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View Full Version : Who would you be willing to trade for a starter?


jeremyb1
05-25-2004, 05:36 PM
Based on the new 5th starter poll and other discussion on this board it seems as though a lot of people are in favor of dealing for a fifth starter. The idea isn't bad in theory but I wonder who people would actually be willing to trade. The first suggestion everyone always makes is Konerko but his contract is pretty much completely immovable, so that's not an option. That leaves some options but not a ton.

As far as other players on the major league roster the only legitmate candidates would probably be Lee or Valentin. I'm on the record as saying I think trading Valentin's production for Harris' over the course of the rest of the season would be a detriment to the club. Additionally that robs us of the option of using Harris in center creating another hole by leaving only Rowand/Perez. With Carlos, his OBP is a pretty strong .360 and I doubt he'll slug only .420 the rest of the way. Also, I have my doubts teams would be interested in taking on the rest of his deal despite the fact that some have reffered to it as cheap for whatever reason.

In the minors we have Reed who has been and in my opinion should absolutely continue to be considered close to untouchable. Honel was formerly in the same category and teams won't be too interested in him for any amount of time that his health continues to be an issue. Ditto for Wing on the last part. A lot of posters seem to be pretty protective of Anderson and Sweeney and I don't completely blame them. Anderson has crushed the ball and Sweeney is holding his own as a 19 year old in high A ball.

Basically what we're left with here is Rauch and Diaz and a few lesser guys like Majewski, Stewart, Morse, etc. that probably wouldn't bring a ton. I'm not sure that Rauch or Diaz would be a huge loss in the long run but it robs us of our depth of legitimate prospects capable of stepping in soon, leaving us hurting if anyone goes down or we're interested in looking in house in the event Schoeneweis/Loaiza depart in the offseason. Furthermore, I'm not sure what either pitcher could bring. We'd could get a fifth starter but probably not a good one.

This all leaves me wondering, what kind of deals to people have in mind? Because it's easy to say trade prospects or trade a hitter but I don't see a lot of avenues (if any) to bring in a good starter or maybe even one that can pitch better than Rauch/Diaz (ERA in the low to mid 5s).

Foulke You
05-25-2004, 05:53 PM
I really like the club we have this year and would hate to lose anyone from it barring moving a giant albatross contract like Paulie's or Koch's. If we do land another starter, I hope Kenny can pull it off giving up only mid-level prospects (Diaz, Grilli, Sweeney, etc.) instead of a position player that is part of the core of Valentin, Lee, Ordonez, Thomas, Uribe, etc.

I may catch heat here but I would be willing to part with a top level prospect like Reed if we could land a HUGE difference maker like Randy Johnson or perhaps a package of difference makers like Freddy Garcia and Eddie Guardado. I want to win THIS year and I see the window for this group of players shrinking every year. Especially if we lose Maggs to free agency. If giving up Reed gets us a division title and a healthy playoff run, than I'm all for it.

MRKARNO
05-25-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
If we do land another starter, I hope Kenny can pull it off giving up only mid-level prospects (Diaz, Grilli, Sweeney, etc.)

Sweeney is one of the top prospects in the organization. He probably is about as untouchable as Reed or Anderson. He was a 1st round pick that fell to the second round because of a bad workout. No way would I part with Sweeney for a rent-a-pitcher. The other two are ok to trade probably at this point, but there's a lot of players I'd trade before Ryan Sweeney.

Foulke You
05-25-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Sweeney is one of the top prospects in the organization. He probably is about as untouchable as Reed or Anderson. He was a 1st round pick that fell to the second round because of a bad workout. No way would I part with Sweeney for a rent-a-pitcher. The other two are ok to trade probably at this point, but there's a lot of players I'd trade before Ryan Sweeney.

I guess I valued Sweeney as a mid-level guy because he is in class A ball and is still at least 2 to 3 years from the bigs where Reed is more "major league ready". I see your point though. I'd still be willing to part with him if it meant getting a huge difference maker that could take us far in the playoffs.

Gumshoe
05-25-2004, 06:17 PM
Jeremy, as usual you have a very well thought out post. Who are these people who are thinking about trading Carlos Lee? And the question is, who do we get if we do? He is hitting at a bad clip, but it could be a lot worse and he hasn't hit his streak that usually comes mid year. He is a streaky guy, and a lot of "what-have-you-done-for-me lately" Sox fans don't remember anythign but what happened last night, so they would consider trading him. Konerko is solid too. If you trade these guys, who do you get?

The Sox won't get R. Johnson. He either won't come or we won't give up enough to get him. Forget about that.

One of the best moves that KW could have pulled off would have been the Freddy Garcia move. Here is a guy with a really good history in the AL that people were down on only because he had one bad season. If KW had gotten him (and you know I'm not a big KW fan), I would have lauded him. Realistically, Garcia is the only guy that is possible and actually worth mentioning that we MIGHT obtain.

