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View Full Version : 1st Time Cell Visitor & His thoughts .....


Hangar18
05-17-2004, 10:10 AM
A co-worker of mine, who is from California, has heard me cheering and yelling and generally being a SOX fan the last few weeks. He has been in CHicago for a couple years and has
taken his 8 yr old son to Wrigley and Schaumburg Flyers games,
but never to the Cell. He hasnt seen the Cell since it opened
in 1991, and never been back, so I convinced him to bring his kid here yesterday. Immediately, it took us 28 minutes
just to buy a ticket, angering many in the line with us. Sloooooooooow and no explanation, except understaffed ticket booths. My Coworker was immediately (as was I) taken aback by the Ticket Prices. I forgot the SOX are charging MORE for weekend games. $$$$$$. Coworker loved the food here, but was very disheartened by the Price of Beer & Food here
(why are beer prices so high?) I told him how IVe cut back
on my beer consumption and generally DONT eat inside the park
as its gotten outrageously expensive (not like they spent $$$$$ on good players) They enjoyed themselves at the park, and liked the atmosphere, but unfortuneately, He mentioned that it would be "Hard" to come regularly because of prices.
Thats too bad. I had to agree with him. At least they are going to follow the SOX on a reg basis now ........

fledgedrallycap
05-17-2004, 10:19 AM
While I sympathize, the Cell is far more cost efficient than most MLB stadiums; especially the Urinal eight miles north.

greenpeach
05-17-2004, 11:09 AM
If he's going to compare concessions prices at The Cell with a minor league team like the Flyers of course it's going to seem expensive. I've got news for your co-worker, concession prices are expensive all over major league baseball. Lastly, I can't imagine the food is any cheaper on the north side.

CHISOXFAN13
05-17-2004, 11:13 AM
Schaumburg Flyers concessions aren't all that cheap.

And hell, while the ticklets are cheaper across the board, it isn't even Minor League baseball. I'd rather watch a competitive hs game than Independent League baseball.

patbooyah
05-17-2004, 11:14 AM
i could accept the prices if i felt the stadium was appropriately staffed. on saturday night i had to walk past a closed concession stand in the upper deck to get to an open one. then i had to wait 2.5 innings for a slice of pizza.

SSN721
05-17-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by greenpeach
If he's going to compare concessions prices at The Cell with a minor league team like the Flyers of course it's going to seem expensive. I've got news for your co-worker, concession prices are expensive all over major league baseball. Lastly, I can't imagine the food is any cheaper on the north side.

And it certainly isnt any better food up there.

Jerko
05-17-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by patbooyah
i could accept the prices if i felt the stadium was appropriately staffed. on saturday night i had to walk past a closed concession stand in the upper deck to get to an open one. then i had to wait 2.5 innings for a slice of pizza.

They are NEVER appropriately staffed, and the ones who ARE there spend the whole night wishing we would all go home. And for ANY stand to be closed on a Saturday with 32,000 fans there is inexcusable. Understaffed = cheap.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
While I sympathize, the Cell is far more cost efficient than most MLB stadiums; especially the Urinal eight miles north.

I live in Baltimore and go to Camden Yards frequently. It is far more cost efficient than the Cell. It is a far better ballpark experience than the Cell. And the Orioles payroll is a lot higher that the Sox payroll. And, for the past few years, they draw about the same fans as the Sox.

My point: there is no reason for the Sox not to be more cost efficient. The Urinal, Fenway, SBC (Pac Bell), Yankee Stadium, Safeco, etc., may all charge very high ticket and vendor prices, but they give fans a lot more. They give historic, unique, or fan-friendly ballparks, spend most of their revenues on payrolls, serve large geographic fan bases, and have superstar players that are admired and respected across the nation or throughout the world.

I love the Sox. I love the Cell. I love Frank, Maggs, E-LO, Crede, and the whole crew. I love Chicago, especially the south side. But the Sox do not offer much in return for the ticket prices. Their park is not unique, historic or particularly fan friendly. They don't reinvest into payroll. They don't have big names that people flock to see. They don't draw many fans outside Chicago or the suburbs. And they enjoy less than moderate baseball success.

Once the Sox, JR, KW, and Brooks Boyer realize and admit all this, maybe they will tweak the system, lower ticket prices, or give the fans more reasons to pay to come to the ball park.

Irishsox1
05-17-2004, 11:31 AM
I sat in the club level for the first time Friday and it's the first time I thought that the entire design of the stadium is flawed. The club level looks and feels like a private box, but you sit outside. They have "waiters" that bring you beer or food, the concourse is enclosed and carpeted and it looks really nice inside and the tickets are expensive. But then why are there an additional level of private boxes? The stadium should have never built that club level in addition to the row of private boxes. That pushes the upper deck even higher. However, the club level was great, no crowds, great view, bad Marte.

jabrch
05-17-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
Their park is not unique, historic or particularly fan friendly. They don't reinvest into payroll. They don't have big names that people flock to see. They don't draw many fans outside Chicago or the suburbs. And they enjoy less than moderate baseball success.

Once the Sox, JR, KW, and Brooks Boyer realize and admit all this, maybe they will tweak the system, lower ticket prices, or give the fans more reasons to pay to come to the ball park.


