PDA

View Full Version : You Wondered Why We Don't Like Gallas?


TornLabrum
05-25-2004, 10:25 PM
How about this? The attendance to night was in the 22,000 range if I heard it right, and I think Rooney said there were something like 9000 walk up sales today.

Cubbiesuck13
05-25-2004, 10:43 PM
i will take that. why would you fault him for that?

TornLabrum
05-25-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
i will take that. why would you fault him for that?

Because it took 9000 walkups to produce a crowd of 22,000. That means there is a problem in season ticket and advance sales.

Cubbiesuck13
05-25-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Because it took 9000 walkups to produce a crowd of 22,000. That means there is a problem in season ticket and advance sales.

oh

32nd&Wallace
05-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Well...do you think there'd be 22,000 if there was no Half-Price Tuesday?

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
i will take that. why would you fault him for that?

That's easy. The walk ups walked out of the ballpark with no further obligation to support the team. Many of them won't come back again unless they're getting in for half-priced the next time, too, so the Sox have only succeeded in training them to think of Sox baseball as only worth half. It's not too freaking obvious Rob Gallas had no formal training in marketing, is it?

Hell, I would feel a lot better about large walk up crowds for 1/2-priced nights if the 1/2-pricers were instead being given something -- ANYTHING! -- as an inducement to come back to the ballpark again, like a coupon for a second ticket free when they buy 1 ticket to any upcoming Sox game.

White Sox baseball: We have no clue how to sell it, so we cut the price in half.

Idiots.

StockdaleForVeep
05-25-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Because it took 9000 walkups to produce a crowd of 22,000. That means there is a problem in season ticket and advance sales.

Hm, take out that huge walkup amount and my pessimistic attendence guess is more than the crowd. Thats sad indeed.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Hm, take out that huge walkup amount and my pessimistic attendence guess is more than the crowd. Thats sad indeed.

Here's what is sad. On a Tuesday night in late-May the Sox only had 13,000 pay full-price to see the team play. 9000 others came out of loyalty to their wallet or the mild weather. Most won't be back unless they get the same combo platter inducement the next time, too.

Through his own incompetence, Rob Gallas has cheapened his own product. Even the puny 13,000 who *did* show up must be wondering how stupid they were for not getting half-priced tickets, too.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. And very sad, too.

joecrede
05-25-2004, 11:27 PM
Not too mention that the crowd was an embarrassment, in terms of fights, again tonight too.

SoxFan76
05-25-2004, 11:33 PM
Yeah, there were a lot of fights, both physical and verbal. Four collge seat jumpers decided to sit in front of us, and they were pretty annoying. Typical half price night I guess. But I don't think we'd be talking about this if the Sox won.

rahulsekhar
05-25-2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Here's what is sad. On a Tuesday night in late-May the Sox only had 13,000 pay full-price to see the team play. 9000 others came out of loyalty to their wallet or the mild weather. Most won't be back unless they get the same combo platter inducement the next time, too.

Through his own incompetence, Rob Gallas has cheapened his own product. Even the puny 13,000 who *did* show up must be wondering how stupid they were for not getting half-priced tickets, too.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. And very sad, too.

Does anyone else find it sad that on a half price night, with a first place team that just got off of shellacking their main competition 3 out of 4 games in their home stadium (a place that's been a house of horrors in years past)--we only got 22k? Slam Gallas all we want, but IMO that also says something about the lack of Sox fans ability/desire to get out.

(This is where Lip comes in saying that it's JR's fault)
(This is where I come in saying that regardless, it supports his current contention/strategy to spend to available resources and not beyond)
(This is where someone posts the "Not another attendance thread pic)
(etc)

tromcoe
05-25-2004, 11:38 PM
PHG - That was a very good point. Maybe we need to see what would happen if there were no Tues. 1/2 price nights. I know from my point of view however, there are probably quite a few of them walk-ups like me (a Partial holder) that view Mondays and Tuesdays as a great chance to see additional Sox games instead. But lets face it, what could the actual season ticket base be. And I know that now on Tuesdays a lot of 1/2 price tix are available on line so the actual people that paid full price was probably less (10,000).

Rex Hudler
05-26-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Because it took 9000 walkups to produce a crowd of 22,000. That means there is a problem in season ticket and advance sales.

The Sox have a lot bigger problem than blaming Gallas on this. That is a symptom of a much bigger supply/demand issue. Gallas wasn't the only one responsible for creating demand. I don't even believe he was over season ticket sales.

