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voodoochile
05-15-2004, 08:24 PM
Sox Lose, 4-1...
:angry:

Sox fans, I think I know how you feel, but go ahead and let it out...

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 08:25 PM
:hurt

"I wonder if the Dodgers still want me?"

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 08:26 PM
I'm not even going to say much about this game, because I can't tell my true feelings without lots of swearing. Sorry voodoo for not making the lineup thread the official game thread, I guess I had a brain cramp....kind of fitting since this is a white sox website.

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 08:26 PM
Okay, when does Ozzie start taking some of the blame for the way the team is playing. The free swinging, the tinkering, the benching of Uribe, the insistence on playing Rowand instead of Harris in CF.

At some point, Ozzie has to take some of the grief, IMO.

Whitesox029
05-15-2004, 08:27 PM
And today's loftiest dwarf is.........Frank I assume.
We couldn't be doing a better job of handing these bums the division on a silver platter. I am so sick of this. I just do not understand this team. They just never play to their potential. can't we all peak at the same time? The pitching is great now. The hitting is less than great. By late July, we'll be hitting, but the pitchers will be giving up 6 runs a game. I swear this is 2003 all over again and frankly I'm just sick to my stomach about it. Meanwhile the national league club in this city is doing well by their typical standards. I have never been so close to pretending to renounce my soxfandom in order to get out of a sticky situation involving Cub fans. You guys think you have it bad now. In High School, Cub fans are not only obnoxious jerks, they're immature too. Meanwhile we can't beat the Twins in our home park. Is there a single person registered at WSI who thinks we can beat them in theirs?

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
I'm not even going to say much about this game, because I can't tell my true feelings without lots of swearing. Sorry voodoo for not making the lineup thread the official game thread, I guess I had a brain cramp....kind of fitting since this is a white sox website.

Not an issue, no apology necessary. Just wanted to let you know to do it in the future.

ndgt10
05-15-2004, 08:29 PM
:bashbro

"I think you guys need some more right handed pop in your lineup"

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 08:29 PM
1 run, 4 hits against a guy with a 6.50 ERA

I guess the hitting is waiting until we are 8 or 9 games down in the standings again. None of us should be surprised.

These guys didn't look like they cared about being out there. Where is this pep we were going to see everyday from Ozzie? Playing the game the right way? What a joke. Maybe JM wasn't all that bad. Maybe our players just suck.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Maybe JM wasn't all that bad.

Don't get carried away.

:jerry

"I can't imagine any reason short of an emergency for playing Frank at first base."

:jerry

"Frankly, I think it (starting at Yankee Stadium) is a bigger deal for Buehrle than it is for us."

:jerry

"I do like to tinker. It usually doesn't work, though."

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Don't get carried away.

:jerry

"I can't imagine any reason short of an emergency for playing Frank at first base."

:jerry

"Frankly, I think it (starting at Yankee Stadium) is a bigger deal for Buehrle than it is for us."

:jerry

"I do like to tinker. It usually doesn't work, though."

Is that worse than:

:ozzie:
"You don't need to take any pitches, guys, just swing away. No bunting, just poundng. See baseball, hit baseball."

or

:ozzie:
"Uribe who? I make out the ****ing lineups."

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 08:35 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

*Walks into clubhouse to "talk" with team*

:caballo :walnuts :manos :crede

"Uh, oh..."

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Don't get carried away.

:jerry

"I can't imagine any reason short of an emergency for playing Frank at first base."

:jerry

"Frankly, I think it (starting at Yankee Stadium) is a bigger deal for Buehrle than it is for us."

:jerry

"I do like to tinker. It usually doesn't work, though."

I know. I'm just saying I don't think there is a big difference between the two. I haven't seen Ozzie try to get the guys pumped up in the dugout, and he has made more stupid moves in this one week than I think JM made in a month.

It's like he's not even there. I figured our guys would be jacked up for the biggest series of the year so far, but I guess they are content to just sit there and fall in the standings again.

:ozzie zzzzzzzzzzzzz....

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 08:37 PM
:ozzie
"You can't spell Socks Lineup with out a P and a K."

:hurt
"That's Sox with an X, Ozzie..."

:ozzie
"I make out the ****ing lineup."

hose
05-15-2004, 08:38 PM
Ozzie says the Sox have better talent , but talent doesn't win ball games.

1st base- mancavztrezxa or Konerko -twins
2nd base -rivas or Harris -twins
ss-guzman or Valentine/Uribe -twins
3rd- Koskie or Crede -twins
rf- jones or Ordonez -Sox
cf -hunter or Rowand -twins
lf -stewart or Lee -twins
c- mauer/lecroy or Alomar/Olivo -twins
dh- offerman or Hurt -Sox
starting pitching -Sox
bull pen -twins
bench -Sox

twins-8 Sox-4

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 08:39 PM
Oh yah, and in our last six losses, all important games, we have given up only 5, 4, 4, 1, 3, 4. Good teams make that into 5 or 6 wins, not losses.

Our pitchers have been awesome, and our hitting is AWFUL.

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by hose
Ozzie says the Sox have better talent , but talent doesn't win ball games.

1st base- mancavztrezxa or Konerko -twins
2nd base -rivas or Harris -twins
ss-guzman or Valentine/Uribe -twins
3rd- Koskie or Crede -twins
rf- jones or Ordonez -Sox
cf -hunter or Rowand -twins
lf -stewart or Lee -twins
c- mauer/lecroy or Alomar/Olivo -twins
dh- offerman or Hurt -Sox
starting pitching -Sox
bull pen -twins
bench -Sox

I would take Harris, Jones, and give the Twins a BIG, BIG advantage in the coaching staff.