The park is very fan friendly. It is priced reasonably. Tickets are very reasonable, and concessions are not obscenely expensive compared to their quality. Ticket prices can't get much lower. $12 on weekdays and $18, I believe, on weekends. Get the Granton Marketing passes and your price goes down to $6 and $9 per ticket. How much cheaper can it get?

fledgedrallycap
05-17-2004, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by bigdommer
I live in Baltimore and go to Camden Yards frequently. It is far more cost efficient than the Cell. It is a far better ballpark experience than the Cell. And the Orioles payroll is a lot higher that the Sox payroll. And, for the past few years, they draw about the same fans as the Sox.

My point: there is no reason for the Sox not to be more cost efficient. The Urinal, Fenway, SBC (Pac Bell), Yankee Stadium, Safeco, etc., may all charge very high ticket and vendor prices, but they give fans a lot more. They give historic, unique, or fan-friendly ballparks, spend most of their revenues on payrolls, serve large geographic fan bases, and have superstar players that are admired and respected across the nation or throughout the world.

I love the Sox. I love the Cell. I love Frank, Maggs, E-LO, Crede, and the whole crew. I love Chicago, especially the south side. But the Sox do not offer much in return for the ticket prices. Their park is not unique, historic or particularly fan friendly. They don't reinvest into payroll. They don't have big names that people flock to see. They don't draw many fans outside Chicago or the suburbs. And they enjoy less than moderate baseball success.

Once the Sox, JR, KW, and Brooks Boyer realize and admit all this, maybe they will tweak the system, lower ticket prices, or give the fans more reasons to pay to come to the ball park.


I'm happy for Baltimore, but my point was Comiskular's comparison to a minor league facility, Wrigley and MOST other MLB stadiums. This is the third largest market in the country and the White Sox provide numerous options to accommodate the average fan (You can sit in the upper-tank for under ten bucks). You cannot be all things to all people. The Sox allow tailgating, thus lose concession business; therefore prices will increase. While it is expensive, I have been around enough to realize the Sox are not ripping anyone off (comparatively at least).

As for the White Sox not drawing from the suburbs, you haven’t been in a while have you? That has been the Sox’s primary audience thus abandoning the city dwellers. More than half of that stadium in filled with suburbanites.

In terms of fan friendly experience, what exactly are you looking for? Comiskey is easy to get to, great seating, large concourses, great food, competitive ball club….that’s enough reason for me to pay.

batmanZoSo
05-17-2004, 11:51 AM
Just quit going to the concession stands. Everything's expensive and cold. They don't keep anything warm, you'd think they would after charging triple. I might get a pretzel or a polish sausage if there's no line at the kart. But if there's a big line, forget it. You're so much better off going to mcdonald's before the game.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
I'm happy for Baltimore, but my point was Comiskular's comparison to a minor league facility, Wrigley and MOST other MLB stadiums. This is the third largest market in the country and the White Sox provide numerous options to accommodate the average fan (You can sit in the upper-tank for under ten bucks). You cannot be all things to all people. The Sox allow tailgating, thus lose concession business; therefore prices will increase. While it is expensive, I have been around enough to realize the Sox are not ripping anyone off (comparatively at least).

As for the White Sox not drawing from the suburbs, you haven’t been in a while have you? That has been the Sox’s primary audience thus abandoning the city dwellers. More than half of that stadium in filled with suburbanites.

In terms of fan friendly experience, what exactly are you looking for? Comiskey is easy to get to, great seating, large concourses, great food, competitive ball club….that’s enough reason for me to pay.

I wrote that the Sox fan base does not extend outside the city or the suburbs. You must have misinterpreted.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-17-2004, 11:55 AM
i frequent brewers game and the cell actually beats miller park in terms of food and beer prices (not to mention quality). However miller has a wider variety of ticket prices and are generally cheaper. Parking is also much cheaper ($5). The extra money to see my favorite team is worth it

Hangar18
05-17-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
I sat in the club level for the first time Friday and it's the first time I thought that the entire design of the stadium is flawed. The club level looks and feels like a private box, but you sit outside. They have "waiters" that bring you beer or food, the concourse is enclosed and carpeted and it looks really nice inside and the tickets are expensive. But then why are there an additional level of private boxes? The stadium should have never built that club level in addition to the row of private boxes. That pushes the upper deck even higher. However, the club level was great, no crowds, great view, bad Marte.

I think the CLUB level is a TERRIBLE waste of space. I dont see the reasoning for an ENTIRE DECK built for just 5 rows of seats.
THey blew it, shouldve been the NEW UPPER DECK

Blueprint1
05-17-2004, 12:04 PM
Go to a bar downtown and a beer sometimes costs you as much as it does at the Cell. You want high paid players but you want to complain that tickets cost too much. Have you been to a movie lately its about 10.00 per ticket. Food at a baseball game at any stadium is expensive. you complain too much Hanger.

fledgedrallycap
05-17-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
I wrote that the Sox fan base does not extend outside the city or the suburbs. You must have misinterpreted.