Chisoxfn
05-26-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
That's easy. The walk ups walked out of the ballpark with no further obligation to support the team. Many of them won't come back again unless they're getting in for half-priced the next time, too, so the Sox have only succeeded in training them to think of Sox baseball as only worth half. It's not too freaking obvious Rob Gallas had no formal training in marketing, is it?

Hell, I would feel a lot better about large walk up crowds for 1/2-priced nights if the 1/2-pricers were instead being given something -- ANYTHING! -- as an inducement to come back to the ballpark again, like a coupon for a second ticket free when they buy 1 ticket to any upcoming Sox game.

White Sox baseball: We have no clue how to sell it, so we cut the price in half.

Idiots.
Thats a pretty damn good idea George. You aught to mail it to Boyer. Personally I've never been much of a fan of the whole half price tickets. I think it gives fans incentives not to go on other days. If it were me I'd just lower tickets in general for the entire season and as a whole you don't give fans an incentive to go only on a certain day, but you make it more affordable for everyone to go and they can use that to go to a few extra games.

batmanZoSo
05-26-2004, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Does anyone else find it sad that on a half price night, with a first place team that just got off of shellacking their main competition 3 out of 4 games in their home stadium (a place that's been a house of horrors in years past)--we only got 22k? Slam Gallas all we want, but IMO that also says something about the lack of Sox fans ability/desire to get out.

(This is where Lip comes in saying that it's JR's fault)
(This is where I come in saying that regardless, it supports his current contention/strategy to spend to available resources and not beyond)
(This is where someone posts the "Not another attendance thread pic)
(etc)

There is not a lack of Sox fans at all. That's an out-and-out lie perpetuated by the media. This team drew 2.5 million for the first four years the new park was opened. The problem is Reinsdorf. He threatened a move, helped cause a strike that ruined a great team's chances, threw away the 97 year, and just generally hasn't shown any dedication to win without first thinking of nothing but straight up profits. A lot of people won't go because of him. But not all of the cheap stuff is his fault because he has shareholders to answer to. We need a single owner to buy this team with his own money. With just a new owner alone, attendance would probably go up 5%, and with dedication to winning we would no longer have an attendance problem.

Cubbiesuck13
05-26-2004, 06:17 AM
i am confused. did we not have a fights at the beloved old comiskey bleachers? what is the big deal? perception? safety? from what i gather the fights are being blownup a bit and it is not like if we had no fights the media would suddenly be kind to us.

as for 1/2 price night, i like it and apparently so do at least 9,000 others. when you get people to the park, for any price, they spend money elsewhere.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-26-2004, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
The Sox have a lot bigger problem than blaming Gallas on this. That is a symptom of a much bigger supply/demand issue. Gallas wasn't the only one responsible for creating demand. I don't even believe he was over season ticket sales.

Of course the source of the problem is supply/demand. The problem is Gallas exacerbates the problem by ENCOURAGING people not to buy in advance. This is marketing suicide for any season-long entertainment business.

Imagine if the Lyric Opera (who now sell well in excess of 100% of their season tickets) started pricing Tuesday performances at half-price for *walk up customers only*. How long would it be before all those season ticketholders started ringing the box office's phone off the hook, and how long after that before they started turning in their season tickets for the Tuesday bargain deal?

The Lyric Opera took years to build their advanced season ticket business, and they got there going the exact OPPOSITE direction Gallas has led the Sox. He's a marketing moron, I don't care how many goofball single-game promotions he invented. Those don't pay the bills.

gosox41
05-26-2004, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Because it took 9000 walkups to produce a crowd of 22,000. That means there is a problem in season ticket and advance sales.

Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but weren't you (among others) who have been writing in talking about how expensive it is to see a MLB game, especially when there's so many minor league teams in the area?

So they make it cheaper for people ac ouple nights of the week.

I think Gallas sucked as a marketing director to. And I think there is something wrong with the lack of advanced ticket sales. But maybe the lack of advanced season ticket sales has moreto do with the pricing (which by the way is still cheaper then Wrigley) and less to do with Gallas incompetence. at least according to arguments I have seen you and others make in the past, ticket prices is a big issue. Or maybe not.




Bob



Bob

gosox41
05-26-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Of course the source of the problem is supply/demand. The problem is Gallas exacerbates the problem by ENCOURAGING people not to buy in advance. This is marketing suicide for any season-long entertainment business.

