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batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 01:35 AM
My friend told me with scarce detail that Gammons said that the White Sox are going to trade Konerko, get a starter and a left handed hitter. I don't know if it was factual reporting or vintage "Gammons speculation" which will never come into fruition. It was on BBTN tonight, if anyone saw it what did he say?

kittle42
05-18-2004, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
My friend told me with scarce detail that Gammons said that the White Sox are going to trade Konerko, get a starter and a left handed hitter. I don't know if it was factual reporting or vintage "Gammons speculation" which will never come into fruition. It was on BBTN tonight, if anyone saw it what did he say?

I'd love to see this one get verified.

Win1ForMe
05-18-2004, 01:41 AM
I guess Gammons brought this up on BBTN.

He's better than what we have, but if you're going to trade for a pitcher, get an ace, not another #3 starter. Benson has a 4.64 ERA and has gotten shelled the last two starts. I'll take a pass.

Only good thing about him is he's got a hot wife...
http://www.annabenson.net/gallery/gall2g.jpg http://www.annabenson.net/gallery/flash6.jpg

Jjav829
05-18-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
My friend told me with scarce detail that Gammons said that the White Sox are going to trade Konerko, get a starter and a left handed hitter. I don't know if it was factual reporting or vintage "Gammons speculation" which will never come into fruition. It was on BBTN tonight, if anyone saw it what did he say?

It was in his Diamond Notes on BBTN. He talked about how Kenny is always one of the first to make a move and how he jumped everyone else making the big trades in June last year. He said that KW will look to make a move for a pitcher and that KW is interested in Kris Benson. While he was talking they also ran a clip of an Oakland pitcher that looked to be Justin Duchscherer but there was no mention of him. Gammons did then mention that he thinks KW will look to trade Konerko and bring in a lefty. He thinks that KW feels this team has a good chance of making the playoffs and then making a run.

kittle42
05-18-2004, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Gammons did then mention that he thinks KW will look to trade Konerko and bring in a lefty. He thinks that KW feels this team has a good chance of making the playoffs and then making a run.

Don't wait too long or we'll be done for.

The Twins never lose.

pudge
05-18-2004, 01:43 AM
Can we get that D'Backs pitcher who is married to the USA softball player?? I wouldn't mind seeing her in the stands.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I guess Gammons brought this up on BBTN.

He's better than what we have, but if you're going to trade for a pitcher, get an ace, not another #3 starter. Benson has a 4.64 ERA and has gotten shelled the last two starts. I'll take a pass.

Only good thing about him is he's got a hot wife...
http://www.annabenson.net/gallery/gall2g.jpg http://www.annabenson.net/gallery/flash6.jpg

Yeah I don't see him putting us over the top. He's like another Garland only he makes a lot more money. Our rotation would have 5 capable guys then, but you have to go for the gold...get an ace.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
It was in his Diamond Notes on BBTN. He talked about how Kenny is always one of the first to make a move and how he jumped everyone else making the big trades in June last year. He said that KW will look to make a move for a pitcher and that KW is interested in Kris Benson. While he was talking they also ran a clip of an Oakland pitcher that looked to be Justin Duchscherer but there was no mention of him. Gammons did then mention that he thinks KW will look to trade Konerko and bring in a lefty. He thinks that KW feels this team has a good chance of making the playoffs and then making a run.

That's about what I envisioned. Nothing more than what we should all expect, KW will make at least one big move next month or early July.

I certainly don't see us trading Konerko FOR a lefty. Those would have to be separate deals. I'll take a good reliever for Pauly.

Win1ForMe
05-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
While he was talking they also ran a clip of an Oakland pitcher that looked to be Justin Duchscherer but there was no mention of him. Gammons did then mention that he thinks KW will look to trade Konerko and bring in a lefty. He thinks that KW feels this team has a good chance of making the playoffs and then making a run.

I sure would like to know which other GM Kenny and Gammons think will take Konerko.

:dumbash
"Don't worry, I'm here for ya."

