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kittle42
05-17-2004, 06:28 PM
2B Uribe
CF Rowand
RF Ordonez
DH Thomas
LF Lee
SS Valentin
1B Konerko
3B Crede
C Olivo


Rowand sucks (yes, I know Cliff Lee is left-handed).

Valentin should never play vs. lefties. He should especially not bat sixth against them.

hold2dibber
05-17-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
2B Uribe
CF Rowand
RF Ordonez
DH Thomas
LF Lee
SS Valentin
1B Konerko
3B Crede
C Olivo


Rowand sucks (yes, I know Cliff Lee is left-handed).

Valentin should never play vs. lefties. He should especially not bat sixth against them.

Harris struggles against lefties, too. On balance, I suppose I'd rather see Valentin in there instead of Harris against a lefty but you can make a case either way.

A.T. Money
05-17-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
2B Uribe
CF Rowand
RF Ordonez
DH Thomas
LF Lee
SS Valentin
1B Konerko
3B Crede
C Olivo


Rowand sucks (yes, I know Cliff Lee is left-handed).

Valentin should never play vs. lefties. He should especially not bat sixth against them.

If not sixth, then where?

Would you rather see Valentin switch it up and go righty again?

SoxFan76
05-17-2004, 06:32 PM
Yeah, Willie vs. Jose against lefties is kind of a wash. Valentin better defensively, better baserunner, but Willie brings the speed and bunting ability. Neither can hit lefties, but Valentin has been known to hit a few out of the park in his career, something Willie can't say.

Nard
05-17-2004, 06:36 PM
Yeah Jose is a lot better defensively.

To the tune of a minimum of one error a game?

Dub25
05-17-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
Yeah, Willie vs. Jose against lefties is kind of a wash. Valentin better defensively, better baserunner, but Willie brings the speed and bunting ability. Neither can hit lefties, but Valentin has been known to hit a few out of the park in his career, something Willie can't say.

Better defensively??? Let me ponder that for a few moments.











No.

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Nard
Yeah Jose is a lot better defensively.

To the tune of a minimum of one error a game?

Jose is third in the majors in errors with 8, behind David Bell's 9 and Melvin Mora's 11

Of the SS's in the majors who have played at least 10 games at that position, Jose is 5th in Zone rating. The major league leader with more than 10 starts is Juan Uribe

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2004&seasonType=2&split=82&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=zoneRating&qualified=0

Dub25
05-17-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Jose is third in the majors in errors with 8, behind David Bell's 9 and Melvin Mora's 11

Of the SS's in the majors who have played at least 10 games at that position, Jose is 5th in Zone rating. The major league leader with more than 10 starts is Juan Uribe

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2004&seasonType=2&split=82&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=zoneRating&qualified=0

Would you still say Jose is better than Willie? On defense that is.

OurBitchinMinny
05-17-2004, 06:47 PM
I guess its ok to give harris the night off, but why play the minor leaguer rowand? I cant believe that jackass is still on the team. I dont care if its a lefty. Rowand better get at least 2 hits.

SoxFan76
05-17-2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Dub25
Better defensively??? Let me ponder that for a few moments.

No.


Uh, I would have to disagree. Errors are not always the best way to determine the skill of a player defensively. An agressive fielder is going to make errors. A passive fielder will not make errors, because they are not trying to go the extra mile to get an out. Did you watch Dransfeldt when he was up? He barely moved when he was at short, and it's hard to make errors when you don't touch the ball. Valentin is a better fielder until Willie proves differently. And it isn't a knock on Willie, he is pretty good with the glove as well. Not great, but good.

mcfish
05-17-2004, 07:10 PM
What's with Rowand batting second? I won't go so far as to say he shouldn't be on the team, but I don't see how he has proven himself to be able to hit second. That's a terrible place to put him, IMO. If not Valentin for some reason, why no try Lee at #2 again as so many here would love to see?

voodoochile
05-17-2004, 07:12 PM
Remember, the Chat Room (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/chat.php?setwidth=955&setheight=450) is open if it ever stops raining, please join us...