I did indeed, my mistake. However, I will say that targeting out-of-towners is not a real smart business move. It's difficult to market and as much as it bothers me, Wrigley's lore is too much at the moment to get those individuals to chose the Sox over the Cubs.

jabrch
05-17-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I think the CLUB level is a TERRIBLE waste of space. I dont see the reasoning for an ENTIRE DECK built for just 5 rows of seats.
THey blew it, shouldve been the NEW UPPER DECK

Hangar, how much space do you think it actually takes away? for the most part, the seats overhang anyhow. I think the clublevel seats are very nice. I have sat there a bunch and have no complaints. If the park was full, and we had an owner who reinvested more revenue into the team, those seats are a nice extra revnue stream that would really benefit the club.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
The park is very fan friendly. It is priced reasonably. Tickets are very reasonable, and concessions are not obscenely expensive compared to their quality. Ticket prices can't get much lower. $12 on weekdays and $18, I believe, on weekends. Get the Granton Marketing passes and your price goes down to $6 and $9 per ticket. How much cheaper can it get?

The cheapest ticket at the Cell, on the weekend, I think is 16 dollars. For the weekends, comparable tickets are: $9 in Baltimore, $5 in Cleveland, $5 in Houston, $5 in Texas, $8 in Cincy, and $5 in Atlanta. Even new ballparks, like Philly ($15) and San Diego ($8 to sit, $5 to stand) are cheaper.

All of these parks are about the same age as the Cell or younger. Most of them are parks, IMO, which are more enjoyable places to watch a game (I have only been to Camden, the Jake, Cincy, Houston, Philly, and Texas). Some teams are in first, but most are middle of the pack, like the Sox. Most have similar payrolls to the Sox, some of them higher payrolls. On the surface, they all look like small markets. But don't fool yourself that the Chicago market is bigger than all of these. The Chicago market is split in two. Their payroll is small, their attendance is down, and media coverage is skewed. The only part about them that is BIG market is "Chicago," that's it.

fledgedrallycap
05-17-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
The cheapest ticket at the Cell, on the weekend, I think is 16 dollars. For the weekends, comparable tickets are: $9 in Baltimore, $5 in Cleveland, $5 in Houston, $5 in Texas, $8 in Cincy, and $5 in Atlanta. Even new ballparks, like Philly ($15) and San Diego ($8 to sit, $5 to stand) are cheaper.

All of these parks are about the same age as the Cell or younger. Most of them are parks, IMO, which are more enjoyable places to watch a game (I have only been to Camden, the Jake, Cincy, Houston, Philly, and Texas). Some teams are in first, but most are middle of the pack, like the Sox. Most have similar payrolls to the Sox, some of them higher payrolls. On the surface, they all look like small markets. But don't fool yourself that the Chicago market is bigger than all of these. The Chicago market is split in two. Their payroll is small, their attendance is down, and media coverage is skewed. The only part about them that is BIG market is "Chicago," that's it.

One thing you are fogetting, ALL of those teams dream of a TV/Radio contract which the White Sox hold. So the market does in fact matter. The greater Chicagoland area is somewhere close to ten million (somewhere in that range). Split that in half and you have yourself a market that is still bigger than most of those towns. In addition, the Cub fans do attend Comiskey and our tourism (while nothing like the Cubs) still exceeds most cities.

Cellview22
05-17-2004, 12:23 PM
You can actually buy $5 tickets (including weekends) at the GABP in Cincy if it's purchased on game day. And you can park for free right across the river, and just take the short stroll back across the bridge.

If I could get tickets this cheap for the Cell, I'd be there all the time, and the UD would be packed all the time too.

It's too bad that the UD is still not up to par with the rest of the stadium. I sat up there once this year, and the only improvement is the flat roof and the screens behind the last row. It still seems just as high on that last row, but at least you can turn around in your seat and see the skyline..pretty cool..even though the screen is not perfectly transparent. My cousin also had a bad experience at the concession stands; apparently the staff was extremely rude, and one of the ladies behind the desk cracked a joke that he "looks so scared" and even went so far as to shout to her coworkers "look at this guy, doesn't he look scared to death". My cousin has a unique facial feature so that's why they probably said that. Needless to say, he wasn't too happy about it. Not a good experience for him, unfortunately!

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
One thing you are fogetting, ALL of those teams dream of a TV/Radio contract which the White Sox hold. So the market does in fact matter. The greater Chicagoland area is somewhere close to ten million (somewhere in that range). Split that in half and you have yourself a market that is still bigger than most of those towns. In addition, the Cub fans do attend Comiskey and our tourism (while nothing like the Cubs) still exceeds most cities.

As of the 2000 census, greater Chicago was 9.2 million. Split in half, it is 4.6 million. DC/Baltimore was 7.6 mill, Philly 6.2 mill, Houston 4.7 mill, Dallas 5.2 mill, Atlanta 4.1 mill. So, for the most part, all of those markets can "dream" of equaling the White Sox markets. Also, teams like Texas, Houston, Philly, and Baltimore have some of their minor league teams located in their home state, so markets across the state will pick up the big leagues TV deal to accomodate the minor league fans who have a contiuning interest in the big league club.

fledgedrallycap
05-17-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
As of the 2000 census, greater Chicago was 9.2 million. Split in half, it is 4.6 million. DC/Baltimore was 7.6 mill, Philly 6.2 mill, Houston 4.7 mill, Dallas 5.2 mill, Atlanta 4.1 mill. So, for the most part, all of those markets can "dream" of equaling the White Sox markets. Also, teams like Texas, Houston, Philly, and Baltimore have some of their minor league teams located in their home state, so markets across the state will pick up the big leagues TV deal to accomodate the minor league fans who have a contiuning interest in the big league club.