EDIT: Yes, I know he's no longer a GM.

kittle42
05-18-2004, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Yeah I don't see him putting us over the top. He's like another Garland only he makes a lot more money. Our rotation would have 5 capable guys then, but you have to go for the gold...get an ace.

And yes....I will continue to harp on this: We had one. He pitches for Anaheim.

doublem23
05-18-2004, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
And yes....I will continue to harp on this: We had one. He pitches for Anaheim.

And yes, they overpay for him.

Christ, he was offered the most expensive deal in club history and we still bitch. For all the overpayed morons roaming around this team we complain about (Valentin, Konerko, etc.), what's our fascination with the ones departed?

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
And yes....I will continue to harp on this: We had one. He pitches for Anaheim.

He's not dependable. He never won big games for us, Anaheim can have him. He's better than what we got, but I'm not gonna harp on that.

Nard
05-18-2004, 02:15 AM
He's not exactly lighting it up over there, at least not as much as he's getting paid for.

SoxxoS
05-18-2004, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Nard
He's not exactly lighting it up over there, at least not as much as he's getting paid for.

Here is how I look at the Benson situation:

Which one is the greater discrepancy?

The Benson to Diaz difference +3 million to payroll

------OR----------

The Konerko to Gload/Thomas -8 million dollars (Plus another year).


The answer is a no-brainer.

HITMEN OF 77
05-18-2004, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
My friend told me with scarce detail that Gammons said that the White Sox are going to trade Konerko, get a starter and a left handed hitter.

I will now cry myself to sleep.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-18-2004, 03:01 AM
i'm a huge pk fan, but if he doesn't start producing then i'm sorry man, that's how the game goes.

SSN721
05-18-2004, 07:32 AM
I just hope to god it is true. As much as I like Konerko and was there for the elation of the Baltimore game when he hit that three run homer to eventually win it, his clutch hits (or hits in general) are far and few betweena nd I am sick of him being pretty much an automatic out via popup or ground out. I would be just fine with getting a releiver for him, if not just to free up the salary, I cant see how Gload could be any worse then him.

1951Campbell
05-18-2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by pudge
Can we get that D'Backs pitcher who is married to the USA softball player?? I wouldn't mind seeing her in the stands.

She could be the fifth starter.

Frater Perdurabo
05-18-2004, 09:15 AM
I hope PK does get traded and the Sox swing deals to fill the following holes:

1. A left-handed hitter who can hit #5 behind Frank.
2. A center fielder.
3. An ace starting pitcher.
4. A closer.

Steve Finley fits both #1 and #2 above.

wdelaney72
05-18-2004, 09:22 AM
Konerko will have to be given away.

Who else will pay $8 million a year for a guy who is trying to lead the league in hitting into double plays.

Frater Perdurabo
05-18-2004, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Konerko will have to be given away.

Who else will pay $8 million a year for a guy who is trying to lead the league in hitting into double plays.

Is there a chance the Sox would pick up part of his salary? I mean, they are paying his full salary right now for his pop-ups, ground-outs and double-play ground-outs.

Methinks dumping him would be addition by subtraction.

bartmanisgod
05-18-2004, 12:29 PM
The sooner the better! I have been follwoing Benson for a while! He has solid mechanics and could easily be a 20 game winner next season! I love this move! Get GIDPK outta here! I would do it 10 times over no matter if paulie was hitting .370! Get the 8 mil outta town!

kittle42
05-18-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
And yes, they overpay for him.

Christ, he was offered the most expensive deal in club history and we still bitch. For all the overpayed morons roaming around this team we complain about (Valentin, Konerko, etc.), what's our fascination with the ones departed?

The difference is that the one who departed was, oh, I don't know....good?

soxtalker
05-18-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
The difference is that the one who departed was, oh, I don't know....good?

One could make an argument that the ones we have on our current roster (e.g., Konerko) were also playing pretty well at the time they were signed. The problem with Colon isn't so much how well he does this year, but, rather, what he'll do in 2 or 3 years.

Tekijawa
05-18-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Gammons did then mention that he thinks KW will look to trade Konerko and bring in a lefty.

