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View Full Version : Why The Silence From The CF Defensive Experts Regarding Harris?


joecrede
05-19-2004, 09:44 AM
Where are the 20-page threads?

Win1ForMe
05-19-2004, 09:52 AM
Willie is not the long-term solution in CF, I think everybody and their mother knows that. That's a little different from the FOC who see Rowand as the everyday answer. I actually feel bad for Willie, it's not fair for him to have to go out there after spending most of his time at 2B, and playing relatively well.

rahulsekhar
05-19-2004, 09:57 AM
IMO, Willie can play CF most of this year effectively, and then move back to 2B next year depending on his CF performance and what the Sox do in the offseason.

Of course, when the Sox trade for Carlos Beltran , we'll have to send Willie back to 2B.

Fungo
05-19-2004, 09:59 AM
The ball hit straight at you at any of the outfield positions is the hardest ball to catch. No matter which way you break, you're likely to get turned around. The ball Willie misjudged was a liner hit right over his head. No doubt the ball should have been caught, in fact probably 80% of the CF in the majors make that catch, AAAron Rowand not included.

Irishsox1
05-19-2004, 10:02 AM
Rowand isn't the answer in CF, Willie isn't the answer in CF and Joe Borchard isn't the answer in CF. I have no idea who the Sox should have out there, but I'm 100% sure it will never be Mike Cameron and it will never be Carlos Beltran.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Where are the 20-page threads?

I haven't seen either of the last 2 games. In addition, there is a difference between a 2B who has played 50 games in CF in his career, and a guy who's been an OF'er since little league.

No doubt he's going to make mistakes. The difference being the physical talent, in the long run, will allow him to recover from more of those.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I haven't seen either of the last 2 games. In addition, there is a difference between a 2B who has played 50 games in CF in his career, and a guy who's been an OF'er since little league.

No doubt he's going to make mistakes. The difference being the physical talent, in the long run, will allow him to recover from more of those. Harris is a better athlete, but it's way premature to conclude that Harris can be a better outfielder than Rowand. Especially since you didn't even see the games. I like Harris in the lineup, but I don't think anyone who saw the games would conclude that we are better with Harris than Rowand in CF from a defensive perspective.

joecrede
05-19-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Willie is not the long-term solution in CF, I think everybody and their mother knows that. That's a little different from the FOC who see Rowand as the everyday answer. I actually feel bad for Willie, it's not fair for him to have to go out there after spending most of his time at 2B, and playing relatively well.

What is the definition of "Friend Of Crash"?

Dadawg_77
05-19-2004, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Harris is a better athlete, but it's way premature to conclude that Harris can be a better outfielder than Rowand. Especially since you didn't even see the games. I like Harris in the lineup, but I don't think anyone who saw the games would conclude that we are better with Harris than Rowand in CF from a defensive perspective.

At the plate matters more then the field. So the question is pick three to start, Jose, Aaron, Willie, Juan. Then form your defense.

Mickster
05-19-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Harris is a better athlete, but it's way premature to conclude that Harris can be a better outfielder than Rowand. Especially since you didn't even see the games. I like Harris in the lineup, but I don't think anyone who saw the games would conclude that we are better with Harris than Rowand in CF from a defensive perspective.

We are COLD offensively. We are way better with Willie in the line-up as opposed to Crash, even IF he gives up a little to AArow defensively. No question about it.

ode to veeck
05-19-2004, 10:13 AM
We're too busy being dissappointed with Manos replacing Uribe at SS to comment on CF

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Willie is not the long-term solution in CF, I think everybody and their mother knows that. That's a little different from the FOC who see Rowand as the everyday answer. I actually feel bad for Willie, it's not fair for him to have to go out there after spending most of his time at 2B, and playing relatively well. I'm considered a "FOC", but I don't see him as an everyday solution. I just say is a good defender. You're right it's not fair to overly criticize Harris for his performance, as he is a second baseman. However, the "enemies of crash" try to determine we are better off with Harris out there. From an offensive perspective, that very well may be true, but not from a defensive perspective. I have nothing against Harris, I'm just not going to say he is a better CF than Rowand.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Harris is a better athlete, but it's way premature to conclude that Harris can be a better outfielder than Rowand. Especially since you didn't even see the games. I like Harris in the lineup, but I don't think anyone who saw the games would conclude that we are better with Harris than Rowand in CF from a defensive perspective.

Yes, these last 2 were the only games he's ever played CF. I can't possibly have seen any of the other 35 games he's played there, could I?

