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lowesox
05-24-2004, 12:58 AM
Billy Koch has me worried. It seems as though he's not very dependable and usually shakey, but ends up getting the job done. What if he does this all season? Would you be comfortable with Koch closing games for us in the playoffs?

I know everybody thinks we need another starter and another CF, but I think we could use a serious upgrade in the closer department too. Maybe, moreso than at any other spot. After all, we have about 5 guys vying for that number 5 spot. Surely, one will be adequate. And it looks as though Willie Harris or a platoon of Rowand and Timo could solve our CF problems.

Just something to consider since this looks as though it could be a playoff caliber team.

JRIG
05-24-2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Billy Koch has me worried. It seems as though he's not very dependable and usually shakey, but ends up getting the job done. What if he does this all season? Would you be comfortable with Koch closing games for us in the playoffs?

I know everybody thinks we need another starter and another CF, but I think we could use a serious upgrade in the closer department too. Maybe, moreso than at any other spot. After all, we have about 5 guys vying for that number 5 spot. Surely, one will be adequate. And it looks as though Willie Harris or a platoon of Rowand and Timo could solve our CF problems.

Just something to consider since this looks as though it could be a playoff caliber team.

Well, Koch isn't going anywhere. So I think the real question is, do you feel comfortable with:

Marte
Wunsch
Jackson
Politte
Cotts
Takatsu

I certainly don't. Give me Marte and Wunsch. I have doubts/questions/can they keep it up problems with the rest of thetm, mainly Jackson and Takatsu. Call me nuts, but I think Politte will be OK. But there's a reason Jackson was out of baseball last year and I worry about Takatsu going throug the league a second time. To answer your question, yes, we need another arm. But it doesn't have to be a "closer." My gut tells me Guillen is smart enough to go with Marte if we ever really needed him to close one out.

Navaro's Talent
05-24-2004, 01:03 AM
I'm not too sure just yet. Personally, I think Koch will get better and better as the season goes on. By July, I wouldn't be surprised if his velocity was up. I too get worried when he is in games, but he does get the job done regardless. If his velocity isn't up by the All-Star break, maybe we should start worrying. If he is doing well, I say leave him alone. I heard people say that getting Eddie Guardado would be a great idea, but I don't think we need him. If Koch doesn't work out, Shingo will.

Navaro's Talent
05-24-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
Well, Koch isn't going anywhere. So I think the real question is, do you feel comfortable with:

Marte
Wunsch
Jackson
Politte
Cotts
Takatsu

I certainly don't. Give me Marte and Wunsch. I have doubts/questions/can they keep it up problems with the rest of thetm, mainly Jackson and Takatsu. Call me nuts, but I think Politte will be OK. But there's a reason Jackson was out of baseball last year and I worry about Takatsu going throug the league a second time. To answer your question, yes, we need another arm. But it doesn't have to be a "closer." My gut tells me Guillen is smart enough to go with Marte if we ever really needed him to close one out.

I don't think Shingo will have a problem the second time through the league. He played in a league in which he pitched against the same teams over and over again for many years and they were never able to figure him out. I could be wrong, but I think there were only 12 teams in the league he played, and I read an article in which he said that everyone knew everyone else in the league. He should be fine.

doublem23
05-24-2004, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by Navaro's Talent
I don't think Shingo will have a problem the second time through the league. He played in a league in which he pitched against the same teams over and over again for many years and they were never able to figure him out. I could be wrong, but I think there were only 12 teams in the league he played, and I read an article in which he said that everyone knew everyone else in the league. He should be fine.

I agree. My "worried" list in order of least to most for the bullpen is...

1) Damaso Marte
2) Shingo Takatsu
3) Jon Adkins
4) Neal Cotts
5) Kelly Wunsch
6) Cliff Politte
7) Mike Jackson
8) Billy Koch

lowesox
05-24-2004, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I agree. My "worried" list in order of least to most for the bullpen is...

1) Damaso Marte
2) Shingo Takatsu
3) Jon Adkins
4) Neal Cotts
5) Kelly Wunsch
6) Cliff Politte
7) Mike Jackson
8) Billy Koch

I'd swap Adkins with Wunsch, and lower Jackson a little bit but otherwise I think that list is pretty acurate in my mind.

doublem23
05-24-2004, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
I'd swap Adkins with Wunsch, and lower Jackson a little bit but otherwise I think that list is pretty acurate in my mind.

I probably will lower Kelly as time goes on, but he's fresh out of the minors so he's going to have to show me he's his old self before I can become more confident in him.

OurBitchinMinny
05-24-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I probably will lower Kelly as time goes on, but he's fresh out of the minors so he's going to have to show me he's his old self before I can become more confident in him.

What has marte shown you to be your least worry out of the pen? As of the last two weeks I actually feel calmer when koch is out there (I know this probably wont last long). I also think shingo is going to get murdered as the season goes along and teams gameplan for him more. He gives up a lot of flyballs to the track. Its not a great bullpen by any means. Every guy has plenty of weaknesses. But finding a #5 starters, or else at top of the line starter, making garland the default #5 starter should be priority #1. It looks like lee is turning it around. If only rowand could be as good everyday as he was today.

#1 starting pitching
#2 CFer (prefferably a LH bat)
#3 Bullpen help (any help would be great)

JRIG
05-24-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
I'd swap Adkins with Wunsch, and lower Jackson a little bit but otherwise I think that list is pretty acurate in my mind.