If I remember corectly he said Ideally it would be a CF... and there have already been about 50 threads about a Switch Hitting CF that is available. I can't see KC taking Konerko though for him.

rahulsekhar
05-18-2004, 01:44 PM
How's this for convoluted:

1) Valentin + Koch to the M's for Garcia+Guardado - M's trade pitching (which they have a lot of) for O, Sox take on the longer term deal in Eddie, freeing up M's $$$ after this year when Koch walks

2) Konerko to the Angels for Sele - I think they have similar contracts and they might take a hitter to bolster their injury situation

3) Sele + Diaz to the DBacks for Finley - Basically, Diaz should still have good value despite 2 bad starts, and the DBacks get him for rentaplayer in Finley.

Sox end up dealing Koney/Koch/Val/Diaz for Finley/Garcia/Guardado. Finley/Garcia should be resignable and that frees up enough to keep Maggs at his 14/yr (although I think that's overpaying for him).

The_Floridian
05-18-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
How's this for convoluted:

1) Valentin + Koch to the M's for Garcia+Guardado - M's trade pitching (which they have a lot of) for O, Sox take on the longer term deal in Eddie, freeing up M's $$$ after this year when Koch walks

2) Konerko to the Angels for Sele - I think they have similar contracts and they might take a hitter to bolster their injury situation

3) Sele + Diaz to the DBacks for Finley - Basically, Diaz should still have good value despite 2 bad starts, and the DBacks get him for rentaplayer in Finley.

Sox end up dealing Koney/Koch/Val/Diaz for Finley/Garcia/Guardado. Finley/Garcia should be resignable and that frees up enough to keep Maggs at his 14/yr (although I think that's overpaying for him).

A few problems with this:

1) The Mariners are just starting a long term deal with Guardado and Sasaki is back in Japan. Guardado's not going anywhere.

2) Sele is a train wreck and the D-Backs would never take him, especially since they are trying to get younger.

3) Nobody wants Koch.

There are some good players out there who I think we have a shot at. Certainly a Garcia for Valentin + Minor leaguer deal seems very possible. But there are some players we are just not going to get.

We will never get Carlos Beltran. The Royals are going to deal him to a team to someone who intends to keep him after this season (like New York) so they can get mroe out of the deal. And even if they didn't, they certainly wouldn't trade him to a division rival.

We will not get Guardado either, for the rasons listed above.

We can go pie in the sky all day (Konerko for Finley! Nevermind that they already have Sexson!) but I think a more realistic scenario would be Valentin + good minor league pitcher for Garcia and maybe more good minor league pitching and/or Anderson ro Sweeney for Finley.

I'd rather do the Garcia trade.

LauraJ14
05-18-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by wdelaney72
Konerko will have to be given away.

Who else will pay $8 million a year for a guy who is trying to lead the league in hitting into double plays.


Well Konerko and Crede lead the the Sox with 5 GiDP with Lee and Ordonez second with 4. League leaders are 8 and those include Andurw Jones, Albert Pujols and Eric Chavez. Maybe those players should be traded away too!

soxtalker
05-18-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by The_Floridian
A few problems with this:

...
3) Nobody wants Koch.

....

Not sure that this is true. Koch has been putting up some pretty good numbers lately. Yes, he makes almost every appearance "interesting,"
but that was his reputation in Oakland when he was one of the top relievers. If you are the GM of a team that is desperate for a closer (and I'm not talking about the proposed M's trade that motivated your comment), Koch might look pretty good.

rahulsekhar
05-18-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by The_Floridian
A few problems with this:

1) The Mariners are just starting a long term deal with Guardado and Sasaki is back in Japan. Guardado's not going anywhere.

Which is why the might deal him since they're not contending and are likely going to have to rebuild a bit. They get financial flexibility out of it


2) Sele is a train wreck and the D-Backs would never take him, especially since they are trying to get younger.

Sele's actually pitching decently and has only had 1 outing where he gave up more 3 runs. Plus he's got an expiring contract (IIRC).Basically, it gives the DBacks a better end of the rotation option than Casey Daigle, is relatively cash-neutral, and they maintain the end of year salary coming off the books. Plus they get Diaz.


