodoochile
05-30-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Nothing I posted in this discussion hinted at KW being a bad GM or making bad trades. I think voodoo took what I posted about Guerrier out of context.

The context of the thread was that Rauch = Kip Wells if traded.

I then pointed out that the Sox have also traded several other pitchers who haven't amounted to much.

You then defended one of those pitchers which led to a discussion of how good/bad Guerrier's stats actually were.

Thanks for clarifying your position on KW.

OurBitchinMinny
05-30-2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Paid Santiago
and allow him to be a good damn starter like Kip Wells.


I am a white sox fan but ***** KW. I hope he trades rauch and we get someone decent or serviceable but Rauch fulfills his potential and becomes a 15 win 3 era pitcher.


I'm sick of this organization and the complete unprofessional, BS we fans put up with. Go White Sox the team, but forget the organization

Rauch sucks and will never amount to anything, especially with the attitude he showed yesterday. Act professional. Bad starts are part of it all. Trade the whiny pissant to anyone who will take him

Rex Hudler
05-30-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The context of the thread was that Rauch = Kip Wells if traded.

I then pointed out that the Sox have also traded several other pitchers who haven't amounted to much.

You then defended one of those pitchers which led to a discussion of how good/bad Guerrier's stats actually were.

Thanks for clarifying your position on KW.

Yeah, point was not to bash him..... Despite the fact I think he is an ******* and has made some really stupid moves, other than the way the 5th starter spot has been handled, I think he has been pretty darned solid in the last year or two. No major complaints on that front from me.

Paid Santiago
05-30-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Rocky Biddle has a 7.20 ERA for Montreal and Leifer's in AAA. Besides the Ritchie trade (which wasnt even all that bad. Fogg is awful and Wells has a 4 ERA, which today in the NL is not very good.


we judge a trade on how players have done two months into a season?

in his two years since leaving the white sox organization, kip wells has averaged 198 innings pitched which translates to rougly 6 innings a game. and in his first year in the NL he had an e.r.a of 3.59, following his 2nd year in the Nl with a 3.28 era.

last year kip wells held batters to a remarkable .233 batting avg.

so far this year kip wells is 3 & 4 with a 4.03 e.r.a. coming into his last start his e.r.a was 3.86 . His era went up because he allowed 4 runs in 6 and 2/3rdss of an inning, again battling control problems(4 walks).


Fogg could be a very serviceable reliever we all know that, and in his first year as a starter he started 33 games, 4.35 e.r.a and pitched 194 innings. Now he sucks... and this year control problems have arisen.

Rocky biddle in save situations = 10 innings 3 runs 10 saves, 1 blown save. biddle does have a era of 7.36 but look at his stats when in save situations.

lets compare him to billy botch: 7.2 innings 6 runs, 7 saves 1 blown save.


hmmmmmmmm