PDA

View Full Version : One definition of 'insanity'


gosox41
05-15-2004, 11:46 PM
I've mentioned this before, but one definition is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Isn't that what is happening here? KW has failed to address the real holes of this team, a lack of versatility.

I give this team to June 15 (though if you ask my wife or some people here I've given up on this team before the season started) and if this team still isn't hitting it's time for a massive overhaul.


Before you say I'm it's early, by my count it's year 4 of watching the same thing over and over again. Anyone see the movie 'Groundhog Day?' That's what this team is like. The same holes are unfilled every year for the last 4(CF, 5ht starter, possible 2B). The same 4 power hitters slump at the same time...again for th 4th year in a row. And for the 4th year in a row the starting pitching as a whole has been above my expectations so I can't even blame them.

I called for it after last season and I'm calling for it after June 15. If this team is a legit contender (ie within 5 games and players playing well) add payroll. If they're hitting like this, everyone must go (except for Frank).




Bob

Lip Man 1
05-16-2004, 02:17 AM
hard to argue with your comments.

There's an old saying fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.

Lip

SoxxoS
05-16-2004, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I called for it after last season and I'm calling for it after June 15. If this team is a legit contender (ie within 5 games and players playing well) add payroll. If they're hitting like this, everyone must go (except for Frank).

I think if we are playing well, we could still take a "Everyone must go" and STILL improve tremendously. I think everyone of the position players on this team is tradeable. That's right. Everyone...

You want Maggs? Fine. You want Crede? OK. You want CLee? Take him. Thomas? Big fan, but for the right price...

EVERYONE.

I think if we are in contention that is all the more reason to break up this team. We have a capable outfielder to replace any of the 3 (if traded) in Jeremy Reed. We have a surplus of infielders with Harris, Uribe, Valentin, and Crede fighting for 3 spots.

Someone (s) need to go. Long slumps are not indicitive of a playoff team. You go through a long slump like this in the playoffs, you are going to get eliminated anyway.

inta
05-16-2004, 04:31 AM
i guess mid season is a decent notice, but right now i'm all for imploding this team sooner than later.

no doubt we have semi-talented guys, but there's just no urgency, no get up and go. if ever there was a team of overated saps, it's your 2004 White Sox.
If it was just this year, I'd say it's just a bad period, but this has been a chronic problem since 2000. The Sox just get insanely lazy and they just dont care.



I'm so sick of this de ja vu crap.

:angry:

Nard
05-16-2004, 05:16 AM
Tell me about it. The first couple series, fists pumping, guys all shouting, all into the games.

Now it looks like, dare I say... corpseball.

And Ozzie just sits there and mumbles to himself.

When he called that mini-team meeting in the dugout that one game the bats exploded after that.

Is that all it takes? Some stupid talk? Why not be on that level 24/7?

samram
05-16-2004, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Nard
Tell me about it. The first couple series, fists pumping, guys all shouting, all into the games.

Now it looks like, dare I say... corpseball.

And Ozzie just sits there and mumbles to himself.

When he called that mini-team meeting in the dugout that one game the bats exploded after that.

Is that all it takes? Some stupid talk? Why not be on that level 24/7?

Unfotunately, this team has shown that it does take closed-door meetings and shouting to get motivated. I think Ozzie has to be frustrated now that he is finding he can't do the things he wants to do becuase he just doesn't have players that are versatile enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see a major shake-up if the Twins get the sweep today. I don't care whether the move is to improve to the point where they are clearly the best team in the division or if it's to break things up and go in a different direction, but this 4 year mission has turned quixotic. One positive is that if they do decide to go to a more "Ozzie-friendly" team, they have some guys like Harris, Olivo and Uribe already playing pretty well that fit into that style. These guys are also up-the-middle guys upon whom teams should be built.

gosox41
05-16-2004, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
hard to argue with your comments.

There's an old saying fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.

Lip

Unless you're Geroge Bush making those commentsa few years ago. You need a long pause after you say the first 'shame' to figure out who to shame first.



:D:


Bob

gosox41
05-16-2004, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I think if we are playing well, we could still take a "Everyone must go" and STILL improve tremendously. I think everyone of the position players on this team is tradeable. That's right. Everyone...

You want Maggs? Fine. You want Crede? OK. You want CLee? Take him. Thomas? Big fan, but for the right price...

EVERYONE.

I think if we are in contention that is all the more reason to break up this team. We have a capable outfielder to replace any of the 3 (if traded) in Jeremy Reed. We have a surplus of infielders with Harris, Uribe, Valentin, and Crede fighting for 3 spots.

Someone (s) need to go. Long slumps are not indicitive of a playoff team. You go through a long slump like this in the playoffs, you are going to get eliminated anyway.

I agree. I don't want to really watch the rest of this swoon where they fall 8 games out of first and 7 games below .500 because the hitters don't hit.

It's getting ridiculous every damn year.

That's why I'm all for trading pitching to.

IMHO, the only pitcher I'd keep is Garland because he's still young and has done all right. Buehrle's number's have decreased the last 3 years, but he's a lefty and the Sox can get top talent for him. The Sox need to sell 'high' on Schonweis. And it can't hurt to sell 'high' with Loaiza, especially if his velocity is down.

