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View Full Version : Has Harry been erased from the Sox history books?


32nd&Wallace
05-18-2004, 12:19 PM
In going to the game last Friday, I noticed something while in the upperdeck where there is a collage of photos of the Sox from the 1970s. No pictures of Harry Carry. Come to think of it, there are no pictures of Harry anywhere in the ballpark. Nothing to remember him by.
Harry was before my time. I was four when he left but here was a guy that carried the team for the better part of the 1970s. Without a doubt their biggest star. Bigger than Dick Allen, Bill Melton, anyone.
Yet he just seems to be erased from Sox history. I find that very strange consdiering he helped ressurect the franchise on more than a few occasions.
There is a lot of revisionist history about Harry that concerns me. He spent the bulk of his career with the Cards and the Sox. Two teams that have fan bases that hate the Cubs. I find it ironic that his association with those two teams, have really been washed away for his role as a goofy mascot with the Cubs.
What is sad is the REAL Harry was the Harry you saw with the Sox. The Cubs, like they do with most people, made him into a goofball.
But back to my point, if I were the Sox, I'd want to keep these memories alive. Let's face it, the worst thing this JR ever did was let him go. In my opinion it was bigger than the strike. Can you imagine if Harry was with the Sox in'83?
Anyways, I hope that the new marketing director when marketing Sox history can do something with that because its an important part of Sox history.

KingXerxes
05-18-2004, 12:32 PM
32nd - I've posted often on how I can't fathom why Reinsdorf needed (and evidently still needs) to purge every bit of pre-Reinsdorf White Sox memory from the organization.

I sincerely doubt you will see the new marketing director make a big nostalgic push - because his boss (JR) is the same guy who was once Gallas's boss.

jackbrohamer
05-18-2004, 12:37 PM
Opening day after Harry Caray died, the Sox promised a "tribute" to him before the game started. The showed about 20 seconds of him singing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" on a really poor quality tape from what looked like 1973 & that was about it.

When they won the 1983 division title, Reinsey showed his class by using the opportunity to call Harry & Jimmy "scum" in a post-game interview.

The guy was an extremely popular announcer for the Sox for 10 years, I don't know why Reinsdorf is willing to give the Cubs the enrite benefit of his popularity.

TheBull19
05-18-2004, 12:37 PM
I could really care less about the announcers myself. Bigger than Dick Allen? I don't think so.

Hondo
05-18-2004, 12:40 PM
Harry was a good announcer while he was with the Sox.
That was before he turned into a cartoon character.

Tekijawa
05-18-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
32nd - I've posted often on how I can't fathom why Reinsdorf needed (and evidently still needs) to purge every bit of pre-Reinsdorf White Sox memory from the organization.


I can't wait until the purging of all Reinsdorf Whitesox Memories occurs!

Medford Bobby
05-18-2004, 12:44 PM
You got to remember that Harry and Jimmy were SCUM, plain and simple..........You got me thinking about that history...and some what if's.........What if Bob Elson had not retired til the mid 70's. Part of the rise of the Sox was the Dick Allen era players and Harry ralling the troops into the ballpark. I remember going to alot of centerfield broadcasts with Harry shirtless sittin with the fans...Would I have been that interested in the Sox if Bob Elson was there until 1975?? And what if the Sunshine Boys read thier recent Sox history upon taking over the Sox and saw that with Harry, like him or not, you must keep him in bringing Sox fans into the park. True, Harry always spoke his mind on lazy players but always though pushed the company line. So imagine Eddie and Jerry keeping Harry, staying with WGN to keep the national exposure of the ballclub, alot of history would have changed. Milo Hamilton would have been the Cups broadcaster all these years after Jack Brickhouse retired. Alot of phoney Cup history would be different today.............wow

:) Harry and Falstaff beer, need we say more...pour me some now...........

the_valenstache
05-18-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Hondo
Harry was a good announcer while he was with the Sox.
That was before he turned into a cartoon character.

It's a simple question: would you eat the moon if it were made of barbeque spare ribs?

Lip Man 1
05-18-2004, 12:57 PM
Uncle Jerry has been trying for a long time to do the same thing to the Veeck name in connection with the club.

I'm never met him but he must have a monster ego considering all the vindictive things he's done.

Lip

Hondo
05-18-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by the_valenstache
It's a simple question: would you eat the moon if it were made of barbeque spare ribs?

"My friends call me whiskers cause I'm curious like a cat."

