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Daver
05-25-2004, 11:26 PM
That sucked.

Nard
05-25-2004, 11:28 PM
Terrible, but zero damage done. The standings are exactly the same, except for KC moving up a game, oh God no!! :o: :o: :D: .

Looks like we're not the only team that had some trouble with Tampa.

balboner
05-25-2004, 11:29 PM
Tonight's game was managed terribly by Guillen. Here are some of the many errors he made:

- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate. Olivo has pounded lhp this year, and you can survive having your back-up catcher come in for the 9th inning. The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.

-Not having Marte come in to face Blalock in the 9th. Those extra runs are important, and letting Mr. BB, Politte pitch to Blalock was bad.

-Leaving Schoeneweis in to face Young in the 7th. SS's pitch count was high to start that inning, and facing a great righty in young was a recipe for disaster...and it was.

-Having Rowand bunt in the first inning. If you're going to play for one run, then he should have had the infield in when Teixeira had the chopper to Crede, and should have had Konerko throw home in the 9th.

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 11:30 PM
Look what happens when I don't make the official game day thread, the sox got on a hot streak once I started those and then I don't start it today and everything goes bad. Coincidence I think not.

Cubbiesuck13
05-25-2004, 11:30 PM
good looking crowd from the hightlight on SC. an off night, but no damaged done. lets continue the trend of coming back after loosing the first game of the series.

Cubbiesuck13
05-25-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Look what happens when I don't make the official game day thread, the sox got on a hot streak once I started those and then I don't start it today and everything goes bad. Coincidence I think not.


guy, i am so sorry. like i said, no more for me. AND I INJURED MAGS! i blame myself.

Hondo
05-25-2004, 11:32 PM
I posted this earlier in the gameday thread.

If we can get through this tough homestand in first or still tied then I would be happy.

Maggs goes out with an injury and left some runners on base tonight.

Bullpen wasn't great.

But we hardly ever go down quietly in the bottom of the ninth.

Not trying to be a pollyanna but I'm not too upset.

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
guy, i am so sorry. like i said, no more for me. AND I INJURED MAGS! i blame myself.
Haha I'm just joking around. I didn't make the thread tonight so you did what you had to. :)

batmanZoSo
05-25-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
I posted this earlier in the gameday thread.

If we can get through this tough homestand in first or still tied then I would be happy.

Maggs goes out with an injury and left some runners on base tonight.

Bullpen wasn't great.

But we hardly ever go down quietly in the bottom of the ninth.

Not trying to be a pollyanna but I'm not too upset.

If we can get through October 1st still tied for first I'll be happy. If we get through October 2nd in 1st I'll be very happy.

Cubbiesuck13
05-25-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Haha I'm just joking around. I didn't make the thread tonight so you did what you had to. :)

i don't know if i will get over this one. i blew it.






stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
:chunks

chisox06
05-25-2004, 11:38 PM
I think Rogers is one of the few pitchers Jose should try righty. That was horrendous, along with Crede's at bats other than the double.

StockdaleForVeep
05-26-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by balboner

-Having Rowand bunt in the first inning. If you're going to play for one run, then he should have had the infield in when Teixeira had the chopper to Crede, and should have had Konerko throw home in the 9th.


Can you really blame OZ for konerko goin to second rather than home? That is like blaming politte for walking a batter.

soltrain21
05-26-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
That is like blaming politte for walking a batter.


Who else are we going to blame if he walks someone? Do you mean we shouldn't blame Ozzie for Pollitte walking someone?

illiniwhitesox
05-26-2004, 12:16 AM
The walks are what killed me. I can deal with getting shelled, although it does put me in a foul mood at times.

But to continously put runners on the bases without having them prove they can hit your stuff!! It was maddening.

Brian26
05-26-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by balboner
- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate.

Jose looked overmatched against Rogers all night.

joecrede
05-26-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Tonight's game was managed terribly by Guillen. Here are some of the many errors he made:

- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate. Olivo has pounded lhp this year, and you can survive having your back-up catcher come in for the 9th inning. The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.

-Not having Marte come in to face Blalock in the 9th. Those extra runs are important, and letting Mr. BB, Politte pitch to Blalock was bad.

-Leaving Schoeneweis in to face Young in the 7th. SS's pitch count was high to start that inning, and facing a great righty in young was a recipe for disaster...and it was.

-Having Rowand bunt in the first inning. If you're going to play for one run, then he should have had the infield in when Teixeira had the chopper to Crede, and should have had Konerko throw home in the 9th.

