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View Full Version : Wrong players for Ozzie's philosophy


ChiSoxTony
05-16-2004, 09:35 AM
Ozzie wants to play baseball not softball. He needs players who fit his philosophy. We need a leadoff hitter who can bunt. We need hitters who go to the opposite field and not swing for the fences and try to pull everything. This team needs speed. We currently have three DH's in our lineup, Frank, Konerko, and Lee. Only one is needed the rest can go.

If you want to blame Ozzie for leaving Uribe out of the lineup, I agree, but we cant blame him for hitters poping up with 3-0 count, or swinging at the first pitch, or trying to pull pitches on the outside part of the plate. Last time I checked Ozzie wasnt at the plate.

We need to get rid of Konerko and Lee, and replace them with singles hitters. Actually, I would deal anybody on the team with the exception of Olivo and Uribe. They are all fair game.

owensmouth
05-16-2004, 09:41 AM
And get rid of Magglio. No one is worth 14 million, at least not on this team.

iwannago
05-16-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by owensmouth
And get rid of Magglio. No one is worth 14 million, at least not on this team.

Are you sure you would want to do that?

jabrch
05-16-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
Are you sure you would want to do that?

It would depend on what we were getting in return for him. I am sure nobody wants to just give him away, but at the same time, there is nothing wrong with trying to get a great deal for him.

HomeFish
05-16-2004, 03:29 PM
We had a team like that in early April. They even had the same names.

I wonder what happened.

Frater Perdurabo
05-16-2004, 03:58 PM
I don't think anyone on this team is "untouchable" in the sense that I think that for the right deal, every player is "available" if another team is willing to blow us away with an offer.

That being said, this team doesn't need an overhaul, but it does need a face-lift and to re-load with balance in mind. It is too right-handed, too slow and too dependent on the home run. One of the four right-handed power hitters needs to go. IMHO Frank and Maggs should NOT be the ones to go. But either Lee or Konerko should be dealt for pitching. Reed should be promoted for some OBP and left-handed hitting.

34 Inch Stick
05-17-2004, 08:51 AM
Same thing was said of Manuel last year. Ozzie said those who didn't play his style would not be on the field.

The players have to produce, but this has been a bad week of managing from Ozzie.

Randar68
05-17-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by ChiSoxTony
Ozzie wants to play baseball not softball. He needs players who fit his philosophy. We need a leadoff hitter who can bunt. We need hitters who go to the opposite field and not swing for the fences and try to pull everything. This team needs speed. We currently have three DH's in our lineup, Frank, Konerko, and Lee. Only one is needed the rest can go.

If you want to blame Ozzie for leaving Uribe out of the lineup, I agree, but we cant blame him for hitters poping up with 3-0 count, or swinging at the first pitch, or trying to pull pitches on the outside part of the plate. Last time I checked Ozzie wasnt at the plate.

We need to get rid of Konerko and Lee, and replace them with singles hitters. Actually, I would deal anybody on the team with the exception of Olivo and Uribe. They are all fair game.


This was my (and others') biggest concern when they announced Ozzie and he showed up at the press conference wanting to play little-ball. This is a 16" softball team. You can't turn a bunch of beer-leaguers into track stars.

Uribe, Olivo and Harris are about the only ones capable.

Irishsox1
05-17-2004, 10:33 AM
Konerko is not an Ozzie player. I bet the Sox would love to dump him, but that contact is a joke. Konerko will play this year and next year and then it's over.

batmanZoSo
05-17-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Same thing was said of Manuel last year. Ozzie said those who didn't play his style would not be on the field.

The players have to produce, but this has been a bad week of managing from Ozzie.

That leaves us with a lineup of:

Willie Harris CF
Juan Uribe SS
?
?
?
?
?
?
?

That might work in the sandlot.

bigdommer
05-17-2004, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
This was my (and others') biggest concern when they announced Ozzie and he showed up at the press conference wanting to play little-ball. This is a 16" softball team. You can't turn a bunch of beer-leaguers into track stars.

Uribe, Olivo and Harris are about the only ones capable.

I must admit I was skeptical about Ozzie ball, but this team can do some things. Like you said, Uribe, Olivo, and Harris can run, but don't forget about some other things. Lee can run too, he stole 20 bags last year. He's not the best baserunner, but he is agressive and hustles (just like Ozzie). Maggs is one of the best at situational hitting and hitting behind runners. Frank is one of the best in the game at taking pitches and working counts. And Jose, can sac bunt and bunt for hit, as well as run smart and agressively around the bases. All of these things work, and are working in Ozzie's plan.

Some things that are not working: 1) Konerko-he will never work in Ozzie ball. 2) Crede-he is striking out way too much to be effective in this offense. He hasn't had to bunt, or hit and run or anything like that, because Lee and Konerko have been useless in front of him. 3)Guys like Alomar have to be able to bunt- no matter what. That was absolutely embarrasing Friday night. A former All-star, a long time veteran, 9-hole hitting catcher has to get a bunt down, no questions asked. 4) Last major problem- Rowand's replacement Jeremy Reed has not been called up yet.

