PDA

View Full Version : SOX/SCRUBS trade in cubune


habibharu
05-25-2004, 11:33 AM
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

Palehose13
05-25-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade
I don't either.

doublem23
05-25-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

I've seen worse, but I don't like this one because I don't trust Clement won't go down with an injury in a few years.

Jerko
05-25-2004, 11:35 AM
:chunks

joeynach
05-25-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

That is a very bad trade for us. Those two guys are so clutch for us. Clement is having a career year, so expect him to not repeat or keep this up much longer, and patterson is not the answer in center field. He minds me of wille mays hays in major league. Before he starts becoming a contact hitter.

Rocky Soprano
05-25-2004, 11:38 AM
This is the Cubune wishing they could have Maggs. Mark Prior and Patterson, maybe. :D:

mantis1212
05-25-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

Who is suggesting this? Do you have a link?

TDog
05-25-2004, 11:40 AM
I don't read the Tribune. I don't know anything about the context of this report. However, I can see where the Cubs and their parent company would want a quality rightfielder, for a change.

poorme
05-25-2004, 11:41 AM
I would make that trade.

Hangar18
05-25-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

Hmmmmm, cornerstone Franchise/All-Star type player
for a Bust in CF and a Pitcher that only is good because hes in the NL. Not really liking this trade. Anyone realize Maggs
to the Cubs could happen? They love signing other teams players, esp a guy who is Already a Fan Favorite, Has his Own Marketing (OOOOO eeeee OOOOOOO) and loves Chicago.
This could be reallllllly bad. Watch how the MEDIA credits "the great fans, chant OOO ee OOOO for their star player Magglio every time he bats. What faithful fans!"

WSox8404
05-25-2004, 11:43 AM
Put in Zambrano instead of Clement and I would consider it.

Rocky Soprano
05-25-2004, 11:43 AM
If Maggs jumps ship to the Flubs, I swear Reinsdorf better watch his back.

habibharu
05-25-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by mantis1212
Who is suggesting this? Do you have a link? jimmy greenfield in the trib wrote it today

firejauron
05-25-2004, 11:46 AM
I would want at least one of the Cubs top pitching prospects thrown into the deal if we're giving up a bonafide all star.

From a Cubs perspective, what would they do with their outfield? Mags in right, Sammy in center and Alou in left? Yikes, what a defensive nightmare. They would also have to go out and get at least another starter, especially with Wood's injured arm and losing Clement.

mantis1212
05-25-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by WSox8404
Put in Zambrano instead of Clement and I would consider it.

Not a bad idea. Zambrano for Maggs straight up, then spend the money on Beltran

Irishsox1
05-25-2004, 11:49 AM
This is the worst trade idea for the White Sox I've ever heard. Trade Magglio to the Cubs!!!....The Cubs!!! Jimmy Greenbrain is a fricken moron.

jabrch
05-25-2004, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by mantis1212
Not a bad idea. Zambrano for Maggs straight up, then spend the money on Beltran


I don't think the Cubs would even consider this.

As far as the Maggs/Wunsch for Patterson/Clement, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Patterson would be better than anyone we have in CF, would be entering his first year of arbitration, and still has upside. Clement would help us a great deal this year - and we can let him walk if we want after the year, the same way Magglio is going to anyhow. Reed can come up and play RF, Patterson in CF. Now lets get them to throw in Brownlie or something and we are set. I have no idea why they'd give up Patterson and Clement for Magglio on his way to FA and Wuncsch - but if Greenfield thinks it would work, I'm for it.

BigEdWalsh
05-25-2004, 11:56 AM
:ohno
O-E-NO!

:woo-woo Woo! Bad Trade! Woo!

Brian26
05-25-2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
jimmy greenfield in the trib wrote it today

Pass the crack pipe. I wouldn't trade Maggs for Patterson and Clement, let alone throwing in anyone else. 2 sacks of garbage for one all-star/franchise player? What a joke.

Brian26
05-25-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
As far as the Maggs/Wunsch for Patterson/Clement, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

You're nuts. A guy like Magglio comes along once a decade, if you're lucky.

DaveIsHere
05-25-2004, 12:04 PM
This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, no way would I give the flubs Maggs, get a 'life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry:

TaylorStSox
05-25-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Pass the crack pipe. I wouldn't trade Maggs for Patterson and Clement, let alone throwing in anyone else. 2 sacks of garbage for one all-star/franchise player? What a joke.

Since when are Clement and Patterson garbage? I'd definitely consider trade if a pitching prospect was thrown in. The Cubs probably have the deepest pool of pitching prospects in the minors.

Brian26
05-25-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Since when are Clement and Patterson garbage? I'd definitely consider trade if a pitching prospect was thrown in. The Cubs probably have the deepest pool of pitching prospects in the minors.

