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bobj4400
05-19-2004, 02:46 PM
Could the Blue Jays give us a chance to pick up another game tonight?

5-2 Jays in the top 8th...

batmanZoSo
05-19-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Could the Blue Jays give us a chance to pick up another game tonight?

5-2 Jays in the top 8th...

That would be BIG

rahulsekhar
05-19-2004, 02:54 PM
It goes to the bottom of the 8th 5-2. We'll likely see Terry "gascan" Adams. You know a team has it bad when they'd likely deal for Koch in a heartbeat to shore up their closer position.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
It goes to the bottom of the 8th 5-2. We'll likely see Terry "gascan" Adams. You know a team has it bad when they'd likely deal for Koch in a heartbeat to shore up their closer position.

:gascan

bobj4400
05-19-2004, 03:01 PM
Gas Can Adams has already allowed the leadoff man to reach in the 9th...

DaveIsHere
05-19-2004, 03:02 PM
Are you sre you are not watching the Sox

bobj4400
05-19-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Gas Can Adams has already allowed the leadoff man to reach in the 9th...

2 on, 1 out. the great henry blanco at the plate.

sas1974
05-19-2004, 03:03 PM
Make that TWO baserunners. It was a jinx to start this thread before a final IMO.

CHISOXFAN13
05-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Are you kidding me? Geez, a soft grounder and they are loaded all of a sudden.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Good job Bob. Twins are never out of it. We couldnt even get a HIT off of Adams at home or away.

Mickster
05-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Bases loaded, 1 out for the Twinkies, top 9, Twins down 5-2!

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:06 PM
Unreal. Thats why that team beast us EVERY FREAKIN YEAR

CHISOXFAN13
05-19-2004, 03:06 PM
Please never start a thread like this again. I'm serious.

rahulsekhar
05-19-2004, 03:06 PM
Out of curiosity, is this the same Terry Adams - the ex-Cub closer?

Mickster
05-19-2004, 03:06 PM
GRAND SLAM TWINS! Leading 6-5!

Jerko
05-19-2004, 03:07 PM
Fat Konerko (LeCroy) with a granny. Not to say Konerko hits grannys, but LeCroy makes him look fast.

SoxFan78
05-19-2004, 03:07 PM
UNBELIEVABLE

sas1974
05-19-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Out of curiosity, is this the same Terry Adams - the ex-Cub closer?

The same.

CHISOXFAN13
05-19-2004, 03:07 PM
Let's take this to chat and hope we can get the Jays to rally in the ninth.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:07 PM
WE COULDNT EVEN HIT THIS GUY. Unreal

bobj4400
05-19-2004, 03:08 PM
I take full responsibility for the Twins scoring 4 runs off Gas Can Adams in the 9th.

DaveIsHere
05-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
GRAND SLAM TWINS! Leading 6-5!

You have to be kidding

Chisox353014
05-19-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
It was a jinx to start this thread before a final IMO.

Exactly.

Fat F&^&*^ LeCroy? Give me a break! Thanks a lot Adams, you loser ex-Cub!

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:09 PM
They never give up. What an unreal team. they had ONE bench player today and FIVE of their regulars hurt and they still won. We dont gotta chance.

Iwritecode
05-19-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Please never start a thread like this again. I'm serious.

No kidding...

Hey Daver, where's that elephant gun? I think I found a use for it...

Cubbiesuck13
05-19-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
They never give up. What an unreal team. they had ONE bench player today and FIVE of their regulars hurt and they still won. We dont gotta chance.


any team with four regulars hurt has a good chance to loose. even against us.

Hondo
05-19-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
I take full responsibility for the Twins scoring 4 runs off Gas Can Adams in the 9th.


You bet your ass you do.

Twins win 6-5.

White Sox trail 2.5

Seriously, don't be a jinx.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:20 PM
We're screwed. They're destined. What can you do? It'll be a miracle if we can win 2 games this weekend.

rahulsekhar
05-19-2004, 03:21 PM
Sheesh, this is ridiculous. Anyone know how many of these types of games they've won in the past few years? Doesn't that go against all the various studies that show that performance in 1-run games is luck?