Agree 100%

MRKARNO
05-26-2004, 12:34 AM
The Sox havent been to hot in the first game of a series, but in the second two, they've been pretty darn good and they've dropped the last game of a series just twice all year. With the pitching matchups (Loaiza vs Benoit and Buehrle ve Drese) I would think we have a very good chance to take the next two.

SEALgep
05-26-2004, 12:41 AM
The game could have gone better, but I was impressed with the entertainment at the game. I believe the new marketing director has already made some real good moves that I've noticed. The Blues Brothers made a lap in their car and then sang for the pregame. Also the music was updated for spots in the game and really captured the moment IMO. For instance, the song We need to take some action came on when we had an opportunity to tie the game with a homerun. Anyhow, I noticed a difference for the better. Hopefully there is more to come, which I expect with more time to implement some more ideas. So far so good from where I stand. Other than all the dumb fights, but I'll hardly blame the marketing director for that.

HomeFish
05-26-2004, 12:41 AM
Valentin was horrible, Crede seems to be emulating him, and the milkman delivered. Game over.

At least the Astros, Reds, and Devil Rays won.

HomeFish
05-26-2004, 12:46 AM
Is it me, or did Valentin swing at the exact same outside pitch for all of his strikeouts? Crede seemed to fall for it too at least once near the end of the game.

chisoxmike
05-26-2004, 12:48 AM
Bad game to watch and bad game to be at.

It felt like the game would never end.

Although, I did like sitting in the Club Level, it was the first time I've been up there in a few years.

Sox never had a clutch hit in the entire game, lots of runners left on. The 7th inning (I think) we had men on 1st and 2nd, one out and NOTHING! Pissed me off.

And the losers sitting in the outfield need to stop fighting. Its going to get out one of these days and make us look bad. I guess from what I hear its mostly Cubs fans becuse its a 1/2 price night and Cubs are out of town. Man, do those people have any life???

mdep524
05-26-2004, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Tonight's game was managed terribly by Guillen. Here are some of the many errors he made:

- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate. Olivo has pounded lhp this year, and you can survive having your back-up catcher come in for the 9th inning. The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.

-Not having Marte come in to face Blalock in the 9th. Those extra runs are important, and letting Mr. BB, Politte pitch to Blalock was bad.

-Leaving Schoeneweis in to face Young in the 7th. SS's pitch count was high to start that inning, and facing a great righty in young was a recipe for disaster...and it was.

-Having Rowand bunt in the first inning. If you're going to play for one run, then he should have had the infield in when Teixeira had the chopper to Crede, and should have had Konerko throw home in the 9th.

Some really good points here.

Jose looked totally incompetent up there tonight- no way should he have batted in that situation.

Also, having Rowand bunt in the 1st was stupid. I understand playing for one run in certain situations, but...
-They are playing the best hitting team in the AL- they're not going to beat Texas 1-0 anyway.
-Rowand is hot swinging the bat right now.
-Rowand is NOT a good bunter (Sunday's beauty notwithstanding)

Also, Ozzie was inconsistent with his pitching match ups. He left Politte in to pitch to the dangerous Blaylock but pulled him a few batters later when Gary Matthews Jr came up??

joeynach
05-26-2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Tonight's game was managed terribly by Guillen. Here are some of the many errors he made:

- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate. Olivo has pounded lhp this year, and you can survive having your back-up catcher come in for the 9th inning. The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.

-Not having Marte come in to face Blalock in the 9th. Those extra runs are important, and letting Mr. BB, Politte pitch to Blalock was bad.

-Leaving Schoeneweis in to face Young in the 7th. SS's pitch count was high to start that inning, and facing a great righty in young was a recipe for disaster...and it was.

-Having Rowand bunt in the first inning. If you're going to play for one run, then he should have had the infield in when Teixeira had the chopper to Crede, and should have had Konerko throw home in the 9th.

First of all you only have one other catcher on the bench. And thats your right handed bat. You bring in olivio in the 8th to pinch hit for valentin then sandy has to come out in the 9th. Now what if something happend to olivio behind the plate and he takes a hard hit or a hard foul ball, then you have no catcher for the rest of the game. Not very smart. Ozzie manages with his gut. Most of the time he has shown himself to be right as we have a winning record. Sometimes he is wrong, like tonight when he though SS could keep going and politte could get those outs. Its not a big deal. When you win 90 ballgames you lose 72. Ozzie is still on pace to win almost 100. RELAX!!