Foulke You
05-17-2004, 07:51 PM
Kind've off topic here but Dave Wills just gave a shout out during "rain delay theater" to whitesoxinteractive.com and recommended Lip's latest interview with Mike Veeck. Here's to you Willsy. :gulp:

jeremyb1
05-17-2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
I guess its ok to give harris the night off, but why play the minor leaguer rowand? I cant believe that jackass is still on the team. I dont care if its a lefty. Rowand better get at least 2 hits.

Hmm, maybe because Rowand absolutely murders left handed pitching? C'mon he was being platooned last season. This isn't rocket science.

Brian26
05-17-2004, 08:33 PM
Anyone here feel a little bit uncomfortable watching our best pitcher sliding around on the tarp during the rain delay? That arm is way too valuable to be screwing around!

JohnBasedowYoda
05-17-2004, 08:48 PM
thanks alot ESPN. YOU GUYS STINK :angry:

Viva Magglio
05-17-2004, 08:55 PM
Is is too early to start an...

*OFFICIAL* "Send Felix Diaz back to Charlotte!" Thread?

So far, it's just not working out. And I did suggest that he be called up to fill the fifth spot. Evidently, that was a mistake on my part.

HomeFish
05-17-2004, 08:55 PM
Here we go...back by 3 games again.

Viva Magglio
05-17-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Here we go...back by 3 games again.

Well, so much for yesterday's blowout win!

HebrewHammer
05-17-2004, 08:57 PM
Did I just turn on BP or is Felix Diaz awful? I've seen this guy twice and both times he'd gotten POUNDED, my favorite moment of the Felix Diaz era is THE END. It looks like its fifth starter roulette this year.

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by HomeFish
Here we go...back by 3 games again.

Wait, wait a second. We have 8 more innings of baseball left. I'm entirely sick of your pessimism. Why don't you go and raise the Twins 2004 AL Central champions banner already and go hang out with all the twins fans?

Viva Magglio
05-17-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Wait, wait a second. We have 8 more innings of baseball left. I'm entirely sick of your pessimism. Why don't you go and raise the Twins 2004 AL Central champions banner already and go hang out with all the twins fans?

Have you forgotten that we are White Sox fans? I don't disagree with you, but optimism is not a term in our fandom's dictionary.

Nard
05-17-2004, 09:03 PM
We have 8 innings left and the Jays have some solid opportunities with 3 innins left and Hudson, Delgado, and Catalalalalnntntniiisisto smacking some fire around.

We could be 1 or 2 or 3 behind. Jesus Christ.


On that note, Diaz is absolutely horrible. Let's get Rauch up here.

Viva Magglio
05-17-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Nard
...Diaz is absolutely horrible. Let's get Rauch up here.

I say make Cotts the Starter No. 5.

Viva Magglio
05-17-2004, 09:24 PM
Nice play, José!

Patrick134
05-17-2004, 09:25 PM
This was a bad spot for diaz, a majority of this lineup hit above .300 against righties.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:27 PM
Valentin is worthless.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:29 PM
Rowand is also worthless.

Kadafi311
05-17-2004, 09:30 PM
Still a lot of baseball left to play in this one.

Worst case, at least Toronto might give us a chance to stay 3 back.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:30 PM
The Sox are starting so many players who don't even deserve to be out there.

Irishsox1
05-17-2004, 09:33 PM
Is Diaz offically nicknamed the "Pinball Wizard", because this guy is getting lit up every inning. He should take his 14.00 era back to the minors and take Rowand with him.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:34 PM
Frank didn't get a single pitch to hit in that at-bat. I wonder why that could be.

:caballo

"Why are you looking at me?"

soxfan45
05-17-2004, 09:34 PM
Guys:
Valentine is really getting to me.
His fielding seems to be getting worse and
his batting average is just so mediocre. (he's
even no longer a switch hitter)

While the Twins continue to catch and throw
the ball, we keep giving Valentine opportunities
to be a starting shortstop on a major league
ballclub and he never gets any better.

