PDA

View Full Version : Bring me the head of Valentin


fado
05-18-2004, 08:42 AM
I'm surprised that no one has really go after the fact that our slide coincides directly with the return of Jose. How many errors is it going to take beofre the Sox realize he's done? And to bench Uribe for Valentin for three when Uribe is the hottest hitter we got! Oops, I think Valentin just bobbled another double play ball! The lineup works with Harris leading off and Uribe behind him. If the Sox really want to keep Valentin in there sit Rowand like they did on Sunday and let Jose bat six or seven. My only feeling is that they are trying to showcase Jose for trade bait, but he's playing so poorly the Sox wouldn't be able to get two mules and a push cart! Hey, another ball off the glove of Jose. Must've taken a bad hop!

Hangar18
05-18-2004, 08:48 AM
Yup........our slide HAS coincided with his return :angry:

DaveIsHere
05-18-2004, 08:51 AM
WHy the HELL do they insist that he be in the line-up, this is really starting to piss me off, at this rate by the end of the minnie series this weekend we will be 9 games out, then what Ozzie, fail like last year??

Frater Perdurabo
05-18-2004, 08:54 AM
How about:

2B Harris
SS Uribe
RF Maggs
1B/DH Frank
CF STEVE FINLEY (traded from Arizona)
LF Lee
DH Valentin/ 1B Konerko (lefty/righty platoon)
3B Crede
C Olivo

bobj4400
05-18-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
How about:

2B Harris
SS Uribe
RF Maggs
1B/DH Frank
CF STEVE FINLEY (traded from Arizona)
LF Lee
DH Valentin/ 1B Konerko (lefty/righty platoon)
3B Crede
C Olivo

This should be in deep pink. I dont think KW will allow anything that takes his precious Manos out of the everyday lineup...

jabrch
05-18-2004, 09:15 AM
:chickenlittle

sas1974
05-18-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by DaveIsHere
WHy the HELL do they insist that he be in the line-up, this is really starting to piss me off, at this rate by the end of the minnie series this weekend we will be 9 games out, then what Ozzie, fail like last year??

I can think of 5 million reasons why he's in the lineup everyday.

fado
05-18-2004, 09:37 AM
But that's the point...he had one good year 2000, why the hell did they give him a $5 million dollar contract. Even in 2000 he committed an outrageous amount of errors and it continues to this day. Plus he is not the hitter he was then. Uribe could easily fill his role and Valentin could spot him. We will get smoked by Minny this weekend if this continues.

hold2dibber
05-18-2004, 09:38 AM
What the hell are you people talking about? The Sox slide has had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jose's poor defense - it has had everything to do with the fact that this team hasn't been hitting at all (save for two games) in the last week and a half. That the offense sputtered when he came back is obviously a coincidence and not a cause-and-effect thing, as he's actually been hitting better than most (2 HRs and a .829 OPS over the 7 games since he came back). And, in fact, the bad streak started BEFORE Jose came back (he was NOT playing when the Sox got swept in Toronto the weekend before last). This whole thread is complete b.s. It's one thing to complaint about Jose's defense - it's another to claim that his defense is the cause of the lousy play of late when that is categorically and obviously untrue.

The problem lately has been the offense, and Jose is a hell of a lot better hitter (at least against right handed pitchers) than Rowand is. Anyone who thinks Jose shouldn't be in there against right handed pitchers is nuts. The obvious answer is the Sunday line-up (with Harris in CF leading off, Uribe at 2B hitting 2nd, Jose at SS hitting 6th and Rowand on the bench). On the rare occassions when the Sox face a lefty, Rowand starts and you sit either Harris or Valentin (neither of whom can hit lefties).

