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Irishsox1
05-20-2004, 10:58 AM
In December 2001, the White Sox traded Chris Singleton and Jon Garland to the Angels for Darrin Erstad. The trade was nixed at the last second by the former head of the Angels (Disney), who said they wanted a bigger name in return for someone as popular as Erstad. This is the trade that will always cause me to question Kenny Williams. At the time Erstad had a history of health problems, he did have a great post season for the Angels in 2002, but he is hurt again and most likely done for this season. Garland had and still does have tremendous potential and is finally showing some of that this year.

Thank Disney every time Garland pitches like he did on Tuesday.

fquaye149
05-20-2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
In December 2001, the White Sox traded Chris Singleton and Jon Garland to the Angels for Darrin Erstad. The trade was nixed at the last second by the former head of the Angels (Disney), who said they wanted a bigger name in return for someone as popular as Erstad. This is the trade that will always cause me to question Kenny Williams. At the time Erstad had a history of health problems, he did have a great post season for the Angels in 2002, but he is hurt again and most likely done for this season. Garland had and still does have tremendous potential and is finally showing some of that this year.

Thank Disney every time Garland pitches like he did on Tuesday.


or curse tehm when you think what erstad could have done. . .who's to say he wouldn't have been good here?

personally I don't like erstad, but a lot of people think he's pretty decent. a player like that can sometimes be the difference (shannon stewart.)

but who knows, there's no point in thinking about it

Fungo
05-20-2004, 11:17 AM
The Angels won the World Series that year. Who knows what could have happened if they pulled the trigger on that one. I'm sure they thank themselves everyday for not making the trade as well.

wsgdf
05-20-2004, 11:19 AM
Was that the winter of 2000 or the winter of 2001 that happened?

Anyway, the purpose of the trade was KW thought we had a chance to win that season.

Years later Garland's just now apparently pulling things together.

In my opinion that failed trade does not reflect poorly on KW.

To think that, then you'd also have to think KW grossly undervalued Garland and/or Singleton. Considering Singleton is out of baseball (correct me if I'm wrong) and Garland is just now beginning to pull it together as a middle rotation starter, I'd say he didn't.

hawkeyesrule
05-20-2004, 11:20 AM
I remember a trade rumor around 1997 or 1998 that would have sent Frank Thomas to Colorado for a young first baseman named Todd Helton...wish that would have gotten done!!

ozzman
05-20-2004, 11:38 AM
or Black Jack for the Unit

TDog
05-20-2004, 11:38 AM
The agreed-to Garland-Erstad deal was killed before the Ritchie deal went through. As I understand it, the Sox would not have traded Wells if they had traded Garland, although Sean Lowe certainly would have gone somewhere.

Brian26
05-20-2004, 11:41 AM
Who is to say Garland would have ever panned out in Anaheim like he finally is this year with the Sox? The trade doesn't reflect poorly or favorably on Kenny. It's just an interesting tidbit.

Gammons Peter
05-20-2004, 11:43 AM
Wasn't Chris Singleton traded for Willie Harris??

So would you rather have Harris and Jon Garland or Darrin Erstad

JRIG
05-20-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Who is to say Garland would have ever panned out in Anaheim like he finally is this year with the Sox? The trade doesn't reflect poorly or favorably on Kenny. It's just an interesting tidbit.

I think KW's continued fascination with aquiring Erstad does reflect poorly on him. It seems evey offseason we hear of another possible deal to swing Erstad to the South Side. He's simply not a very good player.

That said, a deal has never gone down, so I can't complain too much I suppose.

Randar68
05-20-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by ozzman
or Black Jack for the Unit

Or the Rocket in FA instead of Jaime...

What's the point of this again?

hawkeyesrule
05-20-2004, 11:45 AM
Singelton was traded for Willie Harris. I'll take Free Willie and Garland any day over Erstad. I like Erstad's attitude, though. His production and salary make me want to stay away from him.

munchman33
05-20-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Gammons Peter
Wasn't Chris Singleton traded for Willie Harris??

So would you rather have Harris and Jon Garland or Darrin Erstad

I would, without a single doubt in my mind, rather have Darrin Erstad and Kip Wells instead of Willy Harris and Jon Garland.

Brian26
05-20-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
I would, without a single doubt in my mind, rather have Darrin Erstad and Kip Wells instead of Willy Harris and Jon Garland.

I'd take Willie and Jon in a second over the other two.

SSN721
05-20-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I'd take Willie and Jon in a second over the other two.

AS would I, withouut a single doubt in my mind.

thepaulbowski
05-20-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Or the Rocket in FA instead of Jaime...

