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View Full Version : Do people understand what a platoon is?


jeremyb1
05-18-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Watch them get 16 hits and score 12 runs... and then go back to Monday's lineup for tomorrow.

Originally posted by mcfish
Why wasn't this yesterday's lineup? The team scores 10+ runs and Ozzie goes and changes the lineup for the next game twice in a week! If something works try it again. I know the rainout changed things the first time, but I still find the changes irritating. In the last week, when the Sox haven't scored 10+, they average 2 runs (5 games, 10 runs). And 6 of those were in 1 win against the O's.

And why in the world did Rowand bat #2 yesterday? Whatever your position on his defensive ability, I think we all can agree he has been less than impressive at the plate this year.

Originally posted by MRKARNO
This is our best possible lineup right here. No Rowand in it. In fact, just about any lineup without Rowand in it is the best possible lineup.

This really should be our regular lineup as it gives us two good table setters and a deeper power lineup. I say we score at least 7 tonight

Some hitters struggle with lefthanding pitching. Others struggle with righthanded pitching. These struggles can sometimes be enough to cripple a club as in the case of Jose Valentin (at least when he was switch hitting) when he hit .157/.224/.267!!! against lefties from 2001 to 2003. If you can remove such dreadful production from your lineup personally I don't see how you can do anything but improve your team's chances of winning.

With the above in mind, let's look at some stats: 65/218

Rowand vs. Lefties 2001-2003 (235 plate appearances): .298/.356/.463
Rowand vs. Lefties 2004 (31 plate appearances) .280/.419/.520

Harris vs. Lefties 2004 (16 plate appearances) .067/.125/.067
That's obviously a small sample size but Harris also hit considerably worse against lefties than righties in '02 and '03.

In light of these numbers, how does it make sense to play Harris over Rowand against lefites? I'd love to know. Everyone acts as though the reason we didn't score many runs Monday was that Rowand was in the lineup over Harris. Well Rowand went 1 for 3 against the lefty, what's the problem?

MRKARNO
05-18-2004, 07:53 PM
Well I think that it's worth it to try this lineup against righties more. If it doesn't work, oh well, but I think Lefty or Righty it gives us the best chance to win

voodoochile
05-18-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Some hitters struggle with lefthanding pitching. Others struggle with righthanded pitching. These struggles can sometimes be enough to cripple a club as in the case of Jose Valentin (at least when he was switch hitting) when he hit .157/.224/.267!!! against lefties from 2001 to 2003. If you can remove such dreadful production from your lineup personally I don't see how you can do anything but improve your team's chances of winning.

With the above in mind, let's look at some stats: 65/218

Rowand vs. Lefties 2001-2003 (235 plate appearances): .298/.356/.463
Rowand vs. Lefties 2004 (31 plate appearances) .280/.419/.520

Harris vs. Lefties 2004 (16 plate appearances) .067/.125/.067
That's obviously a small sample size but Harris also hit considerably worse against lefties than righties in '02 and '03.

In light of these numbers, how does it make sense to play Harris over Rowand against lefites? I'd love to know. Everyone acts as though the reason we didn't score many runs Monday was that Rowand was in the lineup over Harris. Well Rowand went 1 for 3 against the lefty, what's the problem?

You're right...

It's a crappy sample size... :D:

The_Floridian
05-18-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Some hitters struggle with lefthanding pitching. Others struggle with righthanded pitching. These struggles can sometimes be enough to cripple a club as in the case of Jose Valentin (at least when he was switch hitting) when he hit .157/.224/.267!!! against lefties from 2001 to 2003. If you can remove such dreadful production from your lineup personally I don't see how you can do anything but improve your team's chances of winning.

With the above in mind, let's look at some stats: 65/218

Rowand vs. Lefties 2001-2003 (235 plate appearances): .298/.356/.463
Rowand vs. Lefties 2004 (31 plate appearances) .280/.419/.520

Harris vs. Lefties 2004 (16 plate appearances) .067/.125/.067
That's obviously a small sample size but Harris also hit considerably worse against lefties than righties in '02 and '03.

In light of these numbers, how does it make sense to play Harris over Rowand against lefites? I'd love to know. Everyone acts as though the reason we didn't score many runs Monday was that Rowand was in the lineup over Harris. Well Rowand went 1 for 3 against the lefty, what's the problem?

Damn your logic!!! :D:

jeremyb1
05-18-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well I think that it's worth it to try this lineup against righties more. If it doesn't work, oh well, but I think Lefty or Righty it gives us the best chance to win

I've never claimed Rowand is a great player but he destroys lefties, something both Harris and Valentin struggle with. Configure the lineup however you like but I think Rowand needs to be in the lineup against lefthanded hitters which tends to be only one or two games a week at the most. If he's our fourth outfielder he'll play that often anyway.

doublem23
05-18-2004, 08:01 PM
Yes, I know what a platoon is. I also know it doesn't do you any good when the guy you're moving in doesn't hit anything. What's next, Oh Grand Wizard?

voodoochile
05-18-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I've never claimed Rowand is a great player but he destroys lefties, something both Harris and Valentin struggle with. Configure the lineup however you like but I think Rowand needs to be in the lineup against lefthanded hitters which tends to be only one or two games a week at the most. If he's our fourth outfielder he'll play that often anyway.

Well, I hope not. I really don't want Maggs and Lee getting a game off every week, but regardless of that, wouldn't your platoon mean that he would then be playing 3-4 times a week, or that Maggs and Lee would have to play every game?

Irishsox1
05-18-2004, 11:11 PM
In the past I would never comment on everyone calling Jerry Manual a tinker, because it was not the real reason Jerry had to go, but I didn't care because I wanted Jerry gone for other reasons. But, with the Sox losing 7 of the last 10, posters already calling Ozzie a "tinker" manager, I'm getting tired of it. The Sox play 162 regular games a year. I would love to start the same 9 players every game, including the same pitcher, but it just doesn't work like that. Catchers need a lot of days off, lefties tend to struggle against lefties, some righties hit lefties and not righties and so on. So, Ozzie will sit players one day after the Sox score 10 runs off a leftie and not leave the same line up in for the next game against a rightie. When it's time for Ozzie to get fired, it won't be because of players he started, it will be for the entire team not perfoming for the duration of the year.

Voice of Reason
05-18-2004, 11:49 PM
I never understood calling Jerry a tinkerer. The only guy on the bench that seemed to have Jerry's respect was Graffanino. None of the other bench players seemed to get regular playing time. Ozzie trusts his bench and thats good because if you're not going to trust them to start occasionally and pinch hit or pinch run when the situation calls for it, why are they on the team? Like other people have said, there are a million reasons why you can't run the same lineup out there everyday. It's the manager's responsibility to try and do whats best for the team and it would be a lot easier to run nine guys out there, play them all nine innings and if they lost blame it on them. Than it is to trust that everyone on your roster has a purpose and can play. I don't like Ozzie Guillen as a manager but using everyone is not something he does wrong, its something he does right.