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View Full Version : Time To Offer Valentin Contract Extension


joecrede
05-24-2004, 02:11 PM
I think it would be smart of the Sox to offer Valentin a 2yr/$10M contract extension right now. My grand plan would then put Uribe at short and Valentin at second beginning in 2005.

Randar68
05-24-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I think it would be smart of the Sox to offer Valentin a 2yr/$10M contract extension right now. My grand plan would then put Uribe at short and Valentin at second beginning in 2005. :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

HUH!?

kittle42
05-24-2004, 02:14 PM
Because the this thread sucks guy has been overused, I will lay off him and......


Oh forget it......

A HUGE.......
:threadsucks

Hokiesox
05-24-2004, 02:14 PM
joecrede, seriously, get rid of whatever you're drinking or smoking. It aint good.

Randar68
05-24-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I think it would be smart of the Sox to offer Valentin a 2yr/$10M contract extension right now. My grand plan would then put Uribe at short and Valentin at second beginning in 2005.

For the sake of discussion, call me a masochist, why would you offer 5 million a year to Jose when you have Uribe and Harris and much more affordable prices and both outperforming Jose? Don't we have enough power-hitting strike-out hitters?

bobj4400
05-24-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I think it would be smart of the Sox to offer Valentin a 2yr/$10M contract extension right now. My grand plan would then put Uribe at short and Valentin at second beginning in 2005.

Manos, is that you???

Randar68
05-24-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Manos, is that you???

LOL! :)

DrummerGeorgefan
05-24-2004, 02:17 PM
The last thing we need to do is resign Valentin. He's old and not going to be as good as he is now. No need to stick with him for a long time. Uribe has potential to be a substitute, if not better than Jose. I'd rather save the bank to spend on someone else.

joecrede
05-24-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
For the sake of discussion, call me a masochist, why would you offer 5 million a year to Jose when you have Uribe and Harris and much more affordable prices and both outperforming Jose? Don't we have enough power-hitting strike-out hitters?

Harris is outperforming Valentin? On the baseball field?

Randar68
05-24-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Harris is outperforming Valentin? On the baseball field?

No, in a drinking contest....

Put the crack pipe down, Joe.

How many balls has Jose booted already?

Who get's on base more often?

Who's hitting for a higher average?

Who takes more pitches and walks?

Who has legit speed on the basepaths?

This team has plenty of HR's to be able to afford to let a 25-30 HR player with 100+ K's per year and who can't hit lefties walk away in FA.

OBP and speed is severly lacking in this lineup, and you want to pay someone to retard that shift in philosophy 10 million for 2 more years?

jabrch
05-24-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Harris is outperforming Valentin? On the baseball field?

Harris is hitting .310 with a .370 obp. Valentin is hitting .278 with .333. For arguements sake, the power of Jose = the speed of Harris. Now add the nightmare that Manos has been this season defensively...

Yes, Harris is outperforming Valentin - specially as a leadoff or a #2 hitter.

Now is a good time to trade Valentin for anything we can get so we can have Uribe and Harris on the field together MORE OFTEN at the top of the order as setup guys for the big boppers and so we can free up as close to 5mm as possible to acquire a player before the trade deadline.

Hondo
05-24-2004, 02:24 PM
Harris, thus far, is productive enough with his bat to stay at 2B.
Valentin is a horrible fielder. I'd rather see him DH for the rest of the season and put Frank at 1st then keep him at SS or 2b.

bobj4400
05-24-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
LOL! :)


Looks like we're going to have to fight the FOV today, when I thought the FOC was going to be out in full force. In fact, I am shocked that the FOC hasnt made a stink today. Their hero actually had a good day at the plate yesterday...

joecrede
05-24-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
No, in a drinking contest....

Put the crack pipe down, Joe.

How many balls has Jose booted already?

Who get's on base more often?

Who's hitting for a higher average?

Who takes more pitches and walks?

Who has legit speed on the basepaths?

This team has plenty of HR's to be able to afford to let a 25-30 HR player with 100+ K's per year and who can't hit lefties walk away in FA.

OBP and speed is severly lacking in this lineup, and you want to pay someone to retard that shift in philosophy 10 million for 2 more years?

It's silly to suggest that Harris is even close to the player Valentin is.

jabrch
05-24-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Looks like we're going to have to fight the FOV today, when I thought the FOC was going to be out in full force. In fact, I am shocked that the FOC hasnt made a stink today. Their hero actually had a good day at the plate yesterday...