3) Nobody wants Koch.
For financial flexibility and taking a guy who's pitched decently this year to a park where some of his long balls will get caught? I bet they'd do that (the underlying assumption is that recognizing that they need to rebuild a bit, the financial flexibility will be attractive to them)

We will never get Carlos Beltran. The Royals are going to deal him to a team to someone who intends to keep him after this season (like New York) so they can get mroe out of the deal. And even if they didn't, they certainly wouldn't trade him to a division rival.
IMO there's virtually no chance Scott Boras doesn't take Beltran to FA. Still, I could agree with you if the Yanks had any prospects to trade. The Sox can dip down to their 2d tier guys and come up with better value for Carlos than the Yanks can. No one else has a hope of keeping Carlos off the market.

SoxxoS
05-18-2004, 02:30 PM
Is anyone opposed to Valentin plus Borchard (or a mid-level prospect) for Danny Graves (the NL saves leader)?

MRKARNO
05-18-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Is anyone opposed to Valentin plus Borchard (or a mid-level prospect) for Danny Graves (the NL saves leader)?

The Number of Saves is an overrated stat, but what's more important is save percentage. He's 17 out of 20 which means that he's saved 85% of the games that they brought him in for. In addition, he has one non-blown save loss. This is just a passable amount as far as I'm concerned, but nothing special. We can do better for those two. Plus Graves makes 6 million this year and 6.25 next year. His team has given him a lot of save opportunities which leads to the 17 saves. I am more in favor of Braden Looper who has yet to give up an earned run so far this year in 20.2 innings pitched. He has 6 saves and he blew one, but that's less of a sample size than Graves. In addition to his 0.00 ERA, he makes half the money as Graves. 3 Mil this year and 3 mil next year. He might be able to fit into the budget for next year too. Plus he's been a lot more consistant than Graves the last few years in terms of ERA.

Randar68
05-18-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
The Number of Saves is an overrated stat, but what's more important is save percentage. He's 17 out of 20 which means that he's saved 85% of the games that they brought him in for. In addition, he has one non-blown save loss. This is just a passable amount as far as I'm concerned, but nothing special. We can do better for those two. Plus Graves makes 6 million this year and 6.25 next year. His team has given him a lot of save opportunities which leads to the 17 saves. I am more in favor of Braden Looper who has yet to give up an earned run so far this year in 20.2 innings pitched. He has 6 saves and he blew one, but that's less of a sample size than Graves. In addition to his 0.00 ERA, he makes half the money as Graves. 3 Mil this year and 3 mil next year. He might be able to fit into the budget for next year too. Plus he's been a lot more consistant than Graves the last few years in terms of ERA.

Heck, send them Koch and some throw-in then, as he comes off the books, and we'd be on the hook for the 6.25 million next year... Good financial deal for them, IMO.

SoxxoS
05-18-2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
The Number of Saves is an overrated stat, but what's more important is save percentage. He's 17 out of 20 which means that he's saved 85% of the games that they brought him in for. In addition, he has one non-blown save loss. This is just a passable amount as far as I'm concerned, but nothing special. We can do better for those two. Plus Graves makes 6 million this year and 6.25 next year. His team has given him a lot of save opportunities which leads to the 17 saves. I am more in favor of Braden Looper who has yet to give up an earned run so far this year in 20.2 innings pitched. He has 6 saves and he blew one, but that's less of a sample size than Graves. In addition to his 0.00 ERA, he makes half the money as Graves. 3 Mil this year and 3 mil next year. He might be able to fit into the budget for next year too. Plus he's been a lot more consistant than Graves the last few years in terms of ERA.

I agree it's an overrated stat...but what isn't overrated is a closer we can give the ball to and not worry as much as we do with Koch. We aren't going to get a 1st tier closer like Gagne or Wagner, so Graves (or Looper) would be great options. Either or.

Randar-If Looper keeps performing like he has, the Mets will be happy to pay that 3 million next year to Looper...it would be a bargain.