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
At the plate matters more then the field. So the question is pick three to start, Jose, Aaron, Willie, Juan. Then form your defense. I agree. I'm not saying Willie shouldn't be playing CF because it keeps him in the lineup. I'm just pointing out that Rowand isn't playing CF now because of his offense, not his defensive ability.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Mickster
We are COLD offensively. We are way better with Willie in the line-up as opposed to Crash, even IF he gives up a little to AArow defensively. No question about it. I agree.

misty60481
05-19-2004, 10:17 AM
I am not big on either one but I would rather have Rowand in line-up than Harris, Harris has no power at all at least Rowand can give you long ball--as far as defense about equal

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yes, these last 2 were the only games he's ever played CF. I can't possibly have seen any of the other 35 games he's played there, could I? You could have, but he was shakey out there as well. But baseball is all about what you've done for me lately, and since you haven't seen the extent of his ability in CF this year, you're "observational data" doesn't apply. If you're an expert as you claim to be, and you get a tape of the games, you'll recognize what we're saying.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by misty60481
I am not big on either one but I would rather have Rowand in line-up than Harris, Harris has no power at all at least Rowand can give you long ball--as far as defense about equal We don't need anymore guys swinging for the fences, we need base runners. Especially with how cold our lineup is, we need to manufacture. Harris is a good defender at second base, and he will improve in CF, but right now, they're hardly equal.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
You could have, but he was shakey out there as well. But baseball is all about what you've done for me lately, and since you haven't seen the extent of his ability in CF this year, you're "observational data" doesn't apply. If you're an expert as you claim to be, and you get a tape of the games, you'll recognize what we're saying.


It's 2 games, bro! He didn't even shag flies in ST, let alone get any real practice in. That's like saying Diaz will never be a MLB pitcher after 2 starts. Knee-jerk reaction.

This is why I wished they had Willie out in CF in Winter ball and ST. We knew he could play 2B, but for the life of me, I still don't understand how anyone thought Rowand would be worthy of starting, particularly in a lineup already full of slow-ass, no-walk, fence-swingers...

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
It's 2 games, bro! He didn't even shag flies in ST, let alone get any real practice in. That's like saying Diaz will never be a MLB pitcher after 2 starts. Knee-jerk reaction.

This is why I wished they had Willie out in CF in Winter ball and ST. We knew he could play 2B, but for the life of me, I still don't understand how anyone thought Rowand would be worthy of starting, particularly in a lineup already full of slow-ass, no-walk, fence-swingers... Ya in 2 games bro, that you didn't even see. How are you going to argue something you have no clue about. Anyway, he's been practicing in CF throughout the year. And how are you going to play him in CF in ST when he was set to be our second baseman? That would have made no sense, and probably would have hurt his defense at second. Anyway, Rowand isn't much of a base stealing threat, but he's hardly slow. And they thought that because he batted a respectable .280 last year with very good defense.

joecrede
05-19-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I haven't seen either of the last 2 games. In addition, there is a difference between a 2B who has played 50 games in CF in his career, and a guy who's been an OF'er since little league.

No doubt he's going to make mistakes. The difference being the physical talent, in the long run, will allow him to recover from more of those.

In the long run sure, maybe .

I think though it's inconsistent to point out Rowand's nearly-missed catches while explaining away Harris' actual misplays.

At the very least, Rowand is the best defensive CF'er on the roster.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
In the long run sure, maybe .

I think though it's inconsistent to point out Rowand's nearly-missed catches while explaining away Harris' actual misplays.

At the very least, Rowand is the best defensive CF'er on the roster.

Explain away? Fine, they're mistakes, did I deny that? However, I've seen Rowand play OF for 4 or 5 years, and I think I have a pretty solid understanding of where his deficiencies are, and the fact that many of them have not been improved upon in 4+ years.

I'm willing to give Willie a chance to improve. Rowand has had MORE than his fair chance.

In response to SEAL, where is your info that he's been practicing in CF all year, because that runs counter to what Ozzie has said in pre-game radio interviews 2 times in the last 2 weeks.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Explain away? Fine, they're mistakes, did I deny that? However, I've seen Rowand play OF for 4 or 5 years, and I think I have a pretty solid understanding of where his deficiencies are, and the fact that many of them have not been improved upon in 4+ years.

I'm willing to give Willie a chance to improve. Rowand has had MORE than his fair chance.

In response to SEAL, where is your info that he's been practicing in CF all year, because that runs counter to what Ozzie has said in pre-game radio interviews 2 times in the last 2 weeks. Hawk or DJ said it.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Hawk or DJ said it.

Ozzie has said it more than once that he hasn't been taking OF practice. He was using it as a reason he wasn't moving Harris out there earlier.