This is such a characteristic of the White Sox.

Frustrating.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:35 PM
Good job, Carlos.

Kadafi311
05-17-2004, 09:35 PM
Valentine

Who?

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:41 PM
That's the third error of the game. This team is terrible defensively.

BTW, the Twins just scored on a home run by Jones.

HomeFish
05-17-2004, 09:41 PM
Twins have a runner on second. That game is over.

This is looking grim.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:43 PM
Someobody needs to scream at this team and break things once the game is over. I've had it with this crap. These guys are playing like an expansion team.

I just love how they pad their stats in one game, and then suck for three or four more.

Nard
05-17-2004, 09:44 PM
We have six innings left.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:45 PM
Valentin just struck out on a ball that was way off the plate. Good grief!

Nard
05-17-2004, 09:46 PM
Yeah Valentin has lost his pop in his ABs.

Except when he makes up for errors with HRs.

Still waiting...

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:48 PM
Crede just swung at a pitch out of the zone. Will somebody tell these guys that this isn't a home run derby?

Cubbiesuck13
05-17-2004, 09:50 PM
sigh.... i love the sox.... sigh

has anyone ever been in a dead end relationship? thats how i feel about the sox. they build me up to break me down.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:52 PM
(singing)

Why do you build me up (Pale Hose)
Build me up, baby, then you let me down
Mess me around...

RKMeibalane
05-17-2004, 09:53 PM
The Twins are crushing the Blue Jays. They've scored four runs in the ninth inning. I don't even think our guys know what the ninth inning is.

Cubbiesuck13
05-17-2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
(singing)

Why do you build me up (Pale Hose)
Build me up, baby, then you let me down
Mess me around...


that's what i was thinking of. i am so frustrated right now.

Nard
05-17-2004, 09:57 PM
Maybe Diaz can work for the Bobcats FO.

OEO Magglio
05-17-2004, 10:05 PM
How many popups can one team have?

balboner
05-17-2004, 10:06 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the Indians will finish with a better record than the Sox this year? If their bullpen wasnt doing so bad, they would be about 5 games ahead of the Sox right now. They have some real solid starting pitching to go along with some batters who DONT swing for the fences on every pitch.

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Am I the only one that thinks the Indians will finish with a better record than the Sox this year?

No, but I dont understand those people who are with you.

petekat
05-17-2004, 10:09 PM
ESPN sux ducks. Travelling on E. coast, psyched cuz the sox are on ESPN. ESPN switched to the Twins game during the rain delay, and now are not switching back. They are showing the conclusion of the Twinkie game then going straight to hockey !!!!

LASOXFAN
05-17-2004, 10:12 PM
I'm watching the game on the internet and believe me, you aren't missing anything. It's going to be a rain shortened loss. The sox are up to their old trix in May. Let's hope they don't get too far behind before they turn it around, because they will turn it around at some point. Hot and cold, hot and cold, never just consistent. These guys live by the long ball. What a shame.

Saracen
05-17-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by petekat
ESPN sux ducks. Travelling on E. coast, psyched cuz the sox are on ESPN. ESPN switched to the Twins game during the rain delay, and now are not switching back. They are showing the conclusion of the Twinkie game then going straight to hockey !!!!
They had to do it. Hockey playoffs are more important than a May baseball game. What did you want them to do, delay the hockey game for the Sox & Indians to finish?

Cubbiesuck13
05-17-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by petekat
ESPN sux ducks. Travelling on E. coast, psyched cuz the sox are on ESPN. ESPN switched to the Twins game during the rain delay, and now are not switching back. They are showing the conclusion of the Twinkie game then going straight to hockey !!!!


tell me about it, this is not the first time that they have shown a different game on the east coast when the sox were scheduled to be on. i don't know what the deal is but it is disheartening.

Nard
05-17-2004, 10:15 PM
Robbed by the rain again!!

SoxxoS
05-17-2004, 10:17 PM
I GOT IT:

We aren't a bad weather team!

That is why we suck so bad.