Not to beat a dead-horse because I just don't believe arguing over a few bucks, but here are the media contracts from year 2000; with average audience - I would say some of those teams are definitely dreaming, my friend:

Money Population
Chicago White Sox 30,092,000 4,578,770 6.55 53/99
Cleveland Indians 21,076,000 2,945,831 7.15 75/75
Baltimore Orioles 20,994,000 7,608,070 2.76 65/85
Atlanta Braves 19,988,000 4,112,198 4.86 90/59
Detroit Tigers 19,073,000 5,456,428 3.5 40/100
Philadelphia Phillies 18,940,000 6,188,463 3.06 45/113
Houston Astros 13,722,000 4,669,571 2.94 62/75

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
I did indeed, my mistake. However, I will say that targeting out-of-towners is not a real smart business move. It's difficult to market and as much as it bothers me, Wrigley's lore is too much at the moment to get those individuals to chose the Sox over the Cubs.

I agree with you. It is impossible to create an out of town market. Teams like the Cubs and Braves will always have an out of town fan base because of WGN and TBS, the Yankees and Red Sox will always attract fans because of who they are, and Seattle will always be popular in Japan as long as Ichiro is there. Unless the Sox broadcast nationally or import masses of foreign players, it would be foolish to expand.

SOXintheBURGH
05-17-2004, 01:07 PM
This is my first time posting and I can tell you that I don't remember how much the Cell costs since I haven't been to a game there since the 2000 season as I have relocated to Pittsburgh. I still follow the Sox religiously but have become a big Pirates fan over the years and get to PNC Park whenever I can (especially when the Scrubs play so I can enjoy their losses in person). I can tell you about PNC Park is that it is easily the best baseball park I have ever been too in so many ways. Not a bad seat in the entire park, not hard to get to or park at. Walking up for seats is really quick and inexpensive for general admission seats or you can get something from a scalper real cheap and below face. I'm not sure about Comiskey, but beer is generally $5.75 for a 16ozer, $4.50 for a 12ozer. Food is about average to what I remember at the Cell.. Nachos were around $5 and pretzels were roughly 4. Although, sadly, no Churros here in the 'Burgh. I recommend if anyone ever has an excuse to go to Pittsburgh (which is highly unlikel!!!) they should come to PNC Park, I'll even buy you a Penn Pilsner (look for me in my Clemente jersey). :gulp:

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
Not to beat a dead-horse because I just don't believe arguing over a few bucks, but here are the media contracts from year 2000; with average audience - I would say some of those teams are definitely dreaming, my friend:

Money Population
Chicago White Sox 30,092,000 4,578,770 6.55 53/99
Cleveland Indians 21,076,000 2,945,831 7.15 75/75
Baltimore Orioles 20,994,000 7,608,070 2.76 65/85
Atlanta Braves 19,988,000 4,112,198 4.86 90/59
Detroit Tigers 19,073,000 5,456,428 3.5 40/100
Philadelphia Phillies 18,940,000 6,188,463 3.06 45/113
Houston Astros 13,722,000 4,669,571 2.94 62/75

I am not sure what you are saying. So, because the White Sox make more on their TV deal, they should charge more money for tickets? Or because they make more money on their TV deal, they can afford to have poor attendance outputs? Either way, if I was in charge, I would like to get butts in the seats.

DaveIsHere
05-17-2004, 01:12 PM
wow, everyone is still complaining and making excuses not to go to a game, that's unusual

White_Sock
05-17-2004, 01:14 PM
Just out of curiosity, what do they charge for a beer at the Cell lately? In Oakland it's $7.50-$9.00. Is This pretty much standard league-wide?

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by DaveIsHere
wow, everyone is still complaining and making excuses not to go to a game, that's unusual

I love to go to games. Every time I come back into town I go to games. It is hard to go to the Cell on a consistant basis while on a limited budget. Other teams seem to have given their fans more options.

I went to all 3 games in Baltimore a couple weeks ago. I paid about 25 bucks TOTAL. Parked on the street, and brought dogs, peanuts, and cokes right into the park. They encourage you to bring your own stuff in. I tried to take a bottle of water into the Cell last year on a hot summer night. Not only was my bottle confiscated, but I was searched by three security guards. They were patting down my legs.

woodenleg
05-17-2004, 01:21 PM
Chicago is one of the most expensive cities in the US - what do people expect?

markp8867
05-17-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
The park is very fan friendly. It is priced reasonably. Tickets are very reasonable, and concessions are not obscenely expensive compared to their quality. Ticket prices can't get much lower. $12 on weekdays and $18, I believe, on weekends. Get the Granton Marketing passes and your price goes down to $6 and $9 per ticket. How much cheaper can it get?

[B]Exactly! Add to that TWO half-price nights every week, Kids day Sundays throughout the year where kids get in for $1, and Dollar Dog Thursdays...how could you possibly complain about prices? They are very reasonable and much cheaper than those at Wrigley. The concessions are better and if you want to park across the street from "The Gum" then it will cost you at least twice as much.