Randar68
05-18-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Plus he's been a lot more consistant than Graves the last few years in terms of ERA.

Graves' ERA was destroyed due to taking one of the better closers in the game and trying to make him a starter last year.

hold2dibber
05-18-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
How's this for convoluted:

1) Valentin + Koch to the M's for Garcia+Guardado - M's trade pitching (which they have a lot of) for O, Sox take on the longer term deal in Eddie, freeing up M's $$$ after this year when Koch walks

There's no way the Mariners would do this. First of all, they just signed Aurilia this off season - why would they want Jose? They're not going to trade Garcia for expiring contracts - HIS contract is expiring anyway; they'd trade him to get someone who will be with them down the road. They're going to want prospects. And while I suppose they might be willing to trade Guardado, they'd only do so if they decide to go into a serious rebuilding effort; otherwise, they've got no other closer and he's signed for at least another year or two. IMHO, to get both of those guys, the Sox would have to give up something like: Rauch, Munoz and Valido.


I'd do Konerko for Sele (assuming that Sele is in the last year of his contract). I don't think that idea is far-fetched.

I don't think the Mets would do Sele and Diaz for Finley. There will be some bidders for Finley (assuming the D'Backs are inclined to trade him) and I think they'll be able to get more than you've proposed.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
There's no way the Mariners would do this. First of all, they just signed Aurilia this off season - why would they want Jose? They're not going to trade Garcia for expiring contracts - HIS contract is expiring anyway; they'd trade him to get someone who will be with them down the road. They're going to want prospects. And while I suppose they might be willing to trade Guardado, they'd only do so if they decide to go into a serious rebuilding effort; otherwise, they've got no other closer and he's signed for at least another year or two. IMHO, to get both of those guys, the Sox would have to give up something like: Rauch, Munoz and Valido.


I'd do Konerko for Sele (assuming that Sele is in the last year of his contract). I don't think that idea is far-fetched.

I don't think the Mets would do Sele and Diaz for Finley. There will be some bidders for Finley (assuming the D'Backs are inclined to trade him) and I think they'll be able to get more than you've proposed.

Unless Anderson is out for the year, the Angels are set in the outfield...Guillen, Guerrero and Anderson..plus Erstad, who must've been playing first (?)

rahulsekhar
05-18-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Unless Anderson is out for the year, the Angels are set in the outfield...Guillen, Guerrero and Anderson..plus Erstad, who must've been playing first (?)

The problem is they still don't know what Anderson's back problem is, so there's no ETA on his return. Then Glaus is out for the year, Erstad's hurt, Salmon's hurt (like always). They've got some decent backups in Figgins & Kotchman, but the injuries might make them amenable to taking on konerko, especially if they can shed a similar salary in Sele.

rahulsekhar
05-18-2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
There's no way the Mariners would do this. First of all, they just signed Aurilia this off season - why would they want Jose?

The answer to this lies in this quote from the Sporting News

How long can the Mariners keep putting Aurilia in the lineup on an everyday basis? He's hitting .229, he's slugging a pathetic .280 and he hasn't hit a home run in 118 at-bats

They've got decent pitching and terrible O. Weakening their pitching to improve their O is IMO something they might very well do.

ChiSox7
05-18-2004, 04:24 PM
WE DONT NEED PITCHING....

WE NEED OFFENSE. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH


OOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

PITCHING IS AWESOME.

ARGH>

OEO Magglio
05-18-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
WE DONT NEED PITCHING....

WE NEED OFFENSE. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH


OOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

PITCHING IS AWESOME.

ARGH>
The sox need one more pitcher, the top four are great. If they can swing a deal for a garcia or a benson or someone and maybe get rid of carlos and pk at the same time, not only are they adding another arm but they're doing some addition by subtraction, I think Ross Gload needs to play somewhere but until carlos or pk is gone he has no where to play because of the money situation. The sox also have Jeremy Reed waiting and could be ready in June or July, both ross would provide left handed bats who don't always swing for the fences and can run.

he_gone_89
05-18-2004, 04:28 PM
I think that Paul is a great defensive player
and he has his ups and downs with the bat
just like valentin and harris and thomas

but we shouldn't trade him,and if we do
we certainly dont need another reliever


but speaking of trades
i say we trade koch for benson's wife
she could help us get some "wins",eh?