Since when are they all-stars? Maggs is a bona-fide franchise player. Clement was a throw-in 3 years ago in that Alfonseca trade. Patterson has bust written all over him and has already proven that he's injury prone. Notwithstanding those points, psychologically, this would DESTROY the White Sox franchise. Trading your best player to the North Side in the middle of a pennant race? It's insane. This would make the White Flag look good.

jabrch
05-25-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
You're nuts. A guy like Magglio comes along once a decade, if you're lucky.

And he is, in all probability, leaving after this year. So then what? If he refused to accept the two offers he has been made, he is puttin JR in a position where trading him might be the only option. frankly, I want to win now. An OF of Lee, Reed and Patterson with a rotation of Clement, Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland and Schoe would have a real good chance.

GoSox2K3
05-25-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
This is the worst trade idea for the White Sox I've ever heard. Trade Magglio to the Cubs!!!....The Cubs!!! Jimmy Greenbrain is a fricken moron.

I totally agree!!!!!!!! This trade would be a total disaster for the Sox. This would further decimate the Sox fan base and boost the Cubs market share. I can't believe that the Sox would be stupid enough to make this deal. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!!!

Unless we can win the W/S this year, the franchise is much better off letting Magglio go to another city than to make him into the latest former Sox turned CUBS LEGEND.

:shammy
Remember me? I'm the last right fielder you traded to the Cubs!

jabrch
05-25-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Clement was a throw-in 3 years ago in that Alfonseca trade.

And he was one of the top 5 pitching prospects in baseball a few years before that - who cares - as long as he is a legit #2 now?

Patterson has bust written all over him and has already proven that he's injury prone.

He has had one knee injury - how is that injury prone? That was a freakish injury. He is no more injury prone than Frank is for his biceps injury.


Notwithstanding those points, psychologically, this would DESTROY the White Sox franchise. Trading your best player to the North Side in the middle of a pennant race? It's insane. This would make the White Flag look good.

That's nonsense - you are getting back a #2 pitcher and a CF who could easily still be a very solid CF in the game. Look at his stats before his knee injury last year. He was one of the best CFs in the game in the firsrt half.

We need pitching to win. We will score a ton of runs without Magglio. If we don't get another front of the rotation starter, we won't stand a chance of winning a playoff series if we even make it that far.

Brian26
05-25-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
We need pitching to win. We will score a ton of runs without Magglio. If we don't get another front of the rotation starter, we won't stand a chance of winning a playoff series if we even make it that far.

I'm more concerned about our inconsistent offense than pitching at this point. And honestly, you only need a 4-man rotation in the playoffs...maybe even a 3-man. I think we'll be ok as long as we can get there. We're talking short series...Best of 5 and Best of 7.

Brian26
05-25-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
That's nonsense - you are getting back a #2 pitcher and a CF who could easily still be a very solid CF in the game. Look at his stats before his knee injury last year. He was one of the best CFs in the game in the firsrt half.

I'll do that right after I look at the first half stats of PK from 2002. :smile:

THE_HOOTER
05-25-2004, 01:07 PM
Matt clement is a #2 or #3.

Patterson batting in the #3 hole would be productive, but not as prodctive as Magglio.

Wunsch is not worth the letters I am typing.

So, its basically Patterson and Clement for Ordonez.

I'd do it as well.

Patterson gives us lefty power we dont have, Clement gives us a young strikeout pitcher to compliment Buerhle, Schow, and Garland.

This deal also probably allows us to re-sign Loiaza next year.

Maggs may be a fan favorite, but its a fact the Sox cannot afford to pay him 70 million over the next 6 years.

This deal gives a lot in return, and possibly some moeny leftover to sign some more bullpen help.

If its no guarantee ordonez stays, would you rather get draft picks than this offer?

soxtalker
05-25-2004, 01:11 PM
It sounds like a very interesting proposal, but I doubt that either GM would seriously consider it. It addresses current needs of both teams (well, assuming that the Cubs get Wood and Prior back). If it looks like we can't sign Maggs, then we are effectively just renting him for the remainder of the season.

I can't see either side, however, looking at this. Cubs-Sox trades have too much focus on them if they go bad. And this one would be under even greater scrutiny, since both teams are in the chase.

jabrch
05-25-2004, 01:20 PM
Right now, with Prior and Wood both on the DL, there is no way they could trade Clement. It would be suicide for them - just to add Magglio's bat to give up one of their only healthy pitchers of value.

Right now, our starting rotation is worlds better than theirs, when you look at it

Zambrano
Clement
Maddux
Mitre
Rusch

vs

Loaiza
Buehrle
Schoenweis
Garland
XXXXX

I'd say 1/2 are ties. We win 3 and 4. 5 is a wash.