Hangar18
05-17-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Blueprint1
Go to a bar downtown and a beer sometimes costs you as much as it does at the Cell. You want high paid players but you want to complain that tickets cost too much. Have you been to a movie lately its about 10.00 per ticket. Food at a baseball game at any stadium is expensive. you complain too much Hanger.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm, I gave you a Bystanders viewpoint. He said truthfully, he liked the experience, but found it too pricey.
I always thought things were getting too Pricey. Small Market Thinking at Big Market Prices.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by markp8867
[B]Exactly! Add to that TWO half-price nights every week, Kids day Sundays throughout the year where kids get in for $1, and Dollar Dog Thursdays...how could you possibly complain about prices? They are very reasonable and much cheaper than those at Wrigley. The concessions are better and if you want to park across the street from "The Gum" then it will cost you at least twice as much.

For people who work a lot, the easiest time to get to the ballpark are Friday nights and Saturdays. There is no cheap alternative at Cell for these games, yet 20,000 or so seats ususally go empty.

A good solution: the Padres sell a Park Pass for $5. The park pass gains entry into the park and nothing else. No seat, just standing room. This would allow people to go to the bullpen bar/restaurant without having to buy a seat for the game. Or they could just hang around the concourse. I don't know. Maybe people would go even if they were running late and were worried about spending a lot of money on a seat. Maybe a bunch of buddies would get together, drink some beers, and stand and watch the game. This might be a good idea.

Actually, this would force the Sox to spend money on security. Not going to happen.

pinwheels3530
05-17-2004, 02:09 PM
Sox fans still whinning :whiner:

rahulsekhar
05-17-2004, 02:15 PM
So if I understand correctly, what the Sox should do is have deeply discounted seats, food & drink pricing similar to that of the local 7-11 rather than merely below average for a sporting event, and free parking.

Oh yeah, and while doing this they should ADD payroll so that fans feel like "they're trying to compete".

Sheesh.

anewman35
05-17-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
So if I understand correctly, what the Sox should do is have deeply discounted seats, food & drink pricing similar to that of the local 7-11 rather than merely below average for a sporting event, and free parking.

Oh yeah, and while doing this they should ADD payroll so that fans feel like "they're trying to compete".

Sheesh.

That's right! It's not our money, so go for it! JR is making billions on this team, he can afford it!

dllrbll7
05-17-2004, 02:23 PM
Do you guys think dollar hot dogs are too expensive too?

Stop your complaining, we live in chicago its goin to be expensive. They have listened and done as much as they could to all of our demands to the ballpark with more to come. They have multiple options to save fans money whether its the Sox9, Granton Package, or half price nights. With those combined i will probably go to 20+ games and only pay full price for 4 of them(opening day and scrubs). Take advantage of what they offer and stop complaining.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-17-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by dllrbll7
Do you guys think dollar hot dogs are too expensive too?

Stop your complaining, we live in chicago its goin to be expensive. They have listened and done as much as they could to all of our demands to the ballpark with more to come. They have multiple options to save fans money whether its the Sox9, Granton Package, or half price nights. With those combined i will probably go to 20+ games and only pay full price for 4 of them(opening day and scrubs). Take advantage of what they offer and stop complaining.

what he said

iwannago
05-17-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
I live in Baltimore and go to Camden Yards frequently. It is far more cost efficient than the Cell. It is a far better ballpark experience than the Cell. And the Orioles payroll is a lot higher that the Sox payroll. And, for the past few years, they draw about the same fans as the Sox.

My point: there is no reason for the Sox not to be more cost efficient. The Urinal, Fenway, SBC (Pac Bell), Yankee Stadium, Safeco, etc., may all charge very high ticket and vendor prices, but they give fans a lot more. They give historic, unique, or fan-friendly ballparks, spend most of their revenues on payrolls, serve large geographic fan bases, and have superstar players that are admired and respected across the nation or throughout the world.

I love the Sox. I love the Cell. I love Frank, Maggs, E-LO, Crede, and the whole crew. I love Chicago, especially the south side. But the Sox do not offer much in return for the ticket prices. Their park is not unique, historic or particularly fan friendly. They don't reinvest into payroll. They don't have big names that people flock to see. They don't draw many fans outside Chicago or the suburbs. And they enjoy less than moderate baseball success.

Once the Sox, JR, KW, and Brooks Boyer realize and admit all this, maybe they will tweak the system, lower ticket prices, or give the fans more reasons to pay to come to the ball park.

I go to Camden about 5 times a year. Parking is $15, Good seats are $55 and beer is $6. They have no organist, no exploding scoreboard, but they do have a bird running around. I don't see why Camden is so much better other than the restaurants outside the park and I95 is not as bad as the Dan Ryan.

In my opinion the Ballpark at Arlington is the best.

BigFrankFan
05-17-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
I live in Baltimore and go to Camden Yards frequently. It is far more cost efficient than the Cell. It is a far better ballpark experience than the Cell. And the Orioles payroll is a lot higher that the Sox payroll. And, for the past few years, they draw about the same fans as the Sox.