fado
05-18-2004, 10:18 AM
Actually his first game back was in Toronto when we got swept. We lost the first game 5-4 and Valentin SO twice. He didn't play in game two where Cotts gave up the homer in the eighth. In game three he went 1-3, and GIDP. I'm saying that there was a chemistry that was lost when Jose came back, and IMHO chemistry means a lot in baseball. Especially when you are 4-2 going into the series with Toronto to start the month.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by fado
I'm surprised that no one has really go after the fact that our slide coincides directly with the return of Jose. How many errors is it going to take beofre the Sox realize he's done? And to bench Uribe for Valentin for three when Uribe is the hottest hitter we got! Oops, I think Valentin just bobbled another double play ball! The lineup works with Harris leading off and Uribe behind him. If the Sox really want to keep Valentin in there sit Rowand like they did on Sunday and let Jose bat six or seven. My only feeling is that they are trying to showcase Jose for trade bait, but he's playing so poorly the Sox wouldn't be able to get two mules and a push cart! Hey, another ball off the glove of Jose. Must've taken a bad hop!

Maybe his being here put Ozzie in a lineup making bind, but please tell me it's not Jose's fault we're in a slump.

pinwheels3530
05-18-2004, 11:01 AM
the name of this topic should be called something else due to recent events.

Hokiesox
05-18-2004, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
I can think of 5 million reasons why he's in the lineup everyday.

Only 4.9 million of those reasons don't make sense

JRIG
05-18-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
What the hell are you people talking about? The Sox slide has had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jose's poor defense - it has had everything to do with the fact that this team hasn't been hitting at all (save for two games) in the last week and a half. That the offense sputtered when he came back is obviously a coincidence and not a cause-and-effect thing, as he's actually been hitting better than most (2 HRs and a .829 OPS over the 7 games since he came back). And, in fact, the bad streak started BEFORE Jose came back (he was NOT playing when the Sox got swept in Toronto the weekend before last). This whole thread is complete b.s. It's one thing to complaint about Jose's defense - it's another to claim that his defense is the cause of the lousy play of late when that is categorically and obviously untrue.

The problem lately has been the offense, and Jose is a hell of a lot better hitter (at least against right handed pitchers) than Rowand is. Anyone who thinks Jose shouldn't be in there against right handed pitchers is nuts. The obvious answer is the Sunday line-up (with Harris in CF leading off, Uribe at 2B hitting 2nd, Jose at SS hitting 6th and Rowand on the bench). On the rare occassions when the Sox face a lefty, Rowand starts and you sit either Harris or Valentin (neither of whom can hit lefties).

Come on, you know the only reason Minnesota started playing better last year was Shannon Stewart appearing in the lineup. Same thing here, just in reverse. You can't look at factors like what other players are doing.

kittle42
05-18-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
the name of this topic should be called something else due to recent events.

Yeah, and they should have stopped making references to to war and bombs in football after September 11.

hold2dibber
05-18-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by fado
Actually his first game back was in Toronto when we got swept. We lost the first game 5-4 and Valentin SO twice. He didn't play in game two where Cotts gave up the homer in the eighth. In game three he went 1-3, and GIDP.

You're right - Jose did play in the first game of the Toronto series (the ESPN Jose page is goofed up and doesn't show that he did). And although it's true he struck out twice, he also had a hit, an RBI and a stolen base (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240507114) (and an error).

I'm saying that there was a chemistry that was lost when Jose came back, and IMHO chemistry means a lot in baseball. Especially when you are 4-2 going into the series with Toronto to start the month.

So first it was his defense (at the beginning of the thread) but when that gets shot down, he's suddenly the cause of the chemistry problem? Give me a break. Do you think it's more likely that the fact that the team went into a collective funk was just a coincidence or do you really think that his presence in the line-up somehow caused a "chemistry" problem? Is there any evidence that guys don't like Jose or that he is somehow a distraction? No. The funk they're in right now is an exact repeat of the funks this team repeatedly has gone into over the past few years - it is a collective characteristic of the core of this team that has been repeated time and time again over the years. Suggesting that this time, Jose is the cause of it is absurd and unsupportable.