Your what hurts?

joecrede
05-19-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I'm willing to give Willie a chance to improve. Rowand has had MORE than his fair chance.

If you thought Rowand's defense was hurting the team, Harris' on-the-job-training promises to be worse. It already has been and that's 18 innings in.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
If you thought Rowand's defense was hurting the team, Harris' on-the-job-training promises to be worse. It already has been and that's 18 innings in.

I did see the one misplay in the first game, and by all accounts no ball he misplayed in that game was a ball Rowand would even have had a chance on. Now you're going to penalize him for that as "costing the team"?

iwannago
05-19-2004, 11:29 AM
Keep Willie Mays Harris at 2B!

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ozzie has said it more than once that he hasn't been taking OF practice. He was using it as a reason he wasn't moving Harris out there earlier.

Your what hurts? I didn't say Ozzie, and actually, I feel pretty good thanks.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I did see the one misplay in the first game, and by all accounts no ball he misplayed in that game was a ball Rowand would even have had a chance on. Now you're going to penalize him for that as "costing the team"? You don't know that.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I didn't say Ozzie, and actually, I feel pretty good thanks.

For a "communications" major, you really have a hard time with understanding the nuances of the English language.

Ozzie said it several times. I'll take that over some off-cuff remark from Hawk and DJ 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

joecrede
05-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I did see the one misplay in the first game, and by all accounts no ball he misplayed in that game was a ball Rowand would even have had a chance on. Now you're going to penalize him for that as "costing the team"?

The ball Sunday Rowand catches. The ball last night was a difficult chance, but one that Harris catches if as you say he's better than Rowand.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
For a "communications" major, you really have a hard time with understanding the nuances of the English language.

Ozzie said it several times. I'll take that over some off-cuff remark from Hawk and DJ 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. I wasn't a communications major, I minored in it. Regardless though, you can take whoever's word you want. However, that doesn't say anything about me like your suggesting. I'm just relaying what was said.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
The ball Sunday Rowand catches. The ball last night was a difficult chance, but one that Harris catches if as you say he's better than Rowand. Rowand would have caught yesterday as well. It wasn't that Willie ran for it and fell short, he just turned around and couldn't get enough leather on it. Speed was a non issue on that play, and I have no doubt Rowand would have gotten that ball fairly easily.

Dub25
05-19-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Where are the 20-page threads?

Because according to Randar you can't point out bad things about other players unless it is Rowand.

Dub25
05-19-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Ozzie has said it more than once that he hasn't been taking OF practice. He was using it as a reason he wasn't moving Harris out there earlier.

Your what hurts?

But Willie said in Sunday's sun times white sox notebook I believe that he was indeed shagging fly balls in batting practice just in case heplayed CF.

iwannago
05-19-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Where are the 20-page threads?

The 20 page threads are not here simply because this Thread does not require a 20 page answer.

FarWestChicago
05-19-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
What is the definition of "Friend Of Crash"? The FO, or Friends Of, designation came about for people with an irrational attachment to mediocre players. Friends of Buddy Lee, Friends of Versatile, Friends of Crash, etc. All considered saviors by their Friends, which basically never made any sense. :smile:

ode to veeck
05-19-2004, 01:25 PM
I always thought Friends of Buddie Lee were in a class all by themselves ... on a planet far, far, away

... and when you use the words medicore and Buddy Lee in the same sentence, you poked me in the eye (again!) Pinocchio ... he flat out sucked!

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
The FO, or Friends Of, designation came about for people with an irrational attachment to mediocre players. Friends of Buddy Lee, Friends of Versatile, Friends of Crash, etc. All considered saviors by their Friends, which basically never made any sense. :smile: If it didn't make sense than you could prove it wrong. An opinion is an opinion, and with the Rowand Poll, it appears there are plenty of FOC, and his defense. Trying to belittle people because they don't agree with you is as absurd as you make us out to be. Is it so hard to just respectfully disagree?

Randar68
05-19-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
If it didn't make sense than you could prove it wrong. An opinion is an opinion, and with the Rowand Poll, it appears there are plenty of FOC, and his defense. Trying to belittle people because they don't agree with you is as absurd as you make us out to be. Is it so hard to just respectfully disagree?

How many times are you going to make me say this?

An opinion is like an A-hole, everyone has one.

However, that doesn't make anyone's "opinion" valid, rational, or logical. So continue saying "it's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it," and I'll keep saying, "you are off your rocker, it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it."

Randar68
05-19-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Trying to belittle people because they don't agree with you is as absurd as you make us out to be. Is it so hard to just respectfully disagree?

Because you made the poll intentionally vague and black-and-white, something the issue is clearly NOT.

