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View Full Version : Peter Gammons on the Sox - Good Stuff


bigdommer
05-28-2004, 08:30 AM
Peter Gammons of ESPN was on Mike and Mike's ESPN radio show this morning talking about the Sox. He had nothing but good things to say about our Sox.

He said that this was a team that might have underacheived because of Jerry Manual, but Ozzie's energy has really lifted guys. He didn't talk about the offense because he said that everybody knows that this team would hit and score runs. He said that he was very impressed with their pitching. He talked about how Esteban Loiaza's last few outings were a good reminder of how dominant he was last year and that he thinks he will continue to pitch well. He also said that Mark Buehrle is one of the top if not the top lefty in the AL. He also commented on how Jon Garland and Shoney are very solid back end rotation guys.

He said the only negative was their 5th starter, but he was confident that KW would go out and make a move. He gave KW a lot of credit saying that he doesn't make excuses, he makes moves. He expects the Sox to start making moves soon. However, he commented that he doesn't think the 5th starter is that big of a deal because he only starts 20-25 times a year and that he is not needed in the playoffs.

Finally, he expects to see the Sox and Twins battle the rest of the year, and he said not to write off the AL Central as a wild card factor. He thinks that the Tigers will come back to earth and the Royals will begin selling (Randa and Beltran) and this will bring a lot of wins to the better teams.

Fisk Fan
05-28-2004, 08:43 AM
I almost drove off the road when I heard what Gammons had to say. He hardly has anything good to say about the White Sox, but I didn't hear a negative thought from his this A.M. either. He even mentioned us in the same sentence with the Red Sox.... We must be playing well.

:boston

"There shouldn't be a MLB team within 100 miles of Wrigley Field...."

SoxxoS
05-28-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
However, he commented that he doesn't think the 5th starter is that big of a deal because he only starts 20-25 times a year and that he is not needed in the playoffs.

That is just being stupid, Peter. 25 games is about a 6th of the season. Last I checked, all the games count. The Sox won like 3 games last season in the 5th starter spot (something like that)...who knows what that would have meant.

bigdommer
05-28-2004, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
That is just being stupid, Peter. 25 games is about a 6th of the season. Last I checked, all the games count. The Sox won like 3 games last season in the 5th starter spot (something like that)...who knows what that would have meant.

He also mentioned that you still need to go out and "steal" some of those 25 games. But the Sox don't do that, so they do need a 5th starter.

soxtalker
05-28-2004, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
However, he commented that he doesn't think the 5th starter is that big of a deal because he only starts 20-25 times a year and that he is not needed in the playoffs.

Originally posted by SoxxoS
That is just being stupid, Peter. 25 games is about a 6th of the season. Last I checked, all the games count. The Sox won like 3 games last season in the 5th starter spot (something like that)...who knows what that would have meant.

You are, of course, correct that we need to make it to post season, and we probably need a 5th starter to achieve that. However, it is an interesting point that Gammons makes about the playoffs. We've been so focused on just trying to get to the playoffs, but the conditions are slightly different.

batmanZoSo
05-28-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
You are, of course, correct that we need to make it to post season, and we probably need a 5th starter to achieve that. However, it is an interesting point that Gammons makes about the playoffs. We've been so focused on just trying to get to the playoffs, but the conditions are slightly different.

We don't need a fifth starter, we need a number one. Not to cheapen Buehrle and Loaiza who are both guys that can help take you all the way, but we need someone with playoff experience that can shut a team out in the playoffs. Like Colon, only...good Colon, not fat, injured, underacheiving Colon.

I don't think I want Garland or Schoe being our third starter in the playoffs...you need three top flight pitchers and those two are not a safe bet right now. Garland has shown that he's not quite there yet and Schoeneweis has some more to prove. Neither looked good in their last outings.

We need someone to match up with Pedro, Mulder, Brown, etc. Buehrle and Loaiza are worthy candidates, but I firmly believe that you need three, not just two. Unless people are happy with the Division. We're already good enough to win the division, it's time to go for the throat...at least make an effort. Always go in with a legit shot at going all the way.

soxruleEP
05-28-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Not to cheapen Buehrle and Loaiza who are both guys that can help take you all the way, but we need someone with playoff experience that can shut a team out in the playoffs. .

Buehrle has given up one run in his last four outings.

When are we going to let this guy be a number one? He has had one bad stretch in his career (first half of last year).

jabrch
05-28-2004, 12:14 PM
We need a #1 or a #2, either way.

Iguana775
05-28-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
We need a #1 or a #2, either way.

Randy Johnson?

Lip Man 1
05-28-2004, 12:41 PM
See what happens when you win folks? You start getting publicity!

The Sox need another starting pitcher...period. I don't care if it's for the front end, back end or middle.

By the way the Sox 5th starters are 3-17 combined the past two years.

Lip

pearso66
05-28-2004, 12:45 PM
I like Buehrle against Mulder, I don't think Mark has ever lost that game :D:














I meant Buehrle not Mulder :)

Win1ForMe
05-28-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
We don't need a fifth starter, we need a number one. Not to cheapen Buehrle and Loaiza who are both guys that can help take you all the way, but we need someone with playoff experience that can shut a team out in the playoffs. Like Colon, only...good Colon, not fat, injured, underacheiving Colon.