Geez, forgot about Adkins. He's on my worried list too. Allowing 2 baserunners an inning will do that to you.

lowesox
05-24-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I probably will lower Kelly as time goes on, but he's fresh out of the minors so he's going to have to show me he's his old self before I can become more confident in him.

Fair enough. My concern with Adkins is that he was lights out to start the year, but his ERA seems to be rising slowly. Hopefully it'll settle in around the 3.25 area. That'd be nice from a rookie.

I love what I've seen from Jackson so far. In fact, I'd say that he's been our most consistent guy since the begining of spring. I'm assuming your concern stemms from his age and history of spending time on the DL?

JRIG
05-24-2004, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
If only rowand could be as good everyday as he was today.



He would be if opposing teams had left handed starters every game.

jeremyb1
05-24-2004, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by Navaro's Talent
I don't think Shingo will have a problem the second time through the league. He played in a league in which he pitched against the same teams over and over again for many years and they were never able to figure him out.

He posted an ERA of 4 last season. I'd say that's figuring him out compared to his lower ERAs earlier in his career. Clearly Japanese hitters are nowhere near on par with MLB hittes so, you have to ask yourself, what is the equivalent of an ERA of 4 in Japan in the majors?

mdep524
05-24-2004, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Billy Koch has me worried. It seems as though he's not very dependable and usually shakey, but ends up getting the job done. What if he does this all season? Would you be comfortable with Koch closing games for us in the playoffs?

I am not comfortable with Koch at all, and I don't really think that will change. Without his blazing heater, I still don't think he has an out pitch--and teams will take advantage of that in tight situations. Plus the Twins beat him in the playoffs two years ago, when he was on the top of his game. I find it hard to justify having him as a major league closer on a contending team.

I'm not rooting against him, but I think its fools gold to think he'll be able to get the job done consistently and in pressure spots all season, and I am cringing at the fact that people here and KW and Ozzie are gaining confidence in him based on his recent performance. That is just going to give him a longer leash to screw up and be excused in the coming months...

soxtalker
05-24-2004, 09:01 AM
I think that there's a good chance that Takatsu will be our closer by the end of the season. He's probably been the most consistent so far. The only exception, I believe, was his first outing in NY. However, those of you who have the concern that the batters will figure him out have a legitimate concern. Time will tell.

gosox41
05-24-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Billy Koch has me worried. It seems as though he's not very dependable and usually shakey, but ends up getting the job done. What if he does this all season? Would you be comfortable with Koch closing games for us in the playoffs?

I know everybody thinks we need another starter and another CF, but I think we could use a serious upgrade in the closer department too. Maybe, moreso than at any other spot. After all, we have about 5 guys vying for that number 5 spot. Surely, one will be adequate. And it looks as though Willie Harris or a platoon of Rowand and Timo could solve our CF problems.

Just something to consider since this looks as though it could be a playoff caliber team.

OF course the Sox need another closer as long as Billy-Boy is our option. But there are bigger holes to fill then a one inning pitcher, like a 5th starter or a CFer or finding a left handed bat that can get on base a ton.


Bob

mcfish
05-24-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Billy Koch has me worried. It seems as though he's not very dependable and usually shakey, but ends up getting the job done. What if he does this all season? Would you be comfortable with Koch closing games for us in the playoffs?

I know everybody thinks we need another starter and another CF, but I think we could use a serious upgrade in the closer department too. Maybe, moreso than at any other spot. After all, we have about 5 guys vying for that number 5 spot. Surely, one will be adequate. And it looks as though Willie Harris or a platoon of Rowand and Timo could solve our CF problems.

Just something to consider since this looks as though it could be a playoff caliber team.

I have been worried about Koch for a year and a half now, but I have more confidence in him now than I had a month ago. While he has been making things interesting at times, he hasn't actually blown a save since Apr. 23, and we won that game. He has 6 saves since then, and his last save featured a 1-2-3 inning with 3 K's. Him coming into a 17-6 game and giving up 1 run does not really worry me. I have criticized him here in the past, and he has given me many a nervous moment, but I'm starting to be of the opinion "let's see what he can do and start to worry when he actually loses us a game."

OEO Magglio
05-24-2004, 05:38 PM
I was hoping these Billy Koch threads would just go away already. Why does this come back up because he allowed a homer in an eleven run game?? Billy has never been the type of closer that goes in there and has a 1,2,3 inning and most closers aren't. He's 7 for 8 in save opportunities, get off Billy already, he's done his job.

depy48
05-24-2004, 05:38 PM
we wont need a closer if we win big every game, and thats the road i want to take!

lowesox
05-25-2004, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
I was hoping these Billy Koch threads would just go away already. Why does this come back up because he allowed a homer in an eleven run game?? Billy has never been the type of closer that goes in there and has a 1,2,3 inning and most closers aren't. He's 7 for 8 in save opportunities, get off Billy already, he's done his job.

Actually, I started this thread because until this weekend, I wasn't convinced that the White Sox were a playoff-caliber team. Now I am. It had nothing to do with giving up a homerun. In fact, the 7/8 saves, has a lot more to do with it. My concern is that Billy (who lets face it, isn't what he used to be physically) will slide through the season and then implode in the playoffs.

Yes, he's done his job - but, as I've said before, a good GM should be a fortune teller. Sometimes, that means ignoring statistics.