SSN721
05-25-2004, 01:35 PM
TO me this is as bad as trading a superstar in your division. I think this is the worst trade ever this team could do from a PR aspect. Losing Mags to the Cubs would be devestating beyond comprehension to a large part of the fanbase. Just terrible, terrible idea. From an actual player standpoint, it isnt bad, I still dont like it, would want more, and i would rather give Mags away and pick up Beltran than trade him to the Cubs, it would kill me and would also kill a lot of this fanbase, would just be a PR disaster for the SOx.

JRIG
05-25-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Right now, with Prior and Wood both on the DL, there is no way they could trade Clement. It would be suicide for them - just to add Magglio's bat to give up one of their only healthy pitchers of value.

Right now, our starting rotation is worlds better than theirs, when you look at it

Zambrano
Clement
Maddux
Mitre
Rusch

vs

Loaiza
Buehrle
Schoenweis
Garland
XXXXX

I'd say 1/2 are ties. We win 3 and 4. 5 is a wash.

Zambrano is better than Loaiza right now. By a pretty big margin.

And I would take Maddux over Schoeneweis any day of the week. Maddux hasn't walked a guy in 4 starts and after terrible starts to begin the year has had 6 straight very good games.

kojak
05-25-2004, 01:50 PM
What does Kenny Williams have to do to prove himself????
He would never be stupid enough to make this trade!

If we did, then we would deserve all of the press that we don't get (or deserve not getting the press that we don't, or not getting deserved press that we don't not currently get, or something)

While we are at it...

Let's trade Urlacher to the Pack for Fav-ruh

Let's dump our best Blackhawks! Wait-- we've already done that...

maurice
05-25-2004, 02:06 PM
I don't want Clement. Let's try . . .

Patterson, Zambrano, Martinez, and a prospect for Ordonez, Valentin, and Wunsch

. . . then use the $$$ you save to trade for some odds and ends.

Vsahajpal
05-25-2004, 02:32 PM
Jimmy must be hitting Sam Smith's stash...this deal makes no sense for either club.

Frankfan4life
05-25-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Hmmmmm, cornerstone Franchise/All-Star type player
for a Bust in CF and a Pitcher that only is good because hes in the NL. Not really liking this trade. Anyone realize Maggs
to the Cubs could happen? They love signing other teams players, esp a guy who is Already a Fan Favorite, Has his Own Marketing (OOOOO eeeee OOOOOOO) and loves Chicago.
This could be reallllllly bad. Watch how the MEDIA credits "the great fans, chant OOO ee OOOO for their star player Magglio every time he bats. What faithful fans!"
I don't need that nightmare.

THE_HOOTER
05-25-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Jimmy must be hitting Sam Smith's stash...this deal makes no sense for either club.


Just curious, how does this deal make no sense to the White sox?

They need another starter, and they need a Centerfielder.

Ordonez walks next year, so at some point it makes sense to get maximum value for him.

While our lineup takes a hit, our team speed, defense, and pitching improve.

Plus, we arent letting a player of ours walk for draft picks.

Vsahajpal
05-25-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Just curious, how does this deal make no sense to the White sox?

They need another starter, and they need a Centerfielder.

Ordonez walks next year, so at some point it makes sense to get maximum value for him.

While our lineup takes a hit, our team speed, defense, and pitching improve.

Plus, we arent letting a player of ours walk for draft picks.

Why would they need Patterson, though? He isn't a top of the order hitter. IMO, they've got one of the better CF prospects down at Charlotte in Jeremy Reed, who has shown a propensity to get on base often.

Clement is also a FA at the end of the season, and would likely walk.

And I very much doubt Williams will trade Ordonez to the Cubs, unless he was absolutely floored.

THE_HOOTER
05-25-2004, 03:22 PM
I agree about trading with the Cubs, but I was assuming they would sign Clement with the money they save trading Maggs.

Reed is a prospect, and we all know what happens when we pins hopes on porspects around here.

Besides, RF is open so Reed wont be blocked anyway.

It may not be the greatest deal in the world, but to get a CF with good power and speed, and a #2-#3 starter is something the Sox are looking for.

Maggs is looking to break the bank, and he wont do that here.

This deal gives us a good return on a guy who is a free agent to be.

If there are no plans to sign clement after this year, the White Sox can trade anyone because we are doomed anyway.

wdelaney72
05-25-2004, 03:26 PM
This is a stupid trade. The Cubs would have no CF. Maggs or Corky in Center... outch!

From the Sox perspective, I would actually consider this if it were Zambrano. Zambrano is pretty damn good now and his not even hit his potential.

Still, the Sox are contending, Maggs will NOT be traded as long as they were in contention.

Also, the Cubs need Clement. There's no way they'll trade him while they're contending.

Just a load of hot air from someone who has no clue. I'll bet he sits out in the bleachers at the Shrine on a regular basis.