Win1ForMe
05-15-2004, 08:41 PM
A few things:

1) It's hard to score many runs when 7 out of the 9 hitters are only looking to pull the ball.

2) I hate Joe Crede. He's a corpse, I said it once and I'll say it again. I don't think anyone has crappier ABs in this lineup. But people get excited because he can hit a fly ball at the end of some games (appearantly meaniing he's "clutch" despite a .185 average with RISP).

3) I hope the team paying Maggs $14M will not be the White Sox.

4) What's so scary is we have to play the Twins in the Metrodome. I don't see how we're not down at least 5 games by the end of next week.

Nard
05-15-2004, 08:46 PM
Crede is absolutely terrible, I'll give you that.

2B- Harris
SS- Valentin
3B- Uribe

That's it. That's just it.

Can Gload play 3B in case Valentin keeps his 1+ errors/game ratio going and we gotta move Mr. Fanstastic over to SS?

Oh, wait, Gload should be in for PK. That's right.

samram
05-15-2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
A few things:

1) It's hard to score many runs when 7 out of the 9 hitters are only looking to pull the ball.

2) I hate Joe Crede. He's a corpse, I said it once and I'll say it again. I don't think anyone has crappier ABs in this lineup. But people get excited because he can hit a fly ball at the end of some games (appearantly meaniing he's "clutch" despite a .185 average with RISP).

3) I hope the team paying Maggs $14M will not be the White Sox.

4) What's so scary is we have to play the Twins in the Metrodome. I don't see how we're not down at least 5 games by the end of next week.

1) True

2) He's not the only corpse.

3) He will earn that money when the Sox are 53-55 in early August and the team makes a "run" to get to 65-62, during which Maggs will hit a ton and make his numbers look good, all of which will mean nothing when the team finishes 84-78. I like Maggs, but he is not Vlad Guerrero.

4) Actually if they're down five games, they seem to play better. It's those one and two game deficits that make them bad.

I didn't see the game tonight, but looking at the score, I know I've watched it 250 times over the last 3 years.

inta
05-15-2004, 08:51 PM
ugh.

that's all i can say.
this team blows, yeah we do good against tampa and KC. but MN isnt even that good of a team. i cant wait till we head out to oakland and anneheim. .. oy vey.

WhiteSox = Life
05-15-2004, 08:52 PM
I watched two innings last night and three innings tonight.

I wonder how many I'll watch tomorrow afternoon?

:(:

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by samram
1) True

2) He's not the only corpse.

3) He will earn that money when the Sox are 53-55 in early August and the team makes a "run" to get to 65-62, during which Maggs will hit a ton and make his numbers look good, all of which will mean nothing when the team finishes 84-78. I like Maggs, but he is not Vlad Guerrero.

4) Actually if they're down five games, they seem to play better. It's those one and two game deficits that make them bad.

I didn't see the game tonight, but looking at the score, I know I've watched it 250 times over the last 3 years.

Exactly exactly exactly. That is so dead on. Especially about Maggs. So dead on. He LOVES to rack up the numbers when the games dont matter.

I was thinking about it today. I remember SOOOOOOOOOO many big hits for the Twins right fielder Jacque Jones when the Twinkies play and beat us. THe homer against Colon. The big base hits with RISP last August. The big base hits last night.

Then I think what Maggs has done agianst the Twins......absolutely nothing big in a game that matters. Nothing. I remember a two-run homer in a blow out last year. Their players get it done when it matters. I wish ours could. But thats ok Maggs. Pad your stats when we are 10 GB in July.

DrummerGeorgefan
05-15-2004, 08:54 PM
God would i love to see Ozzie walk up and down the dugout like a battle commander back in WW2 and yell at these guys to get them going. Thats what this team needs. Either we die in the division lethargic on the bench or we die to the Twins going out like bandits............

Nard
05-15-2004, 08:55 PM
Yeah, man.

For all the talk about Ozzie's energy he hasn't been thrown out (or am I mistaken?), and lately he's sure been doing a lot of sitting on the bench mumbling to himself.

After that Marte "ball" he should've gotten tossed.

Show us something.

cheeses_h_rice
05-15-2004, 08:57 PM
Glad I only watched about 2 innings of this garbage.

So, Sox fans, think our team is still "better than the Twins"?

Nard
05-15-2004, 08:58 PM
We play better against some teams than the Twins do.

That enough to win the central? :D:

DrummerGeorgefan
05-15-2004, 09:00 PM
I've seen no fire in these guys in the past few games...In the KC series to open the season up guys were pumping fists and going nuts, now, there is no fire.

joecrede
05-15-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by hose
Ozzie says the Sox have better talent , but talent doesn't win ball games.

1st base- mancavztrezxa or Konerko -twins
2nd base -rivas or Harris -twins
ss-guzman or Valentine/Uribe -twins
3rd- Koskie or Crede -twins
rf- jones or Ordonez -Sox
cf -hunter or Rowand -twins
lf -stewart or Lee -twins
c- mauer/lecroy or Alomar/Olivo -twins
dh- offerman or Hurt -Sox
starting pitching -Sox
bull pen -twins
bench -Sox

twins-8 Sox-4

Guzman????

joecrede
05-15-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by DrummerGeorgefan
I've seen no fire in these guys in the past few games...In the KC series to open the season up guys were pumping fists and going nuts, now, there is no fire.

I see no baserunners.