I like the team as is. We'll see what KW does, but anyone who says to get rid of Valentin just wants to shoot us in the foot. Harris and Uribe barely bring 1/2 the game Valentin does. I think Uribe has great upside, but don't act like he's a .350 hitter. Maybe he will turn out to be better than Jose, but that's a huge risk and he's not a leader or winner like Jose, or at least his past doesn't tell us that. Harris is just too inconsistent as well for us to think about moving Jose.

Keep the team where it's at. If Garcia is plausible, THINK about it.

That's my opininon.

Gumshoe

Risk
05-25-2004, 06:19 PM
I would consider moving the following for a solid starter and a high prospect.

1) Konerko
2) Valentin
3) Wunsch- as much as it pains me to do so, but a left handed specialist like himself will bring in a lot of takers

From the minors

1) Borchard
2) Grilli
3) Stewart

Untouchable:

1) Reed
2) Anderson
3) Sweeney
4) Wing

As of right now though, I'm in favor of keeping things as they are until at least the trading deadline, when there is a more clear outlook on which teams are willing to move their quality players and for what price.

Risk

TheBull19
05-25-2004, 06:21 PM
I wouldn't consider any Sox prospect untouchable,depending on who we're trading for. Do we want to win it or not, Sox fans?

maurice
05-25-2004, 06:22 PM
Ideally, I'd package Valentin, Konerko, and propects for a good SP, a LH #5 hitter, and the equivalent of Graffanino, but that's not going to happen.

I'm not a big fan of the notion of "untouchable." I'd make any deal I think would help the club. If a top-of-the-rotation starter is available, I'd give up one of our top OFs or minor-league SPs to get him. If KW can't get anything better than a bottom-of-the-roation guy, I wouldn't be willing to give up much unless we got a quality LH bat in the deal. Contract terms are always an issue.

I'd prefer to hang on to Reed, Honel, Anderson, Sweeney, and Valido for the time being, but some of the other position prospects likely have some trade value (e.g., Young). I seriously doubt you could get anything for Wing (given his current status), and I don't think you can get value back for Borchard or Rauch. Maybe that will change if Borchard continues on his tear or Rauch starts tossing more than 5 innings per start. (Then again, performances like that should get them promoted to the Sox, possibly negating the need for a trade.)

IMHO, Majewski and Stewart have very little trade value. (Majewski's already been traded twice.) Yet, KW has had some success producing and trading minor-league relievers. The system currently is rife with that type of player.

A. Cavatica
05-25-2004, 07:37 PM
It all depends on who we get in return, and who we want to move because they're not cost-effective (this being the Sox, that always enters into it).

Players I'd trade for next to nothing, just to be rid of their contracts: Koch, Konerko.

Players I'd consider trading, but I'd expect good value in return: Valentin, Lee, Rowand, Ordonez, Schoeneweis, Wunsch, Politte, Takatsu, Rauch, Diaz, Pacheco, Meaux, Bajenaru, Fields, Borchard, Spidale, Rogowski, Morse.

Players who wouldn't attract much interest, but whom I'd readily throw in to close a deal: Alomar, Gload, Perez, Adkins, Jackson, most of our minor leaguers.

Players I'd have to be bowled over to trade: Olivo, Harris, Uribe, Crede, Reed, Sweeney, Anderson, Gonzalez, Valido, Garland, Buehrle, Loaiza, Marte, Cotts, Munoz, Honel, Wing.

The interesting names -- tradeable players who would bring something in return -- are in the second group.

soltrain21
05-25-2004, 07:54 PM
I would trade my own mother for a starter..




I would say a deal involving Borchard, Wunsch, and throw in something else, really depends on who it is..

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by soltrain21
I would trade my own mother for a starter..




I would say a deal involving Borchard, Wunsch, and throw in something else, really depends on who it is..
Think the Mariners would trade Freddy Garcia for your mother? :D:

A. Cavatica
05-25-2004, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Think the Mariners would trade Freddy Garcia for your mother? :D:

Trade proposal: Freddy Garcia's mother for Soltrain's mother.

kojak
05-25-2004, 09:44 PM
I'm in the minority here, but as of right now I stay we stand pat.
We have an amazing chemistry developing and I'd really like to see that work itself out first.

I have heard rumours of a deal involving Danny Wright and Carlos Beltran, but that was from the NORML posting board.

Hats off to Ozzie for a truly amazing first quarter. A little heavy on the diddling, but a rookie manager SHOULD diddle around with the lineup too much.

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by kojak
I have heard rumours of a deal involving Danny Wright and Carlos Beltran, but that was from the NORML posting board.


Haha, teal is for sarcasm man.

Daver
05-25-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by soltrain21
I would trade my own mother for a starter..


Can your mom hit a curveball?





