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ndgt10
05-15-2004, 12:35 PM
Before last night's game, whitesox catchers had only thrown out 3 out of 28 baserunners. Let's examine a couple of reasons why this is:

1) Our pitchers absolutely suck at holding runner's on base. I have never seen a pitching staff so unconcerned about baserunners. A single is automatically a double, or a triple for the love of god. You would think that having 2 left handed starting pitchers would make the other time shy away from running, but it seems like they are mind readers and keep huge jumps all the time. If anybody could shed some light on this for me it would be greatly appreciated.

2) Alomar Jr. either needs to get an arm transplant, or call it quits. I dread seeing this guy out there whenever he is playing. He can't throw a snail out, and he sure as hell can't hit the damn ball; two things that Olivo can do pretty well.

3) The game's are fixed :o:

dickallen15
05-15-2004, 12:44 PM
I have never seen so many stolen bases without even a throw from the catcher. Alomar is bad at throwing out runners, but he has no chance most of the time. Even Olivo has no chance most of the time. They need to work on holding runners, and maybe quickening their deliveries to homeplate. This phenomenon isn't going to stop until the Sox prove they can stop it.

pearso66
05-15-2004, 12:51 PM
I fail to blame this on Sandy. Yes he doesnt have the arm to throw most out, but when the runner is 1/2 way to 2nd before the pitch is even delivered he has no chance. I dont know hwat happened, wasn't Buehrle quite good at holding people on last year? what happened? And SS really needs to pay attention to the runner, i wouldnt be suprised if 3/4 of all the stolen bases are off of him.

samram
05-15-2004, 02:07 PM
Schoeneweis has to be the worst lefty at holding runners on base. He's looking right at them and they still get great jumps and steal the base without a throw. The big problem may come when the team decides that the only chance the catchers have to throw someone out is to have the pitchers throw more fastballs, and they start giving up more hits.

Voice of Reason
05-15-2004, 02:23 PM
I only get to see the game on WGN but through the box scores I've noticed teams are running all over us, even with Olivo behind the plate. I recall a couple bases stolen with Olivo behind the plate and Buehrle on the mound, that should almost never happen. Does Olivo's defense behind the plate, or at least his arm, seem to have deteriorated?

DrummerGeorgefan
05-15-2004, 03:13 PM
With Nossek gone, does any of this stem from his ability to 1) steal signs and 2) tell the manager when teams are likely to run

iwannago
05-15-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
I only get to see the game on WGN but through the box scores I've noticed teams are running all over us, even with Olivo behind the plate. I recall a couple bases stolen with Olivo behind the plate and Buehrle on the mound, that should almost never happen. Does Olivo's defense behind the plate, or at least his arm, seem to have deteriorated?

If Olivo has lost his arm, its time to find a new catcher.

TaylorStSox
05-15-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
If Olivo has lost his arm, its time to find a new catcher. Once, I saw a movie about a guy that played ball with 1 arm. It's possible. How could a guy lose his arm though? You'd think he'd notice when it fell off.

iwannago
05-15-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
Once, I saw a movie about a guy that played ball with 1 arm. It's possible. How could a guy lose his arm though? You'd think he'd notice when it fell off.

You watched too many Arthur movies.

CubKilla
05-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
Does Olivo's defense behind the plate, or at least his arm, seem to have deteriorated?

Olivo's arm is fine and Sandy isn't to blame either. Even the best arms behind the plate would have trouble throwing out base stealers who are getting 3-5 step jumps before the ball is delivered towards home plate.

Voice of Reason
05-15-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by iwannago
If Olivo has lost his arm, its time to find a new catcher.

Yeah screw the fact that he has an 858 OPS!

jlh0023
05-15-2004, 05:34 PM
1. Buerhle is one of the best pitchers against baserunners....besides that, we aren't so good

2. Olivo has an incredible arm to the bag, too bad since he's not catching Buerhle, he never gets a chance to even try and throw anybody out

3. With Nossek gone, maybe the problem lies in the dugout.

jabrch
05-15-2004, 05:36 PM
8 of the SBs, I think, came by Brian Roberts in the three game series in Baltimore. Frankly, I think he just had a great read on our pitchers, and was on base a lot to steal. Other than that series, the numbers aren't quite so terrible.

I do agree that, particularly when Sandy is catching, our pitchers need to be more diligent holding runners on.

bigdommer
05-15-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by DrummerGeorgefan
With Nossek gone, does any of this stem from his ability to 1) steal signs and 2) tell the manager when teams are likely to run

I think that this has something to do with it. As much as I like Ozzie and Co. coming in with their energy, Jerry and Co. had a better cerebral grasp on the game. It just seems like holding runners has taken a back seat to a lot of other issues that had to be adressed. Ozzie came in wanting to run more, wanting to bunt more, improve the defense, and Cooper has had to work with a bullpen hodgepodge, Shoney's cutter, Garland's focus with two strikes, and working with the hopeless cause known as Dan Wright. Walker is busy helping guys like Crede, Rowand, and Konerko who constantly struggle. Holding runners has taken a back seat to a lot of other pressing issues. And most of the pressing issues have been shored up rather considerably. But I don't think we can expect Harold Baines to contribute much to slowing other team's running games down.

Railsplitter
05-15-2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by ndgt10
You would think that having 2 left handed starting pitchers would make the other time shy away from running

Actually, left handed pitchers don't have that much of an advantage. Lous Brock preferred to to steal off left handers because he could could see four physical indicators of where the pitcher was going. I can rember hands, eyes, and belt buckle, but the fourth escapes me.

DrummerGeorgefan
05-15-2004, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Railsplitter
Actually, left handed pitchers don't have that much of an advantage. Lous Brock preferred to to steal off left handers because he could could see four physical indicators of where the pitcher was going. I can rember hands, eyes, and belt buckle, but the fourth escapes me.

It may have been leading foot...thats what my coach always told me to look for....and I have speed like PK