EVERYONE had a good day at the plate yesterday. The FOK(Friends of Kelly) would have been out in force had Dransfeldt been on the field - he'd have at least been 2 for 4.

jeremyb1
05-24-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
For the sake of discussion, call me a masochist, why would you offer 5 million a year to Jose when you have Uribe and Harris and much more affordable prices and both outperforming Jose? Don't we have enough power-hitting strike-out hitters?

How is Harris outperforming Jose!?!? I might question the wisdom of giving so much money to a player in his declining years but his absurd argument that Harris has been better than Jose needs to go! .278/.333/.537 vs. .308/.370/.367!! Now I tout on base percentage more than just about anyone but I wouldn't trade less than 40 points of OBP for .170 points of slugging! Not to mention this production has come when Willie has only 15 at bats against lefties while Jose has had 38 while neither of them hit lefties very well, meaning Willie's numbers greatly benefit from his lack of at bats against lefties whereas Jose has succeeded in spit of his.

jabrch
05-24-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's silly to suggest that Harris is even close to the player Valentin is.

yeah - he gets on more, doesn't strike out as much, moves better, sets the table better, and plays better defense. He is nothing like Valentin.

Randar68
05-24-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's silly to suggest that Harris is even close to the player Valentin is.

Way to back that up.

:bangsheadagainstwall

Randar68
05-24-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
How is Harris outperforming Jose!?!? I might question the wisdom of giving so much money to a player in his declining years but his absurd argument that Harris has been better than Jose needs to go! .278/.333/.537 vs. .308/.370/.367!! Now I tout on base percentage more than just about anyone but I wouldn't trade less than 40 points of OBP for .170 points of slugging! Not to mention this production has come when Willie has only 15 at bats against lefties while Jose has had 38 while neither of them hit lefties very well, meaning Willie's numbers greatly benefit from his lack of at bats against lefties whereas Jose has succeeded in spit of his.

Without Harris, who hits leadoff regularly?

You want Jose striking out or swinging for the fences back in the #2 hole to-boot?

SLG% is the last of this teams' worries. Harris is far more essential to this team's success if he can get on-base at the top of the line-up, although neither has had much of any luck against lefties this year.

joecrede
05-24-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Without Harris, who hits leadoff regularly?

You want Jose striking out or swinging for the fences back in the #2 hole to-boot?

SLG% is the last of this teams' worries. Harris is far more essential to this team's success if he can get on-base at the top of the line-up, although neither has had much of any luck against lefties this year.

Platoon Harris in center next year and deal Lee in hopes of filling a hole in the pitching staff with Reed replacing him.

doublem23
05-24-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's silly to suggest that Harris is even close to the player Valentin is.

Can you back that up or is the Earth flat today, too?

Valentin may be a great asset for the clubhouse and have very good power for a middle infielder, and yes, Willie Harris may not be as good a player as Jose is; yet, but the future of the Sox up the middle is Uribe/Harris. Valentin should be looked at as a lame duck.

Rocky Soprano
05-24-2004, 02:47 PM
Put me in the we dont need Valentin bandwagon.

I am so sick of seeing him swining for the fences every single time he is up to bat. Then seeing him boot balls that my lil brother could field.

We can put that 5MM to better use.

Uribe at SS, Harris at 2B, and spend 5MM towards getting a #5 starter.

jeremyb1
05-24-2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Without Harris, who hits leadoff regularly?

You want Jose striking out or swinging for the fences back in the #2 hole to-boot?

SLG% is the last of this teams' worries. Harris is far more essential to this team's success if he can get on-base at the top of the line-up, although neither has had much of any luck against lefties this year.

I agree SLG percentage need not be the team's focus but you don't send a guy packing that has extreme power simply because he doesn't fill a void.

If we're in the position to place a ton of weight on one fourth of a season then Uribe is our leadoff hitter. He has a .400 OBP which clearly bests Harris' .370 OBP.

If you ask me the huge problem with this thread is just assuming that Harris is going to hit how he's hitting now or better for the rest of his career. If 200 at bats was enough to condemn him prior to spring training how is 100 at bats enough to make him a fixture?

joecrede
05-24-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Can you back that up or is the Earth flat today, too?

Valentin may be a great asset for the clubhouse and have very good power for a middle infielder, and yes, Willie Harris may not be as good a player as Jose is; yet, but the future of the Sox up the middle is Uribe/Harris. Valentin should be looked at as a lame duck.

Harris and Uribe have spotty track records at best. If the Sox really think they are the future middle infield, no questions asked, they are setting themselves up for failure.

doublem23
05-24-2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Harris and Uribe have spotty track records at best. If the Sox really think they are the future middle infield, no questions asked, they are setting themselves up for failure.

But Jose Valentin is the answer?