I don't think I want Garland or Schoe being our third starter in the playoffs...you need three top flight pitchers and those two are not a safe bet right now. Garland has shown that he's not quite there yet and Schoeneweis has some more to prove. Neither looked good in their last outings.

We need someone to match up with Pedro, Mulder, Brown, etc. Buehrle and Loaiza are worthy candidates, but I firmly believe that you need three, not just two. Unless people are happy with the Division. We're already good enough to win the division, it's time to go for the throat...at least make an effort. Always go in with a legit shot at going all the way.

I agree with everything you say, we most certainly need an ace to go deep in the playoffs. The only problem seems to be that none of these type pitchers seem to be available. Personally, I don't consider Freddy Garcia a true ace/#1 starter. He's a nice pitcher (on par with Buehrle) but looking at his home/road splits and low Ground ball/Flyball ratio, I tend to believe he wouldn't be the ace we need if he were to pitch outside of Safeco. I'll be very interested in seeing how he does in Fenway this Saturday and against our hitters next week.

Kris Benson, on the other hand, just flat out sucks.

LASOXFAN
05-28-2004, 01:20 PM
I still can't stand the guy. He was just pandering to the Chicago media. Come on, don't be fooled, this is the same guy who suggested the White Sox should be contracted, not the Twins. And most recently he snubbed Uribe on his list of surprise players this season snub (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1807447)

Gammons and Berman are making it very hard to watch ESPN.

DSpivack
05-28-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
I like Buehrle against Mulder, I don't think Mark has ever lost that game :D:

I meant Buehrle not Mulder :)

You go to that game last year? I'm pretty sure it was Buehrle-Mulder at USCF in early August, Sunday afternoon game, hot day. Sox beat A's something like 1-0. Very good game, if you like 2 pitchers just going after it, ran only like 2 hours, as well.

jeremyb1
05-28-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
That is just being stupid, Peter. 25 games is about a 6th of the season. Last I checked, all the games count. The Sox won like 3 games last season in the 5th starter spot (something like that)...who knows what that would have meant.

I disagree. If you're talking about the difference between who we've been marching out and Randy Johnson or Freddy Garcia that will make a big difference in 25 games but if you're talking about simply an average to above average five there won't be that much of a difference because in general teams don't have pitcher like Schoeneweis or Garland in the fifth spot. The difference between a guy with a 4.7 ERA and a 6 ERA is probably a 3-4 win difference at most over those 25 games.

iwannago
05-28-2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
See what happens when you win folks? You start getting publicity!

The Sox need another starting pitcher...period. I don't care if it's for the front end, back end or middle.

By the way the Sox 5th starters are 3-17 combined the past two years.

Lip

That 3-17 record comes out to 15%. Based on that the 25 games that a 5th started is used in 2004 would give us a record of 4-21.
Thats not 1st place material.



:(:

SoxxoS
05-28-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
That 3-17 record comes out to 15%. Based on that the 25 games that a 5th started is used in 2004 would give us a record of 4-21.
Thats not 1st place material.



:(:


But the 25 games don't matter.

TheBull19
05-28-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I disagree. If you're talking about the difference between who we've been marching out and Randy Johnson or Freddy Garcia that will make a big difference in 25 games but if you're talking about simply an average to above average five there won't be that much of a difference because in general teams don't have pitcher like Schoeneweis or Garland in the fifth spot. The difference between a guy with a 4.7 ERA and a 6 ERA is probably a 3-4 win difference at most over those 25 games.

The difference between a playoff team and an also-ran is also usually about 3-4 games. If you can get one guy to make a 3-4 game difference that's a pretty big deal if you ask me.

hempsox
05-28-2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
But the 25 games don't matter.

Jerry...is that you using Soxxos profile to post.

:jerry
"Damn...nabbed again! All I'm saying is the first 3/4 of the season is just for evaluating talent."

jeremyb1
05-28-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by TheBull19
The difference between a playoff team and an also-ran is also usually about 3-4 games. If you can get one guy to make a 3-4 game difference that's a pretty big deal if you ask me.

True but my estimate was 3-4 games compared to the production we've had so far which has been dreadful. Simple regression to the mean should improve our pitching from the fifth spot. It's really hard to pitch with an ERA of 8 over the course of an entire season.

MRKARNO
05-28-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
True but my estimate was 3-4 games compared to the production we've had so far which has been dreadful. Simple regression to the mean should improve our pitching from the fifth spot. It's really hard to pitch with an ERA of 8 over the course of an entire season.

Hell I think Rauch could go out there and at least post a 5.5 ERA. That would be a lot better than what we got going now.

Lip Man 1
05-28-2004, 11:32 PM
Jeremy says: "is probably a 3-4 win difference at most over those 25 games."

Let's see...the Sox lost the division by four games in 2003.

and if you go back far enought you find the Sox lost the pennent by one game in 1964 and by I think three games in 1967.

Little things mean a lot...you can't basically be throwing away any chance to win those 25 games. That's what's been happening the past two years.

Lip

SoxBoy14
05-28-2004, 11:38 PM
I still hate Gammons, although I'm very surprised with his sudden positive comments about the Sox. But further down the road he'll forget all about the Sox and start ripping on the AL Central again. Thank god Gammons isn't a regular on SC or I'd have nothing to watch every morning and late night.