I'm glad you weighed in on this thread because it just seems that most fans think that the only comparison in Chicago is the cub. Just because the cub prices are more than the SOX doesn't mean that the SOX prices are competitive. That's the gist of what many of us have said. In terms of revenue (Forbes ref) the SOX will be the highest revenue team in the ALC. This despite being one of the last in attendance. What this means is that the marketplace is keeping the SOX in the top 15 in revenue each & every year.

I don't necc have a problem with the pricing. After all if you can consisently year after year get 1.7 MIL fans to frequent the ball park at that price & it consistently ranks you in the better 1/2 in revenue well that's capitalism at it's best. My problem is that attendance numbers are everything in terms of perception in the league. I will never forget the year some in the media & on sports boards were suggesting contraction of the SOX after a year in which they ranked 13TH in total revenue! That's the power of perception!

The only way to break that perception is to keep the prices where they are but then offer promotions to increase attendance without really affecting the 1.7 MIL base. Consider for instance the high speed internet sector. Most of that base comes from 1 of the various season ticket pkgs. So as long as you keep the promotions along the walk up & single game purchases it should not affect the 1.7 MIL base. That's where the SOX should be spending their marketing budget. They know in advance how many tickets have been sold through the pkgs for each series. So they should use coupons or something like it on the net & in the local papers to encourage walk up sales for the days where they know they haven't even sold 50% of the tickets.

That's my biggest gripe about SOX mgmt over the years. That don't seem to understand the big picture in revenue. Because of the non-ticket prices assoc with attendance a gain of just a few 1000 on avg can reap many millions in rev for the year. Coupons & special promotions for low turnout series should be able to get them that.

Add 10 million more to the payroll & we still have Everett in CF & Gordon in the pen. What's the SOX record then?

pinwheels3530
05-17-2004, 02:41 PM
To ALL whining sox fans I manage a movie theater we have high concessions prices a bottle a water cost 3.50 same as sox game small popcorn 3.00, small drink 3.00. It's always going to be expensive. This is where business that serve food make their money. Ticket prices are going to be going up to watch a movie too, gas prices are going up, a gallon a milk etc.. look out of all the 5 major sports teams in Chicago the sox are the cheapest in ticket pricing and have been the most competitive. So go when you can, spend what you can, but Hanger and everyone else STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE UPPER DECK!

DaveIsHere
05-17-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
To ALL whining sox fans I manage a movie theater we have high concessions prices a bottle a water cost 3.50 same as sox game small popcorn 3.00, small drink 3.00. It's always going to be expensive. This is where business that serve food make their money. Ticket prices are going to be going up to watch a movie too, gas prices are going up, a gallon a milk etc.. look out of all the 5 major sports teams in Chicago the sox are the cheapest in ticket pricing and have been the most competitive. So go when you can, spend what you can, but Hanger and everyone else STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE UPPER DECK!


Thank YOU!!!!!

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
I go to Camden about 5 times a year. Parking is $15, Good seats are $55 and beer is $6. They have no organist, no exploding scoreboard, but they do have a bird running around. I don't see why Camden is so much better other than the restaurants outside the park and I95 is not as bad as the Dan Ryan.

In my opinion the Ballpark at Arlington is the best.

Wow, you overpaid. There's not a bad seat in that park. It's even enjoyable to stand on the right field wall the whole game. I love the Sox and I would rather go to the Cell to watch the Sox than go anywhere else. (Actually, I would rather play at the Cell, where I have played twice.) However, I have to admit that Camden is a lot nicer ballpark, with a lot better atmosphere, at better prices.

rahulsekhar
05-17-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer


Their park is not unique, historic or particularly fan friendly. They don't reinvest into payroll. They don't have big names that people flock to see.

USCF not fan friendly? What exactly does it take to be fan friendly? Good sight lines? Comfortable seats? Great concessions at average or below average stadium prices? Cleanliness? Comfortable atmosphere for families?.......Nope, guess not, because we've got all of those.

As for reinvesting in payroll, another thread had a listing of attendance and payroll for the past 10 years or so. There's a pretty strong correlation between attendance and the following year's payroll. Attendance declines, so does payroll. Attendance increases, so does payroll.

And as for big names, if Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez aren't known names, then the people you're asking aren't baseball fans. How anyone would say Javy Lopez & Miguel Tejada are "big names" but Frank & Maggs aren't is beyond me. The only thing that makes Javy & Miggie "names" is that they were FAs this year so their signings were in the papers.

iwannago
05-17-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
Wow, you overpaid. There's not a bad seat in that park. It's even enjoyable to stand on the right field wall the whole game. I love the Sox and I would rather go to the Cell to watch the Sox than go anywhere else. (Actually, I would rather play at the Cell, where I have played twice.) However, I have to admit that Camden is a lot nicer ballpark, with a lot better atmosphere, at better prices.

No that's the going price. Its cheap to stand in RF at any ball park, even the Cell. I don't think Eutaw St. is that great. I rank that about the same as the picnic area at old Comiskey.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
USCF not fan friendly? What exactly does it take to be fan friendly? Good sight lines? Comfortable seats? Great concessions at average or below average stadium prices? Cleanliness? Comfortable atmosphere for families?.......Nope, guess not, because we've got all of those.