Maybe this thread is just ahead of its time. I think it would be better if the Sox were to wait out the season and see how the three do over a year. Signing Jose for another 2 years if he's going to be outplayed is not a good strategy for a team whose self-imposed budget is already bursting at the seams.

Paulwny
05-24-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I agree SLG percentage need not be the team's focus but you don't send a guy packing that has extreme power simply because he doesn't fill a void.

If we're in the position to place a ton of weight on one fourth of a season then Uribe is our leadoff hitter. He has a .400 OBP which clearly bests Harris' .370 OBP.

If you ask me the huge problem with this thread is just assuming that Harris is going to hit how he's hitting now or better for the rest of his career. If 200 at bats was enough to condemn him prior to spring training how is 100 at bats enough to make him a fixture?

I agree, you don't send him packing, but no way do you give him $10 mil for 2 yrs.

Randar68
05-24-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Harris and Uribe have spotty track records at best. If the Sox really think they are the future middle infield, no questions asked, they are setting themselves up for failure.

Almost all young players fall under that generalization. Are you joining the Lip fan club of wanting nothing but marginal veterans for the sake of not having to watch young player develop?

jeremyb1
05-24-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I agree, you don't send him packing, but no way do you give him $10 mil for 2 yrs.

Yeah but that's a completely different issue than who's more valuable between Harris and Valentin in the status quo.

delben91
05-24-2004, 03:05 PM
On a mildly unrelated note, how long is Uribe signed for?

hose
05-24-2004, 03:08 PM
Juan Uribe will be the Sox starting ss next year. I don't see Jose in the picture, with Harris at second.

Randar68
05-24-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by delben91
On a mildly unrelated note, how long is Uribe signed for?

He is going to be arbitration eligible this offseason.

Gumshoe
05-24-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
Harris, thus far, is productive enough with his bat to stay at 2B.
Valentin is a horrible fielder. I'd rather see him DH for the rest of the season and put Frank at 1st then keep him at SS or 2b.

The people that say that Jose is a "horrible fielder" are probably the same that say that AR is a bad defensive CF. Too bad that he gets to 30 more balls a year than Derek Jeter and he was the gold glover shortstop last year according to defensive win shares.

Oh yeah, but things like results and defensive statistics don't count, at all.

Right Randar?

Gumshoe

Randar68
05-24-2004, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
The people that say that Jose is a "horrible fielder" are probably the same that say that AR is a bad defensive CF. Too bad that he gets to 30 more balls a year than Derek Jeter and he was the gold glover shortstop last year according to defensive win shares.

Oh yeah, but things like results and defensive statistics don't count, at all.

Right Randar?

Gumshoe

Nice. You had a good day, yesterday, huh Aaron?

bobj4400
05-24-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Nice. You had a good day, yesterday, huh Aaron?

LOL! :)


FOV and FOC are showing themselves now! Randar, I will stay strong in denouncing all things FOC with you...

Randar68
05-24-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
LOL! :)


FOV and FOC are showing themselves now! Randar, I will stay strong in denouncing all things FOC with you...

Thanks, although it's probably better if I take the pain alone. Nobody else needs to get into the fracas except when I am accused of "inappropriately speaking for the silent majority"...

Frater Perdurabo
05-24-2004, 08:38 PM
I'm not a huige FOV, but I do think that the Sox will need Valentin, Uribe and Harris this year. I think that trading Valentin at this point could come back to haunt the Sox later this season, especially if Harris or Uribe cools off. If either of them goes into a prolonged slump or gets injured, what, exactly, do the Sox do then? Call up Kelly Dransfeldt? Wow, there's a terrific solution!

Valentin also is the only left-handed bat with power in the Sox lineup right now. I'd much rather they move Lee or Konerko and add left-handed hitting rather than subtract it.

Now, if trading Valentin indirectly got the Sox a legitimate ace and a legitimate left-handed hitting CF in trades, then of course he's expendable. But he is not worthless to the Sox right now.

pearso66
05-24-2004, 10:06 PM
I like Valentin, but he is in no way worth another 2 years at $10 mil. I think we sign him for 1 mil next year to back up uribe and Harris.

And I wont even get into the Crash talk, I am a FOC (Foe of crash)

Tragg
05-24-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I think it would be smart of the Sox to offer Valentin a 2yr/$10M contract extension right now. My grand plan would then put Uribe at short and Valentin at second beginning in 2005. 2 years, $4 million

idseer
05-24-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I agree, you don't send him packing, but no way do you give him $10 mil for 2 yrs.

i think 10 years for $2 mil makes a lot more sense. :smile:

OurBitchinMinny
05-24-2004, 10:17 PM
No way do you give Jose 2 years 10 mill. He is a human K who may have good range, but boots the simple balls. Maybe Harris isnt the answer, but he is younger and cheaper.