Imagine if the Lyric Opera (who now sell well in excess of 100% of their season tickets) started pricing Tuesday performances at half-price for *walk up customers only*. How long would it be before all those season ticketholders started ringing the box office's phone off the hook, and how long after that before they started turning in their season tickets for the Tuesday bargain deal?

The Lyric Opera took years to build their advanced season ticket business, and they got there going the exact OPPOSITE direction Gallas has led the Sox. He's a marketing moron, I don't care how many goofball single-game promotions he invented. Those don't pay the bills.

Any extra tickets available for Lyric Opera shows are available for 1/2 price 1 hour before the show (and this includes Friday's and Saturday's)

Of course one can always go to HotTixx the day of a show and get tickets for a lot of shows in the Chicagoland area for half price. That is if the show is obviously not sold out (sound like a ballpark we know?) Generally these shows tend to be during the week.

I'm not here to argue marketing strategy just to point out that one could get tickets cheaper for shows at the Lyric Opera or other theaters in Chicago.


Bob

PaleHoseGeorge
05-26-2004, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but weren't you (among others) who have been writing in talking about how expensive it is to see a MLB game, especially when there's so many minor league teams in the area?

So they make it cheaper for people ac ouple nights of the week.

I think Gallas sucked as a marketing director to. And I think there is something wrong with the lack of advanced ticket sales. But maybe the lack of advanced season ticket sales has moreto do with the pricing (which by the way is still cheaper then Wrigley) and less to do with Gallas incompetence. at least according to arguments I have seen you and others make in the past, ticket prices is a big issue. Or maybe not.



The Flubs must sell 10-times as many tickets in advance of the game than do our Sox. Furthermore they charge even more per ticket than the Sox charge.

The price of tickets isn't the issue.

Ticket scarcity is the issue and the Sox will never have it as long as they're encouraging people to walk up the day of the game to get a fat discount (with NO further obligation to buy!) they couldn't have gotten any other way (i.e. buying in advance)

This is bass ackwards marketing. It's anti-marketing. It's bull****, and who can really be surprised that the Sox perfected it?

PaleHoseGeorge
05-26-2004, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Any extra tickets available for Lyric Opera shows are available for 1/2 price 1 hour before the show (and this includes Friday's and Saturday's)

Of course one can always go to HotTixx the day of a show and get tickets for a lot of shows in the Chicagoland area for half price. That is if the show is obviously not sold out (sound like a ballpark we know?) Generally these shows tend to be during the week.

I'm not here to argue marketing strategy just to point out that one could get tickets cheaper for shows at the Lyric Opera or other theaters in Chicago.


Bob

The tickets Lyric offers are *resold* tickets. They already sold them once and now they've been returned. The White Sox should be so lucky.

:gallas
"Hey, I cut out the middle man! Just step right up and get 1/2 price direct from the Sox! No further obligation whatsoever! Such a Deal!!! Just don't do something foolish like buy your seat in advance!"

ewokpelts
05-26-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Because it took 9000 walkups to produce a crowd of 22,000. That means there is a problem in season ticket and advance sales.

Remember kiddies...it's all our fault.
Gene

Bobby Thigpen
05-26-2004, 08:05 AM
There is not a lack of Sox fans at all. That's an out-and-out lie perpetuated by the media

You are absolutely insane if you really think that is the case. Sure there isn't a lack of Sox fans on this site, or in your neighborhood, or maybe even in Chicago, but believe me there certainly is a shortage of Sox fans outside of the city. Sox fans outside of the city are almost non existent. I don't care how big Chicago is, you can't support a major league team only hoping to draw from the immediate city and suburbs. Look how many people that follow the Cubs are from the proverbial "Iowa".

The Sox are NOT a major market team in terms of having a following outside of their immediate area. To believe they are is ignoring part of the problem. Take for example the radio networks. The Cubs and Cardinals have huge radio networks that cover multiple states and areas. The Sox are only on like 7-9 stations, some that have very weak signals. If I were to suggest anything marketing wise it would be that they try to build their fan base outside of Chicago. The fan base is simply not there.

As far as the opening years attendances, every ballpark draws when it first opens. I wouldn't necessarily say that the numbers those first years were proof there are a bunch of Sox fans.

ewokpelts
05-26-2004, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by tromcoe
PHG - That was a very good point. Maybe we need to see what would happen if there were no Tues. 1/2 price nights. I know from my point of view however, there are probably quite a few of them walk-ups like me (a Partial holder) that view Mondays and Tuesdays as a great chance to see additional Sox games instead. But lets face it, what could the actual season ticket base be. And I know that now on Tuesdays a lot of 1/2 price tix are available on line so the actual people that paid full price was probably less (10,000).