SoxxoS
05-26-2004, 12:57 AM
I have one thing to say about this game:

If Ozzie is going to play the "platoon" game before the game starts...he must do it during the game as well. If you are going to start Rowand against lefties...then he might need to get pulled in the 8th inning if a righty is on the mound. If you are going to play Valentin against lefties to start the game...when it comes to crunch time, you got to pinch hit for him in the late innings against lefties. That is how it's got to be. You can't do it one way and not the other.

cbrownson13
05-26-2004, 12:58 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by balboner
[B]Tonight's game was managed terribly by Guillen. Here are some of the many errors he made:

- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate. Olivo has pounded lhp this year, and you can survive having your back-up catcher come in for the 9th inning. The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.

The funny thing is...did anyone noticed Hawk and DJ's comments when this situation came up? I believe it was DJ who said, "We only have one righty on the bench, and that's Miguel, and we can't use him." Unless he was being sarcastic, which I don't think he is clever enough to be, I have to wonder why he said that. Why not use him? Are we planning on Sandy being hurt within the next inning?

ode to veeck
05-26-2004, 12:59 AM
beat by the milkman of all things

jabrch
05-26-2004, 01:00 AM
When I saw Jose in the lineup I was unhappy. Ozzie better learn quickly that he is brutal vs lefties. Since we have Oakland coming up soon, he better learn VERY QUICKLY or else we will have a hard time vs the As.

RedPinStripes
05-26-2004, 01:00 AM
There are times when Jose looks more overmatched then a rookie would. If anyone thinks Jose needs a contracts extention (and i know 1 person on this board does, ) You must be smoking some bad Crack. Jose is a good baserunner. That's about all i see in him this year. He's an average SS. And i say average because he gets to a lot of balls most SS's would give up on, but may boot a routine grounder.

They're paying this guy over 5 mill this year. Guys like him, Konerko and Lee are the reasons why we dont have a 5th starter, CF, and are stuck with billy Koch. Overpaid players that cant be moved to make room for what we need.

:chunks

HomeFish
05-26-2004, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
beat by the milkman of all things

Guess what customized jersey I ordered at Grandstand just before the game?

"So, Herbert Perry was your man?"
"Yeah, he was. He's in town tonight, too, but I'm not sure if he's playing."

I think he might have been playing...

mdep524
05-26-2004, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by chisoxmike
Bad game to watch and bad game to be at.

It felt like the game would never end.

What a slooooow game. Over 3 hours. Schoeneweis and Rogers looked like Steve Trachel out there tonight, I could barely stand it, and a couple guys around me almost fell asleep (only to be startled by the "cheering" for the fights). Really makes you appreciate the pace of Buehrle even more.

Meixner007
05-26-2004, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by joeynach
First of all you only have one other catcher on the bench. And thats your right handed bat. You bring in olivio in the 8th to pinch hit for valentin then sandy has to come out in the 9th. Now what if something happend to olivio behind the plate and he takes a hard hit or a hard foul ball, then you have no catcher for the rest of the game. Not very smart. Ozzie manages with his gut. Most of the time he has shown himself to be right as we have a winning record. Sometimes he is wrong, like tonight when he though SS could keep going and politte could get those outs. Its not a big deal. When you win 90 ballgames you lose 72. Ozzie is still on pace to win almost 100. RELAX!!

Originally posted by balboner

The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.


This right here refutes your point. What if we tied it and miguel got hurt in the 10th or something? Then who catches. Just because it could happen an inning later shouldn't refute your point...and shouldn't dictate ozzie's thinking.

SoxxoS
05-26-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
What a slooooow game. Over 3 hours. Schoeneweis and Rogers looked like Steve Trachel out there tonight, I could barely stand it, and a couple guys around me almost fell asleep (only to be startled by the "cheering" for the fights). Really makes you appreciate the pace of Buehrle even more.

TIVO the game. It's over in about an hour. Best invention since the internet.

dirty-mutt
05-26-2004, 01:23 AM
ozzie messed up...

I think, or maybe would like to hope that he will learn from all this

he is after all a first time manager

Meixner007
05-26-2004, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by dirty-mutt
ozzie messed up...

I think, or maybe would like to hope that he will learn from all this

he is after all a first time manager

Screw that...he's been in the game for many many years. If joe-schmoes can realize this, he sure as hell should realize this.

JRIG
05-26-2004, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
When I saw Jose in the lineup I was unhappy. Ozzie better learn quickly that he is brutal vs lefties. Since we have Oakland coming up soon, he better learn VERY QUICKLY or else we will have a hard time vs the As.