And on another subject.....people who for whatever reason think aaron rowand is a starting CF. It was one game and everyone on the team hit. He went 4-7 and is still under .250. Put together a few weeks like that and maybe you dont get your ass sent to charlotte.

FarWestChicago
05-25-2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by bobj4400
LOL! :)


FOV and FOC are showing themselves now!:?: FOV's are Friends of Versatile.

:versatile

I'm not even on the team. Are my guys still representing?

FarWestChicago
05-25-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
I'm not a huige FOV :versatile

What did I ever do to you?

:manos

I think he meant BOM, Backers of Manos, loser.

RedPinStripes
05-25-2004, 07:01 AM
I'm glad i dont do drugs.

Iguana775
05-25-2004, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's silly to suggest that Harris is even close to the player Valentin is.

Jose, is that you??!!

cornball
05-25-2004, 07:46 AM
Sorry been busy lately......but when I saw this and stopped laughing.

Time to get past the Jose era at any price.

34 Inch Stick
05-25-2004, 12:00 PM
If you don't think that Uribe and Harris have ALREADY been penciled in as next years SS and 2B by JR's accountants then you simply do not know the White Sox.

The only way to keep Magglio is to free up money. Losing Koch and Valentin go a long way towards making the numbers work. Either Lee or Konerko will probably also have to go. I think it will be a lot easier to deal Konerko with one year left on the contract than it has been with 2.

Randar68
05-25-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
If you don't think that Uribe and Harris have ALREADY been penciled in as next years SS and 2B by JR's accountants then you simply do not know the White Sox.

The only way to keep Magglio is to free up money. Losing Koch and Valentin go a long way towards making the numbers work. Either Lee or Konerko will probably also have to go. I think it will be a lot easier to deal Konerko with one year left on the contract than it has been with 2.

1) To deal Konerko, you still need an everyday 1B
2) Konerko's money won't hurt because of the long-term effect. Any Maggs contract will almost certainly have some kind of escalating salary to it and the long-term dollars are more important than worrying about the 1-year cost of Konerko.

Almost everyone who makes anything will be (or could be) gone by the end of 2006 as it currently sits. Long-term flexibility is there. We'll see what happens...

wdelaney72
05-25-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Because the this thread sucks guy has been overused, I will lay off him and......


Oh forget it......

A HUGE.......
:threadsucks

I agree. Jose sucks and I want him traded ASAP.

BKozi
05-25-2004, 09:50 PM
Valentin is 4 for 4 tonight...in K's....quick, sign him to an extension before he gets away!

FarmerAndy
05-26-2004, 08:01 AM
The thing that was great about Valentin a few years ago was that he was great in the clutch. But that was awhile ago, and people really need to get over their love affair with this guy. 2000 was 4 years ago.

Jose hasn't come up in key situations like he has in the past. He'll have a 4-4 night in a game where we are already ahead by 10 runs, but he's not delivering when we really need it. He's no longer a spark plug that will ignite the rest of the offense.

My problem is that the Sox were cruising before Valentin came off the D.L., and then we went into a funk when he came back. Not that it was directly his fault, but we already had a set lineup that was producing. In my opinion, if you get injured, and the guy who takes your place is on fire, then that's just tough luck. Sorry.

Harris and Uribe were playing good defense at 2B/SS and providing a good spark at the top of the order. And I think Ozzie goofed up a bit by handing Valentin back the starting job without having to earn it. You have to play the hot hands and stick with what works. Jose should have been in a utility role, until Harris or Uribe started to slide. Ever since Jose came back, we've seen a Jerry Manuel style revolving line-up. The results haven't been as consistent as they were with the more set linup we had when Jose was out.

He will be imposible to trade, because he's not worth the money he makes. I think he'd be a good guy to have on the bench, but not as an everyday SS.

bobj4400
05-26-2004, 09:00 AM
I think last night's game is all the proof we need to debunk the title of this thread. What a joke. He looked like a blindfolded drunk at the plate last night.

jeremyb1
05-26-2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
I think last night's game is all the proof we need to debunk the title of this thread. What a joke. He looked like a blindfolded drunk at the plate last night.

This is a really good line of argumentation being used in this thread and the other thread on Jose. We should do this with the MVP. MLB should go back and look at the game tape of each MVP after the writers vote and if he had a game where he looked bad at the plate and didn't have a hit over the course of the season, strip him of the award.