Lip Man 1
05-17-2004, 12:34 PM
Bob Vanderberg brought up a tremendous point that I really hadn't thought about and I wanted to pass it along.

Bob stated that no matter who is the manager the Sox can not play 'small ball,' because of the decision of Jerry Reinsdorf and his investors to bring the fences in.

Bob says that Comiskey is now a launching pad and there is no way you can shape a team that plays 81 games in that park to not try to hit home runs. Doing so is folly in his opinion.

He says that Jerry Manuel wanted to play small ball and was doing it in the first few seasons of his managerial reign but then the fences came in and that ended that.

Bob states that with all the money spent of the renovations (even though it wasn't Uncle Jerry's) there is no way they are going to reshape the park again and bring the fences out somewhat.

Makes a trmendous amount of sense to me and I guess that further shows how foolish it is of the Sox to not emphasize pitching and to spend the money needed to put together solid, deep staffs. Part of winning in Comiskey is to put together staffs good enough to stop the other teams from bashing home runs.

Just something to consider.

Lip

Randar68
05-17-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Part of winning in Comiskey is to put together staffs good enough to stop the other teams from bashing home runs.

That's how you win anywhere in baseball. Pitching >>>> Hitting.

Frater Perdurabo
05-17-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Makes a trmendous amount of sense to me and I guess that further shows how foolish it is of the Sox to not emphasize pitching and to spend the money needed to put together solid, deep staffs. Part of winning in Comiskey is to put together staffs good enough to stop the other teams from bashing home runs.

I too want to see the Sox build a great staff, not unlike what the Cubs have done. I'm sure you will agree that it is going to take a radical change in ownership philosophy, however, as JR will have to open the wallet to sign free agent pitchers and the good young home-grown pitchers. It would also help to have a team with a defense with tremendous range to help out those pitchers. So far, the Sox are getting that good defense to support their pitchers this year, and it is what has kept the Sox in contention this year considering their inconsistent offense.

rahulsekhar
05-17-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
I too want to see the Sox build a great staff, not unlike what the Cubs have done. I'm sure you will agree that it is going to take a radical change in ownership philosophy, however, as JR will have to open the wallet to sign free agent pitchers and the good young home-grown pitchers. It would also help to have a team with a defense with tremendous range to help out those pitchers. So far, the Sox are getting that good defense to support their pitchers this year, and it is what has kept the Sox in contention this year considering their inconsistent offense.

Cubs have done it through their farm system and most importantly: through the cheapness of other teams (i.e. Prior not gettgin drafted by Minny).

Sox are attempting to do the same with Buehrle, Diaz, Rauch, Cotts, Honel, Wing, etc. They're also doing one thing they seem to excel at: finding "washed up" starters and turning them into solid to studly pitchers (Eldred, Loaiza, Schoeny).

Iwritecode
05-17-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Makes a trmendous amount of sense to me and I guess that further shows how foolish it is of the Sox to not emphasize pitching and to spend the money needed to put together solid, deep staffs. Part of winning in Comiskey is to put together staffs good enough to stop the other teams from bashing home runs.



Originally posted by Randar68
That's how you win anywhere in baseball. Pitching >>>> Hitting.


Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
I too want to see the Sox build a great staff, not unlike what the Cubs have done.

Ya know that's funny and leads me to something that I wanted to mention. While I was at the game on Saturday night they flashed an interesting statistic up on the scoreboard:

Since the beginning of the 2003 season, the Sox are 2ND in MLB in quality starts. The only team with more is the Cubs.

It's either the BP or the offense that's not getting the job done. The pitching, for the most part, has been there.

Don't tell me that pitching and defense wins games...

Randar68
05-17-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Ya know that's funny and leads me to something that I wanted to mention. While I was at the game on Saturday night they flashed an interesting statistic up on the scoreboard:

Since the beginning of the 2003 season, the Sox are 2ND in MLB in quality starts. The only team with more is the Cubs.

It's either the BP or the offense that's not getting the job done. The pitching, for the most part, has been there.

Don't tell me that pitching and defense wins games...

Well. The Sox bullpen has been mediocre for the most part, especially at the back end. In addition, having 3 starters sho go deep into games regularly doesn't tell you anything about your #4 and #5 starters, who pitch almost 40% of the games.

In addition, if anything, it tells you how mediocre of a statistical measure "quality start" is.

KingXerxes
05-17-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by rahulsekhar
Cubs have done it through their farm system and most importantly: through the cheapness of other teams (i.e. Prior not gettgin drafted by Minny).

Sox are attempting to do the same with Buehrle, Diaz, Rauch, Cotts, Honel, Wing, etc. They're also doing one thing they seem to excel at: finding "washed up" starters and turning them into solid to studly pitchers (Eldred, Loaiza, Schoeny).

The biggest difference between the Cubs and White Sox this year is depth.

Look at the Cubs - Prior, Remlinger, Grudzelniak, Gonzales all are out with injuries, Sosa, Walker and Wood are all temporarily down - and they go to the West Coast and take 4 or 6 using their bench and role players.

I shudder to think what would happen to the White Sox if they lost the likes of Buehrle, Marte and others.

We have no depth on this team.