SoxxoS
05-15-2004, 09:02 PM
Here is the worst part:

When our hitters get hot, the pitchers will get pounded. Show will look like he did last year and in spring training. Koch will blow a couple of games...Politte will blow a couple of games...Marte will blow a couple of games...Diaz won't be the answer...etc.

Nard
05-15-2004, 09:04 PM
Oh, and, Hunter's HR ball was thrown back onto the field.

Let's talk about adding insult to injury here.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2004, 09:04 PM
Imagine if the Twins had Radke or Santana pitching!

Eight in a row dating back to last season... The Curse of Jose Paniagua!

Lip

SoxxoS
05-15-2004, 09:04 PM
KW-
We needed a manager change. You got us one. We are 3 games above last years pace...about what you expect.

BUT IT'S THE SAME TEAM.

And people wonder why we haven't done a complete 180 from last year. This is the same group of station to station, slumping, can't hit no-name pitchers, piles of garbage we had last year.

Minus the guy who is hitting .370, who we can't find a place for.

:chunks

SoxxoS
05-15-2004, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Imagine if the Twins had Radke or Santana pitching!

Eight in a row dating back to last season... The Curse of Jose Paniagua!

Lip

We would hit Radke or Santana better than Lohse and Greisinger...those aren't no name pitchers.

Jjav829
05-15-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I would take Harris, Jones, and give the Twins a BIG, BIG advantage in the coaching staff.

LOL, I don't even know how to respond to that. Funny. Credibility quickly dropping...

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
LOL, I don't even know how to respond to that. Funny. Credibility quickly dropping...

I thought he was just talking in head to head games, Twins against the White Sox. Obviously I'd take Maggs overall, but in head to head, Jones wears us out, like I said in my post above. Maggs has never carried us against Minny in the big games. In fact, he's sucked rather mightily.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 09:15 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

*Ignites lightsaber and begins chasing Carlos Lee around the clubhouse*

:caballo

"AHHHHHHHHHH!"

joecrede
05-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Harris benched in favor of Uribe at 2nd.
Rowand & Konerko should be replaced by Perez/Harris and Gload against right-handed pitching.
Alomar plays no more than once a week.
Move Thomas back to third in the order, Ordonez fourth.


Line-up

2B Uribe
C Olivo
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
SS Valentin
LF Lee
1B Gload
CF Perez
3B Crede

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I thought he was just talking in head to head games, Twins against the White Sox. Obviously I'd take Maggs overall, but in head to head, Jones wears us out, like I said in my post above. Maggs has never carried us against Minny in the big games. In fact, he's sucked rather mightily.

And maybe I don't want to say obviously. For the money they get, I'd take Jones in a heartbeat. Maggs isn't clutch. Bottom line. He hits .400 in the second half when we are WAY out of the race and there is no pressure. I'm getting really sick of Maggs not putting up the big numbers when it matters like a man getting paid 14 mil a year should. So in that respect, for the buck, maybe I would take Jones.

Pop up a 3-0 pitch in the biggest game of the year so far. Friggin pathetic.

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Nard
Oh, and, Hunter's HR ball was thrown back onto the field.

Let's talk about adding insult to injury here.

You think that fan was severely pissed when they saw the Twins collect it and save it? *****! What an idiot...

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by joecrede

Harris benched in favor of Uribe at 2nd.
Rowand & Konerko should be replaced by Perez/Harris and Gload against right-handed pitching.
Alomar plays no more than once a week.
Move Thomas back to third in the order, Ordonez fourth.


Line-up

2B Uribe
C Olivo
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
SS Valentin
LF Lee
1B Gload
CF Perez
3B Crede
So you want to sit one of the few players in this lineup actually doing his job in Willie? :?:

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
So you want to sit one of the few players in this lineup actually doing his job in Willie? :?:

I agree. Leave Harris at second, put Uribe at short, and bench Valentin.

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You think that fan was severely pissed when they saw the Twins collect it and save it? *****! What an idiot...
That stuff just annoys and angers me, stop throwing the ball back. The guy who caught it didn't want to throw it back and then someone else threw it back on the field, I'm not sure if the original guy who caught it gave it to the other guy, or if it was just taken from him.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 09:31 PM
In other news, the Pacers are about to win Game 5 of their series with the Miami Heat.

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
That stuff just annoys and angers me, stop throwing the ball back. The guy who caught it didn't want to throw it back and then someone else threw it back on the field, I'm not sure if the original guy who caught it gave it to the other guy, or if it was just taken from him.
I forgot to mention that I got a foul ball off the bat of PK yesterday. I was thinking of blowing the ball up, so maybe I could get rid of "the curse of Paul Konerko,", because remember the Cubs got rid of their curse by blowing the bartman ball up.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
foul paul

Truer words were never spoken.

CWSGuy406
05-15-2004, 09:33 PM
Guys - I know this is the last thing you probably want to hear, but can we please just relax a bit? Guess what, last year at around this time we took two out of three from the Twins in our first series against them. The Twins scored a total of six runs that series, and in the two games they lost, they scored two runs.

What did that get us, taking the first series from Minny? It got us another second place finish.

Now, I'm not saying these games are meaningless, because obviously they are pretty big games, confidence wise, etc, etc. Hell, Sure, I would have wanted things to have ended differently these past two games, but you know what, we lost them. Move on. Beat them tommorow.

We're obviously not hitting right now, anyone can say that. But to blame this on Ozzie? We're not hitting - Uribe should be in the lineup, and Rowand should be out. But come on guys, some of you sound like the season is over and we should just give up. Because you know what, I know it, you all know it, that this team is and will get hot very soon.