:)

rahulsekhar
05-18-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by he_gone_89
I think that Paul is a great defensive player
and he has his ups and downs with the bat
just like valentin and harris and thomas

but we shouldn't trade him,and if we do
we certainly dont need another reliever


but speaking of trades
i say we trade koch for benson's wife
she could help us get some "wins",eh?

:) She'd work better for an NL team, I'm sure opposing pitchers wouldn't mind going down & in on her!

hold2dibber
05-18-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
The answer to this lies in this quote from the Sporting News



They've got decent pitching and terrible O. Weakening their pitching to improve their O is IMO something they might very well do.

The Mariners have to decide whether they think they can get back in it this year or not. If they decide they can, they might consider trading for Valentin to replace Aurilia and boost their offense - but if they think they can get back in it, they're sure as hell not going to be trading their best starter (Garcia) and their closer (Guardado) to get him.

If they decide they're not in it, they might trade Garcia and/or Guardado, but they're sure as hell not going to want Valentin, who is in the last year of his contract, in return. If they're giving up on this year and going into a rebuilding mode, they're not going to want Valentin; they're going to want someone younger who will be their property for more than 3 months.

Therefore, I don't think the trade idea you floated is remotely feasible.

pearso66
05-18-2004, 05:13 PM
How about Carlos Lee for Garcia and maybe a 2nd level prospect? Lee can play Left for them, he can also spell olerud at 1st and Martinez at DH. or maybe we could send carlos and jose over for garcia and winn? I don't know about Winn, I like him and all, but i think that if they were to take carlos, they'd like to get rid of an OFer

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The Mariners have to decide whether they think they can get back in it this year or not. If they decide they can, they might consider trading for Valentin to replace Aurilia and boost their offense - but if they think they can get back in it, they're sure as hell not going to be trading their best starter (Garcia) and their closer (Guardado) to get him.

If they decide they're not in it, they might trade Garcia and/or Guardado, but they're sure as hell not going to want Valentin, who is in the last year of his contract, in return. If they're giving up on this year and going into a rebuilding mode, they're not going to want Valentin; they're going to want someone younger who will be their property for more than 3 months.

Therefore, I don't think the trade idea you floated is remotely feasible.

Lee, Rauch, Munoz, Valido and Pacheco

for

Garcia, Guardado and Winn.

We're filling 5 needs with one trade...

1. Winn gives us a legitimatte leadoff man with speed, that we KNOW is an everyday player (not really the case with Harris)
2. He also gives us a legitimate everyday center fielder and he can field pretty well.
3. Garcia gives us the ace we need.
4. Garcia also pushes everyone down one slot in the rotation, not only taking pressure off everyone, but also ridding us of the 5th starter abyss that we've had for two years.
5. Guardado gives us a competent closer that could close games in the playoffs if need be.

Winn
Uribe
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Valentin
Crede
Gload/Reed LF
Olivo

Garcia
Buehrle
Loaiza
Schoeneweis
Garland

Koch can either be traded if we can somehow find a way to do that, or else just pitch setup and mop up now and then. He is improved from last year so he's not killing us. However he cannot be relied on as the closer, especially not in the playoffs where he's choked before.

OEO Magglio
05-18-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Lee, Rauch, Munoz, Valido and Pacheco

for

Garcia, Guardado and Winn.

We're filling 5 needs with one trade...

1. Winn gives us a legitimatte leadoff man with speed, that we KNOW is an everyday player (not really the case with Harris)
2. He also gives us a legitimate everyday center fielder and he can field pretty well.
3. Garcia gives us the ace we need.
4. Garcia also pushes everyone down one slot in the rotation, not only taking pressure off everyone, but also ridding us of the 5th starter abyss that we've had for two years.
5. Guardado gives us a competent closer that could close games in the playoffs if need be.

