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View Full Version : Kenny vs. Schuler


32nd&Wallace
05-26-2004, 11:55 AM
I know there are things about Kenny that people don't like. Arrogance, impuslivness. But you have to admit, he is a total contrast from Schu. Case in point, his comments in the SunTimes where he said he is not afraid to sacrifice propsects for a World Series title.
Can you imagine Schu pulling off what Kenny did last year...His idea of pulling the trigger in 2000 was to get Ken Hill. And the Brook Fordyce trade..please...did we really need Harold Baines...
When you talk about mortgaging the farm, how ascertainable are baseball prospects anyway?
I have a feeling Kenny is going to do something BIG before July!

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2004, 11:58 AM
Hopefully by "big" he means Livan Hernandez, Steve Finley and a closer.

jabrch
05-26-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
Hopefully by "big" he means Livan Hernandez, Steve Finley and a closer.

just give me the first two, and I'll be thrilled. Our closers really have not been much a problem lately.

rahulsekhar
05-26-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
Hopefully by "big" he means Livan Hernandez, Steve Finley and a closer.

Not sure if he really qualifies, but Mantei's on the outs in 'Zona, and if e were willing to take on his contract, I bet we could get him+Finely relatively cheaply.

Of course, if he keeps blowing saves for us like he did in Zona, then it doesn't do us any good.

MRKARNO
05-26-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
Hopefully by "big" he means Livan Hernandez, Steve Finley and a closer.

My realistic wish list (aka that wont break the bank, our team or our farm system too badly) currently includes Livan, Finley and Braden Looper

SoxOnTop
05-26-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
My realistic wish list (aka that wont break the bank, our team or our farm system too badly) currently includes Livan, Finley and Braden Looper

What's with the Livan lovefest? He consistantly gives up more hits than innings pitched and has a career ERA of 4.16. And lets not forget that he pitches in the NL so his stats will be even more bloated in the AL. Chances are that if we pick him up we will have to overpay and he'll spend the rest of the year moving his ERA back up to his career average.

If we're going to overpay, lets overpay for a bonafide stud. We need a stopper at the top of the rotation that opponents fear. This rotation reminds me way too much of the 2000 rotation. Solid, yet unspectacular pitching with ERA's around 4.00 running four pitchers deep. Randy Johnson, if he is available and willing to move, should be our top target.

Irishsox1
05-26-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by 32nd&Wallace
And the Brook Fordyce trade..please...did we really need Harold Baines...

Actually, the Brook Fordyce trade brought over Harold Baines and Charles Johnson. Charles was the reason the trade was made. Charles turned out to be a really good pick up. In 44 games with the Sox, he hit .326 with 10 HR's and 36 RBI's and he brought his gold glove behind the plate. Not that I'm defending Shu, but he deserves credit for that move.

jeremyb1
05-26-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by 32nd&Wallace
I know there are things about Kenny that people don't like. Arrogance, impuslivness. But you have to admit, he is a total contrast from Schu. Case in point, his comments in the SunTimes where he said he is not afraid to sacrifice propsects for a World Series title.
Can you imagine Schu pulling off what Kenny did last year...His idea of pulling the trigger in 2000 was to get Ken Hill.

...and All-Star Charles Johnson for a song. I like the Kenny always wants to win but sometimes he seems to go out of his way to make moves almost for P.R. purposes when we really don't have that much of a shot. His obsession with veterans (Clayton, Ritchie) for the sake of having veterans is well documented.

SoxOnTop
05-26-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
Actually, the Brook Fordyce trade brought over Harold Baines and Charles Johnson. Charles was the reason the trade was made. Charles turned out to be a really good pick up. In 44 games with the Sox, he hit .326 with 10 HR's and 36 RBI's and he brought his gold glove behind the plate. Not that I'm defending Shu, but he deserves credit for that move.

Too bad we needed a pitcher to replace Cal Eldred who was hurting and not more firepower from behind the plate. I'll give Schu credit for getting a productive player, but not for getting us what we needed to go deep in the playoffs.

SoxxoS
05-26-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Too bad we needed a pitcher to replace Cal Eldred who was hurting and not more firepower from behind the plate. I'll give Schu credit for getting a productive player, but not for getting us what we needed to go deep in the playoffs.

We should have got David Wells in 2000...we were one year late.

doublem23
05-26-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
just give me the first two, and I'll be thrilled. Our closers really have not been much a problem lately.

You can never have enough pitching. I'll take three more relievers if we can get 'em.