Plain and simple, this team is struggling. But guys, relax. I was at the game and was probably just as pissed or even more so than you. But to be blaming people, Ozzie, Kenny Williams and such, for us losing right now? Come on, *****.

Have a beer, and yet again, I say relax. :gulp:

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Truer words were never spoken.
LOL, woops, good thing for that edit button.

Jjav829
05-15-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
And maybe I don't want to say obviously. For the money they get, I'd take Jones in a heartbeat. Maggs isn't clutch. Bottom line. He hits .400 in the second half when we are WAY out of the race and there is no pressure. I'm getting really sick of Maggs not putting up the big numbers when it matters like a man getting paid 14 mil a year should. So in that respect, for the buck, maybe I would take Jones.

Pop up a 3-0 pitch in the biggest game of the year so far. Friggin pathetic.

When were we ever out of the race last year besides the final week?

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 09:35 PM
It's remarkable how much this seaosn resembles last season.

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
It's remarkable how much this seaosn resembles last season.
It's scary not remarkable.

JGarlandrules20
05-15-2004, 09:37 PM
GAH. What a waste of money. Only 4 freaking hits!!!! :angry:

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Guys - I know this is the last thing you probably want to hear, but can we please just relax a bit? Guess what, last year at around this time we took two out of three from the Twins in our first series against them. The Twins scored a total of six runs that series, and in the two games they lost, they scored two runs.

What did that get us, taking the first series from Minny? It got us another second place finish.

Now, I'm not saying these games are meaningless, because obviously they are pretty big games, confidence wise, etc, etc. Hell, Sure, I would have wanted things to have ended differently these past two games, but you know what, we lost them. Move on. Beat them tommorow.

We're obviously not hitting right now, anyone can say that. But to blame this on Ozzie? We're not hitting - Uribe should be in the lineup, and Rowand should be out. But come on guys, some of you sound like the season is over and we should just give up. Because you know what, I know it, you all know it, that this team is and will get hot very soon.

Plain and simple, this team is struggling. But guys, relax. I was at the game and was probably just as pissed or even more so than you. But to be blaming people, Ozzie, Kenny Williams and such, for us losing right now? Come on, *****.

Have a beer, and yet again, I say relax. :gulp:

I'm with you if you can give me just one reason why I should think this year will be any different than what we've seen in the past three years. Like some people have been saying, it's not the problem that we've been losing these games, its the WAY we've been losing them. We dont' play well under pressure and won't heat up til we are too far out of the race. We aren't clutch and a good team when the games matter, and until you can give me a reason to think otherwise, I think this team is in a lot of trouble.

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
When were we ever out of the race last year besides the final week?

9 games behind is usually considered out of the race. It has been the last few years. That's when Maggs heated up, like always. Luckily, KC was awful and the entire division was awful, but when we were 9 GB at the break, we were out of it. When we needed Maggs to step up big in the last two games at home against Minny, and during the three games at Minny, he couldn't do it. He's not a pressure player. But you can certainly disagree if you'd like to.

It's easy to hit the ball when the games dont matter, and the team proved that when they had Minny on the ropes and just got crushed by them at the end.

joecrede
05-15-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by OEO Magglio
So you want to sit one of the few players in this lineup actually doing his job in Willie? :?:

When he's hitting well put him in center instead of Perez. Point is the way the team is structured (no left-handed power besides him) Valentin has to play everyday.

Jjav829
05-15-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
9 games behind is usually considered out of the race. It has been the last few years. That's when Maggs heated up, like always. Luckily, KC was awful and the entire division was awful, but when we were 9 GB at the break, we were out of it. When we needed Maggs to step up big in the last two games at home against Minny, and during the three games at Minny, he couldn't do it. He's not a pressure player. But you can certainly disagree if you'd like to.

It's easy to hit the ball when the games dont matter, and the team proved that when they had Minny on the ropes and just got crushed by them at the end.

You are aware that this team did in fact lead the AL Central in September last year? Because you seem to have either forgotten that or just glossed over it because it didn't help your argument. And who do you think helped the Sox get to first place in September?

Lip Man 1
05-15-2004, 09:51 PM
Actually it's seven not eight (unless of course they dump tomorrow) my bad.

Anyway it makes these words written by Phil Rogers in his column Saturday morning seem positively chilling.

"Since the start of 2001, they (the Sox) have a .595 winning percentage at home and .438 on the road. That makes them the AL's Colorado Rockies, which is not a terrific claim.

Though manager Ozzie Guillen talks about teaching his team to play smallball, this continues to be a team that lives and dies on home runs. The difference in the home and road record over the last four years lies largely in the 112 more homers that have been hit at U.S. Cellular.

More often than not, the White Sox hitters might as well be trying to manufacture washing machines as runs.

They lost the opener of Thursday's doubleheader for the lack of a single run, wasting a strong outing by Jon Garland, and failed to take advantage of getting the tying run on base with no outs in both the eighth and ninth innings Friday.

The ninth was a disaster.

Rowand reached on a throwing error by shortstop Cristian Guzman, but then had three straight dashes to second base stopped when Sandy Alomar Jr. couldn't get down a bunt. He fouled off the first two and bunted through the two-strike pitch, giving closer Joe Nathan one out.

Willie Harris worked Nathan to a 3-2 count, prompting Guillen to put Rowand in motion. But Harris took a third strike and Rowand was cut down trying to steal.

Guillen still was wincing 15 minutes afterward.

Maybe he just hasn't figured it out. For this White Sox team, with Magglio Ordonez, Thomas, Konerko and Lee in the middle, it's big bang or bust."