Just look at wed's attendance for that number tromcoe
gene

Kilroy
05-26-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Ticket scarcity is the issue and the Sox will never have it as long as they're encouraging people to walk up the day of the game to get a fat discount (with NO further obligation to buy!) they couldn't have gotten any other way (i.e. buying in advance)

This is bass ackwards marketing. It's anti-marketing. It's bull****, and who can really be surprised that the Sox perfected it?

the Cubs have product that people want. Be it the team, or the beer garden. That, and that alone, is why they have ticket scarcity. No more, no less. Its certainly not from some tricky marketing.

Tell me, do you think that most of the 9k walkups last night would have bought tix even if there were no half price nights?

Moses_Scurry
05-26-2004, 08:19 AM
Maybe 1/2 night should be scrapped entirely. Maybe they could then have 1/2 price tickets only available as part of a package that includes a couple full price nights. Make Three Game packages with two of them being full price and the third being 1/2 price.

ewokpelts
05-26-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The Flubs must sell 10-times as many tickets in advance of the game than do our Sox. Furthermore they charge even more per ticket than the Sox charge.

The price of tickets isn't the issue.

Ticket scarcity is the issue and the Sox will never have it as long as they're encouraging people to walk up the day of the game to get a fat discount (with NO further obligation to buy!) they couldn't have gotten any other way (i.e. buying in advance)

This is bass ackwards marketing. It's anti-marketing. It's bull****, and who can really be surprised that the Sox perfected it?

George,
I agree. If there was a promo that made you buy 2-4 games, with one or two of them at a discount, then you're on to something. You add value without cheapening the product. Like season tickets. I get a couple of bucks off per game. When you add up the savings, it's like getting a few games free.
Gene

Hangar18
05-26-2004, 08:22 AM
It gets people in the seats.......
and was a nice nite for a ballgame. Glad there werent as many cub/sox fights as last week, much tamer. :gulp:

Kilroy
05-26-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
If there was a promo that made you buy 2-4 games, with one or two of them at a discount, then you're on to something.


Ever heard of Sox 7?

nasox
05-26-2004, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
You are absolutely insane if you really think that is the case. Sure there isn't a lack of Sox fans on this site, or in your neighborhood, or maybe even in Chicago, but believe me there certainly is a shortage of Sox fans outside of the city. Sox fans outside of the city are almost non existent. I don't care how big Chicago is, you can't support a major league team only hoping to draw from the immediate city and suburbs. Look how many people that follow the Cubs are from the proverbial "Iowa".

The Sox are NOT a major market team in terms of having a following outside of their immediate area. To believe they are is ignoring part of the problem. Take for example the radio networks. The Cubs and Cardinals have huge radio networks that cover multiple states and areas. The Sox are only on like 7-9 stations, some that have very weak signals. If I were to suggest anything marketing wise it would be that they try to build their fan base outside of Chicago. The fan base is simply not there.

As far as the opening years attendances, every ballpark draws when it first opens. I wouldn't necessarily say that the numbers those first years were proof there are a bunch of Sox fans.

Most of your post is incorrect and wrong. Some of it are good points, but where you say that many people that follow the cubs are from Iowa, that is very very incorrect. I bet if someone went to Wrigley and took a poll, most people would be from Chicago and its metropolitan area. Assume most people come by "party" busses. Note most, not all, as I realize people do drive hours to go to a baseball game-I know I have. So saying one bus holds 50 people, that would mean 100s of busses to have a sgnificant impact on attendance. And for the cubs, that would mean more tickets availible for their fans to snap up (or their ticket brokers). For the sox, a bigger presence in the midwest and perhaps, Milwaukee (closest AL baseball availible anywhere for Brewer fans), and maybe to Indiana (once again, AL baseball, and actaully MLB baseball) etc. Your point about radio signals is true, but we can all agree that JR is not out to increase our fanbase. His stadium deal rewards low attendance, remember.

And as for Gallas and his half price nights, well, as long as they are here for awhile, and it seems that way, add some more security goddammit. More rowdiness calls for more security. ******* morons

Bobby Thigpen
05-26-2004, 09:08 AM
My point about Iowa was that every person that goes to a Cubs game from out of town is usually labeled as being from the mythical place "Iowa". Most people on here seem to use that as a term to mean anyone not from the Chicagoland area.