Hangar18
05-18-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by the_valenstache
It's a simple question: would you eat the moon if it were made of barbeque spare ribs?

Heh heh. Anyone who watched that Bob Sirott interview
with Uncle Jerry will know, he has a terribly Huge Ego. It was CHILLING and FRIGHTENING to see just how Callous and Vindictive Jerry Reinsdorf really is :angry:

Hangar18
05-18-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by the_valenstache
It's a simple question: would you eat the moon if it were made of barbeque spare ribs?

Cub fans are flooding the lines at NASA for flight info .........

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by the_valenstache
It's a simple question: would you eat the moon if it were made of barbeque spare ribs?

I know I would....I'd smother it in barbecue sauce....mmmm...it'd be so delicious!!

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I can't wait until the purging of all Reinsdorf Whitesox Memories occurs!

Ooh...you beat me to that one :)

cheeses_h_rice
05-18-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by the_valenstache
It's a simple question: would you eat the moon if it were made of barbeque spare ribs?

I don't get the reference? Care to explain?

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I don't get the reference? Care to explain?

Will Ferrell's version of Harry on SNL. Pretty funny. Always saying inane things.

DC Sox Fan
05-18-2004, 02:29 PM
More importantly, what's your favorite planet? Mine's the sun. It's kind of like "The king of planets!"

Grobber33
05-18-2004, 02:35 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackbrohamer
[B]Opening day after Harry Caray died, the Sox promised a "tribute" to him before the game started. The showed about 20 seconds of him singing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" on a really poor quality tape from what looked like 1973 & that was about it.

When they won the 1983 division title, Reinsey showed his class by using the opportunity to call Harry & Jimmy "scum" in a post-game interview.


I was interviewing Jerry when he made that statement. It went as follows: 'Caray said we had a triple A ballclub,Piersall said we could'nt win with this Manager(LaRussa).I hope they both eat their hearts out,I hope the people of this town realize what scum those two people are!"
After the other reporters scattered,I pulled him on the side and out of courtesy, I offered to not play it on the air. He thanked me but said "the others are going to play it,so you may as well do so also".
Keep in mind that this was only 5 months after the Elia tirade I was so caught up in.
Jimmy thought about suing,but I dont think he ever did.

32nd&Wallace
05-18-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
32nd - I've posted often on how I can't fathom why Reinsdorf needed (and evidently still needs) to purge every bit of pre-Reinsdorf White Sox memory from the organization.

I sincerely doubt you will see the new marketing director make a big nostalgic push - because his boss (JR) is the same guy who was once Gallas's boss.

Wow. You reminded me of something. YOu know when they do "Great Moments in White Sox History" between innings, there i s never any pre-1981 footage. Certaintly there must be footage from 1959 onwards. At least from 1964, 1967, 1972 or 1977. My dad told me some of those years were just as memoarable than 83, 93 and 2000.

C-Dawg
05-18-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by 32nd&Wallace
In going to the game last Friday, I noticed something while in the upperdeck where there is a collage of photos of the Sox from the 1970s. No pictures of Harry Carry. Come to think of it, there are no pictures of Harry anywhere in the ballpark. Nothing to remember him by.


I did notice there's a pic of Sammy Sosa however. I was a little surprised to see it I suppose.

BTW, how long have they had the collage of photos up there? I've been sitting in the main concourse for the last few years, and only managed to wander up there during the Toronto double header a couple weeks ago. I sure like the pictures, although its a shame if they can't include Harry in at least one shot.

jackbrohamer
05-18-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
[B I was interviewing Jerry when he made that statement. It went as follows: 'Caray said we had a triple A ballclub,Piersall said we could'nt win with this Manager(LaRussa).I hope they both eat their hearts out,I hope the people of this town realize what scum those two people are!" [/B]

I'm very impressed that you got 2 such notorious qoutes on tape the same season. And very professional of you to give him an "out."

Medford Bobby
05-18-2004, 03:12 PM
Actually I laughed at the Will Farrell's Harry....especially Harry's idea if hot dogs were used as currency.....funny stuff..... :)


I guess we won't see any Turn Back the Clock with those Dick Allen era red jersey's......... :whiner:

Sheer fun and excitment for me as a fan...can't beat the 77 Southside Hitmen....pure fun at the park!

