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SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:33 PM
Let me just say that I am not one to jump the gun, especially this early in the season...HOWEVER...

What the hell has Greg Walker done? This team looks lost at the plate 2 out of 3 games. That one 15 run outburst makes the overall averages look pretty good...if you score 15 and then 1 and 2, it's 18 runs in 3 games. Pretty good average...6.0 runs per. But obviously that is not what you want.

It's unfortunate, but This guy is going to keep his job b/c we have fired too many hitting coaches in the past 3 years...but he hasn't shown me JACK since he started. These guys swinging for the fences is getting absolutely nausiating.

Plus, a 50 year veteran, Sandy Alomar, obviously hasn't taken bunting practice in a long time, b/c he looked like a H.S. rookie out there with those "attempts."

What does anyone have to say about Greg Walker?

voodoochile
05-14-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Let me just say that I am not one to jump the gun, especially this early in the season...HOWEVER...

What the hell has Greg Walker done? This team looks lost at the plate 2 out of 3 games. That one 15 run outburst makes the overall averages look pretty good...if you score 15 and then 1 and 2, it's 18 runs in 3 games. Pretty good average...6.0 runs per. But obviously that is not what you want.

It's unfortunate, but This guy is going to keep his job b/c we have fired too many hitting coaches in the past 3 years...but he hasn't shown me JACK since he started. These guys swinging for the fences is getting absolutely nausiating.

Plus, a 50 year veteran, Sandy Alomar, obviously hasn't taken bunting practice in a long time, b/c he looked like a H.S. rookie out there with those "attempts."

What does anyone have to say about Greg Walker?

Wasn't there a 6 in the middle you forgot about?

SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:36 PM
Oh my mistake, I forgot yesterday was a doubleheader.

That is still 24 runs...6 runs per game...and 1 freakin win. Proves my point. Now if we would have consistantly scored 6 runs, it's 4 wins.

voodoochile
05-14-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Oh my mistake, I forgot yesterday was a doubleheader.

That is still 24 runs...6 runs per game...and 1 freakin win. Proves my point. Now if we would have consistantly scored 6 runs, it's 4 wins.

no, still wrong... two wins.

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Oh my mistake, I forgot yesterday was a doubleheader.

That is still 24 runs...6 runs per game...and 1 freakin win. Proves my point. Now if we would have consistantly scored 6 runs, it's 4 wins.

That's why the Twins win so much. You never see them beating a team by tons of runs. Like FHQwgads said the other day in the caht. The Twins score 3-6 runs every game and give their team a chance to win.

Our last four losses have come when the opponent scores 4, 4, 1, 3. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????????

That should be four wins.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:39 PM
Fire Walker and bring back Walt Hriniak.

SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
no, still wrong... two wins.

I am pre-drinking right now, and I am ticked off, so I am not thinking clearly. Point being, it should be 4 wins.

You average 6.0 runs per game, you hold the opposition to 0,1,5,3...that equals 9 runs.

We scored 24. They scored 9. We won two games.

:chunks

voodoochile
05-14-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I am pre-drinking right now, and I am ticked off, so I am not thinking clearly. Point being, it should be 4 wins.

You average 6.0 runs per game, you hold the opposition to 0,1,5,3...that equals 9 runs.

We scored 24. They scored 9. We won two games.

:chunks

That happens. That's why you playu 162 games.

SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That happens. That's why you playu 162 games.

We have played 162 games in the past, and using the RS/RA formula...we should have won the division the past 4 years...and that hasn't worked out so well.

Daver
05-14-2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
We have played 162 games in the past, and using the RS/RA formula...we should have won the division the past 4 years...and that hasn't worked out so well.

And that is why all stats lie..........


If you live by stats alone,you also die by them,the reality is that numbers do not actually play the game,the players do.

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Daver
And that is why all stats lie..........


If you live by stats alone,you also die by them,the reality is that numbers do not actually play the game,the players do.

Exactly Daver, and our players haven't played it well the last couple years. They are not pressure players. And unfortunately, it doesn't look like that will change this year.

Kroozah
05-15-2004, 09:11 AM
So, then if the Sox team ERA is 4.22 like it is currently, the Sox must score 4.23. :)

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Kroozah
So, then if the Sox team ERA is 4.22 like it is currently, the Sox must score 4.23. :)

what about the unearned runs?

Kroozah
05-15-2004, 09:18 AM
Forgot about that, good point. Make that 5 runs, we need to score 6.

voodoochile
05-15-2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Kroozah
Forgot about that, good point. Make that 5 runs, we need to score 6.

All the way to 6? 5.01 should do it, no? :)

Railsplitter
05-15-2004, 09:26 AM
I am wondering about the Sox hitters. Certainly, there should be somebody to take Lee and Konerko aside (sepreately) and say. "Don't try put every ball over the fence. Just try to make contact. With your strength, the homers should take care of themselves."