Who would you suggest play? Willie Harris, who is worse than Valentin against LHP?

Harris is .162/.215/.162 against lefties in his career.

batmanZoSo
05-26-2004, 01:32 AM
Valentin shouldn't have played today, but he had to because no Willie. It's clear that Valentin should be benched vs. lefty starters.

ode to veeck
05-26-2004, 01:39 AM
TIVO the game. It's over in about an hour. Best invention since the internet.

The down side is TIVO halves the beer consumption during games.

batmanZoSo
05-26-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
The Sox havent been to hot in the first game of a series, but in the second two, they've been pretty darn good and they've dropped the last game of a series just twice all year. With the pitching matchups (Loaiza vs Benoit and Buehrle ve Drese) I would think we have a very good chance to take the next two.

We have to beat Wa-keen Ben-wah. I think Drese has given us fits in the past. You know one of those suck ass pitchers who have no trouble breezing through our lineup?

ode to veeck
05-26-2004, 01:46 AM
At least the Twinkies lay down in Tampa today. Even though Tampa is 3-17 on the road, they're 12-11 at home to date. Kill them Twinks again tommorow!

Rudy Law
05-26-2004, 01:59 AM
Hey..You have to file this under a can't win them all game....they always struggle against Rogers....and Schoinweiss(sp) has been pitching lights out latley...he was due for a bad game.....and the Sox were hitting the ball hard, and even when they were down four they were still in it....They come back tommorrow with Loazia..and pitcher who isn't so tuff on them.....as long a they win the series.....


Does anybody else really hope they get Freddy Garcia?

batmanZoSo
05-26-2004, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Rudy Law
Hey..You have to file this under a can't win them all game....they always struggle against Rogers....and Schoinweiss(sp) has been pitching lights out latley...he was due for a bad game.....and the Sox were hitting the ball hard, and even when they were down four they were still in it....They come back tommorrow with Loazia..and pitcher who isn't so tuff on them.....as long a they win the series.....


Does anybody else really hope they get Freddy Garcia?

I agree with everything there...welcome aboard.

This was just a garbage game. They didn't do anything right. This is why in baseball, even if you're great, you lose a lot of games. You play every day, you're gonna have bad days. This isn't football where you prepare all week for one game.

jeremyb1
05-26-2004, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
When I saw Jose in the lineup I was unhappy. Ozzie better learn quickly that he is brutal vs lefties. Since we have Oakland coming up soon, he better learn VERY QUICKLY or else we will have a hard time vs the As.

As has been stated already this is a roster construction problem not a lineup problem. We have three players on the roster that can be used to form our middle infield and two of them are brutal against lefties. I don't see how playing Harris is any better because he's worse if anything. Ozzie doesn't have any other options here.

Also, re: Jose's at bats vs. Rogers tonight, if you struggle against lefties, you'll struggle against a finesse lefty like Rogers more than anyone. Jose hit relatively well against lefties Sunday, I think he's still probably a better option than Harris in that situation and I don't think he hits all lefties as poorly as Rogers.

jeremyb1
05-26-2004, 03:07 AM
I ussually try to play devil's advocate in these types of threads but I agree with most of the criticisms. Bringing out Schoe to start the 7th was atrocious in my opinion. I was shocked to see him on the mound. He'd thrown 115 pitches, what was Ozzie looking for at that point? You're going to have to turn it over to the pen sooner or later you might as well do so while Schoe's arm is still attatched and the reliever that comes in doesn't have to work his way out of a jam.

It's hard for me to understand letting Valentin bat late in any close game against a lefty. I don't know exactly how manager's ussually work the backup catcher situation but I know that I've certainly seen catcher's taken out of the game before. As was pointed out, Ozzie did so in the 9th. The situation is virtually the same with our middle infield. If you pinch hit for Valentin or Harris late in a game and then either of the two middle infielders remaining is injured we have to go to the emergency player. I think it's just a given that you take those risks. If we can't pinch hit for our catcher, SS, or 2B late in the game our bench needs to be reconfigured.

gosox3072
05-26-2004, 03:20 AM
Anyone know why maggs was replaced with gload in the 9th inning when maggs was due up the next inning. Gload ended up grounding into a FC, i would much rather have had maggs up in that situation!

balboner
05-26-2004, 03:59 AM
Another poor item in tonight's game was when Rowand did not steal 2nd base in the 9th inning (they were not holding him on). If he could have stole 2nd, then Gload would have likely had an infield single.
Also, in regards to the argument that you can't use your back-up catcher, you really can't play a game not to lose cause of injury. The Sox had a possible chance to tie it in the 8th, and Ozzie let the player with the least chance of getting on bat (Jose).