So - who's in charge of the "When does Satan comes to collect Ron Gardenhire's soul" pool?

bobj4400
05-19-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
You bet your ass you do.

Twins win 6-5.

White Sox trail 2.5

Seriously, don't be a jinx.


Wasnt jinxing. Just letting everyone know what the score was and situation. And if you really think that I had anything to do with the Twins scoring 4 in the ninth, you really arent being rational...

BearSox
05-19-2004, 03:21 PM
:chunks
Thanks a lot Terry Adams! :angry:

bobj4400
05-19-2004, 03:22 PM
and if the sox lose tonight, I guess that is my fault too...

Hondo
05-19-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Wasnt jinxing. Just letting everyone know what the score was and situation. And if you really think that I had anything to do with the Twins scoring 4 in the ninth, you really arent being rational...

whatever. If I had my ouija board and magic 8 ball out they would have lost.
I was just busting your chops.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 03:23 PM
Don't worry because when we win tonight and take 3 of four in minnesota we'll be back into a tie for first.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Don't worry because when we win tonight and take 3 of four in minnesota we'll be back into a tie for first.

LOL.................LOL

That's all I can think to say.

I'd gladly eat some crow though.

SoxFan78
05-19-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Sheesh, this is ridiculous. Anyone know how many of these types of games they've won in the past few years? Doesn't that go against all the various studies that show that performance in 1-run games is luck?

So - who's in charge of the "When does Satan comes to collect Ron Gardenhire's soul" pool?

Lets just hope that all of these one-run, come from behind wins will run out before the race gets tight later on.

Lets hope...

Irishsox1
05-19-2004, 03:26 PM
This is the best Twins team I have seen in the last 3 years. And I guess they are going to get better when Koskie and that catcher come back. I don't buy that the Sox have more talent than this Twins team. This Twins team is better than the White Sox in every aspect. This is going to be three years in a row behind them.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
This is the best Twins team I have seen in the last 3 years. And I guess they are going to get better when Koskie and that catcher come back. I don't buy that the Sox have more talent than this Twins team. This Twins team is better than the White Sox in every aspect. This is going to be three years in a row behind them. They aren't better in every aspect, just the most important one, playing together. We're learning though.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:32 PM
The biggest thing is that when we were close and down in three close games at the SKYDome, we gave up and didn't have a chance against Adams. Twins touched him up twice at the SkyDome and once in Minny, while we couldnt even sniff a hit off of him.

That team just doesnt give up. THey are so much better than us in every aspect that it is sickening.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
LOL.................LOL

That's all I can think to say.

I'd gladly eat some crow though.

I think this team is ready to make a statement like that. The pitching looks pretty darn good and if Neal Cotts and Jon Adkins can combine for a quality start we'll be in good shape too. The key is scoring at least 4 runs. I predict that every game that we score 4 runs in that we'll win. I think it wont be too tough this time around scoring four runs on Bradke, Silva, Greisinger and Santana. We killed Silva last time around. Santana's been getting killed by everyone. We've done pretty well against Bradke in the past and there's no way that Greisinger will have a repeat performance.
Loaiza's been throwing pretty well, Garland has been practically unhittable recently, ditto Buehrle and Cotts and Adkins have been pretty good in relief and should be able to carry it over to a three inning stint. I dont see us losing the Buehrle or Garland games the way they've been pitching and then it's just a matter of taking 1 out of the other two.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I think this team is ready to make a statement like that. The pitching looks pretty darn good and if Neal Cotts and Jon Adkins can combine for a quality start we'll be in good shape too. The key is scoring at least 4 runs. I predict that every game that we score 4 runs in that we'll win. I think it wont be too tough this time around scoring four runs on Bradke, Silva, Greisinger and Santana. We killed Silva last time around. Santana's been getting killed by everyone. We've done pretty well against Bradke in the past and there's no way that Greisinger will have a repeat performance.
Loaiza's been throwing pretty well, Garland has been practically unhittable recently, ditto Buehrle and Cotts and Adkins have been pretty good in relief and should be able to carry it over to a three inning stint. I dont see us losing the Buehrle or Garland games the way they've been pitching and then it's just a matter of taking 1 out of the other two.