"We're doomed..."--Linus Van Pelt "It's The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown..."

Lip

CWSGuy406
05-15-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
I'm with you if you can give me just one reason why I should think this year will be any different than what we've seen in the past three years. Like some people have been saying, it's not the problem that we've been losing these games, its the WAY we've been losing them. We dont' play well under pressure and won't heat up til we are too far out of the race. We aren't clutch and a good team when the games matter, and until you can give me a reason to think otherwise, I think this team is in a lot of trouble.

Why should you think this year should be different? Well, you know what, I don't know why you should think differently, but here's why I don't think this team is drowning just yet...

-Have we really hit on all cylindars at any time this season yet? I mean, early on, we hit the ball, but our pitching wasn't the greatest, and now it's vice versa.

-Our pitching has been pretty damn good so far - Come on, who would have thought that at this time, Scott Schoenweis (sp?) would be leading our staff in ERA. Buerhle hasn't really pitched his best yet, and Garland has been at both ends of the spectrum. Loaiza has been alright, not terrible, not great. Hell, I'll even throw in the good word for Diaz. He threw strikes and got hit by a good hitting Os team, so give him another chance. He walked one person, and he was able to get three pitches over for strikes. The pitches hit out were up and the zone - ok, he's learned his lesson, changeup's up in the zone aren't going to work too often.

-Our hitters haven't clicked at all, other than a few standouts like Uribe. We've been streaky, and it's just our luck that ALL of our hitters are slumping right now.

-I don't get why you keep saying this team is going to be 10 out at the ASB, because they really never are. This team was in the race all year. So why didn't they win? I blame that on our lack of timely hitting in big series', which brings me to my next point:

-Ozzie Guillen. Like him or not, this team hasn't 'lost the fire' or isn't lacksadasical (sp?), whatever, you're not going to win games when you have a total of four hits. Don't tell me that you would rather have Jerry Manuel, because you know you're lying to yourself.

-and Finally, Kenny Williams. Like him or not, the guy wants to win. How that team last year didn't win the Central last season still just blows my mind, I mean, think about it - Colon, Loaiza, Buerhle, Marte, Gordon, Mags, Lee, Thomas, Everett, Robby Alomar. Kenny is not going to quit on this team - he will find the best values he can at when he sees the right time.

Now, whether or not you see these as good reasons for optimism, I dont know. Let me just restate that the Twins lost two out of three to us the first time we met last season, and they barely hit the ball in that series. I just don't like seeing all of the Guillen bashing, it's really unwarrented. We're not hitting. Hopefully we will start hitting soon.

That is all. :D:

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 09:58 PM
Ozzieball sucks. Go back to what works. Bang one off the pitching rubber and then start swinging for the fences. No more bunting. No more stealing bases. No more H&R. Station to station to bleachers.

We are killing ourselves with this smallball crap.

It isn't the lineup, it's the style of play...

Or else we need a new lineup to match this crap, but this team is not cut out for all this junk.

Swing for the fences, boys. Swing hard in case you hit it...

CWSGuy406
05-15-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ozzieball sucks. Go back to what works. Bang one off the pitching rubber and then start swinging for the fences. No more bunting. No more stealing bases. No more H&R. Station to station to bleachers.

We are killing ourselves with this smallball crap.

It isn't the lineup, it's the style of play...

Or else we need a new lineup to match this crap, but this team is not cut out for all this junk.

Swing for the fences, boys. Swing hard in case you hit it...

lol. With this thinking we'll be out of the race by May's end.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 10:02 PM
I think I know what the Sox problem is.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

(in batting cage)

*Hits ball six hundred feet*

:caballo :walnuts :crede :manos

"Wow! We should try that."

CubKilla
05-15-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ozzieball sucks. Go back to what works. Bang one off the pitching rubber and then start swinging for the fences. No more bunting. No more stealing bases. No more H&R. Station to station to bleachers.

We are killing ourselves with this smallball crap.

It isn't the lineup, it's the style of play...

Or else we need a new lineup to match this crap, but this team is not cut out for all this junk.

Swing for the fences, boys. Swing hard in case you hit it...

This worked real well tonight

TornLabrum
05-15-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ozzieball sucks. Go back to what works. Bang one off the pitching rubber and then start swinging for the fences. No more bunting. No more stealing bases. No more H&R. Station to station to bleachers.

We are killing ourselves with this smallball crap.

It isn't the lineup, it's the style of play...

Or else we need a new lineup to match this crap, but this team is not cut out for all this junk.

Swing for the fences, boys. Swing hard in case you hit it...

Voodoo, they flied out something like 13-14 times today. That isn't Ozzieball...that's the same crap they were doing when Manuel was manager. Ozzie was POed after the game, and rightly so. He was talking about making changes if they can't play the game right.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Voodoo, they flied out something like 13-14 times today. That isn't Ozzieball...that's the same crap they were doing when Manuel was manager. Ozzie was POed after the game, and rightly so. He was talking about making changes if they can't play the game right.

If he wants to make changes, then he needs to take the "Worthless Four" out of the lineup.

The "Worthless Four:"

:caballo :walnuts :crede :manos

CubKilla
05-15-2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
He was talking about making changes if they can't play the game right.

This team needs a complete overhaul if it's going to play baseball the way Ozzie wants this team to play baseball. Think JR will give KW the green light to start making the necessary changes?

:reinsy

"Only if it saves money in the immediate and long term."

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
lol. With this thinking we'll be out of the race by May's end.

Well, all this flash and smoke and mirrors sure as heck isn't doing anything.

Last night Rowand gets thrown out stealing second to end the game with Valentin, Ordonez and Thomas coming up.