Dan Gelo
05-26-2004, 04:38 AM
-Sho "only" had 109 when he came out for the 7th, with the first batter in the 7th he had something like 115. I also could not believe Ozzie brought him back out. With that pitch count and the situation, you would think Ozzie would try to stop them in their tracks. I was raging quietly in my blue seat.

-Valentin looked absolutely bewildered out there. I looked at my scorecard in the 6th and saw he had 3 k's. Which I might add, I was also raging quietly about. Then to top it off, a horrible k with the tying run on. I know he is worse/bad against lefties, but if he can't even put the ball into play, he should be sitting.

-I know Willie's not an upgrade, shown by his stats against lefties, but at least he put the ball in play. He also had the excuse of coming into the game cold, and having no AB's for a week.

Cubbiesuck13
05-26-2004, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by chisoxmike
Bad game to watch and bad game to be at.

It felt like the game would never end.

Although, I did like sitting in the Club Level, it was the first time I've been up there in a few years.

Sox never had a clutch hit in the entire game, lots of runners left on. The 7th inning (I think) we had men on 1st and 2nd, one out and NOTHING! Pissed me off.

And the losers sitting in the outfield need to stop fighting. Its going to get out one of these days and make us look bad. I guess from what I hear its mostly Cubs fans becuse its a 1/2 price night and Cubs are out of town. Man, do those people have any life???

no offense, but does it really matter if there is fights to make us look bad. I am of the opinion that if the media wants to make sox fans look like thugs, they will. if we help them out by having fights, so be it. i like 1/2 price night and so do 9000 others.

SSN721
05-26-2004, 07:43 AM
Valentin looked absolutely brutal last night. As stated above anyone who would resign this guy for 5 mil, or 5 bucks in my opinion, is crazy, he seemed to kill every rally the Sox had. I know that technically isnt true, but he struck out brutally in some very key spots, he had multiple times to redeem himself and just looked awful. I thought trotting SS out in the 7th was also a bad move. As for the rest of the pitching, it certainly didnt look like anyone was having a good night, the whole bullpen looked bad. I am chalking it up to a bad night, except for Valentin, against lefties this is what I expect from him. We always do bad in the first game of series so I am not worried, we will win the next two, probably lose the first game to the Angels and then win the next two. :gulp: :D:

WWIII
05-26-2004, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
Valentin looked absolutely brutal last night. As stated above anyone who would resign this guy for 5 mil, or 5 bucks in my opinion, is crazy, he seemed to kill every rally the Sox had. I know that technically isnt true, but he struck out brutally in some very key spots, he had multiple times to redeem himself and just looked awful.

I felt the same way watching the game last night. I don't care who we had on the bench to pinch hit for him - anyone was better. Jose just did not have it last night. Isn't Gload batting over .400 v. lefties? We needed the runs. Then trot Willie out the next inning to field.

nasox
05-26-2004, 09:46 AM
I disagree about konerko throwing home. How can ozzie control where he throws? AND, it was the ninth and we were already down 3 runs. Play the out, and that is what konerko did, he went for the sure thing.

maurice
05-26-2004, 11:59 AM
:walnuts
"They play me for my outstanding ability to make the initial throw in the all-important 3-6-1 DP, not the 3-2-3 DP."

Mickster
05-26-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
First of all you only have one other catcher on the bench. And thats your right handed bat. You bring in olivio in the 8th to pinch hit for valentin then sandy has to come out in the 9th. Now what if something happend to olivio behind the plate and he takes a hard hit or a hard foul ball, then you have no catcher for the rest of the game. Not very smart.

Originally posted by cbrownson13
- No way should he have let Jose bat in the 8th vs a lefty w/the tying run at the plate. Olivo has pounded lhp this year, and you can survive having your back-up catcher come in for the 9th inning. The fact that Ozzie had Alomar pinch-hit for in the 9th shows he wasnt too concerned with using his other catcher.


Problem is, the backup-backup catcher (in case Olivo and Sandy are both out of the game) is Valentin, the very man you are pinch hitting for. If you pinch hit for Jose using Olivo, you are really screwed should something happen to Miguel. I agree that the chances of this happening are slight.....

All things considered, let's get the next two! Thank God the twinkies lost!