Like I said, I hope you are right, and I will gladly eat all of my words if we win a couple, or even 3. I'm just praying that we dont get swept. I've seen some awful things in the Twinkie dome. Hell, I've seen awful things everywhere with the Twins. They just dont give up.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
This is the best Twins team I have seen in the last 3 years. And I guess they are going to get better when Koskie and that catcher come back. I don't buy that the Sox have more talent than this Twins team. This Twins team is better than the White Sox in every aspect. This is going to be three years in a row behind them.

No there's no way this team is better than the 2002 Twins team that won 94 games. first of alll, they're not better than the WHite Sox, they're just better situational hitters, which counts for a lot. At some point the 2-3 run comeback wins just stop happening because it's impossible that 3 consecutive hitters with a .300 average will always get three straight hits in the late innings. Just as an example of how flukey they are just look to Jose Offerman. He's hitting .227 but is 6 for 14 (.429) in close and late situations. One of those will change and it's more likely to be that close and late batting average. The Twins team has an easier first half schedule and the Sox have an easier second half schedule like the Twins did last year. It's a role reversal which will lead the Twins to dissapointment in the first year that they were clear favorites and it will lead the White Sox to the AL Central championship. Just compare 2nd half schedules. The Twins havent beaten the Yankees in the regular season since may 10th, 2001 and they play them 3 games for their second to last series of the year.

What you're seeing now is an 86ish win team playing their best baseball of the year right now. If you want an example of what's going to happen to the Twins this year, see the Royals of last year. Remember when they looked unbeatable when they were 8.5 games ahead of us? Well we're only 2.5 games behind Minny and they look the same well. I think that things will bode well for us.

bobj4400
05-19-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
No there's no way this team is better than the 2002 Twins team that won 94 games. first of alll, they're not better than the WHite Sox, they're just better situational hitters, which counts for a lot. At some point the 2-3 run comeback wins just stop happening because it's impossible that 3 consecutive hitters with a .300 average will always get three straight hits in the late innings. Just as an example of how flukey they are just look to Jose Offerman. He's hitting .227 but is 6 for 14 (.429) in close and late situations. One of those will change and it's more likely to be that close and late batting average. The Twins team has an easier first half schedule and the Sox have an easier second half schedule like the Twins did last year. It's a role reversal which will lead the Twins to dissapointment in the first year that they were clear favorites and it will lead the White Sox to the AL Central championship. Just compare 2nd half schedules. The Twins havent beaten the Yankees in the regular season since may 10th, 2001 and they play them 3 games for their second to last series of the year.

What you're seeing now is an 86ish win team playing their best baseball of the year right now. If you want an example of what's going to happen to the Twins this year, see the Royals of last year. Remember when they looked unbeatable when they were 8.5 games ahead of us? Well we're only 2.5 games behind Minny and they look the same well. I think that things will bode well for us.

An optimistic Sox fan?? I didnt know any were made that way...

I hope you are right, but I am part of the more common species: the pessimistic Sox fan and for me the :chickenlittle

ChiSoxBobette
05-19-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Could the Blue Jays give us a chance to pick up another game tonight?

5-2 Jays in the top 8th...

Just checked the score on espn.com the twinkies scored 4 in the 9th to win it. Unfreekinbelievable!

ma-gaga
05-19-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
No there's no way this team is better than the 2002 Twins team that won 94 games. first of alll, they're not better than the WHite Sox
...
Just as an example of how flukey they are just look to Jose Offerman.
...
The Twins team has an easier first half schedule and the Sox have an easier second half schedule like the Twins did last year.
...
What you're seeing now is an 86ish win team playing their best baseball of the year right now. If you want an example of what's going to happen to the Twins this year, see the Royals of last year.

First off, this years Twins are nothing like the Royals of last year. The Royals had terrible pitching all of last year. ALL YEAR. The Twins are pitching the hell out of the ball. Against everyone they've faced. They lost 2 of 3 to Anaheim, but those games were entertaining as hell. 1-0, 3-2, 4-2 type games against that offense.