Lip Man 1
05-17-2004, 10:18 PM
A question and a few points.

Question: Dave Wills seems to know a lot about WSI, anybody know how to contact him? Perhaps he'd consent to an interview.

Few points: The over/ under of three runs for the Sox is looking solid right now (11 runs one game, 1 the next... business as usual)

If the Sox got a run scored for every pop up they'd average 12 a game.

Barring a miracle the Sox are going to fall to 1-5 in games begun by our 5th starter (if you can use that term to describe the pitchers in those spots.) but remember most other clubs don't have one either so that excuses the Sox for not getting one!

Lip

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 10:19 PM
This game is not official. Lets hope it cant get restarted

Brian26
05-17-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
This game is not official. Lets hope it cant get restarted

Bottom of 5th. I think it is official.

OEO Magglio
05-17-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
This game is not official. Lets hope it cant get restarted
It is official.

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
It is official.

Isn't it 5 full innings? Or is it because the Jndjans are winning that it's official?

WhiteSox = Life
05-17-2004, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Bottom of 5th. I think it is official.

Yep, when the home team is leading after 4˝, it is an official game. It's a full five when the home team is losing.

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Yep, when the home team is leading after 4˝, it is an official game. It's a full five when the home team is losing.

Well then.....
_*&(^()(*(^)+_*^&+()^$%^&*()++&*%#%$%(&^*()&^%$&%^&_*%$^&*(

Nard
05-17-2004, 10:29 PM
Any chance of it starting up again?

I was waiting for a PK grand slam right before the tarp myself.

OEO Magglio
05-17-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well then.....
_*&(^()(*(^)+_*^&+()^$%^&*()++&*%#%$%(&^*()&^%$&%^&_*%$^&*(
My thoughts exactly.

BearSox
05-17-2004, 10:33 PM
"Oh no...We suck again!"

ChiSox7
05-17-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by BearSox
"Oh no...We suck again!"http://joblo.nexcess.net/movienews/images2/newsschneider.jpg

What do you mean? When did we stop sucking? Just cause we scored a bunch in one day?

That was a death sentence. We won't score for another 4 or 5 days now.

WhiteSox = Life
05-17-2004, 10:39 PM
Watching FSN's great Rainy Night programming, I heard something funny, Googled it, and to help raise everyone's spirits (hopefully), may I present this link to you all.

Get Metsmerized (http://www.darrylstrawberry.org/lyrics2.html)

An example of the lyrics:

Dwight's my name, what can I say
you know they call me Doctor K
change up, fastball, slider and curve
step up to the plate if ya got the nerve.

With control and power of a diesel train
throwin' tombstone bullets and a ball'n'chain
Lenny D., your spirit's contagious
what ya do to your body is really outrageous

I'd give more, but these are just the tip of the iceberg. Enjoy the rest.

:smile:

Cubbiesuck13
05-17-2004, 10:40 PM
lets play manager. would you keep jose out of the games because of his defense, or would you keep him in for his bat, which is as hot as every one elses right now? i would put uribe at ss, harris at 2nd and keep jose as an expensive pinch hitter/ alternate ss.

Nard
05-17-2004, 10:44 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50133&item=4012492847&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The temptation...

BearSox
05-17-2004, 11:01 PM
Just curious... what months were Von Joshua and Gary Ward fired in, would it happen to be May by any chance????

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 11:04 PM
It's clear that the Sox are only able to hit in warm weather. The Solution: Move the Sox to Monterrey!

Lip Man 1
05-17-2004, 11:10 PM
It is 'funny' though that they have consistently had to battle lousy weather from the start of the home Yankees series. Man that's almost a month of rain, cold, wind and brutal weather. It is hard to get in a groove with that facing you everyday.

That being said the weather's bad in Boston, New York, Baltimore (5 rain outs already) and they seem to be winning.

Lip

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 11:12 PM
I really hate to use the Cubs success as an example, but I think I have to.