Hangar18
05-18-2004, 03:15 PM
Funny ..............The SOX are only to quick to erase anything and everything Harry Caray from their history, only to have the other team up North be TOO QUICK in making him a part of theirs.
Whos having the last laugh now?

GoSox2K3
05-18-2004, 03:20 PM
In his interview w/ Bob Sirrot, JR said that he only had one person who ever worked for him who he really disliked. Assuming for a moment that this is true, was he referring to Harry Caray?

C-Dawg
05-18-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby

Sheer fun and excitment for me as a fan...can't beat the 77 Southside Hitmen....pure fun at the park!

Yeah, that was the first year I ever went to the Park. I still have my cool green Bat Day Bat (to the first 10,000 youngsters!) as a treasured item from my youth. What a ton of fun it was that year!

Probably my favorite Harry memory was meeting him out in front while we were in line to get in; I was probably 12 - 14 at the time. Harry came walking up on his way to work, and it took him about 5 minutes to get by the crowd because he stopped to shake everyone's hand, even us kids. He was so nice to everyone that day.

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by C-Dawg
Probably my favorite Harry memory was meeting him out in front while we were in line to get in; I was probably 12 - 14 at the time. Harry came walking up on his way to work, and it took him about 5 minutes to get by the crowd because he stopped to shake everyone's hand, even us kids. He was so nice to everyone that day.

I have a good personal memory of Harry too...I think it was the summer of '78 and my family lived in the Pilsen neighborhood. I heard some repetitious car honking and ran over to the window to see Harry sitting on the back seat of a convertible waving to everyone. The neighborhood kids were ecstatic. Jimmy Piersall and another guy were sitting in the front. I was 7 years old at the time, a huge Sox fan and I was smiling for days! :)

GoSox2K3
05-18-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
... Milo Hamilton would have been the Cups broadcaster all these years after Jack Brickhouse retired. Alot of phoney Cup history would be different today.............wow

Let's put it this way, I doubt that there would be a trendy restaurant in town today called "Milo Hamilton's"!

Uncle Jerry got burned so badly for getting rid of Harry and letting him become the crosstown competition's legend. I'm sure he's in deep denial of all this and will never, ever acknowledge anything Harry had to do w/ Sox history. If you want the Sox to ever embrace the Veeck/Caray era of their history, you'll have to wait until Reinsdorf retires and sells the team.

robertks61
05-18-2004, 05:16 PM
Harry pretty much ran Bill Melton out of town, it got so bad that Bill's kids were booed during a father son game. I remember Bill telling that story during an interview.

Cubbiesuck13
05-18-2004, 05:43 PM
i am glad that when someone says his name people don't think of the sox. i hope there is never a tribute or anything to that drunk of a human being at a sox park.

hsnterprize
05-18-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackbrohamer
[B]Opening day after Harry Caray died, the Sox promised a "tribute" to him before the game started. The showed about 20 seconds of him singing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" on a really poor quality tape from what looked like 1973 & that was about it.

When they won the 1983 division title, Reinsey showed his class by using the opportunity to call Harry & Jimmy "scum" in a post-game interview.


I was interviewing Jerry when he made that statement. It went as follows: 'Caray said we had a triple A ballclub,Piersall said we could'nt win with this Manager(LaRussa).I hope they both eat their hearts out,I hope the people of this town realize what scum those two people are!"
After the other reporters scattered,I pulled him on the side and out of courtesy, I offered to not play it on the air. He thanked me but said "the others are going to play it,so you may as well do so also".
Keep in mind that this was only 5 months after the Elia tirade I was so caught up in.
Jimmy thought about suing,but I dont think he ever did. Hey Grobber...

What was it like when Harry worked for the Sox? I was pretty young when I first started watching Sox games on WSNS-TV 44 (I can still remember the "YEAH!" lyrics from the TV open back then.), but I know Harry packed a wallop against players who didn't give it their all. Has there been ANY time when Jerry tried to make amends for his "scum" comment and apologize to Harry? Do you think if there were new Sox ownership, the new Chaifman would try and reach out to Dutchie Caray and ask her forgiveness? It would be nice if word were out that even though Harry's most famous with the Cubs, that he was a part of the Sox for a good while.