Tell me it was the right decision...

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Well, all this flash and smoke and mirrors sure as heck isn't doing anything.

Last night Rowand gets thrown out stealing second to end the game with Valentin, Ordonez and Thomas coming up.

Tell me it was the right decision...

Actually, Valentin, Ordonez, and Gload were coming up. Thomas had already been lifted for a pinch-runner. I was worried about Gload being up there with the game on the line... ugh!

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
This team needs a complete overhaul if it's going to play baseball the way Ozzie wants this team to play baseball. Think JR will give KW the green light to start making the necessary changes?


That's my point. This team isn't built to play Ozzieball. Play to your strengths. This team has big boppers. Let them bop...

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Actually, Valentin, Ordonez, and Gload were coming up. Thomas had already been lifted for a pinch-runner. I was worried about Gload being up there with the game on the line... ugh!

Would have been nice to see him get the chance, no?

Nick@Nite
05-15-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Guys - I know this is the last thing you probably want to hear, but can we please just relax a bit? Guess what, last year at around this time we took two out of three from the Twins in our first series against them. The Twins scored a total of six runs that series, and in the two games they lost, they scored two runs.

What did that get us, taking the first series from Minny? It got us another second place finish.

Now, I'm not saying these games are meaningless, because obviously they are pretty big games, confidence wise, etc, etc. Hell, Sure, I would have wanted things to have ended differently these past two games, but you know what, we lost them. Move on. Beat them tommorow.

We're obviously not hitting right now, anyone can say that. But to blame this on Ozzie? We're not hitting - Uribe should be in the lineup, and Rowand should be out. But come on guys, some of you sound like the season is over and we should just give up. Because you know what, I know it, you all know it, that this team is and will get hot very soon.

Plain and simple, this team is struggling. But guys, relax. I was at the game and was probably just as pissed or even more so than you. But to be blaming people, Ozzie, Kenny Williams and such, for us losing right now? Come on, *****.

Have a beer, and yet again, I say relax. :gulp:

I agree... the North Koreans have yet to reach the gates of The Cell... it's the middle of May!

duke of dorwood
05-15-2004, 10:31 PM
He makes more contact than Vallentin and should bat up in the order when he plays.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Nick@Nite
I agree... the North Koreans have yet to reach the gates of The Cell... it's the middle of May!

Some of them have been spotted at the 35th street exit, however, so the Sox need to get this thing in gear.

duke of dorwood
05-15-2004, 10:32 PM
2 games-pitching good enuf to win-might be time to trade for some offense.

Jjav829
05-15-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That's my point. This team isn't built to play Ozzieball. Play to your strengths. This team has big boppers. Let them bop...

This is the problem with big boppers though. When they go cold, you end up with games like today and yesterday. Once those boppers swings start becoming long and they start getting too far under pitches and popping them up, you have no way of scoring. If you are reliant on the HR to do your scoring, then you better hope that you always have at least one slugger that is in a groove. If you don't, then things will get ugly and quick. Ozzie is letting them bop and they aren't doing it.

samram
05-15-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
This team needs a complete overhaul if it's going to play baseball the way Ozzie wants this team to play baseball. Think JR will give KW the green light to start making the necessary changes?

This is exactly right and it may be the reason so little was done in the offseason (besides the obvious money reasons). The payroll was basically taken up (for the level JR wanted to spend this season), so really minor changes could only be made. However, changes have to be made at some point because it wouldn't make any sense to bring in a manager who wants to play an aggressive style if the long-term team personnel is going to be right-handed slow streak hitters. If they don't start hitting and winning by the All-Star break, this team has firesale written all over it.

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
You are aware that this team did in fact lead the AL Central in September last year? Because you seem to have either forgotten that or just glossed over it because it didn't help your argument. And who do you think helped the Sox get to first place in September?

They were out of it, they started hitting because their was no pressure, and then the they got back into it because KC sucked, and then they bowed out when the pressure was put back on them. So you proved my point. They are not a pressure team. They suck when it matters, and thats waht you should pay players for. To come through when it matters. This team, INCLUDING maggs and frank, do not do that.

Jjav829
05-15-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
They were out of it, they started hitting because their was no pressure, and then the they got back into it because KC sucked, and then they bowed out when the pressure was put back on them. So you proved my point. They are not a pressure team. They suck when it matters, and thats waht you should pay players for. To come through when it matters. This team, INCLUDING maggs and frank, do not do that.

Ok, so we were out of the race, yet somehow in first place? We may be the only team in the history of sports to ever be in first place with less than a month to go in the regular season, but yet be "out of it."

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Ok, so we were out of the race, yet somehow in first place? We may be the only team in the history of sports to ever be in first place with less than a month to go in the regular season, but yet be "out of it."

In a way, the Sox were always out of it as long as Manuel was around.

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Ok, so we were out of the race, yet somehow in first place? We may be the only team in the history of sports to ever be in first place with less than a month to go in the regular season, but yet be "out of it."

Like I said, for most teams in the major leagues (look it up, nobody comes behind from 9 or 10 down. THATS A FACT). We were out of it at the all star break. In 99 percent of the cases, a team doesnt come back from 9 down at the all start break. We were lucky. KC SUCKS. We didn't get to the top. THe Royals sucked and came back to us. In most cases in the HISTORY of the Major Leagues, 9 games is 99 percent out of it, 10 games is all the way out of it, including 2001 and 2002. The players thought they were out of it, like they always do, so they start htiting with the pressure off. When the pressure was back on after a lucky Month of KC sucking like very few teams in the history of the MLB, they LET us back into the contest. At that point, as Bremer and Blyleven said, we FELL FLAT ON OUR FACES, when we had Minny on the ropes. Bottom line is we SUCK WHEN THE GAMES MATTER> that is my point. if you disagree, that's cool. BUT WE SUCK WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON> BOTTOM FRIGGIN LINE.