:bandance:

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Can your mom hit a curveball?





:bandance:
I know Jose can't.

kojak
05-25-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Haha, teal is for sarcasm man.

I must have missed that in the newbie manual.

soltrain21
05-25-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
I know Jose can't.


Yeah no crap, I am sure she could handle playing SS too, she played in high school...

Sufferin
05-25-2004, 10:03 PM
We don't need a 5th starter.



We need a 2nd starter. Loaiza isn't fooling people like he did last year. That's not to say he's not a solid starter, he is. But he should be a #3 with Garland the 4 and Schoenweiss no more than a 5. You guys have to remember we're getting WAY more out of Schoenweiss so far than we should be expecting. The reason he was put into relief was his ERA as a start was in the 5s.

If he keeps it up that's great but there's no way we should be counting on it. I try to get a Garcia or some other #2 quality guy who's a FA after the year. And yes I trade ANY prospect. No prospects are untouchable when you can make a deal that will significantly help your chances of winning. Blue chip prospects have a habit of flaming out before they do anything in the big leagues. Even if they become stars, if you won the division the year of the trade because of the trade, it's still a good trade. Thik Cub fans really regret trading Mel Hall and Joe Carter for Rick Sutcliffe (I think that was the main gist of the deal)?

If we can land Garcia for one prospect and Wunsch, give Seattle whoever they want, and do it now!

batmanZoSo
05-25-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Based on the new 5th starter poll and other discussion on this board it seems as though a lot of people are in favor of dealing for a fifth starter. The idea isn't bad in theory but I wonder who people would actually be willing to trade. The first suggestion everyone always makes is Konerko but his contract is pretty much completely immovable, so that's not an option. That leaves some options but not a ton.

As far as other players on the major league roster the only legitmate candidates would probably be Lee or Valentin. I'm on the record as saying I think trading Valentin's production for Harris' over the course of the rest of the season would be a detriment to the club. Additionally that robs us of the option of using Harris in center creating another hole by leaving only Rowand/Perez. With Carlos, his OBP is a pretty strong .360 and I doubt he'll slug only .420 the rest of the way. Also, I have my doubts teams would be interested in taking on the rest of his deal despite the fact that some have reffered to it as cheap for whatever reason.

In the minors we have Reed who has been and in my opinion should absolutely continue to be considered close to untouchable. Honel was formerly in the same category and teams won't be too interested in him for any amount of time that his health continues to be an issue. Ditto for Wing on the last part. A lot of posters seem to be pretty protective of Anderson and Sweeney and I don't completely blame them. Anderson has crushed the ball and Sweeney is holding his own as a 19 year old in high A ball.

Basically what we're left with here is Rauch and Diaz and a few lesser guys like Majewski, Stewart, Morse, etc. that probably wouldn't bring a ton. I'm not sure that Rauch or Diaz would be a huge loss in the long run but it robs us of our depth of legitimate prospects capable of stepping in soon, leaving us hurting if anyone goes down or we're interested in looking in house in the event Schoeneweis/Loaiza depart in the offseason. Furthermore, I'm not sure what either pitcher could bring. We'd could get a fifth starter but probably not a good one.

This all leaves me wondering, what kind of deals to people have in mind? Because it's easy to say trade prospects or trade a hitter but I don't see a lot of avenues (if any) to bring in a good starter or maybe even one that can pitch better than Rauch/Diaz (ERA in the low to mid 5s).

For an ace I would trade Rauch, Borchard, and Munoz.

I wouldn't touch Reed, Anderson, Sweeney or Honel.

Win1ForMe
05-25-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Ideally, I'd package Valentin, Konerko, and propects for a good SP, a LH #5 hitter, and the equivalent of Graffanino, but that's not going to happen.

You know, seeing as how KC isn't going anywhere, can't we just trade for Tony G.? That wouldn't be too bad, especially since we always seem to throw out at least one middle infielder (Jose or Willie) that can't hit LHP. Serious question...

lowesox
05-26-2004, 01:37 AM
Because we don't have a ton of trading bait I think Kenny might be wise to trade a piece of the puzzle like Lee (with a prospect arm like Rauch, Munoz, Diaz or Meaux) for two puzzle pieces. We could go for combinations like:

Garcia and Wynn?
Catalonatto and Miguel Batista?
Livan Hernandez and Everett?
Joe Kennedy and Preston Wilson

...off the top of my head.

jeremyb1
05-26-2004, 02:13 AM
Basically, I'm not sure the guys people are willing to trade in this thread are going to bring much in terms of value. Maybe if we traded multiple players in a package such as Lee, Munoz, and Diaz we could get a high calliber starter at the deadline such as Garcia but that price seems a little steep personally. Unless Borchard or Reed is absolutely feasting on AAA pitching at this point we'd be subtracting some by trading a key component of the offense in Lee. I guess we'll see what happens.