A week or so ago the Cubs were down 3 games to the Astros, who seemed nearly unstoppable and the Stros were heading into an easyish sked. The Cubs were only 3 games over .500. Cubs got on somewhat of a roll and the Astros lost some close games and it's a tie division one week later.

The Sox and Twins are the only two genuinely decent teams in this division and there's going to be a lot of give and take between the two teams. If we gain this game back in the next two days and take 3 in the Metrodome we're right back tied again. The Sox have to take those 4 in Minny very seriously though. No team is good enough to run away with this thing. It's really easy to get down on any team, but we were a few games under .500 in June last year and nobody hear would listen when I was saying that they would come back. They did come back however (though they didn't win).

And hey, if we're gonna be bad, can we at least joke about it a bit? Everyone's treating every game like it's the final week in september, yeesh.

Lip Man 1
05-17-2004, 11:19 PM
Karno:

Winning three out of four in Minnesota would go a very long way towards helping the Sox confidence against the Twins.

I honestly think it's becomming psychological. the Sox have seen Minnesota get so many 'fluky' hits, bloops, odd bounces (like that game with the Angels last season when the winning run scored on a ball that hit the catcher's shin guard and somehow rolled halfway down the first base line) that I think they are starting to expect something like that to happen.

I don't know the pitching rotations but it's not going to be easy to do that.

Lip

Cubbiesuck13
05-17-2004, 11:19 PM
white sox 2004- winning ugly, loosing ugly, playing ugly

has anyone done that yet?

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I don't know the pitching rotations but it's not going to be easy to do that.

Lip

If the two rotations hold:

Loaiza vs Greisinger
Buehrle vs Silva
Diaz vs Bradke
Garland vs Santana

But I dont know that Kenny Williams can in good faith Send Diaz out there again. I say that the Buehrle and Loaiza games are very winnable. The Santana Garland game is going to be interesting because both have been pitching pretty well lately. We're doomed in that Diaz game if that holds, but there's a decent chance that we could take 3. If we did, it would very easily turn around the Month of May and possibly the season, not that we're really that far down in the dumps anyways

OEO Magglio
05-17-2004, 11:35 PM
There is still hope....... Rick White is in. :D:
Ok it really doesn't matter who's pitching they just can't hit. :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry:

SoxxoS
05-17-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If the two rotations hold:

Loaiza vs Greisinger
Buehrle vs Silva
Diaz vs Bradke
Garland vs Santana

But I dont know that Kenny Williams can in good faith Send Diaz out there again. I say that the Buehrle and Loaiza games are very winnable. The Santana Garland game is going to be interesting because both have been pitching pretty well lately. We're doomed in that Diaz game if that holds, but there's a decent chance that we could take 3. If we did, it would very easily turn around the Month of May and possibly the season, not that we're really that far down in the dumps anyways

We WILL beat Seth Gresinger this time around. I doubt Diaz gets the start against Bradke. Look for Cotts to get thrown into the rotation, and bringing Wunsch up. That is my opinion. You can't just give away a game against the first place team, and that is essentially what you are doing if you trot Diaz up there.

MRKARNO
05-17-2004, 11:40 PM
And just like that it's 7-2 Cleveland

OEO Magglio
05-17-2004, 11:40 PM
Way to go Ross Gload.

SoxxoS
05-17-2004, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
Way to go Ross Gload.

Against righties...KW and Ozzie and JR are going to have to swallow that 8 million dollar contract and bench Konerko's ass. Seriously.

Win1ForMe
05-17-2004, 11:44 PM
I really hope Gload takes Konerko's spot against RHP, at least for the next few games.

Win1ForMe
05-17-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Against righties...KW and Ozzie and JR are going to have to swallow that 8 million dollar contract and bench Konerko's ass. Seriously.

Great minds think alike. :D:

OEO Magglio
05-17-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Great minds think alike. :D:
Unfortunately I don't think Mr. Reinsdorf would let that happen, but I really do love watching Ross hit.

The_Floridian
05-17-2004, 11:57 PM
Ugh...7-2 Bad Guys.

Get 'em tomorrow. Please.