Schedule wise you are absolutely right. What you are seeing now is a continuation of last years post-all star break Twins who probably have the best major league record since then. damn, if they only hadn't dropped that final series against Detroit... They beat the teams they are supposed to beat. Like Tampa Bay, KC, and Cleveland.

Jose Offerman is a backup. Lew Ford is a backup, Michael Cuddyer is a backup. Mike Ryan is a backup. They are running out 4 backups every day. They have LeCroy catching instead of DH'ing. Yes, the backups are playing their asses off, but sometimes that's what happens.

We'll find out after the other 16 head to head games which team is better. We'll find out after the other 130+ games this year which team is better. It's too early to tell who's pitching is going to hold up. It's too early to tell who's offense is going to get better... But hey, project/conject away.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
No there's no way this team is better than the 2002 Twins team that won 94 games. first of alll, they're not better than the WHite Sox, they're just better situational hitters, which counts for a lot. At some point the 2-3 run comeback wins just stop happening because it's impossible that 3 consecutive hitters with a .300 average will always get three straight hits in the late innings. Just as an example of how flukey they are just look to Jose Offerman. He's hitting .227 but is 6 for 14 (.429) in close and late situations. One of those will change and it's more likely to be that close and late batting average. The Twins team has an easier first half schedule and the Sox have an easier second half schedule like the Twins did last year. It's a role reversal which will lead the Twins to dissapointment in the first year that they were clear favorites and it will lead the White Sox to the AL Central championship. Just compare 2nd half schedules. The Twins havent beaten the Yankees in the regular season since may 10th, 2001 and they play them 3 games for their second to last series of the year.

What you're seeing now is an 86ish win team playing their best baseball of the year right now. If you want an example of what's going to happen to the Twins this year, see the Royals of last year. Remember when they looked unbeatable when they were 8.5 games ahead of us? Well we're only 2.5 games behind Minny and they look the same well. I think that things will bode well for us.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of saying the TWins will stop playing well. It's fun and all to say, and it makes it seem like their could be a race in the division, but ever year they kick our butts and they don't stop playing well. That team is awesome, and is better than us in EVERY aspect except possibly Starting pitching. EVERY aspect.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
An optimistic Sox fan?? I didnt know any were made that way...

I hope you are right, but I am part of the more common species: the pessimistic Sox fan

Well I'm just not blindsided by our previous failures at least. It's a different situation from last year. We're not the Red Sox and the Twins are not the Yankees. I know this season is looking like 2002 to a lot of people, but the fact is that the Twins are a much weaker team than then and we're a stronger team. Remember we were dealing with Royce "the choice" Clayton and our leadoff guy Kenny Lofton hitting a paltry .259? Now replace that with Uribe and Harris and we're a billion times better at the top of the lineup. If we can win 3 of the next 5 then we're in fine shape and we should be able to do just that. We're like 12-2 in the last game of a series or something crazy like that.

I am really just looking at the whole thing from a realistic perspective. I am one who refuses to look at things and say "Here we go again" especially when this team is different from the 02 bunch and we have a different schedule than the 03 team that favors us more. I am looking at this team with objecitve optimism and when the Twins stop playing their best baseball of the year you'll thank me for reminding you of this

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I don't know about you, but I'm tired of saying the TWins will stop playing well. It's fun and all to say, and it makes it seem like their could be a race in the division, but ever year they kick our butts and they don't stop playing well. That team is awesome, and is better than us in EVERY aspect except possibly Starting pitching. EVERY aspect.

If the Twins win this division it's because the Sox failed to win 87 games. I dont see the Twins winning more than 86 games this year. Just a continuation of the trend that of losing players and losing 4 wins per year. Raise your hand if you think Joe Nathan is the next Eric Gagne. At this rate he practically will be. Raise your hand if you think the Twins bullpen is this good. Raise your hand if you think Seth Greisinger is a decent major league pitcher.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If the Twins win this division it's because the Sox failed to win 87 games. I dont see the Twins winning more than 86 games this year. Just a continuation of the trend that of losing players and losing 4 wins per year. Raise your hand if you think Joe Nathan is the next Eric Gagne. At this rate he practically will be. Raise your hand if you think the Twins bullpen is this good. Raise your hand if you think Seth Greisinger is a decent major league pitcher.