Winn
Uribe
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Valentin
Crede
Gload/Reed LF
Olivo

Garcia
Buehrle
Loaiza
Schoeneweis
Garland

Koch can either be traded if we can somehow find a way to do that, or else just pitch setup and mop up now and then. He is improved from last year so he's not killing us. However he cannot be relied on as the closer, especially not in the playoffs where he's choked before.
What has willie done to lose his job?? Have a better obp then Maggs. Willie has been great this year and one of the bright spots in the lineup, while I would love to get winn in no way should willie lose his job.

OEO Magglio
05-18-2004, 05:30 PM
Also guardado has a much better era then Koch but guess what Koch is 6 of 7 in save chances and Guardado is 5 of 7, Koch is the closer and should be until pitches his way out of it.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
What has willie done to lose his job?? Have a better obp then Maggs. Willie has been great this year and one of the bright spots in the lineup, while I would love to get winn in no way should willie lose his job.

No, they have the same on-base percentage. Harris is much faster and has gotten bunt hits and infield hits that Magglio can't and won't get partly because he doesn't bunt. Harris will fall down to .330 or so and Maggs will be at .380. And don't even touch slugging--Harris's slugging percentage is one point higher than Maggs on-base (.366).

Willie's not the answer. I'm not gonna work my trades around him if I'm the GM. He'll be a valuable utility man. He can platoon with Uribe at second who'll platoon with Valentin at short. Uribe of course starting every day at either position.

OEO Magglio
05-18-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
No, they have the same on-base percentage. Harris is much faster and has gotten bunt hits and infield hits that Magglio can't and won't get partly because he doesn't bunt. Harris will fall down to .330 or so and Maggs will be at .380. And don't even touch slugging--Harris's slugging percentage is one point higher than Maggs on-base (.366).

Willie's not the answer. I'm not gonna work my trades around him if I'm the GM. He'll be a valuable utility man. He can platoon with Uribe at second who'll platoon with Valentin at short. Uribe of course starting every day at either position.
They do have the same obp(the tribune had willie's higher) but in no way am I saying willie is a better hitter then maggs because that's just not true. I'm just trying to say willie has been great this year and you can't say he's not the answer because he's done nothing to prove he isn't a major league second baseman and he's done absolutely nothing to lose his job.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
They do have the same obp(the tribune had willie's higher) but in no way am I saying willie is a better hitter then maggs because that's just not true. I'm just trying to say willie has been great this year and you can't say he's not the answer because he's done nothing to prove he isn't a major league second baseman and he's done absolutely nothing to lose his job.

He doesn't really have a job now. He hasn't been an every day player this year. Most every day, but not every day. Don't you think that has something to do with his success? He'd still get decent playing time with Winn on the team.

ChiSox7
05-18-2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
He doesn't really have a job now. He hasn't been an every day player this year. Most every day, but not every day. Don't you think that has something to do with his success? He'd still get decent playing time with Winn on the team.

I'd take Willie over Winn right now. No doubt about that.

WinningUgly!
05-18-2004, 06:17 PM
What/who would the Sox have to include in a deal for John Olerud & Jamie Moyer?

MRKARNO
05-18-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
What/who would the Sox have to include in a deal for John Olerud & Jamie Moyer?

I would shy away from these two as they both appear to be entering the final declines of their respective careers.

illinibk
05-18-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
No, they have the same on-base percentage. Harris is much faster and has gotten bunt hits and infield hits that Magglio can't and won't get partly because he doesn't bunt. Harris will fall down to .330 or so and Maggs will be at .380. And don't even touch slugging--Harris's slugging percentage is one point higher than Maggs on-base (.366).

Ummm...why should Willie Harris, a leadoff hitter, need to have a higher slugging percentage than Magglio ordonez, a power hitter? Willie isn't paid to swing for the fences and get gap shots every couple of at bats. He is paid to get on base, plain and simple. if he is able to do that stuff on occasion, thats a bonus, but that is not Willie's role on this team, just like it is nots Magg's role to drop down bunt singles down the third base line.