Minny lost FOURTEEN OF FRIGGIN SIXTEEN GAMES LAST YEAR, AND WE STILL FOUND A WAY TO LOSE THE DIVISION, even when we had them on the ropes.

That, my friend, is my point.

LongLiveFisk
05-15-2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The "Worthless Four:"

:caballo :walnuts :crede :manos

LMAO...."The Worthless Four"

I needed a good laugh tonight. Otherwise I might :whiner:

Thank you! :smile:

TornLabrum
05-15-2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
This team needs a complete overhaul if it's going to play baseball the way Ozzie wants this team to play baseball. Think JR will give KW the green light to start making the necessary changes?

:reinsy

"Only if it saves money in the immediate and long term."

If the changes lower payroll? Absoutely!

TornLabrum
05-15-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That's my point. This team isn't built to play Ozzieball. Play to your strengths. This team has big boppers. Let them bop...

Bull! (At least to the last statement.) This team is made up of a bunch of idiots who think that you can pull outside pitches for three-run homers with no one on base.

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Bull! (At least to the last statement.) This team is made up of a bunch of idiots who think that you can pull outside pitches for three-run homers with no one on base.

Oh, no arguments there. They need to get their heads out of their collective asses, but all of this running around and bunting and failure to take pitches, isn't helping.

CWSGuy406
05-15-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Oh, no arguments there. They need to get their heads out of their collective asses, but all of this running around and bunting and failure to take pitches, isn't helping.

Carlos Lee bunting got us one of our four hits tonight, lol. It's so sad that it come to that, but it's true, and I congradulate Lee for trying something different to get on base, rather than just hit the, as it's been said, three run homer with no one on base.'

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Carlos Lee bunting got us one of our four hits tonight, lol. It's so sad that it come to that, but it's true, and I congradulate Lee for trying something different to get on base, rather than just hit the, as it's been said, three run homer with no one on base.'

That again, is a completely different issue. I have no problem with that, but the other stuff (tons of sacrifices, steal attempts and hit and run) are starting to backfire big time. This team doesn't have the bat control or team speed to do it.

They do need to try and hit the ball the other way more if for no other reason than they aren't getting the pitches to pull and they need to change the way teams are pitching to them, but they should definietly start playing station to station ball, IMO.

mdep524
05-16-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That again, is a completely different issue. I have no problem with that, but the other stuff (tons of sacrifices, steal attempts and hit and run) are starting to backfire big time. This team doesn't have the bat control or team speed to do it.

They do need to try and hit the ball the other way more if for no other reason than they aren't getting the pitches to pull and they need to change the way teams are pitching to them, but they should definietly start playing station to station ball, IMO.

Hey voodoo, I totally agree wih you on the players-style mismatch, and I do think Ozzie calls for too many bunts overall, but I disagree that they should just settle for station to station ball. In the long run that will not get them anywhere (and if you need evidence look at all our playoff appearances from '01 through '03).

They need to just get different players in here that can do whatever it takes to win games consistently. Lee, Konerko, Rowand gotta go. I always give Crede somehat of a free pass because I really like him, he plays great defense and I think he can be a great hitter. But he's hitting no different than the horrific Lee-Konerko-Rowand trio, so he better pick it up soon to prove he doesn't deserve to be lumped with them.

The point is though, settling for station to station ball will expose the Sox to the same monster team slumps and lack of clutch "grinder" type wins that it takes to win a division and win in the playoffs. It's an old song and I am really sick and tired of it.

White_Sock
05-16-2004, 02:03 AM
Looks like this is the straw that broke the camel's back for the blind Ozzie Lovefest.

How in the hell can we not start a guy hitting .349?

Man I just got back from work to see this damn thread and it pisses me off (the thread itself doesn't piss me off, just the news it conveys). I worked all damn day expecting to come home to a White Sox Winner and I get this garbage. Uncrappingbelievable.

On the other hand, we can not give up on our team just yet as fans. That would be absolutely rediculous. They obviously thrive on fan support; just look at their record at home vs away in 2003 and 04 so far. I'm not saying we need to be bleacher bum loser supporters, but we need to keep the moral up. There is still hope all yea Sox fans. There's more than just hope. And to all who want to talk about this "year after year support only to be let down" garbage: It's a new year and we have great pitching. Last time I checked it was pitching that won championships. And we do have more than potential in the batters box too so be patient and hang in there.

batmanZoSo
05-16-2004, 02:15 AM
What are we now, two games over .500?

This team just makes me puke. One piddly little run off Nobody Q. Greisinger. Just keep bending over for the twins. That's the only thing at which you excel. You take it real good.

ma-gaga
05-16-2004, 08:11 AM
Last year the Twins had a rediculously easy August and September schedule. I haven't looked at it too carefully yet, but I know that the Twins match up against the Yankees at the end of this year.If the Sox are within striking distance they'll have a shot, because NYY owns the Twins. It's all about the schedule. The Twins are currently in a VERY EASY portion of their schedule.

KC had the same schedule as the Twins, but their starting pitching was horrid all of last year, and held together by Pena Paste and incredible RISP scoring production. I was worried that they would have the same 'magic' this year, especially after their first few games, but thankfully, they are playing to their talent level.