*Raises hand with much frustration*

I hate the Twins, but they are what they are.

elrod
05-19-2004, 04:15 PM
We need to knock the Twins off their perch. Literally. Pitch inside a lot. Hit a few of them. Anything to rile up our guys. The Sox started playing well against the Twins last year when it turned ugly. The worst thing that happens is the Sox get lax and allow the Twins to come back. They need to be intimidated and the only way to do that is to pitch inside. And I'm not talking about waiting until game four when we've lost the first three and it just looks like desperation and poor sporstsmanship. I'm talking about tomorrow.

pudge
05-19-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If the Twins win this division it's because the Sox failed to win 87 games. I dont see the Twins winning more than 86 games this year. Just a continuation of the trend that of losing players and losing 4 wins per year. Raise your hand if you think Joe Nathan is the next Eric Gagne. At this rate he practically will be. Raise your hand if you think the Twins bullpen is this good. Raise your hand if you think Seth Greisinger is a decent major league pitcher.

I bet you predicted 86 wins for them for the past three years. They're going over 90 this season.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
*Raises hand with much frustration*

I hate the Twins, but they are what they are.

And what they are is a group of overacheivers who dont have the talent to hang with the Sox for 162, especially with their tough schedule down the stretch. We have reversed roles with them from last year. They wont overacheive this year because they have much less talent to overacheive with, so while they will overacheive, it will provide them with less wins.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I bet you predicted 86 wins for them for the past three years. They're going over 90 this season.

Lightning does strike twice.

And besides, the law of averages eventually has to come and bit them in the rear. It's inevitable

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
And what they are is a group of overacheivers who dont have the talent to hang with the Sox for 162, especially with their tough schedule down the stretch. We have reversed roles with them from last year. They wont overacheive this year because they have much less talent to overacheive with, so while they will overacheive, it will provide them with less wins.

I hope your right, but that's what I've been telling myself for the past three years. Needless to say, this year I won't let myself fall into that trap.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I hope your right, but that's what I've been telling myself for the past three years. Needless to say, this year I won't let myself fall into that trap.

Fine, whine and mope all you want while you have a very unenjoyable summer watching this team. If you can't be realistically optimistic about this team then you're gonna have no fun watching them. If I was as pessimistic about the team as a lot of people here are I probably wouldn't waste my time following them as intensely as I do. I'd spend a lot more time on general MLB stuff.

Be pessimistic all you want but that's no fun. And yes I truly believe that this team is going to win the division. I'm not just saying that to give an air of optimism.

Hangar18
05-19-2004, 04:28 PM
*POOOOF* just like that..........the JAYS blow it and
the Twinks come back with 4 in the 9th to WIN again.

ChiSox7
05-19-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Fine, whine and mope all you want while you have a very unenjoyable summer watching this team. If you can't be realistically optimistic about this team then you're gonna have no fun watching them. If I was as pessimistic about the team as a lot of people here are I probably wouldn't waste my time following them as intensely as I do. I'd spend a lot more time on general MLB stuff.

Be pessimistic all you want but that's no fun. And yes I truly believe that this team is going to win the division. I'm not just saying that to give an air of optimism.

If it were a year or two ago I'd call it pessimism. At this point in my whitesox existence with the Twins that we have watched the last couple of years, I'd call it Realism.

I think we can win the division if all the cards fall the right way, but I think thats a lot of cards that have to fall all way.

jeremyb1
05-19-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
First off, this years Twins are nothing like the Royals of last year. The Royals had terrible pitching all of last year.

The Twins are pitching pretty well with a team ERA of 4.41 good for fifth in the AL but not nearly as well as we are in third with a team ERA of 4.13. The bigger reason they're doing so well if you ask me is their offense. They've scored 196 runs best for 5th in the AL. Strangely they've somehow done this with the 6th best average, 9th best OBP, and 8th best SLG. A lot of the explanation comes from their outstanding hitting with RISP and close and late. You can call this playing together but I call it luck and I don't expect it to last.