TornLabrum
05-18-2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
You got to remember that Harry and Jimmy were SCUM, plain and simple..........You got me thinking about that history...and some what if's.........What if Bob Elson had not retired til the mid 70's. Part of the rise of the Sox was the Dick Allen era players and Harry ralling the troops into the ballpark. I remember going to alot of centerfield broadcasts with Harry shirtless sittin with the fans...Would I have been that interested in the Sox if Bob Elson was there until 1975?? And what if the Sunshine Boys read thier recent Sox history upon taking over the Sox and saw that with Harry, like him or not, you must keep him in bringing Sox fans into the park. True, Harry always spoke his mind on lazy players but always though pushed the company line. So imagine Eddie and Jerry keeping Harry, staying with WGN to keep the national exposure of the ballclub, alot of history would have changed. Milo Hamilton would have been the Cups broadcaster all these years after Jack Brickhouse retired. Alot of phoney Cup history would be different today.............wow

:) Harry and Falstaff beer, need we say more...pour me some now...........

One correction. Elson didn't retire. He was fired. He broadcast in Oakland the year Harry moved to Chicago (from Oakland).

Hangar18
05-18-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
Hey Grobber...

What was it like when Harry worked for the Sox? I was pretty young when I first started watching Sox games on WSNS-TV 44 (I can still remember the "YEAH!" lyrics from the TV open back then.), but I know Harry packed a wallop against players who didn't give it their all. Has there been ANY time when Jerry tried to make amends for his "scum" comment and apologize to Harry? Do you think if there were new Sox ownership, the new Chaifman would try and reach out to Dutchie Caray and ask her forgiveness? It would be nice if word were out that even though Harry's most famous with the Cubs, that he was a part of the Sox for a good while.

Harry & Cardinals - Harry was very professional
Harry & Sox - Harry became Rebel, Rejected becoming company man
Harry & Cubs- Harry became Company Man

doublem23
05-18-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
32nd - I've posted often on how I can't fathom why Reinsdorf needed (and evidently still needs) to purge every bit of pre-Reinsdorf White Sox memory from the organization.

I sincerely doubt you will see the new marketing director make a big nostalgic push - because his boss (JR) is the same guy who was once Gallas's boss.

Hey now, they stuck a statue of the Old Roman in right field.

:reinsy
Actually, it's just an old one of Curly from the Three Stooges. I just had someone put a derby on it.

dickallen15
05-18-2004, 09:29 PM
When Harry was with the Cardinals, wasn't he run over by a car, and the story was Harry was allegedly fooling around with Busch's wife, and Busch basically ordered a "hit" on Harry?

Viva Magglio
05-18-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
When Harry was with the Cardinals, wasn't he run over by a car, and the story was Harry was allegedly fooling around with Busch's wife, and Busch basically ordered a "hit" on Harry?

The longtime rumor was that Harry was having an affair with wife of August Busch III. According to the late Jack Buck's autobiography, which does not mention the alleged affair but said "Harry was having problems in St. Louis," speculation that Harry would be fired started toward the end of the 1969 season. According to Buck, Gussie Busch (Augie's father) would take care of the situation (let Harry keep his job) if he kept his mouth shut. Alas, when an article about Harry's possible termination appeared in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Harry had the author of the Post-Dispatch article appear on his Cardinals pregame show. This sealed Harry's fate, and Gussie decided to fire him.

Lip Man 1
05-18-2004, 10:30 PM
With respect to Grobber this quote is more along the lines of what Harry said to Hawk during the postgame celebration on national TV since WGN Superstation was granted permission by SportsChannel to show the 9th inning and the celebrations afterwards: (by the way this matches the video that I have of the comment...)

“Wherever you’re at, Harry (Caray) and Jimmy (Piersall), eat your hearts out. I hope people realize what scum you are.” – Jerry Reinsdorf to “Hawk” Harrelson on a live TV interview from the White Sox dressing room after clinching the 1983 Western Division Championship. From the book Miracle on 35th Street. By Bob Logan. Pg. 141.

also just FYI here are some other media related comments:

“Though elated with the division crown, Reinsdorf and Einhorn lashed out at team critics. On a radio show the day after the (1983) clinching, Einhorn ripped into sportswriter Bill Gleason. ‘Take that Bill Gleason,’ Einhorn said gloating after reaching the two million mark. Gleason believed that cold and wet Aprils would always prevent the Sox from drawing two million fans. Meanwhile Reinsdorf referred to former Sox announcers Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall as ‘scum’ during clinching celebrations.”–From the book Through Hope And Despair. By Dan Helpingstein. Pg. 128.