As for reinvesting in payroll, another thread had a listing of attendance and payroll for the past 10 years or so. There's a pretty strong correlation between attendance and the following year's payroll. Attendance declines, so does payroll. Attendance increases, so does payroll.

And as for big names, if Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez aren't known names, then the people you're asking aren't baseball fans. How anyone would say Javy Lopez & Miguel Tejada are "big names" but Frank & Maggs aren't is beyond me. The only thing that makes Javy & Miggie "names" is that they were FAs this year so their signings were in the papers.

Frank and Maggs are known names. My original response was to a question of other expensive ballparks and cost efficiency, specifically Wrigley, Yankee Stad, Fenway, PacBell, and Safeco. Whether you like it or not, most fans go to the park to watch the big names, like Sosa, A-Rod, Jeter, Pedro, Nomar, Manny, Bonds, and Ichiro. The point is that those high priced ballparks can afford to charge high prices because they have marketable athletes on the field. Sure, the Cubs, Yanks, and Red Sox are having good years, but the Giants and Mariners struggle and still draw because of guys like Bonds and Ichiro.

When I brought up Baltimore and teams with similar payrolls and parks and success to the Sox, I was merely noting how they have extended a much cheaper way for the average fan to stop by the ballpark. Baltimore had been struggling, so they invested in signing some free agents, even though they didn't have the money. And I am not blaming KW, because there was no one out there that the Sox needed for the price they were asking.

The whole point is that you get what you pay for. And in the case of the Sox compared to other similar franchises, I am not sure that the average fan gets what they pay for, comparatively.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
No that's the going price. Its cheap to stand in RF at any ball park, even the Cell. I don't think Eutaw St. is that great. I rank that about the same as the picnic area at old Comiskey.

I guess I am just lucky. On a Friday night, it is half as much to stand at Camden than at the Cell. I don't have a problem with the upper deck at the Cell, I like it up there. Nevertheless, I would rather stand on Eutaw than sit in the UD at the Cell.

iwannago
05-17-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
I guess I am just lucky. On a Friday night, it is half as much to stand at Camden than at the Cell. I don't have a problem with the upper deck at the Cell, I like it up there. Nevertheless, I would rather stand on Eutaw than sit in the UD at the Cell.

I guess you are. To each their own.

mweflen
05-17-2004, 03:29 PM
There are not two half price nights every week. there are only 4 monday home games on the schedule. So essentially, there is one half price night every week, weighed against 3 extra-price nights.

It's obvious that ticket prices are too high - especially on weekends. You only have to look at an expanse of blue seats to come to this conclusion.

Supply and demand, pure and simple. Until demand increases, you lower your price to lure people into the park. Someone sitting in a half priced seat nets the club a lot more money than an empty blue seat. Empty seats don't buy hot dogs.

The Sox would make a lot more money filling upper deck seats for $5 on weekends instead of charging $16 and having them go empty.

anewman35
05-17-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
The Sox would make a lot more money filling upper deck seats for $5 on weekends instead of charging $16 and having them go empty.

I really don't know if that's true. First off, for a decent amount of games, you'd probably be selling at least 10,000 seats for $11 cheaper. Sure, some people might buy food and stuff, but you'd have to sell a LOT of hot dogs to break even. You'd have to hire more workers in the upper deck, which would probably eat up any profit right there. It would get the attendence numbers up, sure, but I don't think it would do much for the bottom line.

rahulsekhar
05-17-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by mweflen
There are not two half price nights every week. there are only 4 monday home games on the schedule. So essentially, there is one half price night every week, weighed against 3 extra-price nights.

It's obvious that ticket prices are too high - especially on weekends. You only have to look at an expanse of blue seats to come to this conclusion.

Supply and demand, pure and simple. Until demand increases, you lower your price to lure people into the park. Someone sitting in a half priced seat nets the club a lot more money than an empty blue seat. Empty seats don't buy hot dogs.

The Sox would make a lot more money filling upper deck seats for $5 on weekends instead of charging $16 and having them go empty.

Actually, by dropping price $11, you actually need to more than triple UD attendance to break even. Because for every extra $5 you gain from an additional fan, you lost $11 from the ones that were buying the $16 tix anyway. (OK - factor in some concessions sales, but the concept remains the same).

Now if you think the demand is elastic enough that you would more than triple the attendance, then it's a good move, but IMO they likely have thought through that scenario. It's basic business economics and they're not stupid.

SOXintheBURGH
05-17-2004, 03:39 PM
As I mentioned earlier at PNC, last game I went to was an early Sunday game on Mother's Day against the Dodgers.. $5 for parking, $27 for behind the plate seats just out of tv range so there weren't any cell phone happy fans.. I could see Robin Ventura's arm hairs the seats were so good. Beer and food is about moderate, and The Pirates don't have a single big name player on their roster and they draw just as poorly as the Sox. People compare PNC to Camden often, and it looks like its a lot cheaper and easier to get to traffic wise.

jabrch
05-17-2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
For people who work a lot, the easiest time to get to the ballpark are Friday nights and Saturdays. There is no cheap alternative at Cell for these games, yet 20,000 or so seats ususally go empty.


Buy the Granton Marketing coupons. Suddenly you can get a seat for $8.00 on Fri-Sun in addition to 4 free tickets.