MRKARNO
05-19-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
The Twins are pitching pretty well with a team ERA of 4.41 good for fifth in the AL but not nearly as well as we are in third with a team ERA of 4.13. The bigger reason they're doing so well if you ask me is their offense. They've scored 196 runs best for 5th in the AL. Strangely they've somehow done this with the 6th best average, 9th best OBP, and 8th best SLG. A lot of the explanation comes from their outstanding hitting with RISP and close and late. You can call this playing together but I call it luck and I don't expect it to last.

I think we come from a very similar line of thinking.

SpartanSoxFan
05-19-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
LOL.................LOL

That's all I can think to say.

I'd gladly eat some crow though.

Do you enjoy being pessimistic??? Or just have a giant hard-on for the Twins???

samram
05-19-2004, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
The Twins are pitching pretty well with a team ERA of 4.41 good for fifth in the AL but not nearly as well as we are in third with a team ERA of 4.13. The bigger reason they're doing so well if you ask me is their offense. They've scored 196 runs best for 5th in the AL. Strangely they've somehow done this with the 6th best average, 9th best OBP, and 8th best SLG. A lot of the explanation comes from their outstanding hitting with RISP and close and late. You can call this playing together but I call it luck and I don't expect it to last.

I would like to be as optimistic as some here, but the number of times in this thread I have seen some variation of "same thing for the last three years" dims my outlook. You say the Twins are lucky, but remember the Sox built their record (which isn't great) on four or five last inning wins, which even the most optimistic fan would admit has a lot to do with luck. I'm certainly not giving up, but to think the Twins will suddenly fall on their faces due to either luck running out or their stats will catch up with them when they never have before, is hoping for too much. The Sox are going to have to win this division, not hope for the Twins to lose it.

fhqwhgads
05-19-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by samram
The Sox are going to have to win this division, not hope for the Twins to lose it.

Truer words were never spoken.

Win1ForMe
05-19-2004, 06:57 PM
Twins have a 5 run difference between Runs Scored (196) and Runs Allowed (191) and yet are 9 games above .500. And they're on pace for 99 victories. In 11 of their 24 wins (46%), the Twins have scored the go ahead run in the 8th, 9th, or extra innings.

By comparison, the Sox have a 20 run difference (190-170) with only 4 games above .500. In 5 of their 21 wins (24%), the Sox have scored the go ahead run in the 8th, 9th, or extra innings.

Nothing's changed, still the same teams.

I think people who see the Twins current record as some sort of hot streak or string of good fortune are in complete denial. They've been winning games like this for years, why in the world would things change now? At the beginning of the season I thought losing Guardado/Hawkins would put the Sox above the Twins. But Joe Nathan, of all people, seems to be as good, if not better, than both of those guys. They're definitely a mid-90 win team.

elrod
05-19-2004, 11:13 PM
Twins have a 5 run difference between Runs Scored (196) and Runs Allowed (191) and yet are 9 games above .500. And they're on pace for 99 victories. In 11 of their 24 wins (46%), the Twins have scored the go ahead run in the 8th, 9th, or extra innings.

Well said. There's a school of thought among stats freaks that there is no such thing as a clutch hitter. So if a team hits much better close and late than their overall average then sooner or later either their close and late average will drop or their overall average will rise. Except that doesn't seem to happen with the Twins. They've done this for years. I don't think it's luck. I think it's depth. Look what happened today. They had Matt LeCroy ready to step in in the 9th. He's the poor white man's David Ortiz. Almost any player on the lineup can step in late and deliver. No way would I have that confidence with the Sox bench. Moreover, their bullpen is solid, giving them a chance to win late. I tend to think there IS such a thing as clutch hitting - a lot of it is mental. You'll never get a statistically significant sample to prove that a "clutch hitter" exists or doesn't exist. But over the course of a career or season there are certainly some players who don't "try too hard" under pressure and others who feel relaxed, putting the pressure on the pitcher.

ma-gaga
05-20-2004, 01:35 AM
The season run differential doesn't quite tell the whole story. Additional study needs to be done on the way that they WIN their games and the way that they lose their games. It can't just be done by looking at the overall season pyth.


Maybe it'll even out as the season goes on... But they really haven't done that well in extra inning games, or one run games. I'd worry more about the W.Sox coming back to earth in that category rather than the Twins.