While the majority of people at Cubs games may be from Chicago, my point is they draw quite a few people from outside the area to alot of their games, especially in the summer. The Sox do not draw hardly anyone from out of town anytime because their is no fan base outside of Chicago. What would attendance look like with a couple thousand people from outside Chicago there on a daily basis. Besides, you don't have to only go to games to support a team. We're talking marketing and everything here. The Sox presence outside of Chicago is non existent in any of this.

And as far as the half price nights are concerned I think the Sox should keep them. I don't care if it cheapens the product or what. It's getting fannies in the seats that wouldn't be there normally. Besides its a great deal to take people with you that normally wouldn't go to a Sox game.

Jerko
05-26-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Does anyone else find it sad that on a half price night, with a first place team that just got off of shellacking their main competition 3 out of 4 games in their home stadium (a place that's been a house of horrors in years past)--we only got 22k? Slam Gallas all we want, but IMO that also says something about the lack of Sox fans ability/desire to get out.

(This is where Lip comes in saying that it's JR's fault)
(This is where I come in saying that regardless, it supports his current contention/strategy to spend to available resources and not beyond)
(This is where someone posts the "Not another attendance thread pic)
(etc)

This is where Jerko comes in and says maybe if there weren't so many fights every half price night the attendance would be more than 22,000 people! I know you can't stop them all but it's getting old, fast.

rahulsekhar
05-26-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
There is not a lack of Sox fans at all. That's an out-and-out lie perpetuated by the media. This team drew 2.5 million for the first four years the new park was opened. The problem is Reinsdorf. He threatened a move, helped cause a strike that ruined a great team's chances, threw away the 97 year, and just generally hasn't shown any dedication to win without first thinking of nothing but straight up profits. A lot of people won't go because of him. But not all of the cheap stuff is his fault because he has shareholders to answer to. We need a single owner to buy this team with his own money. With just a new owner alone, attendance would probably go up 5%, and with dedication to winning we would no longer have an attendance problem.

You may very well be right, but for any team that's winning, playing with great chemistry and excitement, and has a GM that's acknowledged by most to be aggressive enough to go get reinforcements to come home from a whuppin of their key rival and not draw well, that's sad.

If people are staying home because they think it'll get Reinsdorf to sell, they're fooling themselves and perpetuating the payroll issues of the team. Management has shown that increased attendance leads to increased payroll so since we have a winning, exciting team that's got as good a shot as any to make the playoffs - Let's get out there!!!

And if you do, I'll see you Thursday.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-26-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
....Tell me, do you think that most of the 9k walkups last night would have bought tix even if there were no half price nights?

I think every single one the Sox Fans (or potential Sox Fans) in those 9k walkups could have been induced to come to the ballpark in a manner that didn't require letting them in for half-price without any further obligation to come out to the ballpark.

In fact I bet the Sox could attract more than 9K bargain seekers and get even more full-price customers, too. Naturally the person in charge of creating the ticket plans needs to have a clue, something the Sox haven't had in a long time.

Oh, and of the hard-core 1/2-pricers that absolutely would never come to Sox Park unless they got in for half-price, I'm betting the overwhelming majority of them are Cubs fans and/or getting into fights. By definition these are the very ones who don't give a damn about supporting the Chicago White Sox. Let's stop kidding ourselves about whose butts we need to fill the seats.

ewokpelts
05-26-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Ever heard of Sox 7?

yeah...but it's gone
Gene

Bobby Thigpen
05-26-2004, 01:49 PM
George, putting people in the seats is not solely a Sox issue, it's a baseball issue. Baseball attendance as a whole has sucked for going on a decade now. It just happens that the Sox are rivals with one of the teams able to still draw huge crowds. The only teams that draw huge are ones with big fan bases- Cubs, Yankees, Cardinals, etc., or ones with new parks. Other than those baseball attendance as a whole sucks.

Baseball needs to market itself better to draw in new fans as do the Sox. To think that there are thousands and thousands of Sox fans just sitting at home because they aren't excited about ticket scarcity is crazy. There isn't that many Sox fans out there to begin with. That is this team's and baseball's problem they need to fix.

fquaye149
05-26-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Here's what is sad. On a Tuesday night in late-May the Sox only had 13,000 pay full-price to see the team play. 9000 others came out of loyalty to their wallet or the mild weather.

Quite a few came just because of 1/2 price tickets, but

a.) walk up sales for non-half price games still number in the thousands, and if you were walking up to a game, you'd be stupid to pay more than you had to

b.) if I go to a sox game on half price night, it doesn't mean I was more loyal to my wallet than my team. Maybe tuesday was the best day for me to go to a game. Maybe it was the first home game after a road trip where the sox vaulted to first place. Maybe I wanted to get better seats than i usually can afford

all 22,000 people were there because they wanted to see a baseball game.

The only thing about it that's sad is that only 13,000 own season tickets. I'm glad anytime 9000 people walk up regardless of the reason

PaleHoseGeorge
05-26-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
George, putting people in the seats is not solely a Sox issue, it's a baseball issue. Baseball attendance as a whole has sucked for going on a decade now. It just happens that the Sox are rivals with one of the teams able to still draw huge crowds. The only teams that draw huge are ones with big fan bases- Cubs, Yankees, Cardinals, etc., or ones with new parks. Other than those baseball attendance as a whole sucks.

Baseball needs to market itself better to draw in new fans as do the Sox. To think that there are thousands and thousands of Sox fans just sitting at home because they aren't excited about ticket scarcity is crazy. There isn't that many Sox fans out there to begin with. That is this team's and baseball's problem they need to fix.

Obviously the marketing issue you note is far more acute for the Sox than it is for the Cubs, Yankees, Cardinals and other teams you didn't specifically mention. I'm sure we can I agree on this much?

There aren't enough Sox Fans and that is why the Sox marketing plan needs to address how to create more Sox Fans, above and beyond the catch-all solution of simply fielding a winning team. We're talking within the limited sphere of marketing here, not baseball operations.

If the goal is to attract 9000 people who wouldn't have come out to the ballpark without a savings incentive, I guarantee there are better ways to do it than cutting the price in half for walkup customers. Based on all the Tuesday night fight posts, it's just silly to keep arguing that this stupid promotion is successful for marketing the Sox. Filling the ballpark does not require calling out the Illinois National Guard.

Let's get real...

:hizzoner
"The police are not there to create disorder. The police are there to preserve disorder!"

PaleHoseGeorge
05-26-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
....The only thing about it that's sad is that only 13,000 own season tickets. I'm glad anytime 9000 people walk up regardless of the reason

I doubt the Sox have even 13,000 season ticketholders. With half-price nights for walkups every Monday and Tuesday evening, Sox Marketing is actually *discouraging* advanced ticket sales. That's not sad; it's stupid.

"I'm with stupid" ----------> :gallas

:reinsy
"Hahaha! Not anymore, I'm not!"

:smile:

batmanZoSo
05-26-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
You are absolutely insane if you really think that is the case. Sure there isn't a lack of Sox fans on this site, or in your neighborhood, or maybe even in Chicago, but believe me there certainly is a shortage of Sox fans outside of the city. Sox fans outside of the city are almost non existent. I don't care how big Chicago is, you can't support a major league team only hoping to draw from the immediate city and suburbs. Look how many people that follow the Cubs are from the proverbial "Iowa".

The Sox are NOT a major market team in terms of having a following outside of their immediate area. To believe they are is ignoring part of the problem. Take for example the radio networks. The Cubs and Cardinals have huge radio networks that cover multiple states and areas. The Sox are only on like 7-9 stations, some that have very weak signals. If I were to suggest anything marketing wise it would be that they try to build their fan base outside of Chicago. The fan base is simply not there.

As far as the opening years attendances, every ballpark draws when it first opens. I wouldn't necessarily say that the numbers those first years were proof there are a bunch of Sox fans.

Do you have any idea what it takes to get a widespread fanbase like that? It doesn't happen because of radio signals.

Listen, half the people that go to cub games aren't die hard fans. Those very people could just as easily be going to the cell. No team puts 40,000 true blue die hard fans in the seats every night...or any night. We have enough fans to provide that critical core you need to draw well. We have to win and increase the season ticket sales, and win back those who've abandoned the Cell because of Reinsdorf.

Cubbiesuck13
05-26-2004, 05:03 PM
to change up a quote, if i may, from laurn michaels(snl producer who said 'it is just not cool to watch snl right now' when ratings were terrible) it is just not cool to be a sox fan.

that is the bottom line, in my opinion. unfortunatly it is cool to be a cub fan. part of that would be because of the media, i don't know why else. also, when the cubs were not the 'in' team like they are now, they were always more dominant since the '90's if i remember correctly. bad marketing goes back a long time for the sox. many people, far better than i know more about that. I don't know if you can blame this on one person. but if were to try i would try for JR. he is the final say so, therefor he catches my flak.

TornLabrum
05-26-2004, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but weren't you (among others) who have been writing in talking about how expensive it is to see a MLB game, especially when there's so many minor league teams in the area?

So they make it cheaper for people ac ouple nights of the week.

I think Gallas sucked as a marketing director to. And I think there is something wrong with the lack of advanced ticket sales. But maybe the lack of advanced season ticket sales has moreto do with the pricing (which by the way is still cheaper then Wrigley) and less to do with Gallas incompetence. at least according to arguments I have seen you and others make in the past, ticket prices is a big issue. Or maybe not.

My position has always been that if the Sox want to direct their marketing to families with kids without doing something to increase season ticket/advance sales, they will always lose out to Joliet, Schaumburg, Kane County, and now Gary.

For one thing, look at the reputation these half-price nights are getting. What parent is even going to think about taking his kids to a Sox game when the seats are a war zone?

So, no, I haven't been an advocate of cutting prices to attract families. I'm saying the whole marketing strategy is wrong.

TornLabrum
05-26-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
George, putting people in the seats is not solely a Sox issue, it's a baseball issue. Baseball attendance as a whole has sucked for going on a decade now. It just happens that the Sox are rivals with one of the teams able to still draw huge crowds. The only teams that draw huge are ones with big fan bases- Cubs, Yankees, Cardinals, etc., or ones with new parks. Other than those baseball attendance as a whole sucks.

Baseball needs to market itself better to draw in new fans as do the Sox. To think that there are thousands and thousands of Sox fans just sitting at home because they aren't excited about ticket scarcity is crazy. There isn't that many Sox fans out there to begin with. That is this team's and baseball's problem they need to fix.

Um...where have you been? I don't know about May, but April attendance this year set an all time record...and I don't mean a record low.

Parrothead
05-26-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


The Flubs must sell 10-times as many tickets in advance of the game than do our Sox. Furthermore they charge even more per ticket than the Sox charge.

The price of tickets isn't the issue.

Ticket scarcity is the issue and the Sox will never have it as long as they're encouraging people to walk up the day of the game to get a fat discount (with NO further obligation to buy!) they couldn't have gotten any other way (i.e. buying in advance)

This is bass ackwards marketing. It's anti-marketing. It's bull****, and who can really be surprised that the Sox perfected it?



The cubs and sox are marketing thier product towards different people. Sox = families and cubs = young adults with disposable income. what the sox need is more of these people coming to the games. like some one else said in here, they are losing family people to minor league games. they lost me for about 10 games this year to the minors and i have no family. It just cost alot less. :andy

gosox41
05-26-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The Flubs must sell 10-times as many tickets in advance of the game than do our Sox. Furthermore they charge even more per ticket than the Sox charge.

The price of tickets isn't the issue.

Ticket scarcity is the issue and the Sox will never have it as long as they're encouraging people to walk up the day of the game to get a fat discount (with NO further obligation to buy!) they couldn't have gotten any other way (i.e. buying in advance)

This is bass ackwards marketing. It's anti-marketing. It's bull****, and who can really be surprised that the Sox perfected it?



I agree with the bad marketing job. But people here do complain about ticket prices. Wasn't there even an issue of how the season ticket receipts came out this year?


Bob

gosox41
05-26-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
the Cubs have product that people want. Be it the team, or the beer garden. That, and that alone, is why they have ticket scarcity. No more, no less. Its certainly not from some tricky marketing.

Tell me, do you think that most of the 9k walkups last night would have bought tix even if there were no half price nights?


The Cubs have done a great job marketing their product. If I'm not mistaken the bleachers were built to keep the poorer people from wandering around the ballpark and accessing the 'elite' That's why there is a special entrance to the bleachers and you can't go anywhere else in Wrigley.

The Cubs took this whole 'bleacher bum' idea and marketed the heck out of it to make it the in place. What was once a place for cheap tickets, even 25 years ago at Wrigley is now pretty pricey.


Bob

gosox41
05-26-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Obviously the marketing issue you note is far more acute for the Sox than it is for the Cubs, Yankees, Cardinals and other teams you didn't specifically mention. I'm sure we can I agree on this much?

There aren't enough Sox Fans and that is why the Sox marketing plan needs to address how to create more Sox Fans, above and beyond the catch-all solution of simply fielding a winning team. We're talking within the limited sphere of marketing here, not baseball operations.