The other poll is a much more complete barometer of people's opinions, but you ignore THAT one, "because it's flawed"....

This is ridiculous.


When are we going to get that FOC tag?

Frater Perdurabo
05-19-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
An opinion is like an A-hole, everyone has one.


And everyone thinks that everybody else's stinks! :D:

Blueprint1
05-19-2004, 01:52 PM
So players like Willie Harris too right? Willie Harris has alot of athletic talent but not much baseball skill. This guy has trouble stealing bases and has to be one of the fastest guys in baseball. He has not throwing arm which isn't good for a person in CF. He has hit more than I expected him to this year. We will see if he can keep it up it is only May guys. No Rowand is not long term for CF but some of you forget everything good he has done. I do remember a couple games where he was the ONLY person that hit. Willie and Rowand are both AAA players in my book. One has tons of athletic talent and no baseball skill. The other has little natural talent but better baseball skills. They both suck and this debate is getting old.

Mickster
05-19-2004, 01:57 PM
All this talk about Rowand and his defense v. offense is just splitting hairs, isn't it.

I remember a player not too long ago who I honestly felt was great at defending his position:
:hitless
"Who ME?"

I don't think anyone could argue that the Choice's defense was well above average. That being said, there are more people that were fed up with K-Layton than any player in recent memory (Ritchie comes as a close 2nd).

It very well could be that Rowand's offense clouds people's perceptions of his defense. It doesn't really matter. He doesn't belong out there on a regular basis. Konerko is pretty good at 1st base as well, yet I don't think the majority of people would shed a tear if he were to be traded tomorrow.

We need more then one dimension from our CF. I think everyone would be complaining even if it were Griffey playing CF with Rowand's offensive stats.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
How many times are you going to make me say this?

An opinion is like an A-hole, everyone has one.

However, that doesn't make anyone's "opinion" valid, rational, or logical. So continue saying "it's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it," and I'll keep saying, "you are off your rocker, it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it." How about instead of saying people are stupid you actually provide some insightful information. Right now, all you say is because you see him play and he sucks. Well, I see the same thing and I think he's good. So the only basis for calling me stupid is becuase I don't agree with you. That's stupid.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-19-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Mickster

I don't think anyone could argue that the Choice's defense was well above average.

I wasn't around these parts back then, but how'd he get the nickname the "choice"? Is it simply because it rhymes with Royce? if so then that's original :)

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
All this talk about Rowand and his defense v. offense is just splitting hairs, isn't it.

I remember a player not too long ago who I honestly felt was great at defending his position:
:hitless
"Who ME?"

I don't think anyone could argue that the Choice's defense was well above average. That being said, there are more people that were fed up with K-Layton than any player in recent memory (Ritchie comes as a close 2nd).

It very well could be that Rowand's offense clouds people's perceptions of his defense. It doesn't really matter. He doesn't belong out there on a regular basis. Konerko is pretty good at 1st base as well, yet I don't think the majority of people would shed a tear if he were to be traded tomorrow.

We need more that one dimension from our CF. I think everyone would be complaining even if it were Griffey playing CF with Rowand's offensive stats. Just to be clear about my perspective personally, because some probably think I'm arguing this, I think Rowand is a good defensive player. I don't think he's our long term starting CF. I think he would be a pretty good fourth outfielder to have, especially if the future starter (possibly Reed) was a lefty. I'm not arguing he should be playing full time, only that the reason he isn't has nothing to do with his defense.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Because you made the poll intentionally vague and black-and-white, something the issue is clearly NOT.

The other poll is a much more complete barometer of people's opinions, but you ignore THAT one, "because it's flawed"....

This is ridiculous.


When are we going to get that FOC tag? How is mine flawed? That's the only point I'm arguing, that Rowand is a good defensive CF, yes or no. Besides, there are two polls. I'm not the one being ridiculous.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
How about instead of saying people are stupid you actually provide some insightful information. Right now, all you say is because you see him play and he sucks. Well, I see the same thing and I think he's good. So the only basis for calling me stupid is becuase I don't agree with you. That's stupid.

Been there

Done that

Ignored (or like the real poll, discounted for no logical reason)

At this point, my current angle is much more entertaining. I really don't need to insult you, as you do a fantastic job of making yourself look ...

nevermind... it's as apparent as ever.

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Been there

Done that

Ignored (or like the real poll, discounted for no logical reason)

At this point, my current angle is much more entertaining. I really don't need to insult you, as you do a fantastic job of making yourself look ...

nevermind... it's as apparent as ever. Lol, the "real" poll. I make myself look stupid? Because I disagree with you? Your pettiness astounds even me.

