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kermittheefrog
05-21-2004, 03:14 PM
http://slate.msn.com/id/2100895/

It's an interesting article. They point out the only guy who has gone on to have a career after labrum surgery is Rocky Biddle. Of course this relates back to Jon Rauch, a favorite topic of debate around here. It's stuff like this which leaves me firmly in the "Rauch will never be successful in the majors" camp.

SoxxoS
05-21-2004, 03:28 PM
He pitched another quality start yesterday...I think he has only one bad start all season.

SoxxoS
05-21-2004, 03:32 PM
This is also a great read from USA today about Tommy John...there are a lot of White Sox quotes in there. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2003-07-28-cover-tommy-john_x.htm)

Shocking.

mac9001
05-21-2004, 03:34 PM
Rauch never threw more than 93-94 even in his prime, so the velocity isn't that big of a deal and his breaking stuff is about the same now as before. Plus, i think Rauch only had a partial Labrum tear.

Dadawg_77
05-21-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
http://slate.msn.com/id/2100895/

It's an interesting article. They point out the only guy who has gone on to have a career after labrum surgery is Rocky Biddle. Of course this relates back to Jon Rauch, a favorite topic of debate around here. It's stuff like this which leaves me firmly in the "Rauch will never be successful in the majors" camp.

Medical procedures are improving all the time. This is one reason to hope that pitchers with labrum tears will be able to recover.

Randar68
05-21-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by mac9001
Rauch never threw more than 93-94 even in his prime, so the velocity isn't that big of a deal and his breaking stuff is about the same now as before. Plus, i think Rauch only had a partial Labrum tear.

Rauch's injury was more serious than was ever puplicly released, as it turns out. There are a couple of people who post and read this site very close to the situation, and it comes from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

kermittheefrog
05-21-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by mac9001
Rauch never threw more than 93-94 even in his prime, so the velocity isn't that big of a deal and his breaking stuff is about the same now as before. Plus, i think Rauch only had a partial Labrum tear.

Did you even read the article?

mac9001
05-21-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Did you even read the article?

Yes i did and IMO Rauch has recovered physically, if anything keeps him from becoming a solid major league pitcher it's the mental aspect of the game.

kermittheefrog
05-21-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by mac9001
Yes i did and IMO Rauch has recovered physically, if anything keeps him from becoming a solid major league pitcher it's the mental aspect of the game.

So you think the fact that his numbers since the surgery don't even begin to resemble his numbers pre-surgery is because his mental game fell apart not because he suffered an injury that ruined the careers of 35 of 36 documented cases?

Dadawg_77
05-21-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
So you think the fact that his numbers since the surgery don't even begin to resemble his numbers pre-surgery is because his mental game fell apart not because he suffered an injury that ruined the careers of 35 of 36 documented cases?

Man statistics can prove what ever your want. I mean 2 closers had the injury and one returned in same form he was before he left.

kermittheefrog
05-21-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Man statistics can prove what ever your want. I mean 2 closers had the injury and one returned in same form he was before he left.

Is Biddle really still the Expos closer? I still don't know what BP was thinking when they said the Expos were due to improve after losing Guerrero and Vazquez.

jeremyb1
05-21-2004, 04:41 PM
I agree the labrum has become a kiss of death for most players but I think Rauch probably falls in the success category more than most guys. He was hitting 94 on the gun against the Twins in his first year back from surgery. I'm inclined to believe he's still suffered - perhaps his pitches has lost life or something - but he's been a lot more successful than someone like Parque.

kermittheefrog
05-21-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I agree the labrum has become a kiss of death for most players but I think Rauch probably falls in the success category more than most guys. He was hitting 94 on the gun against the Twins in his first year back from surgery. I'm inclined to believe he's still suffered - perhaps his pitches has lost life or something - but he's been a lot more successful than someone like Parque.

I don't think we can take one game where he hit 94 and say that means he's okay. There was a point when everyone said Howry's velocity was back, Howry isn't in the league anymore. It's clear that Rauch has lost something, it doesn't matter if its velocity, command, deception. Whatever he had that made him virtually unhittable is long gone. At this point his upside looks like mid rotation starter but I wouldn't even call that likely.

daveeym
05-21-2004, 04:53 PM
Well having had both surgeries the recovery for the labrum surgery is much more pesky. You can start throwing much earlier but it's much more painful when you start throwing again, screws with your release alot more (makes it difficult to get the arm up over your shoulder) and in most cases they remove the bursa sac as well which reduces the cushioning in the shoulder even more.

Dadawg_77
05-21-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by daveeym
Well having had both surgeries the recovery for the labrum surgery is much more pesky. You can start throwing much earlier but it's much more painful when you start throwing again, screws with your release alot more (makes it difficult to get the arm up over your shoulder) and in most cases they remove the bursa sac as well which reduces the cushioning in the shoulder even more.

Question did you try to play competive baseball after the surgery?
Not meant as a mocking question, just never had either, so just wondering if you had a first person tale of it.