The Twins keep chugging. I don't quite get it either. They are so totally due for a letdown, or for their 'luck' to even out. But Gardenhire keeps them outperforming their pythagorian projections. They don't have glaring weaknesses in their lineup, and their pitching has held up. Except... Rivas sucks. I can't imagine rating any second baseman below him. (maybe Enrique Wilson) He hits worse than M.Hampton. He's hitting worse than Clayton did for you guys AND he's terrible in the field, he's the all around king of sucky suck suck. He's gotten lifted for a pinch hitter in the 7th inning by the 'defensive specialist, super utilityman' M.Cuddyer, who goes about 6'-2" and 220#. Not quite the ideal defensive gem. You're currently seeing him audition for next year's third base job.

I think there's a primary roster misconstruction with the W.Sox. I like Harris at 2nd. The 'Sucky 4' need to start taking pitches. If 2 of them to get their OBP to about 0.365, or their OPS to around 0.850ish, they'd be set. C.Lee will break out of his slump, he's done this the last 2 years, he starts out cold, everyone wants to bench his sorry ass, then he starts mauling the ball.

It's all about consistantly waiting for your pitch. If Carlos can't stop himself from swinging away, he's going to cost outs. Him and J.Jones are very similar players. Very streaky. Jones is in a contract year. heh. He's actually been quite amazing this year. He's basically a slightly worse version of Garrett Anderson. Hopefully the Twins WON'T give him a G.Anderson type contract.

To end this ramble, it's all about the starting pitching. If the Sox's holds up this year, they'll be there at the end. Maggs and F.Thomas can generate all the offense this team needs... If the guys around them can get on base.

:gulp: <--- coffee this morning. beer later.

ma-gaga
05-16-2004, 08:14 AM
BTW, these post game threads are great.

TornLabrum
05-16-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
BTW, these post game threads are great.

I agree wholeheartedly.

voodoochile
05-16-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
BTW, these post game threads are great.

Must have been tough not to type "this" instead of "these" :D:

starboy0
05-16-2004, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Whitesox029
...Meanwhile we can't beat the Twins in our home park. Is there a single person registered at WSI who thinks we can beat them in theirs?

We can. Last year we had a series in the garbage dome where we took two of three and another series at home where we swept them. We were 9-10 against them last year. It's not like we were 1-18. We *can* beat these guys but certainly not the way we've played these last two games. Actually the last seven games we've played them we have looked pitful. It started last year after we had won the first two the last time they were in Chicago and then we let them have the last two to earn only a split. Then they knock us out of first for good.

They really have the book on us and we're not adjusting in the least bit.

ma-gaga
05-16-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Must have been tough not to type "this" instead of "these" :D:

Nope. I like going thru all of them. The 'venting' threads, the 'damn these guys are good' threads. They are much better than the official game threads where people scream "FRANK " when he homers. Or "he sucks :angry: :angry: :angry: " when Billy Koch loads up the bases...

These threads are typically insightful and ... totally biased. The cornerstone of what this site is based on.

:)

Lip Man 1
05-16-2004, 12:19 PM
Unless I'm wrong the 'big four,' have been together since what 1999? I think the time has come this off season for a serious readjustement of the position players with some of those guys leaving.

We'll see what happens.

Lip

batmanZoSo
05-16-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Unless I'm wrong the 'big four,' have been together since what 1999? I think the time has come this off season for a serious readjustement of the position players with some of those guys leaving.

We'll see what happens.

Lip

We need Lee gone, Reed in left, and to acquire a center fielder who can really run em down out there.

We also need Valentin and Harris gone and to get a good second baseman. Harris has been a valuable part of this team, but he's not a starter. This is probably gonna be his best year.

It's time to get some speed, defense and singles hitters so we can avoid these long slumps. We have a lot more power and potential in our lineup than Minnesota but the reason they always seem to score enough to win and don't go in long hitting funks is because they don't rely on the home run. They can beat you in more ways than we can. It seems their runners make it to third on every base hit, score from second on singles and score from first on doubles. We need that ability. With all these slow footed power hitters we typically need more hits strung together to get the job done and that hurts our chances right there.

Whitesox029
05-16-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by starboy0
We can. Last year we had a series in the garbage dome where we took two of three and another series at home where we swept them. We were 9-10 against them last year. It's not like we were 1-18. We *can* beat these guys but certainly not the way we've played these last two games. Actually the last seven games we've played them we have looked pitful. It started last year after we had won the first two the last time they were in Chicago and then we let them have the last two to earn only a split. Then they knock us out of first for good.

They really have the book on us and we're not adjusting in the least bit.
Right now is what I meant of course. I don't know if we're not taking them seriously or if the fire just isn't there or what. It sure seems that way.

SoxxoS
05-16-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
We need Lee gone, Reed in left, and to acquire a center fielder who can really run em down out there.

We also need Valentin and Harris gone and to get a good second baseman. Harris has been a valuable part of this team, but he's not a starter. This is probably gonna be his best year.

It's time to get some speed, defense and singles hitters so we can avoid these long slumps. We have a lot more power and potential in our lineup than Minnesota but the reason they always seem to score enough to win and don't go in long hitting funks is because they don't rely on the home run. They can beat you in more ways than we can. It seems their runners make it to third on every base hit, score from second on singles and score from first on doubles. We need that ability. With all these slow footed power hitters we typically need more hits strung together to get the job done and that hurts our chances right there.

To say "Willie Harris" is not a starter is just assinine, IMO. He is one of the only one's playing like a starter at the moment.

At least wait until the All-Star break to give him a chance to fail...jeez.