If the goal is to attract 9000 people who wouldn't have come out to the ballpark without a savings incentive, I guarantee there are better ways to do it than cutting the price in half for walkup customers. Based on all the Tuesday night fight posts, it's just silly to keep arguing that this stupid promotion is successful for marketing the Sox. Filling the ballpark does not require calling out the Illinois National Guard.

Let's get real...

:hizzoner
"The police are not there to create disorder. The police are there to preserve disorder!"

Just out of curiousity, what would you do to get 9000 walk up during a weeknight game in May. I'm really curious. I'm not a marketing expert. I've asked this before: WHat else would you do to increase attendance at Sox games?



Bob

gosox41
05-26-2004, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Um...where have you been? I don't know about May, but April attendance this year set an all time record...and I don't mean a record low.


Was that an average per game or total number of people? The Sox did have their longest home stand of the season in April and definitely played more games at home this April then the last few.


Bob

TornLabrum
05-27-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Was that an average per game or total number of people? The Sox did have their longest home stand of the season in April and definitely played more games at home this April then the last few.

I'd better clarify my statement. April attendance for MLB was a record. The statement I was responding to was that baseball attendance has been bad for 10 years.

tromcoe
05-27-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Just look at wed's attendance for that number tromcoe
gene


The point I that I was trying to add to the other comments was that if there were no Tuesday 1/2 price nights that maybe people would put more value into coming out to a baseball game (as PHG implied ' I Think') 18,000 might have been 20,000 If there were 13K presold and 9K walk-up Tuesday. Then tonight there were at least 5K other then season ticket holders that saw value in coming out tonight (only a 4K difference).

PaleHoseGeorge
05-27-2004, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just out of curiousity, what would you do to get 9000 walk up during a weeknight game in May. I'm really curious. I'm not a marketing expert. I've asked this before: WHat else would you do to increase attendance at Sox games?

I already did back on post #6 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=395505#post395505) of this thread. This isn't rocket science. Dreaming up a more effective ticket selling plan than 1/2-priced Tuesday isn't too hard if you've had any marketing training at all.

Hell, I would feel a lot better about large walk up crowds for 1/2-priced nights if the 1/2-pricers were instead being given something -- ANYTHING! -- as an inducement to come back to the ballpark again, like a coupon for a second ticket free when they buy 1 ticket to any upcoming Sox game.

White Sox baseball: We have no clue how to sell it, so we cut the price in half.

Idiots.


I'm 100 percent in favor of offering discounts (even half-priced discounts) to get more fans to Sox Park to see the Sox play. There are simple ways to do this *without* cheapening your product. I dreamed up this idea in less time than it took to type it, and I guarantee the people showing up for my promotion won't be Cubs fans and they won't be turning whole sections of the outfield into a brawl room either. The discount is meant to get them to Sox Park more frequently, not just when the price and the weather suits them. That's a big difference.

Rob Gallas proved himself a completely overmatched for his job because he never understood even the most basic principles of marketing. These Monday and Tuesday night promotions are the most obvious manifestation of his incompetence.

He thought marketing was dreaming up goofball single-game promotions. In the big scheme of things those don't mean ****. Dreaming up "Dog Day" and "Flying Elvis Night" is the 10 percent part of the job you put to bed after the important "pay the bills" decisions have been worked out.

The Sox fan base would never be rebuilt with such a incompetent boob in charge of Sox marketing.

StillMissOzzie
05-27-2004, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Ever heard of Sox 7?

Yep, they screwed that one up too:

1) Changed to Sox 9, which priced me out of the market for a package, a/c I need to get 4
2) Cleverly changed the rules so your cheapest game becomes your $1 game. You used to be able to get a Monday game or 2 and still get a regular priced game for $1
3) Could have publicized that you'd HAVE to get a Sox 9 to get a Sox/Scrubs game. If I was thinking ahead with that knowledge , I could have gotten the Sox 9, picked all 3 Sox/Scrubs games, sold 2 games worth on eBay and covered most if not all of the package!

Maybe a Strike 3 or Ball 4 smaller package, with one game out of the 3 or 4 being discounted, would have worked. NOW, I see they have some kind of weeknight 5-pack going.

SMO
:(:

iwannago
05-27-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Moses_Scurry
Maybe 1/2 night should be scrapped entirely. Maybe they could then have 1/2 price tickets only available as part of a package that includes a couple full price nights. Make Three Game packages with two of them being full price and the third being 1/2 price.

That certainly wouldn't help the out of town base mentioned earlier.