A good solution: the Padres sell a Park Pass for $5. The park pass gains entry into the park and nothing else. No seat, just standing room. This would allow people to go to the bullpen bar/restaurant without having to buy a seat for the game. Or they could just hang around the concourse. I don't know. Maybe people would go even if they were running late and were worried about spending a lot of money on a seat. Maybe a bunch of buddies would get together, drink some beers, and stand and watch the game. This might be a good idea.

Actually, this would force the Sox to spend money on security. Not going to happen.

No thanks - If they don't want to let UD ticketholders in the concourse, i am sure they won't want to let $5.00 people in there. Right now, you can get tickets for $12 on weekdays and $16 on weekends even if you pay full price (1/2 of that if you call Granton). I just don't see any arguement that ticket prices are too high and that lowering them would lead to any significant increase in fanbase, attendance, or net revenues. Sorry - I don't but it.

bobj4400
05-17-2004, 03:54 PM
We live in Chicago. Things are expensive. That's life.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
We live in Chicago. Things are expensive. That's life.

Every city is expensive.

bobj4400
05-17-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
Every city is expensive.

Not saying they arent. Just sick of everyone bitching about ticket prices.

markp8867
05-17-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
For people who work a lot, the easiest time to get to the ballpark are Friday nights and Saturdays. There is no cheap alternative at Cell for these games, yet 20,000 or so seats ususally go empty.

I don't think so. "For people who work a lot" what does that mean? So the fans that go to all the other games obviously must not "work a lot". Give me a break! You can't go on Sunday when it is Kids Day or buy a ticket package and get a discount on that? Those are just excuses (and really lame ones) if you ask me.

A good solution: the Padres sell a Park Pass for $5. The park pass gains entry into the park and nothing else. No seat, just standing room. This would allow people to go to the bullpen bar/restaurant without having to buy a seat for the game. Or they could just hang around the concourse.

Umm...not a good idea at all. I'm sure all of those people with a park pass will never move into a seat they didn't pay for LOL. If $5 is all someone can afford for a ticket maybe they should just give up on going to baseball games...even Kane County Cougars tickets cost more than that!

pinwheels3530
05-17-2004, 04:46 PM
SEE WHAT YOU STARTED HANGAR ANOTHER NEGATIVE SOX THREAD!!

iwannago
05-17-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by bigdommer
Every city is expensive.

Not true, Compare New York, Boston and Baltimore to Minneapolis, Dallas and Indianapolis. The later are discount cities.

bobj4400
05-17-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Not true, Compare New York, Boston and Baltimore to Minneapolis, Dallas and Indianapolis. The later are discount cities.

You cant compare three of the biggest cities/metro areas in the country with three towns. No offense to Dallas, Indy, and Minny, but that just isnt a realistic comparison.

TornLabrum
05-17-2004, 07:36 PM
For those who say that attending a Sox game is expensive, here are ticket prices at The Shrine:

2004 Ticket Prices


Section Name Value Dates Price Regular Dates Price Prime Dates Price
Club Box (Infield Box) $23.00 $40.00 $50.00
Club Box (Outfield Box) $18.00 $36.00 $44.00
Field Box (Infield Box) $18.00 $36.00 $44.00
Field Box (Outfield Box) $16.00 $32.00 $40.00
Terrace Box $14.00 $28.00 $36.00
Upper Deck Box $14.00 $28.00 $36.00
Terrace Reserved $10.00 $20.00 $26.00
Upper Deck Reserved $6.00 $14.00 $17.00
Bleachers $15.00 $26.00 $35.00

By comparison, here are the prices at The Cell:


2004 Prices

NDIVIDUAL
WEEKDAY INDIVIDUAL
WEEKEND

Premium Club Box $41 $45
Club Box $39 $43
Premium Lower Box Available for full-season ticket plans only
Lower Box $28 $32
Lower Reserved $24 $28
Bleachers $22 $26
Premium Upper Box $18 $22
Upper Box $16 $20
Upper Reserved $12 $16
Add $5 to ticket prices listed above for June 25-27 games.

In addition to park your car at Wrigley in somebody's lot or garage is going to cost you a minimum of $25.00 while it's $16.00 at The Cell.

Yeah, the Sox ARE expensive compared to the Flyers.

jackbrohamer
05-17-2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
For those who say that attending a Sox game is expensive, here are ticket prices at The Shrine:

The Flubbies' "value dates" are basically a sham, when they announced that category they listed like 3 or 4 games the entire year, all weekdays in April or May.

dickallen15
05-17-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Ummmmmmmmmmmm, I gave you a Bystanders viewpoint. He said truthfully, he liked the experience, but found it too pricey.
I always thought things were getting too Pricey. Small Market Thinking at Big Market Prices.

Isn't it finding the experience too pricey, (it appears it is no more pricey than a Cubs, Bulls or Blackhawks game) part of the problem. It seems White Sox management is not the only ones with a "small market mentality". A big proportion of the fan base has adopted it as well. I do think the service at the concession stands at USCF leaves a lot to be desired, but food and drink have always been obnoxiously priced at a major league park.

thepaulbowski
05-18-2004, 08:48 AM
After reading this thread, I have one thing to say:

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: