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Viva Magglio
05-14-2004, 11:14 PM
Why do we have to be the only team in Major League Baseball that has a 100% kicked in the balls rate?

A.T. Money
05-14-2004, 11:16 PM
Minejkflkjfslk was still out on strikes. Changed the whole outcome of the inning, then the game. Of course, the strike zones weren't the same for both teams.

This is typical Minnesota. They get all these gifts, and they ALWAYS capitalize...everytime!

Load of crap.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Viva Magglio
Why do we have to be the only team in Major League Baseball that has a 100% kicked in the balls rate?

:sandy

"Because I don't know how to bunt."

:walnuts

"And I can't hit the ball."

:ozzie

"And I don't have a clue."

:hurt

"Maybe I should've taken that LA job."

balboner
05-14-2004, 11:18 PM
Tonight's game showed how far Guillen has to go to be an effective manager. Gardenhire did all the little things like shuffle his line-up, insert Blanco in the 9th inning, and get the easy out with Valentin in. The last week of managing has been incredibly poor by Guillen.

chidonez
05-14-2004, 11:18 PM
And Marte can't throw a strike.

OurBitchinMinny
05-14-2004, 11:18 PM
I dont even know what to say. Ozzie managed a brutal ball game. Marte is awful in pressure situations. Why leave a 40 year old catcher into bunt and have him make a pathetic attempt at a bunt with 2 strikes? I give harris credit, that was a pretty solid last at bat, but he should have swung, but this loss goes soley on guillen and marte. Another nice effort by schoeny wasted by this pen.

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:19 PM
I don't know why any of us should be surprised. It's the same old crap every year.

They are clutch, as proved by two and a half years of clutch baseball.

We are not. April was luck. If we would have continued, that would be one thing.

Our hitting lost us yet another game. The fourth straight loss due to crappy hitting. The opposing team has won those games with 4, 4, 1, and 3 runs. All of those pitchers we faced sucked. Our hitting is terrible, and hitting one month in the year when the weather is awesome will not win divisions.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Tonight's game showed how far Guillen has to go to be an effective manager. Gardenhire did all the little things like shuffle his line-up, insert Blanco in the 9th inning, and get the easy out with Valentin in. The last week of managing has been incredibly poor by Guillen.

Ozzie has looked really bad over the past week. However, it is only his first year, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he also stands behind his players makes him a definite improvement over Jerry Manuel.

Win1ForMe
05-14-2004, 11:19 PM
This was a statement game. The statement?

"Don't expect us to win anything this year."

Seriously, the Sox always find ways to lose to the Twins. This is why we can't ever beat them.

Nard
05-14-2004, 11:20 PM
If the umps don't screw Marte over with the first walk, we wouldn't have even had to play the bottom of the ninth.

But ya still gotta blame him for the second walk and the horrid pitching that happened after that.

Yeah ya gotta love that absolutely phenomial clutch Twinkies hitting. The two walks and a horrid Marte pitch had absolutely nothing to do with anything whatsoever.

What other 18 games?!?!

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:20 PM
Alomar should've sat for Timo, then you bring in your MUCH BETTER CATCHER IN THE FREAKING GAME SHOULD THE GAME GO TO EXTRA INNIGS.

And why does Valentin face a lefty when Uribe who's hitting a mere .370 is on the god dam bench?

Ozzie is better than Manuel, but he's pretty bad at x's and o's. He's not helping us win at all.

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
I dont even know what to say. Ozzie managed a brutal ball game. Marte is awful in pressure situations. Why leave a 40 year old catcher into bunt and have him make a pathetic attempt at a bunt with 2 strikes? I give harris credit, that was a pretty solid last at bat, but he should have swung, but this loss goes soley on guillen and marte. Another nice effort by schoeny wasted by this pen.

ON THE PITCHERS!!!??!??!??!?!?!?!?!?!

Are you kidding. We gave up 3 runs to an offense that scores more than five runs a game.

We lost because our offense sucks. If we take advantage in MANY early game situation, we win the game.

We did not have ONE hit with a RISP against our RIVAL, who has OWNED us for the past three years. Pathetic.

kittle42
05-14-2004, 11:21 PM
I agree with what everyone is saying. And for once, I do NOT believe this is a "the sky is falling" situation. This is our team.

Patrick134
05-14-2004, 11:21 PM
marte got screwed. mientkiwicz and jones are 2 tough hitters to have to try and get 4 strikes against them.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:22 PM
Memo to Ozzie Guillen:

Get Carlos Lee out of the number five spot. Because of him, Frank Thomas was walked three times tonight. He's now on pace to walk over 170 times this season. What the hell is that?

Frank hasn't seen a decent pitch to hit since the dinosaurs were here. Good grief!

Viva Magglio
05-14-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Minejkflkjfslk was still out on strikes. Changed the whole outcome of the inning, then the game. Of course, the strike zones weren't the same for both teams.

This is typical Minnesota. They get all these gifts, and they ALWAYS capitalize...everytime!

Load of crap.

INSTANT REPLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not give a crap how long instant replay delays games. I do not give a crap how many times a play has to be reviewed or how many plays in a game have to be reviewed. I do not give a crap about this "human element" crap. BRING INSTANT REPLAY TO MLB NOW!!!

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
I agree with what everyone is saying. And for once, I do NOT believe this is a "the sky is falling" situation. This is our team.

Thats right. This is our team. The one that has gotten torn up by the Twins the past two seasons.

hose
05-14-2004, 11:23 PM
5 hits ain't going to win you many ball games.

elrod
05-14-2004, 11:24 PM
I don't think the Mientkiewicz call was wrong. It was close but I think it was outside. However, once Guillen saw Marte lose his composure he should have taken him out. Four straight balls to Hunter? Get him out of there! Shingo should have pitched to Jones. No guarantee the outcome would have been better but Marte was clearly lost.

OurBitchinMinny
05-14-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox7
ON THE PITCHERS!!!??!??!??!?!?!?!?!?!

Are you kidding. We gave up 3 runs to an offense that scores more than five runs a game.

We lost because our offense sucks. If we take advantage in MANY early game situation, we win the game.

We did not have ONE hit with a RISP against our RIVAL, who has OWNED us for the past three years. Pathetic.

You gotta be kidding me. How the hell can you stick up for marte today? Schoenweis pitched a good game and left with a 2-1 lead. The offense sucks now, yeah. Part of it is a slump and part of it is ozzie's moronic managing. But when when you get the ball with a lead, A GOOD BULLPEN HOLDS IT. The white sox dont come back, they just dont, which is why when the bullpen gets a lead they damn well better hold it or the sox will lose. Terrible situational hitting in the ninth, I agree with that. But if you think marte is an elite pitcher, youre nuts. Throw an F'ing strike before you get to a full count and groove one down the middle. There was a reason no other teams wanted him. He is not a pressure pitcher. This team needs to get its stuff together or its gonna be a long year.

Lip Man 1
05-14-2004, 11:25 PM
Another ugly game.

From the brutal weather, to the offense, to the bullpen, to Willie getting overpowered again in the 9th inning (just like in that game against Tampa Bay).

That pitch to me looked like a strike on the corner for what it's worth. Sure Marte was squeezed but that doesn't explain what happened afterwards.

Tough, tough loss.

Numbers if anybody wants them...Sox have now lost 3 of their last 4 one run games. This is the 5th time the bullpen has blown a lead in the 7th inning or later this season. The Sox wound up losing 3 of those games. Sox have now lost 6 of their last 9. And in games where the Sox hold the opponent to three runs or less they are 10-5.

Hope for better things tomorrow.

And I do agree that some of Ozzie's moves the past week have been strange ones.

Lip

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
You gotta be kidding me. How the hell can you stick up for marte today? Schoenweis pitched a good game and left with a 2-1 lead. The offense sucks now, yeah. Part of it is a slump and part of it is ozzie's moronic managing. But when when you get the ball with a lead, A GOOD BULLPEN HOLDS IT. The white sox dont come back, they just dont, which is why when the bullpen gets a lead they damn well better hold it or the sox will lose. Terrible situational hitting in the ninth, I agree with that. But if you think marte is an elite pitcher, youre nuts. Throw an F'ing strike before you get to a full count and groove one down the middle. There was a reason no other teams wanted him. He is not a pressure pitcher. This team needs to get its stuff together or its gonna be a long year.

If you hit the ball, that inning doesnt matter. Good teams take advantage of scoring opportunities, liek the Twins had. We got a gift in the 8th and 9th with leadoff runners on. Neither got to 2nd. We had no hits with RISP. Marte's inning shouldnt have matterd. I'm not defending him. He sucked. He shouldn't have. But its the offenses fault we lost.

4,4,1,3 runs for the opposition in our last four losses. PATHETIC.

chidonez
05-14-2004, 11:27 PM
We may have 18 more against the Twinkies, but it concerns me that we make so many mistakes. Lead-off walks, stealing off the pitcher, swinging for the fences, etc... I'm not just talking about today's game. I still think the fundamentals could be better.

TheRockinMT
05-14-2004, 11:27 PM
Yes, Ozzie's inexpereince is tempered by the fact the players like him and seem to respond to his leadership. That goes a long ways, but Ozzie has clearly been out managed more than once this season. I know it's a learning experience, but he needs to do it quickly for this team to compete with the Twins. We need the next two wins to just be even with those clowns of the Twin Cities. I question some of Ozzie's player moves and his strategy to pick up that one run.

Fungo
05-14-2004, 11:28 PM
Whether Sandy bunted on his own or was told to do so with two strikes, that was absolutely pathetic. Sending Rowand was another dumb mistake especially when there is a guy on deck in Jose Valentin who has somewhat of a flare for the dramatic. Willie's strikeout is fine, it was a good at-bat, but don't compound it with a caught stealing. Pass the bat to Jose. A home run wins the game there.

Ozzie was severely out-managed in this one.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
You gotta be kidding me. How the hell can you stick up for marte today? Schoenweis pitched a good game and left with a 2-1 lead. The offense sucks now, yeah. Part of it is a slump and part of it is ozzie's moronic managing. But when when you get the ball with a lead, A GOOD BULLPEN HOLDS IT. The white sox dont come back, they just dont, which is why when the bullpen gets a lead they damn well better hold it or the sox will lose. Terrible situational hitting in the ninth, I agree with that. But if you think marte is an elite pitcher, youre nuts. Throw an F'ing strike before you get to a full count and groove one down the middle. There was a reason no other teams wanted him. He is not a pressure pitcher. This team needs to get its stuff together or its gonna be a long year.

I wanted Marte out when there were men on first and second. He clearly did not have it. Then whattya know, Shingo comes in and is perfect.

Patrick134
05-14-2004, 11:28 PM
Of course marte getting squeezed matters, he had to try to get 4 strikes past quality hitters, while nathan got a 3-2 gift, that was the whole ballgame there.

SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Viva Magglio
INSTANT REPLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not give a crap how long instant replay delays games. I do not give a crap how many times a play has to be reviewed or how many plays in a game have to be reviewed. I do not give a crap about this "human element" crap. BRING INSTANT REPLAY TO MLB NOW!!!

Although I am beyond pissed, Instant Replay has no place in MLB. It all evens out....

You know what else is evening out...our "1 run tally." It was only a matter of time.

This is the first game Ozzie got absolutely bent over. The lineup is F'd. Uribe needs to play everyday. Konerko CANNOT BE IN THE LINEUP AGAINST A GUY HE WAS 1-29 GOING INTO THE GAME. That is the biggest joke I have seen. Jose Valentin can't hit lefties yet...he isn't comfortable...so why not pinch hit Uribe?

The pitching is fine. I am not worried about it. You give up 3 runs, you better win 85% of the damn games. This is getting rediculous. Scoring 2 runs on a suck ass pitcher like Kyle Lohse is a freaking joke. The guy sucks.

I am concerned about Marte's velocity. He was maxing out (on a slow gun) at 88 today. That is scary. I don't know what the hell it is about our pitchers losing velocity. It's a wonder of the world.

We better take the next two, that is all I got to say.

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
Yes, Ozzie's inexpereince is tempered by the fact the players like him and seem to respond to his leadership. That goes a long ways, but Ozzie has clearly been out managed more than once this season. I know it's a learning experience, but he needs to do it quickly for this team to compete with the Twins. We need the next two wins to just be even with those clowns of the Twin Cities. I question some of Ozzie's player moves and his strategy to pick up that one run.

The hitters sure aren't responding to his leadership. We got lucky in APril with 1 run wins despite crappy offense. Now we have a crappy offense and no luck (see Marte getting squeezed) and we are losing.

Win1ForMe
05-14-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
I agree with what everyone is saying. And for once, I do NOT believe this is a "the sky is falling" situation. This is our team.

Yup, that's why I would strongly re-consider resigning Maggs. Keeping him basically eliminates any financial flexibility we may have, locking is in to a perennial 2nd place team. Kenny can tinker and add players here and there, but as long as we have Thomas, Maggs, Lee, Konerko, and Crede (i.e. righty power hitters) as the core, all you're doing is polishing a turd.

CWSGuy406
05-14-2004, 11:31 PM
I'm really getting concerned at our inability to throw baserunners out on the basepaths. It sucks - Sandy almost couldn't throw out Stewart at friggin' third. We need to get our act together and take the next two.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:32 PM
I know that Ozzie is hesitant to alter the lineup, but something needs to be done about this mess. Here are my suggestions:

1. As mentioned above, bench Carlos for a few games.

2. Put Frank and Maggs back in their traditional spots.

3. Put Uribe in the number five spot, Valentin in the six spot, and Lee in the number two spot once he's back in the lineup.

4. Stop playing Konerko against righties.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Yup, that's why I would strongly re-consider resigning Maggs. Keeping him basically eliminates any financial flexibility we may have, locking is in to a perennial 2nd place team. Kenny can tinker and add players here and there, but as long as we have Thomas, Maggs, Lee, Konerko, and Crede (i.e. righty power hitters) as the core, all you're doing is polishing a turd.

Some of that is true, but Maggs is not holding this team down. It's.....

Lee
Konerko
Koch
Valentin

None of them are worth a crap. Valentin should play with Willie in center, but after this year, he's gonna go. I don't like paying 5 million for half a shortstop.

chidonez
05-14-2004, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
I'm really getting concerned at our inability to throw baserunners out on the basepaths. It sucks - Sandy almost couldn't throw out Stewart at friggin' third. We need to get our act together and take the next two.

They're stealing off the pitchers...

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I know that Ozzie is hesitant to alter the lineup, but something needs to be done about this mess. Here are my suggestions:

1. As mentioned above, bench Carlos for a few games.

2. Put Frank and Maggs back in their traditional spots.

3. Put Uribe in the number five spot, Valentin in the six spot, and Lee in the number two spot once he's back in the lineup.

4. Stop playing Konerko against righties.

Frank needs to bat third right now. This cannot go on. He gets NOTHING to hit. I don't know what else to say. You gotta be the biggest moron on the planet not to see that.

Frank
Maggs

Like it used to be.

hose
05-14-2004, 11:34 PM
I don't understand why you put a guy in the line up that is life time 1 for 30 against Lohse.

By starting Konerko , Lohse was able to intentionally hit Carlos in order to pitch around him, then he got Konerko to grounded out with the bases loaded to end the 1st inning.

SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
I don't like paying 5 million for half a shortstop.

Yeah, but KW and JR do. He is the Sox golden boy for some reason, so I wouldn't count out resigning him just yet...we still have no viable options in the minors.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Frank needs to bat third right now. This cannot go on. He gets NOTHING to hit. I don't know what else to say. You gotta be the biggest moron on the planet not to see that.

Frank
Maggs

Like it used to be.

I completely agree. I just wish Ozzie could see what's going on.

The Cheat
05-14-2004, 11:35 PM
Ozzie got outmanaged in every fase of the game today -- Starting with a starting line up that went

L
L
R
R
R
R
R
R
R

------------------------

Even having Alomar in the game -- Baserunners have made him look stupid all year --

PR for frank after there was 2 outs

Not bringing in Uribe to replace Jose when a Lefty pitcher is called on.

--------------------------

Damaso Marte now leads the Majors in Blown Saves.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS


We better take the next two, that is all I got to say.

If we don't we're stuck in second for a long time.

We're gonna lose 3/4 in the Dome, that's a given. So we have to hope they go in a slump.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Yeah, but KW and JR do. He is the Sox golden boy for some reason, so I wouldn't count out resigning him just yet...we still have no viable options in the minors.

We have that suck ass Juan Uribe hitting .370.

If only he could play short.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by The Cheat


L
L
R
R
R
R
R
R
R



That's KW's fault.

SoxxoS
05-14-2004, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
We have that suck ass Juan Uribe hitting .370.

If only he could play short.

.370 a fifth into the season.

The season isn't over yet...they guy has historically been a good starter...I wouldn't pencil him into anything just yet.

RKMeibalane
05-14-2004, 11:52 PM
:hurt

"I didn't see a single pitch to hit the entire game. Even the ball I hit to center was on the corner."

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"Perhaps a change in the lineup is necessary."

:hurt

"Maybe, but I like hitting in the cleanup spot."

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"Then other changes must be implemented."

:caballo

*GULP*

mdep524
05-14-2004, 11:54 PM
Just in case there was ever any question: SMART baseball players beat so-called "talented" baseball players, thus the Twins are a better team than the White Sox. This story hasn't changed since 2001, folks, and unless we make some changes it won't any time soon.

I submit to you the 9th ininng:

-Rowand swings AT THE FIRST PITCH and meekly grounds out to SS (thank God Guzman flubbed it.)

-Alomar fails at THREE bunt attempts.

-Harris has a good at bat that gets me excited, then lets a pitch sail right down the middle with a terrible base stealer in motion. Game over.

Good night. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
.370 a fifth into the season.

The season isn't over yet...they guy has historically been a good starter...I wouldn't pencil him into anything just yet.

I wouldn't pencil anyone in the lineup over him.

He's clearly a better fielder than Valentin, and a better hitter even if he falls of dramatically because he can hit lefties and righties.

Brian26
05-14-2004, 11:54 PM
Great stuff!

:)

ChiSox7
05-14-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
Just in case there was ever any question: SMART baseball players beat so-called "talented" baseball players, thus the Twins are a better team than the White Sox. This story hasn't changed since 2001, folks, and unless we make some changes it won't any time soon.

I submit to you the 9th ininng:

-Rowand swings AT THE FIRST PITCH and meekly grounds out to SS (thank God Guzman flubbed it.)

-Alomar fails at THREE bunt attempts.

-Harris has a good at bat that gets me excited, then lets a pitch sail right down the middle with a terrible base stealer in motion. Game over.

Good night. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Yep, and we have some of the dumbest, worst clutch hitters in the league. So frustrating.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
Just in case there was ever any question: SMART baseball players beat so-called "talented" baseball players, thus the Twins are a better team than the White Sox. This story hasn't changed since 2001, folks, and unless we make some changes it won't any time soon.

I submit to you the 9th ininng:

-Rowand swings AT THE FIRST PITCH and meekly grounds out to SS (thank God Guzman flubbed it.)

-Alomar fails at THREE bunt attempts.

-Harris has a good at bat that gets me excited, then lets a pitch sail right down the middle with a terrible base stealer in motion. Game over.

Good night. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Good points, but they're not better than us. Better means more talented. Compared to them, the Sox are complete idiots. Even down to the manager it was just embarrasing how we got beat. They're ten times smarter than the Sox, but not better. If you think they have more talent, god help you.

batmanZoSo
05-14-2004, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
:hurt

"I didn't see a single pitch to hit the entire game. Even the ball I hit to center was on the corner."

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"Perhaps a change in the lineup is necessary."

:hurt

"Maybe, but I like hitting in the cleanup spot."

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"Then other changes must be implemented."

:caballo

*GULP*

Oh my god is that funny.

I am in your debt.

Nard
05-14-2004, 11:59 PM
Smart?

They got a free lead handed to them on a platter by Marte. The stupidest team in baseball could've taken advantage.

ChiSox7
05-15-2004, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Nard
Smart?