Randar68
05-19-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Lol, the "real" poll. I make myself look stupid? Because I disagree with you? Your pettiness astounds even me.

Your response to every criticism of AAAron Rowand is a non sequitur.

I've covered the topic for many months before you arrived here becoming the most obsessive FOC. The fact that I don't wish to restate the undeniable evidence and observational data that's been compiled over several years about Rowand's defense means nothing anymore. It's all out there.

You're only response is "observational data is worthless". That's selective reasoning and to someone who has no clue how to judge talent or critique baseball skills, you're correct about one thing: It's completely lost on you.

So why bother?

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Your response to every criticism of AAAron Rowand is a non sequitur.

I've covered the topic for many months before you arrived here becoming the most obsessive FOC. The fact that I don't wish to restate the undeniable evidence and observational data that's been compiled over several years about Rowand's defense means nothing anymore. It's all out there.

You're only response is "observational data is worthless". That's selective reasoning and to someone who has no clue how to judge talent or critique baseball skills, you're correct about one thing: It's completely lost on you.

So why bother? I never called observational data worthless, I said it's no better than anyone else's observational data. Meaning, your observations have no more value than mine. But I'll agree with you on one thing, you shouldn't bother. But you said that before, and then you rekindled the debate. If you let it go, I'd be more than happy to follow. I just doubt you will for some reason.

maurice
05-19-2004, 03:19 PM
Willie's long-range prospects in CF are irrellevant, since his long-range position is 2B. He's more valuable to this organization at 2B and has some work to do on his D at that position as well. Jerking him back and forth between 2B and CF is not helping his development.

Time to make a trade and/or wait for Reed to heat back up at Charlotte.

FarWestChicago
05-19-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
If it didn't make sense than you could prove it wrong. An opinion is an opinion, and with the Rowand Poll, it appears there are plenty of FOC, and his defense. Trying to belittle people because they don't agree with you is as absurd as you make us out to be. Is it so hard to just respectfully disagree? On other thing about FO's, their sense of humor seems to be inversely related to the level of their irrational obsession. Heck, when it was FOB's vs. BOM's, we BOM's even used "Hands of Stone" in our guy's name. :cool:

Lighten up a little, SEAL. I know you have a sense of humor in there somewhere. You're just circling around it a little, kind of like Crash and a fly ball. :D:

OEO Magglio
05-19-2004, 03:47 PM
Willie has been playing 2nd base the whole year. Of course he's going to be rusty his first couple of games out there. Last year he was playing a pretty damn good centerfield and soon he will start playing well in centerfield again once he gets adjusted. This is just a stupid thread to start after seeing him play center for two day.
:threadsucks

FarWestChicago
05-19-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by JohnBasedowYoda
I wasn't around these parts back then, but how'd he get the nickname the "choice"? Is it simply because it rhymes with Royce? if so then that's original :) The Legacy of Choice (http://www.flyingsock.com/RoyceChoice/roycechoice.htm)

Mickster
05-19-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
The Legacy of Choice (http://www.flyingsock.com/RoyceChoice/roycechoice.htm)

LOL! I love it!! :D:

OurBitchinMinny
05-19-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I'm considered a "FOC", but I don't see him as an everyday solution. I just say is a good defender. You're right it's not fair to overly criticize Harris for his performance, as he is a second baseman. However, the "enemies of crash" try to determine we are better off with Harris out there. From an offensive perspective, that very well may be true, but not from a defensive perspective. I have nothing against Harris, I'm just not going to say he is a better CF than Rowand.

Who knows, but he is a better hitter. Rowand hits at a AA level. The only advantage rowand has is an arm. But rowand has an arm and no brain. he is one of those CF who will do a somersault on a throw to home instead of doing the smart thing and throwing to third to hold a runner at 2. Rowand is just a dumb player, with little to no talent. Willie at least has shown he can play in the majors

SEALgep
05-19-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
The Legacy of Choice (http://www.flyingsock.com/RoyceChoice/roycechoice.htm) You're about to make some serious dough if your selling this stuff. Add a Crash T-shirt for 19.99, and you'll be set. In fact, I'll take two. :D:

joecrede
05-19-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
Who knows, but he is a better hitter. Rowand hits at a AA level. The only advantage rowand has is an arm. But rowand has an arm and no brain. he is one of those CF who will do a somersault on a throw to home instead of doing the smart thing and throwing to third to hold a runner at 2. Rowand is just a dumb player, with little to no talent. Willie at least has shown he can play in the majors

This is an extremely thoughtful analysis. I will have to re-think my position.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-19-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
The Legacy of Choice (http://www.flyingsock.com/RoyceChoice/roycechoice.htm)

awesome