There's no reason the Sox can't get at least 5 type A prospects for these guys with some type B or C's in there. Loaiza and Schoneweiss are bargains at their prices. Buehrle and Schoneweiss are valuable because their lefties. Buehrle is vlauiable because he is relatively cheap and has won before.

Without stating the obvious, no contending team is going to trade their best hitter for a SP if there in the race. And it's time for the Sox to start over. Get some type A prospects that are close tothe ML's. Free up some money for next season's free agency. Hope guys like Reed, Borchard, Rauch and Diaz are ready to contrbiute and get some people who can do something besides hit the home run.


Bob

gosox41
05-16-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by samram
Unfotunately, this team has shown that it does take closed-door meetings and shouting to get motivated. I think Ozzie has to be frustrated now that he is finding he can't do the things he wants to do becuase he just doesn't have players that are versatile enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see a major shake-up if the Twins get the sweep today. I don't care whether the move is to improve to the point where they are clearly the best team in the division or if it's to break things up and go in a different direction, but this 4 year mission has turned quixotic. One positive is that if they do decide to go to a more "Ozzie-friendly" team, they have some guys like Harris, Olivo and Uribe already playing pretty well that fit into that style. These guys are also up-the-middle guys upon whom teams should be built.

KW won't have a shake up unless JR forces him to knock off payroll. Then KW Is stupid enough to let it be known that 'everyonoe must go' at a discount and we'll trade All Star calibe talent for people like Jon Adkins.

KW will say what he has the last 3 years: 'it's early, the bats will heat up, the pitching has been better then expected, etc' Now add to that 'give Ozzie a chance'


Bob

Lip Man 1
05-16-2004, 12:43 PM
Bob:

But remember there are some fans here on this board who continue to say that pitching isn't all that big of a deal (and neither is defense...) despite the numbers showing that to win championships you need to have a solid staff top to bottom (ask the Yankees and Braves...)

If I could do one magical thing it would be to bring back some of the Sox pitching staff from the late 50's through 1967 en masse here to this time.

I'd love to be able to show everyone how those guys would dominate today's 'all or nothing at all' free swingers despite the size difference and the band box ballparks. Guys like Pizarro, Peters, Wilhelm, Locker, Herbert, Pierce, Wynn, Horlen and John would brutalize these guys.

Pitching wins pennants but pitching costs money and the Sox, of course, don't have it. (Which is why they have had a 'black hole' at the back end of the rotation since 1994.)

When you look at what has happened to the Oakland staff so far this season and what's gone on with the Mets staff it's incredible that the Sox could have been so stupid as to fire the 'best guy I've ever seen as a pitching coach,' according to Jack McDowell..and that's Rick Petersen.

Lip

dickallen15
05-16-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Bob:

But remember there are some fans here on this board who continue to say that pitching isn't all that big of a deal (and neither is defense...) despite the numbers showing that to win championships you need to have a solid staff top to bottom (ask the Yankees and Braves...)

If I could do one magical thing it would be to bring back some of the Sox pitching staff from the late 50's through 1967 en masse here to this time.

I'd love to be able to show everyone how those guys would dominate today's 'all or nothing at all' free swingers despite the size difference and the band box ballparks. Guys like Pizarro, Peters, Wilhelm, Locker, Herbert, Pierce, Wynn, Horlen and John would brutalize these guys.

Pitching wins pennants but pitching costs money and the Sox, of course, don't have it. (Which is why they have had a 'black hole' at the back end of the rotation since 1994.)

When you look at what has happened to the Oakland staff so far this season and what's gone on with the Mets staff it's incredible that the Sox could have been so stupid as to fire the 'best guy I've ever seen as a pitching coach,' according to Jack McDowell..and that's Rick Petersen.

Lip

That was another Schueler gaffe. Schueler was to the White Sox what Bob Pulford is to the Blackhawks. The Sox are still reeling from Schueler's decisions. Not to mention how badly he overrated his minor league pitching.

johnny_mostil
05-16-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Bob:

I'd love to be able to show everyone how those guys would dominate today's 'all or nothing at all' free swingers despite the size difference and the band box ballparks. Guys like Pizarro, Peters, Wilhelm, Locker, Herbert, Pierce, Wynn, Horlen and John would brutalize these guys.


Right. Despote throwing off a mound half a foot lower, against hitters who discovered athletic training.

No way. Pitchers today are every bit as good as they ever were, if not nastier. Their stuff is faster and they have more pitches. Major league teams just aren't stupid enough to send up hitters like Tom McCraw any more.

SoxxoS
05-16-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
That was another Schueler gaffe. Schueler was to the White Sox what Bob Pulford is to the Blackhawks. The Sox are still reeling from Schueler's decisions. Not to mention how badly he overrated his minor league pitching.

I wasn't just Schueler that overrated the pitching...all those guys were highly touted by baseball america and the such as well...

A. Cavatica
05-16-2004, 02:35 PM
Jeez, could everyone please stay on an even keel?

It's one thing to be down on this team if you predicted 77-85 before the season, as I did, and you didn't get too excited about April.

If you jumped on the bandwagon in April and just jumped off...get a grip!

StillMissOzzie
05-16-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I've mentioned this before, but one definition is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.



Like me picking El Caballo as my PTC, but not today?

SMO
:angry:

Still 0-for-2004 in PTC...