“The Tribune Company has had an insidious influence on Chicago for a long time. That story was a deliberate attempt to make me look bad. The newspaper and WGN radio and TV can never be objective when you have the Tribune Company as owners of the Cubs and those media outlets. Now I’m hearing rumors that the Tribune Company wants to buy the Bears and that’s why Jim Finks (Bears’ General Manager who quit and soon was names Cubs’ president ) went to the Cubs. There should be a federal investigation. That story made it look like I left my box after Tito Landrum’s 10th inning home run because I was a bad loser. I’m sick and tired of it.” – Eddie Einhorn to Bob Logan. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. Pgs. 20-21. (Einhorn was responding to a headline in the Tribune from October 9, 1983 entitled ‘Homer Knocks Griping Einhorn Out Of Box.’ )

“The open-door policy is the unspoken rule because owners Eddie Einhorn and Jerry Reinsdorf are media oriented and aware they need exposure to compete with the Cubs for Chicago sports dollars.” – Bob Logan. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. Pg. 105.

“We were a freak show. The fans thought Harry and Jimmy were the stars. Things were insane.” – Eddie Einhorn. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. By Bob Logan Pg. 142.

“Most of Chicago’s media criticism was not malicious. If you make mistakes in running a team and things don’t go right, the media and fans have to criticize. The only people I believe were unfair to us and carried personal vendettas were Harry Caray, Jimmy Piersall and Bill Gleason. I think the three of them made a personal thing of wanting us to fail. Other then that our coverage has been objective and honest.” – Jerry Reinsdorf. To Bob Logan. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. Pg. 143.

“Eddie and I never discussed how to talk to reporters. We’ve just been ourselves. I always though Jack Kennedy was the kind of person I looked up to in that regard. He always gave the media a fair shake and understood you guys have a job to do. Without responsible people willing to divulge some accurate information, it’s hard to do it right. It was a much better approach then Nixon, who figured the media was his enemy. Doing it Kennedy’s way just makes a lot more sense to me. After all, nobody can buy the kind of advertising Chicago teams get. What other line of work finds newspapers assigning people to follow you around and write about how the business is doing every day? At Balcor, we have to hire a public relations firm to get our names in the paper. When baseball teams get that for free, it makes sense to cooperate.” – Jerry Reinsdorf. To Bob Logan. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. Pg. 154.

“I’ll be up in heaven looking down before (Jimmy) Piersall broadcasts another one of our games.”–Harry Caray repeating what Jerry Reinsdorf told him after Caray asked about putting Piersall back on Sox games. To Bob Logan. From the book Miracle On 35th Street. Pg. 144.

Lip

MJL_Sox_Fan
05-18-2004, 10:33 PM
This seems to be a rather foolish thread, but I do have one question, are there other announcers on the timeline boards in the upper deck or is it entirely players? If it is only players, doesn't it make sense that Harry would not not be included. Maybe there is no hidden agenda.

TornLabrum
05-18-2004, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by MJL_Sox_Fan
This seems to be a rather foolish thread, but I do have one question, are there other announcers on the timeline boards in the upper deck or is it entirely players? If it is only players, doesn't it make sense that Harry would not not be included. Maybe there is no hidden agenda.

Please! You're making far too much sense!

Irishsox1
05-18-2004, 11:30 PM
Reinsdorf wanted family fun at the ball park and Harry and Jimmy were dirty old drunks...not exactly family fun. Harry had to go because he represented the old Comiskey, the one with the fall down drunks, the smell of Pot and people yelling "Hey Harry!!" for the last three innings. The Cubs took a total gamble on Harry and it worked out, good for the Cubs. The Harry they got was a total buffoon. SNL Harry's best comment: "If you were a hot dog, would you eat yourself?"

TDog
05-19-2004, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by 32nd&Wallace
... Bigger than Dick Allen, Bill Melton, anyone. ...

Harry Caray thought he was bigger than the players. That was part of his problem. Bill Melton is one of the players he drove out of town.

Medford Bobby
05-19-2004, 01:55 AM
So Bob Elson took the A's job in 1971 after Harry had worked for a year there in 1970. I seemed to remember Elson's later years doing some "look back" sports program. Where does the "Commander" rank among Sox broadcaster's or is he already forgotten?? Bill Melton should have quit his bitchin' in those days and busted his ass some more............ :whiner:

TDog
05-19-2004, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
... Bill Melton should have quit his bitchin' in those days and busted his ass some more............ :whiner:

Bill Melton played in considerable pain. He worked a heck of a lot harder at his craft than Harry Caray did.

C-Dawg
05-19-2004, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
People yelling "Hey Harry!!" for the last three innings.

Heh heh, I always thought that was amusing. It was particularly noticeable on the radio for some reason.

Dan H
05-19-2004, 09:02 AM
I hate to agree with Eddie Einhorn but Carey and Piersall had become a freak show by 1980. The broadcasts were completely inane. However, Carey still did a great job of stirring interest in the Sox during the '70's. He certainly did a better job than Jack Drees ever did.

Carey was unfair to Melton, but Melton's stats didn't help. Melton and Ken Henderson just didn't do it in 1975 though it was too bad Melton's career was shortened by his injury.

As far as having a sense of history? The current Sox regime doesn't have it.

jackbrohamer
05-19-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by MJL_Sox_Fan
This seems to be a rather foolish thread, but I do have one question, are there other announcers on the timeline boards in the upper deck or is it entirely players? If it is only players, doesn't it make sense that Harry would not not be included. Maybe there is no hidden agenda.

There is a picture of Elson interviewing a player (Zeke Bonura I think)

tebman
05-19-2004, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
So Bob Elson took the A's job in 1971 after Harry had worked for a year there in 1970. I seemed to remember Elson's later years doing some "look back" sports program. Where does the "Commander" rank among Sox broadcaster's or is he already forgotten??

Bob Elson was a veteran radio broadcaster. He was deadly dull
as a play-by-play announcer, though. He did Sox games on the
radio for many years, mostly on WCFL (which, ironically, is the
same place they are now, but is now known as WMVP). I think
he held on to that job from the '40s through the early '60s
because baseball broadcasts were much lower-key things in
those years. It wasn't a time for boat-rockers, and Elson certainly
wasn't one.

There's been much more money at stake in recent decades, and
that's changed the radio/TV baseball broadcasts from low-key
time-fillers into Big Shows requiring Big Stars.

- tebman

GoSox2K3
05-19-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
The Cubs took a total gamble on Harry and it worked out, good for the Cubs.
It was a total gamble for the Cubs to hire Harry? Are you kidding? Hmmmm, let's see, their choice was to go with Milo Hamilton or to hire Harry Caray. I bet it took them about 0.5 seconds to decide to go with Harry. I bet the most difficult thing they had to deal with was being stunned at their dumb luck of having Harry Caray fall in their laps. And I'm not saying this with 20 years of hindsight - it was an obvious to everyone but Sox ownership at the time that this was a major coup for the Cubs.


people yelling "Hey Harry!!" for the last three innings.
Heh heh, I haven't thought about that in years! It's a good thing we got rid of colorful fans that could be heard on the broadcasts! We're much better off with a reputation of silent fans and empty seats.


The Harry they got was a total buffoon. That "buffoon" made the Cubs a household name nationwide. Veeck and Caray started a south side tradition of singing at the 7th inning stretch and Jerry and Eddie gave that away to the Cubs where it's become a national institution.

poorme
05-19-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by tebman

There's been much more money at stake in recent decades, and
that's changed the radio/TV baseball broadcasts from low-key
time-fillers into Big Shows requiring Big Stars.

- tebman

Mr. Big Star, Ed Farmer, who do you think you are!?

tebman
05-19-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Mr. Big Star, Ed Farmer, who do you think you are!?

LOL!

When I wrote "Big Stars," I sure didn't have Farmio in mind.
I probably should've written "Big Production" instead.

You've got a point, though. Maybe the intent to create a
Big Production makes guys like Farmer think he's a Big Star!

- tebman

JoseCanseco6969
05-19-2004, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but from what years was harry with the cards and what years was he with the sox? Thanks for anyones reply.

Irishsox1
05-19-2004, 12:07 PM
Chasing Harry away to the Cubs is not the only reason the Cubs are more popular than the Sox right now, it's one of many reason's the Cubs are more popular than the Sox. However, Harry to the Cubs was a risk because Harry had a reputation for getting after players. He stopped that when he was with the Cubs. The fans yelling "Hey Harry" were annoying somehow that stopped when he was with the Cubs. As for singing the 7th inning stretch, this is minor aspect that is given too much credit. Many packed stadiums don't have singers. The Cubs are more popular to the Sox because of Wrigley, the neighborhood, the loveable losers, and a little bit of Harry among other things. Putting any weight on the loss on Harry for lack of attedence in 2004 is flat out wrong.

Lip Man 1
05-19-2004, 12:14 PM
Harry was the Sox main announcer from the start of the 1971 season through the end of the 1981 season...11 years.

In many ways and in many years he was the only reason for anybody to be interested in the Sox. Particularly in the dismal yeats of 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979 and 1980.

Dan...perhaps Harry and Jimmy were a freak show but calling them out to insult them on national television during what should have been the finest moment in team history in 25 years shows how pretty and vindictive this owner really is. The only thing that seems to matter to him is gewtting his 'revenge.' It turns out Harry had the last laugh didn't he?

By the way if anyone is interested in hearing the great Sox announcers like Elson, Hamilton, Brickhouse, Caray, Drees (OK maybe he wasn't great! LOL) Drysdale...go to the main page at WSI, look on the far left side and directly below the 'baseball card of the week' feature you'll see links. Click on the one that says AUDIO MEMORIES. Then just go to the audio interactive theme you wish to hear. The audio clips are spaced throughout the stories.

Lip

Medford Bobby
05-19-2004, 02:33 PM
My point about Beltin' Bill Melton was he should have kept his focus on the field and play thru his injuries...by letting Harry get to his psyche, just added to the woeful way the club had started to perform (i.e. decline) :angry:

Harry would have been a huge Sunshine Boys promoter hook line and sinker if they had only realized his marketing potential........... :cool:

Maybe they would have marketed away from the 'party" atmophere...but guess what Harry wound up making a billon dollars for Budweiser during the Cup "I'm a Bud Man" years... :gulp: Imagine if that campaign would have worked on the southside??????? :?:

Grobber33
05-19-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
One correction. Elson didn't retire. He was fired. He broadcast in Oakland the year Harry moved to Chicago (from Oakland).

Wrong my Friend! Elson and Red Rush deceided together to accept the Oakland job in 1971 when Charlie Finley canned Harry.Finley was pissed when Harry kept referring to the empty seats in the Oakland Coliseum saying "BOY,THIS LIKE LIKE BROADCASTING FROM SIBERIA!". Charlie was mad as a,,uh,,,Mule!.

That's how Harry came to the Sox(on WEAW-FM,WTAQ,and WJOL for two years untill 1973 when Richie Allen and Bill Melton brought them back and WMAQ picked the games back up).

BTW, Elson and Rush did the A's games for just the 1971 season,then got wacked.Monty Moore the long time A's other broadcaster was considered a Spy for Finley by Harry,Elson and Red.

TornLabrum
05-19-2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Wrong my Friend! Elson and Red Rush deceided together to accept the Oakland job in 1971 when Charlie Finley canned Harry.Finley was pissed when Harry kept referring to the empty seats in the Oakland Coliseum saying "BOY,THIS LIKE LIKE BROADCASTING FROM SIBERIA!". Charlie was mad as a,,uh,,,Mule!.

That's how Harry came to the Sox(on WEAW-FM,WTAQ,and WJOL for two years untill 1973 when Richie Allen and Bill Melton brought them back and WMAQ picked the games back up).

BTW, Elson and Rush did the A's games for just the 1971 season,then got wacked.Monty Moore the long time A's other broadcaster was considered a Spy for Finley by Harry,Elson and Red.

As I remembered it, Sox ownership was none too thrilled with Elson's broadcasting style, which by that time was, as Rich Lindberg described in one of his books, "somnabulant." I recall hearing that the Sox dropped him. At any rate, since he ended up in Oakland, he certainly didn't retire as the statement I was replying to stated.

C-Dawg
05-19-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
The fans yelling "Hey Harry" were annoying somehow that stopped when he was with the Cubs.

Either the Cub fans were too polite to do the yelling, or else they never realized there was a longstanding tradition to do so! OR possibly the Cubs security people did their best to put the beat-down on those poor souls who DID try yelling for Harry that first season.

In my experience, growing up in the 70s with Harry and Jimmy on Ch. 44, and Brick and Lou Boudrou & Co. on Ch. 9.... Well, to me there was NO comparison. Harry kept the broadcast interesting. The Cubs broadcast, on the other hand, was one step away from a full-on coma. Brickhouse might have known his baseball, but he was about as exciting as watching paint dry. I don't think it was just me, either; many times I came home from school in the spring, or in September, and my mom would be there watching the Cubs, with her eyes firmly closed since about the 2nd inning. Ironically, both my parents were Cubs fans, but my brother and I quickly became Sox fans, and its quite possible Harry had an influence on that choice.

