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illiniwhitesox
05-29-2004, 07:06 PM
Well there is not doubt after today. After the first couple of weeks, I thought that we needed to shore up our bullpen.

That looks pretty solid.

There is one thing we are missing and it has never been more obvious. Please give us a reliable fifth starter.

Peter Gammons showed how much of a moron he is when he said a serviceable fifth starter is not big deal.

Give me a break! Over the course of a year, that has to be 15 games at least. We can't go zero for every fifth start. It might not matter in the playoffs, but it sure the hell matters in the regular season.

misty60481
05-29-2004, 07:46 PM
I think a 5th starter will have to come from within our minor league system there are to many clubs looking for the 5th starter and any team that has a pitcher considered a good 5th will want an arm and leg for them now

WinningUgly!
05-29-2004, 07:57 PM
I wish everybody would quit calling for a 5th starter. This team has already shown that it is capable of winning the AL Central, as is. There's no need to waste players/prospects in a deal for a 5th starter. Hopefully Ken Williams will now be allowed to go after a top of the rotation starter, to make the Sox a legit World Series contender. Think bigger.

Rex Hudler
05-29-2004, 07:59 PM
Just win 10-9 every 5 days. Who needs a good 5th starter? LOL

WinningUgly!
05-29-2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Just win 10-9 every 5 days. Who needs a good 5th starter? LOL

LOL! There is some truth to that. We never score for the 5th starter anyway. It doesn't really matter who gets put out there. :D:

Lip Man 1
05-29-2004, 08:58 PM
Winning:

On paper the Sox look like they can run away with this division. Where have we heard that before?

If this race is as close as many people think it's going to be the Sox can not afford to keep throwing away chances to win even if the 5th starter only is slated to go another ten times this season.

Sox 5th starters are now 3-18 the past two years. That's beyond incredible, it's beyond luck, it shows a lack of talent. The Sox simply can't afford this any longer.

Lip

MRKARNO
05-29-2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Winning:

On paper the Sox look like they can run away with this division. Where have we heard that before?

If this race is as close as many people think it's going to be the Sox can not afford to keep throwing away chances to win even if the 5th starter only is slated to go another ten times this season.

Sox 5th starters are now 3-18 the past two years. That's beyond incredible, it's beyond luck, it shows a lack of talent. The Sox simply can't afford this any longer.

Lip

Kenny Williams probably shares your anger at this stat. He admitted to working the phones very heavily the last 2 days before being forced to call up Rauch. No one is willing to admit their out of it this early in the game. A few weeks ago it looked like SF was out of it and now they're only 3.5 back in the NL West.

The only teams which are probably for sure out of it are Montreal, Seattle, Tampa Bay and Kansas City. I wouldnt write out anyone in the NL Central or West from contention yet. But I think out of those teams, only Seattle and Montreal have pitchers worth trading for.

Garcia on Seattle would be the best fit because their other pitchers arent doing too well despite the fact that piniero and Meche are good young arms.

In Montreal, everyone's been doing good, but the one we need to go after is Livan Hernandez. Zach Day, who is a groundball pitcher and Tomo Ohka who has had a good amount of success in the past might also be lesser options if they refuse to trade Livan.

Arizona, Toronto and Colorado are also out of serious contention at this point, but the only pitchers worth trading for are Halladay, Johnson, Webb and Joe Kennedy. The first three arent gonna be traded, but the last one is very interesting. Kennedy has posted a 2.63 ERA away from Coors Field so he might be valuable, but he could always collapse so it's not even close to being safe.

The only other teams we could trade for are teams that dont expect to contend in the long term or contending teams to whom we'd have to give up a current starter.

Do you see how tough this is for Kenny? It really aint easy at all, but I guarentee you that he spends hours upon hours a day trying to get a 5th starter.

beckett21
05-29-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I wish everybody would quit calling for a 5th starter. This team has already shown that it is capable of winning the AL Central, as is. There's no need to waste players/prospects in a deal for a 5th starter. Hopefully Ken Williams will now be allowed to go after a top of the rotation starter, to make the Sox a legit World Series contender. Think bigger.

It's a matter of semantics. When I personally refer to a *5th starter*, I don't mean a journeyman. I agree with you that it should be a top of the rotation type of guy, or at least a #2 or #3 caliber starter.

Assuming we have 4 starters, we need a 5th one, period. Not a #5 type of guy. Does that make sense? I totally agree with you, but I think people are putting different meanings on what *fifth starter* means. To me it means we have 4 and need one more.

It doesn't mean that we need a Darren Oliver or Rick Helling-type. Yuk!

illiniwhitesox
05-29-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I wish everybody would quit calling for a 5th starter. This team has already shown that it is capable of winning the AL Central, as is. There's no need to waste players/prospects in a deal for a 5th starter. Hopefully Ken Williams will now be allowed to go after a top of the rotation starter, to make the Sox a legit World Series contender. Think bigger.

I'm calling for a 5th starter b/c this is exactly what we need. Last time I checked, our #1 through #4 guys were very solid. We don't need to replace them, so let's keep the focus on what we really need.

Because all of us are asking for a fifth starter, we don't want a top pitcher? I guess we just want a mediocre pitcher who is not as bad as the current slugs we have been putting in our rotation as the #5 arm.

All of us want a top guy! All of us are asking for a 5th starter who can win games or keep us in games. All of us want the best arm available. There's no splitting hairs on this one.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2004, 11:05 PM
Karno:

I agree and am not faulting Kenny at this point. It's waaayyyy to early for any team to be 'conceeding.' They still have to try to draw fans.

Where I do fault Kenny (although more to the point good ole Uncle Jerry) is that the Sox always seem to be short at least one pitcher.

It all comes down to money...pitching costs money, the Sox refuse to pay it. Instead they continue to believe their own hype about the 'can't miss kids.'

How many times are they going to go down that street?

Lip