They got a free lead handed to them on a platter by Marte. The stupidest team in baseball could've taken advantage.

They gave us two freebies with leadoff walks and error in the 8th and 9th. Twins got the clutch hit, we didn't. If stupid teams could do what the twins did, and we failed to get the big hit, I hate to think what we are.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 12:03 AM
I hope something is being done about this. This loss is not the end of the world, but the Sox need to realize that losing games to division rivals is the main reason why they haven't been able to get back to the post-season. That needs to change, and soon.

batmanZoSo
05-15-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Nard
Smart?

They got a free lead handed to them on a platter by Marte. The stupidest team in baseball could've taken advantage.

Not the team that plays half their games here:

http://comiskey-park-chicago.visit-chicago-illinois.com/comiskey-park-white-sox.jpg

Mammoo
05-15-2004, 12:05 AM
I think it's pretty obvious who's the better team. :whiner:

fed ex 4 pasqua
05-15-2004, 12:08 AM
Why not Uribe for Frank with no outs, rather than Gload with two?
Sandy bunting with two strikes?
:angry:

OEO Magglio
05-15-2004, 12:20 AM
pk and carlos need to be split up in the lineup. Or better yet one of them needs to go. I'm tired of there being two automatic outs batting in the middle of the lineup, it's absolutely ridiculous. Frank is always on base and can never score cause the sox have two guys right behind him that don't know how to hit. This game was just frusterating, and I'm absolutely tired of this inconsistant lineup. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Man Soo Lee
05-15-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Yup, that's why I would strongly re-consider resigning Maggs. Keeping him basically eliminates any financial flexibility we may have, locking is in to a perennial 2nd place team. Kenny can tinker and add players here and there, but as long as we have Thomas, Maggs, Lee, Konerko, and Crede (i.e. righty power hitters) as the core, all you're doing is polishing a turd.

I agree with your point about the core of the team, but I don't think letting Maggs go is the way to fix it. He's a heavy favorite to be the most productive of those hitters over the next five years.

All of the others could be gone by the end of 2005 at the latest and I'm sure JR won't mind spending a little money to give next year's team better balance.

fed ex 4 pasqua
05-15-2004, 02:18 AM
Maggs for pitching, freddie garcia, and whatever it will take for carlos beltran. i love magglio, but these would be the best moves mr. agressive colud make

ndgt10
05-15-2004, 07:29 AM
I agree pretty much with everything that has been said in this thread.

However, one thing that I have not seen mentioned is the fact that the Sox always bunt when the leadoff man gets on base. What the hell is that? We have enough trouble hitting with RISP. I would think that giving the other team an out for one stinking base is a gift to the opponent. Hell, I would be one happy man if every other team bunted after getting the leadoff man on. :gulp:

A. Cavatica
05-15-2004, 10:37 AM
OK, let's recap.

Without question, KW needed to break up the four consecutive slow, righthanded DH/1B/OF types in our lineup. He might not have been able to give Konerko away, but he could have gotten peak value and cut payroll by dealing Lee or Ordonez, and he screwed up. Grade: F.

KW didn't acquire a leadoff hitter, either, but the team has been bailed out (through 34 games) by a stunning performance by Uribe and a good performance by Harris. I'm not about to give KW credit just yet, because Uribe will surely come back to Earth. Grade: Incomplete.

Defensively, the team's been solid. Harris and Uribe have been very good, Crede and Olivo have improved. The fact that Rowand is not a natural CF has caught up to him a bit, but that hasn't been and won't be the team's biggest problem. Grade: B+.

KW looks very smart about Scott Schoeneweis, and very stupid about Danny Wright. The net result is our rotation is still four deep, although nobody's pitching like a #1. Grade: B-.

KW has put together a hodgepodge of a bullpen, with too many specialists and no dependable closer. Grade: C-.

Ozzie had a great first month where the team realized he wasn't Jerry Manuel. Now the flaws (inexperience, over-aggressiveness, indecisiveness) are coming out in spades. The team's 19-15 and I still think they're headed for 77-85. Grade: C.

jabrch
05-15-2004, 11:51 AM
:chickenlittle

Lip Man 1
05-15-2004, 01:12 PM
Just wanted to mention something I noticed last night while watching the WGN-TV sports.