Speaking of Brick, however - Ironically, we went to a doubleheader at Wrigley against St. Louis in about 1978 or 1979... It was Jack's 5000th or 10,000th broadcast, or something historic like that. Between games, Mayor Jayne Byrne and Governor Thompson came out and read speeches, and presented jack with awards, etc. My parents actually sprung for good seats for this! Nevertheless, my brother and I still remained Sox fans, and I haven't been back to Wrigley since then.

Railsplitter
05-19-2004, 09:37 PM
The typical Harry Caray moment was like this: runners on second and thrid and there's a single Harry says, "One run is in. Here's another man trying to score." Let the Cubs consider somebody who couldn't remember the names of the guys on base a legend.

Maximo
05-19-2004, 09:44 PM
I have a good friend in St.Louis who has lived and died with the Cardinals since the late 50's. His job brought him to Chicago for a few years during the time it was announced that Harry was hired to broadcast games for the Sox. Because he was familiar with Carey in St.Louis, he told me two things. One, when the Sox are winning, you'll be listening to the best announcer who ever broadcast a game. Two, when the Sox are going bad, turn the sound down on your radio or TV.....whichever one has Harry on it because he'll make the bad news sound worse.

He was right.

Years later when he moved to the Northside and "began to lose his stride", I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Harry slur his way through a Cubs broadcast when they were getting their butts handed to them. Between the lousy play, the complaining, the slurred speech and the absent-mindedness....it was a riot.

Funny thing; however, this friend of mine once played me an album of the highlights from the Cardinals' pennant winning season in 1964. The play by play man was Harry Carey. He was the best I ever heard.

Medford Bobby
05-20-2004, 01:30 AM
I've got some Harry on some odd Cup broadcast where he came out of the commercial..(Now this is circa 1995 or so) "Harry Caray back at Sportsman's Park"...boy that was the only reason to turn on the northsiders.......also when he called Josh Lewyn then with the Cups as "Slosh"...... :smile:

:) Pour Harry a cold one for that...............

C-Dawg
05-20-2004, 05:21 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Cubs fans hate Harry at first? Back in 1982 - 1983, they all seemed to complain he was always a Sox fan, and always will be. In the 90s, Wrigley Field began to fill up with younger, frat-boy-type fans who had no memory of Harry's days with the Sox, so any early bias was forgotten.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-20-2004, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by C-Dawg
so any early bias was forgotten.

and so it passed out of knowledge and fact became myth and myth bcame legend. until all was forgotten.

Maximo
05-20-2004, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
I've got some Harry on some odd Cup broadcast where he came out of the commercial..(Now this is circa 1995 or so) "Harry Caray back at Sportsman's Park"...boy that was the only reason to turn on the northsiders.......also when he called Josh Lewyn then with the Cups as "Slosh"...... :smile:

:) Pour Harry a cold one for that...............


Two things.....

First of all, before anyone gets 'bent out of shape', the "slurred speech" comment from my earlier post was in reference to Harry's occasional drinking during a broadcast. Glad you understood that.

Secondly, your "Josh Lewin" anecdote reminds me that Harry Carey was probably the most difficult broadcaster to share a booth with. Even Jack Buck had a few run ins with him in St.Louis and they worked together for years.

About the only sidekick who could co-exist with Harry in a booth was Piersall. I guess if it "looks like a duck".........

Medford Bobby
05-20-2004, 12:12 PM
The post stroke years towards the end of his life were hard as hell to listen too.........The old Harry was gone and it was sad for someone who enjoyed the Sox years when there was a mixture of passion, knowledge and Falstaff. :D:

On 2nd thought maybe post stroke Harry is still better than pre stroke Chip....... :o:

Maximo
05-20-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
The post stroke years towards the end of his life were hard as hell to listen too.........The old Harry was gone and it was sad for someone who enjoyed the Sox years when there was a mixture of passion, knowledge and Falstaff. :D:

On 2nd thought maybe post stroke Harry is still better than pre stroke Chip....... :o:


You may be right.

Harry, after the stroke; however, was pretty sad. I may get hit with a lightning bolt from above for saying this, but I used to think that Harry actually passed away 5 years before it was made public to the rest of us. That was just a giant bobble head in the broadcast booth with somebody doing a lousy imitation of Harry during the last few years of his career.