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 03:26 PM
Zambrano and Patterson for Maggs and Wunsch hell yeah, Clement and Patterson for Maggs and Wunsch hell no.

soxtalker
05-25-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Zambrano and Patterson for Maggs and Wunsch hell yeah, Clement and Patterson for Maggs and Wunsch hell no.

Don't Zambrano, Patterson, and Clement all have several years left before FA? We'd only be trading the rights to Maggs for the rest of the seaon; that reduces his value in a trade (for players that aren't going into FA) significantly.

THE_HOOTER
05-25-2004, 03:32 PM
You are missing a very important point from this rumor:

If you have a player who is leaving via free agency, do you keep him and let him walk, or try and get maximum value now?

I am not saying trade Ordonez, but this deal intrigues me because you are getting 2 good players in return.

If Ordonez walks this year and the Sox get nothing, our lineup is a lot weaker, and our pitching the same.

I do agree though, Clement would have to be re-signed in order for the deal to work.

OEO Magglio
05-25-2004, 03:52 PM
For all of you saying it's a good trade because Maggs is a fa at years end. First off that shouldn't matter if the sox are trying to win this year, and 2nd clement is also a fa at seasons end.

longshot7
05-25-2004, 04:00 PM
anyone who thinks we should do this deal is crazy. nuff said.

habibharu
05-25-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Don't Zambrano, Patterson, and Clement all have several years left before FA? We'd only be trading the rights to Maggs for the rest of the seaon; that reduces his value in a trade (for players that aren't going into FA) significantly. clement is a FA after this year, just like maggs

CubKiller
05-25-2004, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
You are missing a very important point from this rumor...

I know imaginary trade talk is common here, so I'm hoping this is just another case of just that.

Someone PLEASE tell me that this isn't a real rumor. This is just a newspaper guy inventing something to write about, right?

I apologize and please correct me if I'm wrong as I could not find the article. Nor am I familiar with Trib writer Jimmy Greenfield.

Sometimes I think fans get too caught up on what a player has done in a short time span and/or how they are performing at the moment.

Clement is just a career .500 pitcher with a very mediocre ERA. Assuming he pitches well into the break this year, it's just half a season. He's been streaky in the past, and is just as likely to crash and burn in the second half this year.

Patterson is young and has a chance to turn things around for himself. But up to this point, his career is starting to look quite laughable, especially when considering how he was hyped up (obviously not his fault there). Some people are quick to point out the 'great' half-season he was having before he got hurt. With a .298 BA, 77 Ks and 12 BBs, he wasn't THAT good. For his career, he has a .260 BA with 300 Ks and 55 BBs.

These guys for Magglio Ordoņez and Kelly Wunsch? I would hope Kenny Williams would hang up the phone and fall out of his chair laughing.

Brian26
05-25-2004, 08:19 PM
A great point has been brought up several times without an answer....this would leave the Scrubs with two rightfielders and no centerfielder.

soxwon
05-25-2004, 09:15 PM
The sox are insane for trading maggs to the cubs.
we as fans would never hear the end of it!!!
no way never, i dont want to hear this. no no no

i want maggs a sox for 5 more years- just do it.

Jeremy
05-26-2004, 12:02 AM
I would like this deal only if Maggs doesn't plan on signing with us after the year ends. I don't know why the Cubs would do this really... it sends their only legit left-handed power bat away for yet another right hander. Also with Wood and Prior out, seems to me like they would want to keep Clement. I don't see this benefiting either team, actually I think it favors us. I don't question Maggs' ability to play center field (especially in that softball field, wrigley). perhaps they just want him in case Sosa ever sneezes again in the future and has to go back on the 15day DL.

actually come to think of it, this deal really screws the Cubs.

Mohoney
05-26-2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

Whoever wrote that must be on crack.

Why don't we just give 'em Maggs, Frank Thomas, Carlos Lee, and Mark Buehrle for Ronnie Woo Woo's shiny gold teeth and the broadcasting rights to Chip Caray and Ron Santo?

pearso66
05-26-2004, 12:13 AM
From what I've heard on Clement, with the way he throws his slider, he's an injury waiting to happen. Just what we need, more arm surgery for our pitchers.

And in the case of Patterson, he sounds like he's becoming sort of a clubhouse cancer, I mean he refuses to bunt when Baker tells him to, he swings for the fences. they had to take him out of the lead off hole and put him in the 7 slot. Do we really need more players swinging for the fences? I veto this trade

gosox41
05-26-2004, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by habibharu
clement and patterson for maggs and wunsch. i personally dont like this trade

Typical Cub fan suggestion. They got spoiled last year when they made all those trades and gave up next to nothing.


Bob

Mohoney
05-28-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Typical Cub fan suggestion. They got spoiled last year when they made all those trades and gave up next to nothing.


Bob

Exactly.

Bucktown
05-29-2004, 01:00 AM
Since we need help at 3rd base we should see if the Cubs will throw in George Bell. That will put us over the top.