Say what you want about the Tribune Company, Dan Roan and WGN but Rich King still seems to wear his Sox heart on his sleeve. As he was doing the highlights from the game you could aubibly hear the disgust in his voice when the Sox pissed it away. In fact during his voice over on Jones' single in the 8th inning he said 'and here we go again...'

Lip

Mickster
05-15-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
KW didn't acquire a leadoff hitter, either, but the team has been bailed out (through 34 games) by a stunning performance by Uribe and a good performance by Harris. I'm not about to give KW credit just yet, because Uribe will surely come back to Earth. Grade: Incomplete.

Uribe's "stunning performance" will certainly not last so long as Ozzie has Valentin batting in the 2 hole. Much of Juan's success can be squarely placed on the fact that he is batting in front of Maggs and Hurt. Uribe batting 7 or 8 WILL NOT be the same as Uribe batting 2.

What is up with Ozzie's love-fest with Valentin in the 2 hole???? :?:

BigFrankFan
05-15-2004, 01:25 PM
It's a fact that the Twinkies have had the best bullpen in the ALC 3 yrs in a row. It's a fact that they have the deepest farm system in generating bullpen players. It's a fact that their bullpen more so than any other facet of their team has led to their division titles.

That being said, the Chicago White Sox have one of the most expensive middle of the orders in the ALC. Roughly 35 million spent on Maggs, Thomas, Lee, Koney. Thomas is on base at least 2-3 times a game. Which means Lee & Koney just need a long double to accum an rbi.

Last night Thomas was on base in the late innings again. The rest did crap. Unless these 4 are going to be determined to succeed against the Twinkies bullpen we are destined for 2nd place & no post season again.

I do not fault Marte becuase the Twinks never quit. They score the late inning runs against EVERYBODY. I fault the money guys because they flat out stink! Thomas is the only exception. You can't force opposing teams to give you good pitches & when 1B is open with light weights behind him Frank is going to earn the free pass every time.

RKMeibalane
05-15-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by BigFrankFan
It's a fact that the Twinkies have had the best bullpen in the ALC 3 yrs in a row. It's a fact that they have the deepest farm system in generating bullpen players. It's a fact that their bullpen more so than any other facet of their team has led to their division titles.

That being said, the Chicago White Sox have one of the most expensive middle of the orders in the ALC. Roughly 35 million spent on Maggs, Thomas, Lee, Koney. Thomas is on base at least 2-3 times a game. Which means Lee & Koney just need a long double to accum an rbi.

Last night Thomas was on base in the late innings again. The rest did crap. Unless these 4 are going to be determined to succeed against the Twinkies bullpen we are destined for 2nd place & no post season again.

I do not fault Marte becuase the Twinks never quit. They score the late inning runs against EVERYBODY. I fault the money guys because they flat out stink! Thomas is the only exception. You can't force opposing teams to give you good pitches & when 1B is open with light weights behind him Frank is going to earn the free pass every time.

I agree. Frank is on pace to walk about 170 times this season. That's approaching Bonds territory. There's no way Frank will be able to get anything done if he doesn't see pitches in the strike zone. The guys behind him need to pick it up, because they're preventing Thomas from doing his full extent of damage offensively.

jeremyb1
05-15-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I agree. Frank is on pace to walk about 170 times this season. That's approaching Bonds territory. There's no way Frank will be able to get anything done if he doesn't see pitches in the strike zone. The guys behind him need to pick it up, because they're preventing Thomas from doing his full extent of damage offensively.

Getting on base is something if you have strong hitters behind him. I for one am not convinced Carlos will hit .240 and I doubt Paully will either.

mdep524
05-15-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by batmanZoSo
Good points, but they're not better than us. Better means more talented. Compared to them, the Sox are complete idiots. Even down to the manager it was just embarrasing how we got beat. They're ten times smarter than the Sox, but not better. If you think they have more talent, god help you.

No, its all about winning. "Better" means "more wins," so the Twins ARE better than the Sox, despite being significantly less talented.