:notwinks

A. Cavatica
05-15-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
All the way to 6? 5.01 should do it, no? :)

That's a darn good idea. We should teach our players that if they score the fifth run of a game, they round home and continue a fraction of the way up the first base line...just to be on the safe side. :D:

vegyrex
05-15-2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Fire Walker and bring back Walt Hriniak.

Sounds good to me.

Johnny Mostil
05-15-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS

Plus, a 50 year veteran, Sandy Alomar,

It only seems like he's played 50 . . .

samram
05-15-2004, 01:44 PM
The hell with Hriniak, bring back Charlie Lau!

The results have been very similar for four years no matter who the hitting coach has been. Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with these guys just being very similar streak hitters, who happen to streak at the same time. Someone may want to tell Konerko that is legal for pitchers to throw pitches that move and break, and he may want to learn to hit one.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by samram
The hell with Hriniak, bring back Charlie Lau!

The results have been very similar for four years no matter who the hitting coach has been. Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with these guys just being very similar streak hitters, who happen to streak at the same time. Someone may want to tell Konerko that is legal for pitchers to throw pitches that move and break, and he may want to learn to hit one.

There must be a breakdown somehwere in the Sox minor league affiliates. It seems as though the players who have come up through the Sox system never learned how to be good contact hitters. Maggs might be the only hitter in the Sox lineup who is considered a good contact hitter. Everyone else either hits home runs or strikes out.

Frank at least has a good enough understanding of the strike zone that he will take a walk. But players like Lee, Konerko, Crede, Valentin, and some others just don't know how to focus on getting base hits. Konerko and Valentin came from outside the system, so there may be a problem in the scouting department, as well. The Sox seem to accquire players by trade that exhibit similar behavior.

duke of dorwood
05-15-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
Exactly Daver, and our players haven't played it well the last couple years. They are not pressure players. And unfortunately, it doesn't look like that will change this year.

That's because they are mostly the same players because

:KW

took the winter off

jeremyb1
05-15-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Daver
And that is why all stats lie..........


If you live by stats alone,you also die by them,the reality is that numbers do not actually play the game,the players do.

Hehe. Well the point of that statitic (pathagorean W-L record) Daver is to see how closely a team's pathagorean record matches the team's actual record and then make assumptions based on that. The fact that pathagorean wins don't match actual wins in many cases is the entire purpose of the statitistic so I completely fail to understand how that discredits it.

Paulwny
05-15-2004, 02:12 PM
I just finished looking at the al batting stats on espn. It appears we are decent contact hitters who will take walks. We make contact but they don't fall in.
6th lowest in strikeouts
6th highest in walks
11th in hits

gosox41
05-15-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
There must be a breakdown somehwere in the Sox minor league affiliates. It seems as though the players who have come up through the Sox system never learned how to be good contact hitters. Maggs might be the only hitter in the Sox lineup who is considered a good contact hitter. Everyone else either hits home runs or strikes out.

Frank at least has a good enough understanding of the strike zone that he will take a walk. But players like Lee, Konerko, Crede, Valentin, and some others just don't know how to focus on getting base hits. Konerko and Valentin came from outside the system, so there may be a problem in the scouting department, as well. The Sox seem to accquire players by trade that exhibit similar behavior.

Funny but this discussion further proves why Beane is a much better GM then KW. He sees a hole, he fixes it. Other then Thomas, who KW wanted to get rid of (is he too productive?) every player you mentioned above is here because of KW. KW was head of the farm system when Crede was a 6 year minor leaguer. KW chose to overpay PK thus making him untradeable. KW chose to sign Lee to an extenstion and overpaying for him (though not as much as PK. KW also decided to bring back Valentin at the inflated salary of $5 mill. per.

Now keeping in mind that it was last offseason that KW was talking about getting these 'grinders'. It was also last offseason that KW picked up Jose's option and signed Lee to a two year $25 mill. contract.


KW had the perfect opportunity to make this a productive winter. He could have saved $12 mill by dumping JOse and trade Lee (who has more trade bait then PK.) He could have probably traded Lee for a starting pitcher, but right now the Sox would also have 2 less .230 hitters in the lineup making a combined $12 mill while also having a stronger pitching staff.

But, no, KW stuck with the status quo. This is why the Sox are going through the same offensive slumber they did in 2003, 2002, and 2001. THe starting pitching has been good enough. The inconssistent offese has stunk it up.

If you look at the Sox batting order, after Thomas in the number 4 spot the averages fall off a cliff for Konerko, Valentin, Crede, and Lee. All those guys are in the .230-.240 range. Want to guess whee most of these guys were last year at this time...this level or in PK's case a whole lot worse.


Bob