What's the point of this again?


To make sure the horse is dead, I guess.

Paulwny
05-20-2004, 01:15 PM
I heard this a number of years ago during a yankmee radio broadcast. The broacaster mentioned that Bernie Williams may not have been in pin stripes.
The sox/yanks had a deal where one of the players coming to the sox was minor leaguer Bernie Williams. Before the deal was finalized one of the soon to be traded players was injured, killing the deal.
The broadcaster never mentioned any of the other players who were part of this trade.

jeremyb1
05-20-2004, 06:01 PM
1) It's mind boggling to me that anyone would suggest Erstad for Garland would be anything less than an atrocious deal for the Sox with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Just because Erstad was the member of a championship team he's a major reason for that championship? Are you kidding? It doesn't take a close examination of Erstad's numbers to discern that his defense aside he was a detriment to winning a championship if anything. If every player that's ever won a championship is better than any player that hasn't, that could lead to some insane assumptions.

2) IIRC, the Wells and Garland deals were not supposed to be either/or. The Wells deal was to improve the team's pitching and the Garland deal was to add Erstad. I believe KW said as much in interviews during that offseason.

StillMissOzzie
05-21-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by ozzman
or Black Jack for the Unit

HA! If this trade ever DID happen, the Big Unit would have been long gone by now.


SMO

pearso66
05-21-2004, 02:13 AM
put me in the category of wanting willie and garland over erstadt and wells. I think Garland is the better pitcher, and Wells might still be crapping his pants if he was still with teh Sox.

gosox41
05-22-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
In December 2001, the White Sox traded Chris Singleton and Jon Garland to the Angels for Darrin Erstad. The trade was nixed at the last second by the former head of the Angels (Disney), who said they wanted a bigger name in return for someone as popular as Erstad. This is the trade that will always cause me to question Kenny Williams. At the time Erstad had a history of health problems, he did have a great post season for the Angels in 2002, but he is hurt again and most likely done for this season. Garland had and still does have tremendous potential and is finally showing some of that this year.

Thank Disney every time Garland pitches like he did on Tuesday. You mean KW was going to come out on the losing end of a relatively big trade??? I've never seen that before.

It's a good thing Anaheim backed out of this trade because KW was all set to do it.


Bob

pearso66
05-22-2004, 12:14 AM
I hate looking back on trades, you have to take them for how they are at the time, no one can forsee the future and tell that there will be busts or not. IIRC there were a few peopel here unhappy that the trade was nixed.

jeremyb1
05-22-2004, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by pearso66
I hate looking back on trades, you have to take them for how they are at the time, no one can forsee the future and tell that there will be busts or not. IIRC there were a few peopel here unhappy that the trade was nixed.

You make a great point about evaluating trades with hindsight. However, that trade was awful when it was made. Erstad was having a terrible season and we had to sign him to an extension. I for one was not pleased at the time.

Kittle83ROY
05-22-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
I think KW's continued fascination with aquiring Erstad does reflect poorly on him. It seems evey offseason we hear of another possible deal to swing Erstad to the South Side. He's simply not a very good player.

That said, a deal has never gone down, so I can't complain too much I suppose.

What the hell are you talking about? After the 2002 season when the Angels won the WS, there was NO talk about the White Sox getting Erstad. The Angels did basically nothing to the team that won the WS.

After the 2003 season when Erstad got injuried again and missed a lot of games there wasn't any trade talks.

There is no continued fascination with Erstad. He had one great year 2000 when he hit 350 or so. But since then injuries have done him in. KW got him in a trade then the Angels backed out.

If Erstad can stay healthy, a big IF, he's a good player, certainly not a 350 hitter. And I don't see Garland's name mentioned with the Prior's, Beckett's, and Woods as good young pitchers.

gosox41
05-22-2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by pearso66
I hate looking back on trades, you have to take them for how they are at the time, no one can forsee the future and tell that there will be busts or not. IIRC there were a few peopel here unhappy that the trade was nixed.

As down as I was on Garland at the time, I was thrilled to see the trade nixed. Erstad has to be one of the most overrated players in baseball. To trade young starting pitching for him and then sign him to the $8 mill. per year extension that was being talked about at the time surely would have been KW's second sorriest moment as GM of the Sox.


Bob

pearso66
05-22-2004, 12:09 PM
I was one that was glad it was nixed also, I was just stating there were a few people here that wanted the trade to go through. I don't know if they are still here or if they will even speak up, but I seem to remember people wanting the trade, as we would have a CF for the time being