WinningUgly!
05-18-2004, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I would shy away from these two as they both appear to be entering the final declines of their respective careers.

Maybe so, but I'd still rather have a lefty bat like Olerud's in the lineup over Konerko (even though he's not putting up numbers like he used to) & Moyer would simply make the rotation better.

I'm just trying to throw out a package of players that would fill a few of our needs, as well as being somewhat realistically attainable.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by illinibk
Ummm...why should Willie Harris, a leadoff hitter, need to have a higher slugging percentage than Magglio ordonez, a power hitter? Willie isn't paid to swing for the fences and get gap shots every couple of at bats. He is paid to get on base, plain and simple. if he is able to do that stuff on occasion, thats a bonus, but that is not Willie's role on this team, just like it is nots Magg's role to drop down bunt singles down the third base line.

I was responding to a guy who sounded like he was comparing Harris to Maggs. Just because one's hot and one's cold and their obp's are the same.

Maggs actually might have his best year. So far he's had a few of his usual cold weather slumps but he has 8 rbi in the last week and 31 on the year. He's had a few really hot streaks which is unusual for him this early and as usual his cold streaks are not that cold. When he gets hot in June his numbers will skyrocket.

ShoelessFred
05-19-2004, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I sure would like to know which other GM Kenny and Gammons think will take Konerko.

:dumbash
"Don't worry, I'm here for ya."

EDIT: Yes, I know he's no longer a GM.

WRONG! he'll only take PK if he's hurt and can't play anymore :D:

TaylorStSox
05-19-2004, 03:09 AM
I'm not getting into any of this speculation.... It's asinine IMO.

Anyway....

Regarding Graves, I don't care what his numbers are. Have any of you seen him in this season. He's really lost the movement on his breaking ball and has a drop in velocity. I'm more inclined to keep Koch and not give up anything for Graves. We have Graves, his name is Koch.

SoxxoS
05-19-2004, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
I'm not getting into any of this speculation.... It's asinine IMO.

Anyway....

Regarding Graves, I don't care what his numbers are. Have any of you seen him in this season. He's really lost the movement on his breaking ball and has a drop in velocity. I'm more inclined to keep Koch and not give up anything for Graves. We have Graves, his name is Koch.

I would like to get another opinion of Graves (not like I don't believe you TSS) but Graves has some solid numbers for losing velocity and his breaking ball.

I saw Looper in person last Wed. at the Diamondback game, and he was lights out. 95-96 consistantly.

Dan Gelo
05-19-2004, 04:01 AM
What about Randy Johnson? Reports say the Dbacks want to unload him for some younger talent. Borchard and Diaz maybe?
If we could get him for longer than this season(I don't know what his contract #'s are). Randy can still get it done....and would give us a win in the cross town series :) . Great dodge ball commercial too.

ode to veeck
05-19-2004, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
He's not dependable. He never won big games for us

Uh Batman, I'm not for moaning that he's gone either, but Barto was a stud pitcher for us last year, and was winning some tough gutsy games for us in Sept (when he was 4-2) when others were faltering.

Barto did drop that 3rd game of the sweep at the Twinkie Dome, but only got 3 runs of support that day. He did beat them earlier in the month at the Cell in a great game and also beat the YankMes in between. Prior to the 5-3 loss at Minn, he had given up only 10 runs total in his 5 previous starts and afterwards finished his season up with wins against Yanks and Royals. His only other loss in Sept was 2-1 against the WrongSox where he gave up only two runs in a complete game effort.

not dependable?, never won big games? I thunk you got da wrong guy here ... Barto's 4-2 with 30 something Ks at this point with da Halos, not a bad start , & wish he'da taken Kenny's offer, but we gott win with what we got & I'd hate to face Barto in the playoffs (even if the Sox are a fastball hitting club)

back to the regularly scheduled rumor mill drivel ...

JohnBasedowYoda
05-19-2004, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
WrongSox

That is the best nickname i have heard for them yet. suprisingly this is the 1st time i've heard of that.
But anyway......