MRKARNO
05-26-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Randy Johnson, if he is available and willing to move, should be our top target.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1809770

I hope this article explains to you why we have a zero chance in hell of getting Randy Johnson and why we shouldn't even be looking towards that direction. The thing about Livan is that he comes cheap in terms of money and he has a contract that goes for 3.5 more years, plus he's sort of like a Bartolo Colon type of pitcher (one that will give you 220ish innings per year). He is a great fit for us IMO. If we want a clear no. 1 starter, we're gonna have to give up a ton to get one and pay a ton in terms of money to that player. It just doesnt make sense for the Sox to do that and who exactly besides Johnson do you think we can get? Dont bother mentioning anyone from Oakland, Boston, NY, Anaheim, Cubs, Houston or Marlins because none of these teams are trading away anything.

samram
05-26-2004, 04:24 PM
One big difference seems to be that KW does his job at the office, while Schu seemed to do his job from the golf course.

SoxxoS
05-26-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by samram
One big difference seems to be that KW does his job at the office, while Schu seemed to do his job from the golf course.

:KW

"And the buffet table."

DickAllen72
05-26-2004, 06:39 PM
For the record, I like KW.

I hope one of the things he does is gets us a major league third baseman.

Of course we need another starter and a left handed bat. We also need more speed. Konerko and Crede on the same team really slows the team down. And Crede doesn't even hustle!

davidleeroth
05-26-2004, 06:41 PM
kenny may be likeable now, but when we dont win the world series this year and we have no prospects in 2 years, who is going to look good?

Daver
05-26-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by davidleeroth
kenny may be likeable now, but when we dont win the world series this year and we have no prospects in 2 years, who is going to look good?


You have got to be kidding me.

lowesox
05-26-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Daver
You have got to be kidding me.

Why is this such a laughable post? You could at least explain yourself. Not only does davidleeroth have a great screenname, he's also got a decent point. Our system isn't exactly exploding with star prospects (OFs aside) any more.

Daver, you follow our minor league players closely, is he that wrong? Are there a lot of up and coming prized prospects we don't know about?

Daver
05-26-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Why is this such a laughable post? You could at least explain yourself. Not only does davidleeroth have a great screenname, he's also got a decent point. Our system isn't exactly exploding with star prospects (OFs aside) any more.

Daver, you follow our minor league players closely, is he that wrong? Are there a lot of up and coming prized prospects we don't know about?

Prize prospects?

What do you consider a prize prospect?

There is a lot of talent in the lower levels of the system, where you need to have a lot of talent, not all of them are All Star talents, but MLB talent level players.

I'd watch for names like Robert Valido, Micah Schnurstein, Ricardo Nanita, Mike Morse, and Brandon McCarthy to name a few.

pearso66
05-26-2004, 11:24 PM
I don't know much about our minor league players, but I don't think we've given much up in the form of value the past year. Sure we gave up Royce Ring, ok he's a reliever, Id rather have a starter. Any other big names I'm missing? Not to mention he went out and got Cotts and Adkins.

rahulsekhar
05-26-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by davidleeroth
kenny may be likeable now, but when we dont win the world series this year and we have no prospects in 2 years, who is going to look good?

Based on what? About the only guy I'd really want back that's been dealt is Kip Wells. You really missing Aaron Myette, Josh Rupe, & Josh Fogg? Maybe Royce Ring was your "uber-prospect"?

The big names (sans Wells) are all still here - Borchard, Rauch, Honel (and Garland, Crede) and they've been joined by Sweeney, Anderson, Reed at the top.

Factor in the minor leaguers he's acquired (Diaz, Olivo, Cotts, Adkins off the top of my head), and I'd say outside of Kip Wells, he's had a huge net positive impact on the farm system in trades.

Can we finally lay the "KW is stripping our farm system" rhetoric to rest? Despite what he said about trading prospects, he has shown that while he'll make deals, he's not going to foolishly trade everyoneaway for some magic beans. He did that ONCE and hasn't since. Get over it already.

Vernam
05-27-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Can we finally lay the "KW is stripping our farm system" rhetoric to rest? Despite what he said about trading prospects, he has shown that while he'll make deals, he's not going to foolishly trade everyoneaway for some magic beans. He did that ONCE and hasn't since. Get over it already.

I agree completely. And speaking just for myself, I wouldn't complain (much!) if they suck for ten years after winning the Series this year. KW can trade Reed and Borchard if it gets us a World Championship.

I used to think whichever team -- Sox or Cubs -- wins the Series first would rule the town for a long time. One sign of the Sox' PR problems is that even a Series win wouldn't get them out of the woods now, IMO. In fact, if they somehow win this year and the Cubs tank, it could cause them a _lot_ of trouble w/ the Cubune due to the expectations that have been raised on the North Side. Again, though, a nice problem to have!